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 Gunfire Reborn is a co-operative, run-based shooter. Oh, and you're a badass Chinese cartoon animal. With guns. Big guns. Action is fast, and the weapons feel great. The game world consists of four acts, each with its own level theme (tomb, desert, beach, and glacier), completely unique enemies, and terrifying end-boss. While gameplay is run-based, Gunfire uses a system similar to Rogue Legacy; as you play you'll gradually become more powerful. Throughout each run, you'll collect soul fragments that are used to improve your characters with Talents, which persist between runs. A full co-op play of the game, to the final boss, should take a bit over an hour at a leisurely pace. The game features five playable characters with full talent and ascension trees. The Heroes:  Crown Prince (the cat) "A myterious visitor from Spirit Realm who is proficient in alchemy and the elemental arts. With his alchemist expertise, the Crown Prince is able to trap and freeze the movement of his enemies with the Enerby Orb. His hidden background has made him even closer to the elements. He combines various elements skillfully to create extraordinary effects." Primary Skill: Energy Orb (fire an orb that causes small AOE damage and briefly locks enemies in place) Secondary Skill: Smoke Grenade (toss a grenade that explodes into a decay cloud, causing damage over time and slowing enemies) Crown Prince has a regenerating shield and ascensions that revolve around boosting damage output, especially elemental damage. He also has a bit of crowd-control with his orb and smoke grenades.  Ao Bai (the dog) "A master of explosions and firearms. Ao Bai's expertise with firearms allows him to control two weapons at the same time. Also, due to his passion for explosions, he has always been able to make powerful explosives." Primary Skill: Dual Wield (pulls out both weapons for several seconds, causing much greater damage) Secondary Skill: Explosive Grenade (tosses an explosive grenade that deals decent AOE damage) Ao Bai's ascensions have two main paths, enhancing his damage and survivability while dual-wielding, or boosting his explosive damage and radius. While Dual Wield allows for massive damage output, his shield is weaker than Crown Prince's, so he can be a bit of a glass cannon.  Qing Yan (the bird) "Qing Yan is a skilled martial artist who moves like the wind and is as elusive as shadows. Unlike others, Qing Yan has a dislike of alchemy and Shield and chooses instead to indulge in martial arts and Armor. With his martial art prowess, Qing Yan likes to leap into the fray to cleave enemies. That being said, he also likes the smoke and sound of shotguns." Primary Skill: Leap (fly/charge forward, dealing damage and recovering armor) Secondary Skill: Cleave (wedge-shaped AOE melee sword attack) Qing Yan's skills and ascensions are melee-focused, but he can still still rely on gunplay for high damage output. He does not have a shield, instead having natural armor. The armor only regenerates through certain attacks or skills, making survival a unique challenge.  Lei Luo (the... other cat) "Lei Luo, who is born with thunder tattoos, can easily manipulate lightning to hit enemies. Through continuous training, he can integrate his talents with firearm skills to make an amazing shot." Primary Skill: Fatal Current (speed and damage buff) Secondary Skill: Chain Lightning (zap!) Lei Luo has a focus on sniper-type weapons and has several ascensions related to critical hits.  Tao (the rabbit) "Tao, who is a master in the art of sword control, is keen to manipulate her royal flying sword to strike all foes. Meanwhile, she can condense her energy into petals, dealing hidden injuries against enemies with her Fatal Bloom." Primary Skill: Swords Out (throw a ridiculous stream of swords) Secondary Skill: Fatal Bloom (ranged damage plus vulnerability debuff) Tao's ascensions revolve around her flying swords, either increasing the number/damage of them during Swords Out, or making them appear and strike enemies during other situations. She also has several perks that will buff her based on ammo spent, meaning her ideal weapon is anything with a high ammo consumption rate.  Qian Sui (the turtle) "The valiant Qian Sui specializes in the art of close combat, traversing the battlefield while showing off his immense strength. Being associated with water, Qian Sui is capable of summoning a Tidal Aspis to block his enemies' fierce attacks while smashing any enemy daring to stand in his way." Primary Skill: Tidal Aspis (a duration-based shield that makes all attacks melee) Secondary Skill: Striking Punch (strong forward-facing melee punch) Qian Sui's shield makes him effectively invulnerable, and many of his talents focus on enhancing its duration and cooldown, or buffing him while/after it's up. He also has several melee-based upgrades to work with his punches, whether or not the shield is up. Systems: Weapons: Weapon drops have specific names with set behaviors, similar to Legendaries from Borderlands. For example, "Soul Devourer" is always an electricity-based auto-pistol with a regenerating magazine, but it can roll with different Inscriptions (see below) that can modify its capabilities. You can only hold two weapons at any time, plus your starter pistol, which you can't drop. Talents: Bought between runs with the soul fragments collected during battle, this is your character "skill tree". Add damage, gold pickup rate, max ammo, etc. Points spent in Talents persist between runs, so over time you become (much) more powerful. Ascensions: These are picked up at the end of each level, and boost your character for the current run only. They're class-specific and are designed to complement each character's abilities. Having the right Ascensions can make a huge difference in your character's power level, so choose carefully. Inscriptions: While each weapon has a set profile, each drop rolls "Inscriptions", that can drastically change its damage, element, projectile count, or fire rate -- or even add odd behaviors. Gemini Inscriptions: These start appearing around the third act, and if you have two weapons with the same Gemini inscription, they both gain an extremely powerful bonus or effect. Gameplay tips: - Health does not regenerate on its own, so if you take a hit or two, spend a few seconds hiding behind an object and let your shield recharge. Ideally, you want to reach the first boss without taking much (if any) health damage. - While you can run-and-gun the early levels, eventually the enemies do so much damage that you have to use cover, timing, and movement to avoid being hit. - Don't be precious about your early-game weapons. You can upgrade their raw numbers at the Craftsman, but they're stuck with their initial Inscription rolls. Rather than upgrading your starter-chest Glimmering until the end boss, keep an eye out for a better drop or purchase, even if it's not your preferred weapon. - In co-op games, you can drop most scrolls, and your friends can pick them up! Specifically, the one that makes buns restore 100% health -- pass this around to make healing much easier. From SaffronKit: - There are three base Element types (Shock, Corrosion, Fire) and each are strong against a certain type of health (Shield, Armor, Health). Elemental damage has a % chance based on weapon to apply a status effect. What makes this system unique? Status effects can combine! Shock + Corrosion: Blight (huge stacking DOT) Shock + Fire: Charm (makes enemies fight for you) Corrosion + Fire: Explosion (explodes for decent Explosion damage in AOE) - Always keep an eye out for Vaults. They're your main way of getting occult scrolls and learning where the cracks spawn and what they look like in each world is pretty important. - Also keep an eye out for Gold Chests, they can spawn tucked in corners and out of sight nooks and while not game winningly amazing can absolutely help you along in a run you're struggling in. Gold Chests have a variety of options that they can offer to you ranging from the very useful, niche or useless depending on what you need at the time! Goon Co-Op  Gunfire Goons is a Steam group where you can arrange co-op games with goons! WhiteHowler fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Aug 21, 2020 20:48
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The game is already a steal at $11.99 on Steam, but for the next week it's 10% off at $10.79.
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Aug 21, 2020 21:06
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I do not enjoy Ziggurat and Immortal Redneck but I do enjoy this game, the fact that its co-op is just icing on the cake. The shooting reminds me of Overwatch kinda, which is a good thing. My main "complaint" is that enemy health gets scaled up once you add some players to it, so in some ways having 4 people makes the game harder. So if you're trying to play this with 4 people and one of your team is bad at the game, they will be feeling it. The health scaling definitely makes it feel way different playing solo or even just as a duo. As a result, duo feels like just the right amount of difficulty.
SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Aug 22, 2020 |
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Aug 22, 2020 23:34
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I do not enjoy Ziggurat and Immortal Redneck but I do enjoy this game, the fact that its co-op is just icing on the cake. The shooting reminds me of Overwatch kinda, which is a good thing. While I'd love to have a talent or option to skip the Temple (or randomize the level order, scaling enemies to match), the guns and abilities feel good enough that the game is still fun, even when mowing down crossbowmen for the 50th time. I randomly picked this up during a run yesterday:  I'm not usually a Bone Dragon fan, but this one shoots two projectiles normally, and can fire up to four on subsequent shots. I also had the "first shot from the magazine does +50% damage" scroll. Between massive AOE damage and the crowd control from the black hole effect, it made the second half of Act 2 and all of Act 3 a cakewalk, paired with a decent Crimson Firescale.
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Aug 22, 2020 23:40
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Hey sure I can contribute to a thread on my favorite FPS roguelite game right now. Kung Fu Birb is best hero, you won't change my mind. To add to the tips in OP There are three base Element types (Shock, Corrosion, Fire) and each are strong against a certain type of health (Shield, Armor, Health). Elemental damage has a % chance based on weapon to apply a status effect. What makes this system unique? Status effects can combine! Shock + Corrosion: Blight (huge stacking DOT) Shock + Fire: Charm (makes enemies fight for you) Corrosion + Fire: Explosion (explodes for decent Explosion damage in AOE) Charm (Confusion?) is the one I'd argue as the weakest but they're all still generally useful. Another tip I'd throw out is always keep an eye out for Vaults. They're your main way of getting occult scrolls and learning where the cracks spawn and what they look like in each world is pretty important. Also keep an eye out for Gold Chests, they can spawn tucked in corners and out of sight nooks and while not game winningly amazing can absolutely help you along in a run you're struggling in. Gold Chests have a variety of options that they can offer to you ranging from the very useful, niche or useless depending on what you need at the time! And that's it! A lot of the fun in this game is figuring out stuff on your own and frankly it ain't too hard. My two favorite runs that I've had date included an Ao Bai run where I became actually unkillable. The other was with Qing Yan the day he released where I got a Cleave build which let me kill my way through the final world without every firing a single shot of my gun, just one shooting everything. Yes, even the final boss. For those familiar with him it actually took about 7ish cleave hits due to figuring out the range finding and dealing with the invincibility phases. Was still laughing my rear end off the entire time.
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Aug 23, 2020 06:50
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SaffronKit posted:Hey sure I can contribute to a thread on my favorite FPS roguelite game right now. Kung Fu Birb is best hero, you won't change my mind. For solo runs, though, he's amazing. I've reached the final boss the first two out of three times I played him. quote:To add to the tips in OP My group definitely doesn't coordinate elemental effects enough. We all have our own favorite weapons, and for whatever reason it usually turns out that most or all of us went full Fire. Oops. I'd argue that Charm is still pretty great. We've definitely locked down some nasty enemies with it, especially some of the nightmare jerks in the third act. Explosion is fun too, it's always a happy surprise when you start shooting an enemy and it suddenly explodes. quote:And that's it! A lot of the fun in this game is figuring out stuff on your own and frankly it ain't too hard. My two favorite runs that I've had date included an Ao Bai run where I became actually unkillable. The other was with Qing Yan the day he released where I got a Cleave build which let me kill my way through the final world without every firing a single shot of my gun, just one shooting everything. Yes, even the final boss. For those familiar with him it actually took about 7ish cleave hits due to figuring out the range finding and dealing with the invincibility phases. Was still laughing my rear end off the entire time.
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Aug 23, 2020 15:26
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WhiteHowler posted:I haven't done anything that broken yet. Actually, I haven't beaten the final boss yet, though I've gotten there a few times. I usually play with 3-4 people, so boss health is crazy high, and we die a lot figuring out the mechanics. I play primarily solo since the friends I got into the game with didn't get as hooked as I did but from my Co-op games it def feels way harder when others don't pull their weight. That said the struggle with the final boss is real since you have to learn how the phases work and what to look out for. Especially since it takes so long to get there you and you won't make it nearly as often as you'd like. I do think the first and second bosses do a good job of reinforcing you should be bringing an appropriate elemental weapon to deal with their shield/armor and the massive pool of health.
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Aug 23, 2020 17:06
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I picked this up a few days ago but hadn't had a chance to sit down with it yet, looks cool minus the furries of course, kinda reminds me of Dungeon Defenders from back in the day that also had a goon presence, I tend to play things mostly solo nowadays and in short bursts, but if there's "grouping" in this game, I wouldn't mind doing something with some goons, add me if you want someone to slow down your runs, cause you to die/fail runs, god tier old man boomer reflexes, etc. Profile Link
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Aug 23, 2020 17:57
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Game is great! Excited to try out the new character. There are definitely some scrolls which seem to lead to broken runs more often than others (eg penetration shot + hawkeye + anything else). The last 2-3 times we've made it to the final boss on elite as a duo it has been with weapon combos which just completely dumpster everything. I feel like Elite difficulty really hits the right level of challenge/reward for me -- it makes even hallway fights somewhat challenging, and makes it so much easier to get crazy combos going.
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Aug 24, 2020 00:25
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WhiteHowler posted:While I'd love to have a talent or option to skip the Temple (or randomize the level order, scaling enemies to match), the guns and abilities feel good enough that the game is still fun, even when mowing down crossbowmen for the 50th time. Absolutely agreed on this, I've played like 40 hours and have still enjoyed it (especially on Elite mode) but it does get a bit repetitive on normal - you start to see a lot of the same templates for various rooms after a certain point. I think randomizing the order at least would help, but mostly this seems like something just more content will solve (and I mean, a solid 40 hours in early access is pretty great). I do feel like the stages on Elite mode feel more interesting, they add a lot of traps and whatnot that make the levels more engaging even after having done them a bunch of times. I think one thing the game does really well is letting you get absurd builds - stacking elemental damage and then getting a late game synergistic weapon up to 10 just smashes through even elite mode. The inscriptions, particularly once you unlock the exclusive ones, can make the weapons feel v different as do the scrolls. I don't know that this is necessarily a bad thing, but it does feel like the cursed scrolls aren't really much of a factor - most runs I get one or none, even when I choose a lot of the % chance of getting one. The variety also doesn't increase as the you unlock normal scrolls. Just less of a consideration than a pot of other equivalent things in other rogue lites. All in all though this is definitely already my favorite fps roguelite, and the co-op is really well executed. For people just starting up, learning the boss attack patterns makes them a lot easier, and they're generally not that tough to dodge once you know them. Initially though it can be kind of brutal.
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Aug 24, 2020 01:04
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RIP ZEEZ
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Out of curiosity, what are peoples' favorite weapons? I know weapon choice will vary based on the inscriptions that drop, but what are your go-to weapons if they're available with good rolls? I'm a big fan of the Illusion, and will basically always take one that drops with elemental damage. For fire weapons, Glimmering is still extremely powerful, even post-nerf. And the Crimson Firescale feels so good to shoot, with a really satisfying secondary mode. For electric, I like the changes they made to Lightning Blast, upping its rate of fire and damage a bit. The projectiles are a little slow for long-range combat, but it's great closer in. The Lightning Glove and Star Devourer both seem great through the first boss, and then fall off on damage. I've never found either in the later game that seems worth keeping. And for Decay, I just don't have a weapon I love yet. The Prism is decent, but I don't care for any of the others I've seen yet. Looking through the armory, I think there are still like 8-10 guns I haven't unlocked yet, mostly from act 3.
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Aug 24, 2020 01:41
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Craziest dps build I ever had was on Dog. Two glimmerings, each procing 2 additional shots per shot. Max mad bomber, max dual lucky, immunity to fire, lifesteal from fire, and infinite ammo during dual. Bunch of damage scrolls too. Nothing even comes close to the damage output. With lifesteal and such the only thing you have to worry about are those little suicidal fire bomb guys as they can oneshot you and making sure you kill everything during your dual. 2 million + damage over the run. Having two of the same gun on Dog sounds weird but its far less mentally taxing when both guns have the same fire rate. Ammo is your biggest concern. Also dog is limited in what guns he can use. The only stat he really cares about is explosion which limits the guns you can use. Cat you can really build whatever though lightning and shield seem to work best on him. Lightning glove is great. I tried the bird but man he's weird as hell. Its like you either go all in on his abilities or have them kinda sorta support your gun. Very strange character. Game is amazing and I just want more of it. Really wish they added in a hell level where you can't win to see how far your build can take you.
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Aug 24, 2020 02:29
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To elaborate on my previously mentioned busted Ao Bai (the dog, for those too lazy to remember names) immortal build I had Gold Medal (regenerate 15% of max shield/armor on dash) + Propulsion Device (+2 dash charges) + Advanced Joggers (50% faster dash cooldown) + Spirit Felyne (+100% damage taken, never able to take more than 14% of your health in one hit). That's the math of immortality in a video game right there. Had some pretty good weapons too. My favorite weapon hands down is Slappy (also known as Justice). A remote detonated grenade launcher? And it's a tiny angry lizard you slap to reload? Yes. Yes please. I also really dig Prism, I was kind of wary of the kunai weapons at first but they quickly became a favorite as well. As much as I usually like shotguns I've been hellishly underwhelmed by every shotgun in this game except Sunder. Thankfully they have gotten some buffs so I'll need to try Illusion more at some point. I do find all the weapons in this game are relatively satisfying to use as well as all having their uses and good gun feel which is pretty great!
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Aug 24, 2020 02:47
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Just binged on this game for 3.9 hours, games okay I guess.
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Aug 24, 2020 05:27
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The bird dude is great! I’m very bad at him still, but I love that they made a character with such a different playstyle. WhiteHowler posted:Out of curiosity, what are peoples' favorite weapons? I really like the glimmering with extra projectiles, it’s just so satisfying. Probably the most broken combo I’ve gotten has been the laser glove with penetration shot/hawkeye/elemental ascensions/the extra damage per hit in last few seconds scroll. It just deletes stuff so quickly. But not actually that fun of a gun for me, kind of prefer the ones with slower rof (although ones like the scalpel can feel so rewarding when you control recoil well). I gotta say that I really don’t get the shotguns - they seem too weak to do very much. Same with piercing flame - it just seems so weak stats wise and handles annoyingly.
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Aug 24, 2020 06:19
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I have my eye put on this game, it's on my wishlist, but I'm one to wait until games are out of EA , or at least 'almost out of EA', like Hades.
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Aug 24, 2020 08:25
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Im_Special posted:Just binged on this game for 3.9 hours, games okay I guess. When you unlock the game for Elite is when it really starts to shine. One of the downsides is that the game dripfeeds you all the cool scrolls and upgrades a bit too slowly. Like the dog took forever to unlock for no reason.
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Aug 24, 2020 09:06
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The game is really good but I'm super mad that the throwing knives aren't hold-to-fire. I love using them but playing a couple runs with them fucks up my hand really quick with all the spam clicking.
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Aug 24, 2020 10:12
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Kanos posted:The game is really good but I'm super mad that the throwing knives aren't hold-to-fire. I love using them but playing a couple runs with them fucks up my hand really quick with all the spam clicking. Submit a bug report or something. This is an accessibility issue that perhaps the Dev hasn't considered.
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Aug 24, 2020 12:50
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I made a Steam group for us to all join to get co-ops going easier. Gunfire Goons. Steam's not letting me upload up an image for it right now, says invalid token or whatever, I'll try again a bit later.
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Aug 24, 2020 17:52
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Im_Special posted:I made a Steam group for us to all join to get co-ops going easier. Gunfire Goons. Steam's not letting me upload up an image for it right now, says invalid token or whatever, I'll try again a bit later.
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Aug 24, 2020 18:58
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Im_Special posted:I made a Steam group for us to all join to get co-ops going easier. Gunfire Goons. Steam's not letting me upload up an image for it right now, says invalid token or whatever, I'll try again a bit later. Sent request to join as Evil Kit! In terms of discords there is a Co-op Goons discord already that covers a bunch of different games, not sure how many people are already in there.
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Aug 24, 2020 20:56
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Image uploaded! I'm not really good with shopping. (I let my wife do that...) But I did these anyway. All I did was do this  Made a bad S  Then covered it up with something :P  If anyone's better at this or got suggestions let me know.
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Aug 24, 2020 21:54
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Im_Special posted:Then covered it up with something :P My boy Slappy.  I approve this image.
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Aug 24, 2020 22:07
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Yeah, I was going to originally use it for a "fire girl meme" in the bottom corner, but then bad S happened. Glad you like it.
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Aug 24, 2020 22:12
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Im_Special posted:Yeah, I was going to originally use it for a "fire girl meme" in the bottom corner, but then bad S happened. Glad you like it. I was not familiar with the fire girl meme till I just googled it but drat if Slappy isn't perfect for that.
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Aug 25, 2020 01:16
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Also fun fact, kung fu Birb is totally immune to damage while Leaping. Source: me jumping through various traps and enemy fire while taking 0 damage. He'll be the easiest hero to get the "Take no damage in a Trap Room" achievement if you care about those.
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Aug 25, 2020 01:54
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So what's the best way to farm talents, is it just to push as far as you can on the hardest difficultly you can? Is elite difficultly the "sweet spot" for time vs. reward here, or is it better to rush normal for quicker games. What's the most Soul Essence one can get from a typical run? Is 300-ish kinda the norm?
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Aug 26, 2020 00:16
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Im_Special posted:So what's the best way to farm talents, is it just to push as far as you can on the hardest difficultly you can? Is elite difficultly the "sweet spot" for time vs. reward here, or is it better to rush normal for quicker games. Elite is best because consistently getting through tomb and desert + leveling the "Bosses drop extra souls" talent will easy get you to 400 ish. Hell just tomb on elite and killing Lu Wu consistently will let you stock pile almost 200 at a time. I'm about 45+ hours in and soon the only thing I'll be using souls for is reviving in a run if I care.
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Aug 26, 2020 05:42
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SaffronKit posted:Also fun fact, kung fu Birb is totally immune to damage while Leaping. Source: me jumping through various traps and enemy fire while taking 0 damage. He'll be the easiest hero to get the "Take no damage in a Trap Room" achievement if you care about those. This is great. I need to get more comfortable with his abilities and figure out the right ascensions to be taking, his abilities are so much fun.
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Aug 26, 2020 09:18
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tildes posted:This is great. I need to get more comfortable with his abilities and figure out the right ascensions to be taking, his abilities are so much fun. Alright after some testing I think Birb might just be immune to trap and enironmental damage while jumping and not enemy fire. Needs more actual experiments I will do at some point. Still very powerful and ensures Birb trivializes all parkour and trap vaults even further. That should I would love to talk about bird! 1. Always Be Leaping. Sounds like extremely basic advice but it's pretty much the most important part of playing him. Even leaping on just one enemy will give you armor back which is what keeps you alive and going! Pro tip: Using Leap to destroy an object gives you armor. Out of enemies and need to top off? Find a pot or box and Leap on it. You're welcome. 2. Always Be Cleaving. Cleave is an easy and fast way to finish off enemies while you're reloading as it doesn't interrupt the animation, nor does it stop you from continuing to fire your gun (I still struggle with the latter). I love Cleave builds. I think they're stronger and more fun and Leap builds, especially if you get the Easy Kill ascension super early. Defensive Cleave is also hands down the best ascension for Qing Yan in the game, another way to get more armor is hella important for staying alive. I'll get into more specific builds late but suffice to say Qing Yan is my favorite hero cause he is the MOST in get stuck in with enemies that can also get away with it.
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Aug 26, 2020 18:01
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I finally beat the final boss. I was using Qing Yan, but the available ascensions weren't great for melee offense, so I kept boosting his leap recovery (armor and cooldown). I found an amazing Scalpel after the first boss, with tons of crit damage, plus the inscription that adds a stacking crit bonus after landing 4 crits in a second - which is so easy to do with the Scalpel. I think it was +6 or +7 by the end. Then I picked up the "punch through shields/armor on crit" scroll, and it was mostly a cakewalk from there. The only enemies I had trouble with were ones with a small crit area - mainly Octopus and those charging jerks in act 2. Final boss was a pushover since it was so easy to crit, and I could instantly recover my armor whenever I took a hit. I'm looking forward to using the new stuff I unlocked, though I don't think I'm quite ready for Elite yet.
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Aug 27, 2020 12:04
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Applied to the steam group, steamname is Yog-Sothoth
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Aug 27, 2020 14:09
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WhiteHowler posted:I finally beat the final boss. I'd at least try a single run of Elite! The extra rewards can actually end up making it not that much harder than normal.
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Aug 27, 2020 17:56
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SaffronKit posted:Alright after some testing I think Birb might just be immune to trap and enironmental damage while jumping and not enemy fire. Needs more actual experiments I will do at some point. Still very powerful and ensures Birb trivializes all parkour and trap vaults even further. Honestly, after winning a bunch with Bird Akuma on Elite, I find Cleave to be mediocre to bad as a focus. The problem mostly lies in scarcity - even with massive focus on cleave, in the two later areas you're going to need to cleave multiple times to wipe out a lot of enemies(this gets more problematic on multiplayer), and if drops don't favor you you will run out of cleaves - and then you're kind of in a pickle, because your ascensions are doing nothing. I recently had a 3 player multiplayer win where I got Easy Kill as my first ascension and focused on farming the bejesus out of it for the entire run(ended up at like +800 cleave damage from Easy Kill) and put every single ascension except 3 into cleave(the remainder were in hail of bullets and within reach, the latter of which buffs cleave anyway), and I still spent most of the Fjord unable to really cleave due to running out constantly. Unless RNG gives you the "get +3 cleaves when you kill someone with cleave", it's not sustainable, and I've only ever managed to get that ascension one time across all of my games. My take on the most powerful birdo ascensions are anything that makes Leap generate more armor(Regen Hit is extremely strong)/reduces Leap's cooldown, Hail of Bullets, and Within Reach. Within Reach is a ludicrously powerful damage bonus that requires nothing other than "be close to enemies" and Hail of Bullets makes weapons like Tiger Cannon, Bone Dragon, and Wild Hunt ludicrously broken doom cannons because they were never balanced around you firing half a dozen shots with a massive damage bonus every reload. Kanos fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Aug 27, 2020 |
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Aug 27, 2020 23:29
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Yeah I tried to make cleave work and it just doesn’t feel like it scales. Even with 1000 extra damage from the ascension it just didn’t feel relevant by late game since I didn’t have any way to generate more feathers easily. Leap seems so good though, you just end up so mobile and with so much healing. Especially with paranormality it’s crazy.
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Aug 28, 2020 07:24
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tildes posted:Yeah I tried to make cleave work and it just doesn’t feel like it scales. Even with 1000 extra damage from the ascension it just didn’t feel relevant by late game since I didn’t have any way to generate more feathers easily. Leap seems so good though, you just end up so mobile and with so much healing. Especially with paranormality it’s crazy. after playing some more co-op finally (I primarily play solo)- I have to agree. I still think Cleave is way more fun but it is far more viable solo than it is in multi for the simple fact of enemy HP scaling. My main succcess from Cleave builds usually stems from early Easy Kill and a good mix of Absolute Advantage and Fierce Wing to help keep ones shotting enemies all the way through. I believe Easy Kill by itself is great for helping execute bosses but overall Leap builds are kinda just better. Defensive Cleave I still 100% an ascension that should be picked up if seen imo because it makes you infinitely more tanky and sustains you through your Leap CD early on but Cleave focus is not that great in multi.
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Aug 28, 2020 07:55
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They could easily make cleave a really good build if they included more ways to regenerate it - the damage is fine for an instant cast aoe ability, even if it's not one shotting things, the problem is just running out. Maybe tacking on a "regenerate 1 cleave if you hit 4/3/2 opponents" to an existing mastery?
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Aug 28, 2020 14:27
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Kanos posted:They could easily make cleave a really good build if they included more ways to regenerate it - the damage is fine for an instant cast aoe ability, even if it's not one shotting things, the problem is just running out. Maybe tacking on a "regenerate 1 cleave if you hit 4/3/2 opponents" to an existing mastery? I agree, but rather than simply slap another fix via use of Ascensions, I'd much prefer a way to get more control over what Ascensions you can acquire in a run. Personal ideas are things like Golden Chests that offer you to get a choice of 3 Ascensions from a particular tree for the price of a Cursed scroll. Cursed Scrolls as is are such a non-factor it's pretty drat easy to avoid taking them at all. The most likely way to get a Cursed Scroll at the moment is taking the Golden Chest option that gives you one as well as a free Occult Scroll and it's just like... sure, I'll take this sure fire bad scroll for a potentially totally useless Occult Scroll to my build. Unless you're rocking Evil Banishing Talisman, then they're a total non-factor. Evil Devouring Sword is even more useless because +10% damage per Cursed Scroll is so anemic, especially since the consequences of taking Cursed Scrolls are so much heavier.
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Aug 28, 2020 21:22
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It seems like the biggest issue is that a level 3 ascension wing required to make cleave viable means that it just isn’t, and that sort of needs to get fixed first imo. I guess it’s somewhat similar to issues with grenade builds, but I’ve never actually tried to do a grenade build with either of the other two characters so idk how that would feel. More ascension control would also be helpful though, it seems like it would make it easier to balance ascensions. I wouldn’t want it to get to the point where your build isn’t being dictated at least somewhat by the rng (eg where you can force the same build every time), but it seems like there should be a good balance that could be found.
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Aug 28, 2020 22:17
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