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Im_Special posted:That new Scroll sure is an interesting one. It's a bad curse if you have semi automatic weapons, but with a minigun or something like that, it's just a 15% damage decrease, which yeah it's bad, but it rarely will break the run. The Elemental Curse scroll is worse, yep. Or it was, I think it was changed in April?
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Jun 18, 2021 18:25
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I have primarily played the game solo and the big thing is learning the big enemy threats (to eliminate them first) and to just always keep moving. With enough points sunk in the talent tree solo Elite is pretty much in the bag if you know what you're doing, barring getting totally screwed both Ascension and Occult Scroll wise. It also lets you pause the game which is super handy if you have to stop periodically. Having had a night's sleep and gotten to do a run with Tao, hot drat is she fun. She really is the ability hero, and it's a blast just exploding enemies with sakura petals and swords. Bunny is now up there with Bird for the sheer amount of fun you can have with just your abilities. I also like that we've got a hero focused on big fat magazines and loads of bullets. Combined with my new favorite talent Battlefield Support (shoot X amount of Y ammo type, gain back 1 secondary skill use) , you can literally never run out of secondary skill uses with Bunny. Especially if you find a weapon with the Missed Shots Refund Ammo, you can literally just hold down the trigger on a full auto weapon and get all your secondary skill ammo back. edit: also this is kinda an old change but Ostrich Rider is now a must take since it only increases Dash cd by 300% instead of removing it. 50% faster at all times is my jam.
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Jun 18, 2021 18:32
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Yeah they changed it from "0% chance to inflict elements" to "Exponentially decrease the chance". Which still sounds pretty dire but at least your elemental stuff isn't completely useless anymore. Broken Gun is admittedly still one of the worst cursed scrolls, alongside Broken Bullet (-20% damage to Shields/Armor) and Cateye Sight (-1 CritX). I feel like most of the other ones aren't too notable, given that they tend to reduce ammo or make things more expensive, so as long as you're not already having ammo/money problems you'll be fine. Shout-out to Old Battle Boots though, the double trap damage can be worked around if you're careful but -10% movement speed sucks no matter what.
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Jun 18, 2021 18:33
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Arzaac posted:Yeah they changed it from "0% chance to inflict elements" to "Exponentially decrease the chance". Which still sounds pretty dire but at least your elemental stuff isn't completely useless anymore. To me, it sounds as if the effect is now more complicated. Maybe it's something like a shot has a decent chance of still do elemental damage, even with the curse, but if does it, the second shot have 90% chance of not doing it, the third shot 99% of not being elemental, etc. That would be the exponential decrease. If the effect would be flat (like 1% chance to inflict elemental dmg', they wouldn't explain with those words.
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Jun 18, 2021 18:57
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The game is a lot easier in multiplayer because the group gets x2/x3/x4 weapon drops so if you’re playing different characters you’re much more likely to get things that are good for your build, as well as giving scrolls to the player who can make the best use of them
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Jun 18, 2021 19:41
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Evil Kit posted:
She is fun, and she is surprisingly... straightforward. I say that comparing her with the previous new character, Lei Luo, who had more complicated main skill (that works in two phases, with different effects) and more complicated ascensions in how they play with each other, in fact some of his ascensions were basically a third skill in addition to the primary and secondary skill. On the other hand, there isn't a lot to discuss looking at her ascensions. Most of them are more damage, be direct or indirect, with a few exceptions (DR while using the primary, or recover shield, or more CC for the secondary). The only thing that I noticed is, Tao have some ascensions with three tiers where the third tier isn't as worth as with the other characters (where usually there is a bigger jump in damage or an additional effect). Examples are Sword Shadow, Warlike Blade and Epic Swordcraft. In one case, Blade of Doom  the third tier provided a smaller gain than the previous two, even, and no extra effect.
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Jun 18, 2021 21:19
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I've done some Reincarnation difficulty runs and the Phantom Peddler and Spiritual dude both have nuts options. It's very much the difficulty for when you've maxed out your talent tree and can spend souls willy nilly. The Peddler sells Enhanced occult scrolls that have some pretty insane effects, and the other dude lets you buy perm buffs like Double Damage secondary skills  Turin Turambar posted:
That is because Blade of Bloom is extremely nuts and would honestly be busted if the third level gave extra benefit. Having played a bunch more of her there's a few builds where you don't use your primary skill unless you have a real big baddy to kill, and can just spam secondary with Blade of Bloom ascension to murder literally everything else. The Mainstay Weapon ascension tree actually has some strong stuff in it, the "gain 2 shield per sword shot, also recover 2 shield" is a really powerful defensive tool. On top of that just have 30% larger mags and faster reloads really unlocks some of the automatic weapons, very fun character. Her gameplay loop is fun enough you don't have to do anything crazy with ascensions.
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Jun 18, 2021 22:32
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I really wish there was a longer mode. But the time I get to the end boss I feel like I've barely been able to make any of the skill scroll combos work.
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Jun 18, 2021 22:35
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According to their roadmap, they're planning on adding a 4th area and final boss. So your wish should come soon in the near future.
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Jun 18, 2021 22:43
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Arzaac posted:According to their roadmap, they're planning on adding a 4th area and final boss. So your wish should come soon in the near future. I kinda fear how broken everything will be by the fourth area, lol At that point you can get a very OP built. In fact in the latter levels of Fjord I usually delete most enemies super fast (well, they also can kill me fast so I guess it's balanced).
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Jun 18, 2021 23:11
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Been playing around for a bit, beat Normal not too long ago and was around level 70 or so when the update hit and wiped all my points. I also did not save 400 to unlock rabbit  I've tried to start a multiplayer run a few times, but matchmaking never came back with anything before I got bored and just go solo again. Looking through the controls, is there a text chat option somewhere or is multi all voice? ProTip: Don't pick up the scroll that doubles your shield/armor but sets your HP to 1, then the scroll that turns all your shield/armor to HP but gives you 2%/sec HP regen. Turns out this will just wipe your shield/armor and leave you with 1 HP  Run didn't get much further after that.
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Jun 18, 2021 23:11
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Takes No Damage posted:Been playing around for a bit, beat Normal not too long ago and was around level 70 or so when the update hit and wiped all my points. I also did not save 400 to unlock rabbit Enter is text chat.
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Jun 18, 2021 23:13
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Takes No Damage posted:ProTip: Don't pick up the scroll that doubles your shield/armor but sets your HP to 1, then the scroll that turns all your shield/armor to HP but gives you 2%/sec HP regen. Turns out this will just wipe your shield/armor and leave you with 1 HP You can drop most scrolls from your inventory to fix things like this Unrelated: can someone explain the use case or the Airbag scroll to me? it seems really bad.
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Jun 18, 2021 23:52
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Airbag by itself has a minor benefit; because it restores 100% HP when your armor breaks, you're effectively always at full health. Past that, it's got synergies with things like Persistent and Berserk Soul, because they give you boosts the lower your health is.
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Jun 19, 2021 00:03
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I enjoy the new difficulties since Nightmare was getting too easy, but I'm not sure what the actual incentive for completing them is. Just for the fun of it? Seems like you're more likely to burn through your essence than actually gain any.
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Jun 19, 2021 00:08
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Gay Rat Wedding posted:You can drop most scrolls from your inventory to fix things like this I keep forgetting I can do that, not used to 'rogue-lite-likes' being that forgiving. Even when I remember I usually won't do it because it feels cheaty, probably why I still have yet to clear act 2 in Elite. Must be pretty useful in multi where the whole team can swap complimentary scrolls with each other.
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Jun 19, 2021 00:20
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Arzaac posted:Airbag by itself has a minor benefit; because it restores 100% HP when your armor breaks, you're effectively always at full health. can damage from the attack that drops your shield to 0 overflow to your health or is there a shield gate?
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Jun 19, 2021 00:28
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Gay Rat Wedding posted:can damage from the attack that drops your shield to 0 overflow to your health or is there a shield gate? If I'm reading the wiki right, overflow damage is negated while you have Airbag. You physically cannot die from your shield breaking while you have Airbag.
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Jun 19, 2021 00:29
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Oh yeah one of my favorite things they changed in the patch is weapon reloads seem faster in general, and they're a little more generous with when you are considered 'reloaded'. Before some weapons had a few seconds of animation, then there would be a final cocking or racking before your ammo count actually changed (looking at you Wild Hunt). I was forever switching weapons a few frames before this and would then lose the entire clip and have to reload again 
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Jun 19, 2021 01:19
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Am I misunderstanding something about weapon recycling, or is it kind of tedious? It's enough credits to be worth doing, but it's not enough that it feels rewarding to spend the time mulching everything (and coordinating with everyone in multiplayer about who wants what and who needs the credits). If it just auto-recycled weapons when you left the stage, I wouldn't mind, but having to manually recycle everything feels like a drag.
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Jun 19, 2021 06:48
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Nah I feel ya, it kinda sucks. It would also be easier if it was just a quick button press instead of like, the long hold you have to do.
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Jun 19, 2021 06:57
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thought: will right clicking a single time with advanced depot + aura of venom make it uncontrollably fire away all your ammo? https://i.imgur.com/jgXUvCi.mp4 answer: yes, and that owns First impressions after one game: the new character's visual design sucks. this is supposed to be the first female hero in the game so they had to give her pink hearts, big rabbit tits and a weirdly human face which doesn't match the design of the other characters. this is disappointing. however she is absolutely great to play and could become my favorite character. I've noticed that the devs have built each new character around weapons that the other characters don't cover much, as the snipers were very niche before lei luo, and many of the rapidfire guns were very situational before tao. this is a good direction and the number of interesting weapons to see is a lot larger now. I finished the game maining a big hippo, which I've never done before. They really need to redesign the bosses in general if they want to keep adding melee weapons though.
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Jun 19, 2021 07:51
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Don't forget the little giggles or whatever the audio lines are supposed to be. I finally had to turn off character voices in my first run with her despite liking leaving it on for Dog. Hate everything about her design.
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Jun 19, 2021 14:05
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Yeah her visual design is trash but definitely fun to play
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Jun 19, 2021 14:12
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I just had another great run. Game is f-u-n, nailing both the FPS (good weapon feel, good sounds, varied enemies, emphasis on projectiles that can be avoided) and the roguelite aspect (many builds which can be done with scrolls and ascensions and weapon affixes). About metaprogression, I noticed that not only you gain more essence in coop, looking at the raw numbers I thought it was around 30% more, however, because a decent team can do a run 10-15 minutes faster than in solo, the real adjusted number is closer to 45-50%? So the grind isn't as bad as it seems at first, provided you play in coop. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jun 19, 2021 |
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Jun 19, 2021 17:30
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I'm curious, what are your average run times solo vs co-op? Some of my slow times in solo are generally from needing to just pause and go take care of something, but I'd say a run through elite/nightmare is probably 35ish minutes tops, with it taking less time depending on how busted my build is.
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Jun 19, 2021 18:04
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How is the weapon balance gone at this point?
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Jun 19, 2021 18:30
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Honestly really good. Each hero has preferred weapon types so you'll want to actually try out the different weapons instead of same old same old stuff every run. It's still pretty important to get good Inscriptions but now you can at least add a Gemini inscription to a really good weapon you find at the weapon smith. Also certain talents enhance different facets of each weapon type that isn't just more damage, making them more usable overall. Some weapon types got it a bit better than others but overall it's all pretty good stuff. Weapons are def in the best place they've ever been in.
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Jun 19, 2021 18:42
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I tried the bunny for the first time this morning, and she's a lot of fun. I haven't played in a while, so I don't know how many balance changes have happened recently, but it seemed like I had a much easier time getting through late act 1 and act 2. I had just started act 3 when my power went out (thanks Claudette!). Has anyone noticed that the game is a little easier lately on normal difficulty?
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Jun 19, 2021 19:17
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I would not be surprised if Normal is now much easier thanks to the talent tree changes, especially with the +weapon damage talent being on the first tier now. I don't actually play Normal myself however so I couldn't be able to tell you if it was actually easier.
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Jun 19, 2021 19:29
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Evil Kit posted:I'm curious, what are your average run times solo vs co-op? Some of my slow times in solo are generally from needing to just pause and go take care of something, but I'd say a run through elite/nightmare is probably 35ish minutes tops, with it taking less time depending on how busted my build is. Oh, I'm much slower than you. I think I need 60-65 minutes. That's without pausing. Maybe it's because I'm a completionist so my default play style is to search every room after combat in case I missed a chest or a vault entry, and of course I do all the vaults, and break most of the breakable stuff if I'm wounded (sometimes they give health). Or maybe is because I still don't have all the talents, nor the general ones nor the hero ones (and I can see the last ones for each are pretty good). Or maybe I'm just not as good as you lol. Whatever the reason, in the second and third areas there are points where there is little cover, I'm hurt, and I have to wait until I recover shield, and play slower in general. And I need time to read the description of the scrolls, I still don't know them by memory and need to think in their synergies too. How many hours have you played the game? What level are you? I'm seeing the Steam achievements, and almost 50% have beaten the game (49,6% have beaten the boat). But only 2,9%% have needed 30 minutes or less, at any difficulty, so I'm inclined to think most people need more time.
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Jun 19, 2021 19:43
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They are doing a good job with the melee weapons, the previous one got a buff, and they two new ones are good. The Fire Tower hits like a truck, but the sustained DPS isn't that good, so it's a bit like the rocket launcher type of thing, but in melee. And the venom katana that can self-upgrade is cool. I like how, apart from their own unique features, each weapon uses ammo in a different way: Flowing Light only uses it with the special skill, the venom Katana doesn't use it on the first two strikes but consumes three on the third (and it's more powerful strike), and the Fire Tower consumes 1 of special ammo for every swing. I think it's very probable they will add a pair more of melee weapon and make the last character to favor melee, the same way Bunny favors automatic weapons, Dog favors explosives, Bird shotguns and Tiger sniper rifles. edit: some of the challenges can gently caress off. I have to kill 60 Arrogant Lobsters for a smg, WTF. They are one of the most rare (non-elite) enemies! Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jun 19, 2021 |
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Jun 19, 2021 19:50
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It would be pretty cool if they added a melee character, though IMO melee weapons work wonderfully with Qing Yan. There's a grand total of 1 ascension he has that doesn't work with melee. Arguably you could do pretty well with Lei Luo in melee, because his primary does scale very well with slow, single hit weapons like the Fire Tower. Though the lack of defensive skills makes him a bit more shaky there.
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Jun 19, 2021 19:59
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Turin Turambar posted:Oh, I'm much slower than you. I think I need 60-65 minutes. That's without pausing. I've got 112 hours clocked in as of a few runs today, and had all the talents filled out before the update and pretty much every important talent and most hero talents after the update. I will say I have a knack for memorizing occult scrolls, most of it boils down to feelings about them and synergies I've encountered/thought of already so I have a pretty good idea at a glance of what I want/need when I see any particular scroll. As for weapons, only certain inscriptions are really worth it for the majority of weapons and I'm a fast reader so I can skim a weapon quickly and decide if I want it or not. I will of course  certain weapons I don't have much experience with or if I have a particular combination of scrolls I think might make them interesting, but generally I only waffle on decisions if what I have is really good already.Unrelated, Against The Flow is a trash occult scroll UNLESS you're Tao. Holy poo poo never having to let go of the fire key is magical. Find yourself a Scapular with the exclusive inscription +100% Projectiles, +100% Ammo Consumption, turn on double shot and watch things melt. I of course immediately lost that run to a bandit shotgunner camping a vault I went into, always clear rooms before you go into vaults!
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Jun 19, 2021 20:25
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Evil Kit posted:I've got 112 hours clocked in as of a few runs today, and had all the talents filled out before the update and pretty much every important talent and most hero talents after the update. I could use an effort post about occult scrolls and inscription synergies. I feel like sometimes my guns melt stuff and sometimes I do no damage and I have no idea what's going on. I just try to stack as much +elemental damage and +lucky shot as possible.
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Jun 19, 2021 21:00
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WarpedLichen posted:I could use an effort post about occult scrolls and inscription synergies. I feel like sometimes my guns melt stuff and sometimes I do no damage and I have no idea what's going on. I just try to stack as much +elemental damage and +lucky shot as possible. The wiki is nice for that, almost all scrolls has a synergy category with positive ones and negative ones: Examples https://gunfirereborn.fandom.com/wiki/Flesh_and_Bones  https://gunfirereborn.fandom.com/wiki/Perfect_Sixth 
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Jun 19, 2021 21:07
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It's pretty annoying to play this game solo since every random bullshit source of damage can end a run I just had a sword bird run in Reincarnation 1 where my Fire Tower was hitting for 45k in the desert area, and the run ended because I jumped off a ledge into a fire trap that was hidden below it, which promptly did 160 damage to me in less than a second and I died
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Jun 20, 2021 00:21
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WarpedLichen posted:I could use an effort post about occult scrolls and inscription synergies. I feel like sometimes my guns melt stuff and sometimes I do no damage and I have no idea what's going on. I just try to stack as much +elemental damage and +lucky shot as possible. I could do one sometime but Occult Scroll talk is really complicated. It essentially boils down to identifying what your current issue is and making use of "pick 1 of 3" occult scroll chests you can find in vaults to cover those issues. Generally Bird needs more offensive scrolls than defensive since he is so naturally tanky, where as Cat, Dog and Bunny all prefer some defensive scrolls first over offense. Tiger is weird, but generally you can just go full offensive scrolls on him since he stays far back anyway. There are a handful of scrolls I will only take if I'm in a fun having mood, and a few I will never touch. Kudos to the devs though, that final pool has shrunk significantly since the game's early release. I consider any of the scrolls that buff Dashing to be must picks unless something else I really want/need has popped up, with Snow Boots (-50% less trap damage, SLOW IMMUNITY!!!) being an always take. ABD (Always Be Dashing) is a very important skill to practice in the game and enhancing that is never bad. As for inscriptions you generally have the right idea already (+lucky shot, +elem damage), any weapon that doesn't have at least one of those isn't going to get you far. Exclusive and Rare inscriptions are usually where it's at, though that is a very complicated and case by case basis for various weapons. If you see an auto weapon that has "Create bullet/elemental ball on crit shot" take that poo poo real fast, those guns get kinda nuts. The real important thing is if you haven't found a god inscription weapon yet, to just keep picking up decent inscription higher level weapons as you find them to help keep up your damage. Otherwise just start sinking money in at weapon smiths to keep your god weapon up to snuff. Hell, now you can even get a gemini inscription on an early find god weapon!
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Jun 20, 2021 00:54
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So I started towards unlocking demonlore again, I was at 46/60 lobsters killed, and my last two runs didn't see any progress even though I was using the gemini shared elemental damage to get fire elements on my main gun. I swear that used to work?
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Jun 20, 2021 01:18
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If you haven't used the Illusion on Tao then you haven't lived. That weapon is buck wild on her.
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Jun 20, 2021 01:24
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