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FrenzyTheKillbot
Jan 31, 2008

Good Hustle




Black is a 2006 first-person shooter video game developed by Criterion Games and published by Electronic Arts. It was a console-only title, released on both Xbox and Playstation 2.

This game is sort of an exercise in distilling a first-person shooter to it's purest form. The base gameplay of an FPS game is shooting guns and in Black, all of the focus is on that experience. The guns are the stars of the show. Compared to the characters and environment the weapon models are incredibly detailed; the developers even referred to the game as "gun-porn". So much effort was put into making satisfying sound effects for gunshots and explosions that the game was nominated for a BAFTA for best audio. The player's interaction with the environment is almost entirely by way of a bullet, environmental destruction and particle effects are not in short supply. However if all this sounds great, there's a downside. For a game with no multiplayer so it can stay entirely focused on it's single player experience, the actual story is an afterthought and there are only 8 missions. For many people, myself included, this makes the game seem more like a tech demo than a triple-A title.

At the end of the day, what this game does, it does well. Join Cletus, Swordfishhh, and I as we put a few thousand rounds down-range and cause some serious destruction. Don't forget hearing protection.

01 - Veblensk City Street
02 - Treneska Border Crossing
03 - Naszran Town
04 - Naszran Foundry
05 - Tivliz Asylum
06 - Vratska Dockyard
07 - Graznei Bridge
08 - Spetriniv Gulag

FrenzyTheKillbot fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Oct 9, 2020

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FrenzyTheKillbot
Jan 31, 2008

Good Hustle




01 - Veblensk City Street


Let's get this party started.



Now a warning, I'm going to make a bit of a personal effortpost here. I didn't mean to take a 3 year hiatus from LPing, I started working on this LP something like 6 months after I finished the last one. My intention was actually to knock out all 8 videos for this LP, get them "in the can", and then start working on a bigger project. However I got busy with work and family stuff, added to spending the free time I had playing other games I had been waiting on. Eventually I totally lost the ability to find time and motivation to work on LP stuff, which I feel very weird about. I'm hoping that getting a project finished and posted will help fuel my motivation, because I do enjoy this hobby. And I guess this paragraph is also a heads-up, because our commentary is probably rusty and any references we make to current events are going to be super old.

Crane Fist
Jun 5, 2012

obsessed with power lines and atomic bombs


I feel like I played this but it's so impossibly generic that I can't actually be sure

Azza Bamboo
Apr 7, 2018

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

"Rose Tinted Glasses"

definitely true. I loved the original Tomb Raider, but I tried to go back to it and the old school controls are just rear end.

Gideon020
Apr 23, 2011


I remember going through this for the Chrome guns with unlimited ammo. Good times. And the little conspiracy theory nods in the collectibles were always good for a chuckle.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts



I wonder how many subwoofers this blew out in the day? So much bass with the explosions.

Also, that is the wimpiest melee attack I've seen in a game in forever. It's less smacking them in the face with the butt of your gun, more 'I drew a bee on the bottom of the mag, would you like to take a look?'

FrenzyTheKillbot
Jan 31, 2008

Good Hustle


Azza Bamboo posted:

"Rose Tinted Glasses"

definitely true. I loved the original Tomb Raider, but I tried to go back to it and the old school controls are just rear end.

Did the original Tomb Raider use tank controls? Every time I've gone back to play the older Resident Evils its just like, why would they even do this? Also, old Resident Evil is another example of awesome/terrible live action cutscenes.

Kaboom Dragoon posted:

Also, that is the wimpiest melee attack I've seen in a game in forever. It's less smacking them in the face with the butt of your gun, more 'I drew a bee on the bottom of the mag, would you like to take a look?'

Yeah that and the terrible grenade throws. It's like they figured out the golden triangle from Halo (guns, grenades, melee) but intentionally put all the points into guns.

FrenzyTheKillbot
Jan 31, 2008

Good Hustle




02 - Treneska Border Crossing


In this one we do some sneaky stuff, and also some very not sneaky stuff.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

The question of how much does 500 bullets weigh requires a lot of variables.

Firstly, one must determine the initial gun and/or caliber.

Next is determining if we are trying to calculate the bullet or the cartridge weight (Think standard internet argument of Clip vs Magazine, they are different).

Additionally, what type of ammunition is equally important. Is it lead/ball? Is it steel core? incendiary? explosive?

And, to a lesser degree, there's the specific powder loading, which doesn't cause a huge variance in overall weight, but can over the span of several hundred/thousand collectively.



So, for example, with the AK-47 (that is a mirrored version, the AK-47 ejects to the right, not the left) you could have a "standard" bullet weight of 8 grams per bullet, but a 16 gram cartridge.

9 pounds for bullets
18 pounds for cartridges

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017


if we can trust wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%D739mm

Current standard ammo(steel core)

it's 16.3g for the cartdrige, 7.9g for bullet and about 1.6g for the filling

give or take 25.8g per munition, lets round it up to 26g. 26g x 500 means 13kg.

That weight is bare ammo, it doesn't include the stamped metal magazines.


The move from 7.62(nato or pact) to 5.56/5.45 was motivated also by reducing ammo weight to be lugged around by each soldier(and most new rounds introduced since then used that point to justify itself as equivalent to X but smaller/lighter).

SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Aug 29, 2020

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

You don't add cartridge, bullet, and filling.

Cartridge is the entire thing.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017


Jobbo_Fett posted:

You don't add cartridge, bullet, and filling.

Cartridge is the entire thing.

Oh, I thought wikipedia used cartridge for the casing weight.
If that's so it's "just" 8.15 kgs.

FrenzyTheKillbot
Jan 31, 2008

Good Hustle


Wow that's way more reasonable than I was expecting. Also be warned, I think we bring it up a few more times throughout the game.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

FrenzyTheKillbot posted:

Wow that's way more reasonable than I was expecting. Also be warned, I think we bring it up a few more times throughout the game.

*loud groan*


Next thing I know you'll be telling me there's no difference between a silencer and a suppressor!


(Seriously though, liking the LP. Hate how this never got ported anywhere)

White Coke
May 29, 2015


It's always interesting seeing games in the middle of a paradigm shift. I thought regenerating health would've been standard by 2006.

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010



It's a lot of bullets no matter what.

White Coke posted:

It's always interesting seeing games in the middle of a paradigm shift. I thought regenerating health would've been standard by 2006.

I'd actually say that Black was part of its own minor shift in handling health. Bweteen the choices of finding health/armor lying around and regenerating health there were a few shooters that opted for what Black used. Picking up medkits for use when the player wanted wasn't particularly common in shooters as I can recall though it is basically just healing potions from RPGs so it isn't exactly a new idea.

FrenzyTheKillbot
Jan 31, 2008

Good Hustle


Jobbo_Fett posted:

*loud groan*


Next thing I know you'll be telling me there's no difference between a silencer and a suppressor!

Haha I don't think we ever really get too far into gun pedantry. Just as I mentioned it was a weird LP for me and we went like an entire month between commentary recording sessions. So I end up repeating myself a few times because I can't remember if I brought up some talking point or another yet. And the other guys just end up having similar reactions to points like "look how much ammo they give us!", which is fine when it's something we talked about a couple months ago, but will be weird when it's in the very next video.

Kibayasu posted:

I'd actually say that Black was part of its own minor shift in handling health. Bweteen the choices of finding health/armor lying around and regenerating health there were a few shooters that opted for what Black used. Picking up medkits for use when the player wanted wasn't particularly common in shooters as I can recall though it is basically just healing potions from RPGs so it isn't exactly a new idea.

I never really thought of it like health potions, that's a neat perspective. The only other shooter game I can think of off the top of my head that has player-used health kits is The Division.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

FrenzyTheKillbot posted:

Haha I don't think we ever really get too far into gun pedantry. Just as I mentioned it was a weird LP for me and we went like an entire month between commentary recording sessions. So I end up repeating myself a few times because I can't remember if I brought up some talking point or another yet. And the other guys just end up having similar reactions to points like "look how much ammo they give us!", which is fine when it's something we talked about a couple months ago, but will be weird when it's in the very next video.

You guys mentioned there's no difference between the two in the 2nd video

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010



FrenzyTheKillbot posted:

I never really thought of it like health potions, that's a neat perspective. The only other shooter game I can think of off the top of my head that has player-used health kits is The Division.

From around the time of Black I can think of FEAR, Project IGI, Max Payne, I might be stretching shooter a bit but Metal Gear Solid series and its rations, and Resident Evil 4.

FrenzyTheKillbot
Jan 31, 2008

Good Hustle


Kibayasu posted:

From around the time of Black I can think of FEAR, Project IGI, Max Payne, I might be stretching shooter a bit but Metal Gear Solid series and its rations, and Resident Evil 4.

Ah yeah Resident Evil is a good call, totally forgot about those games and their herbs. I also don't remember FEAR using health kits but it's been forever since I've played those games. Maybe I should LP them at some point. Swordfishhh dislikes horror games so it could be hilarious.

White Coke
May 29, 2015


All the more reason to do it.

bbcisdabomb
Jan 14, 2008

SHEESH


The environmental destruction in this game looks really good, but when combined with the mid-00's canned animations on death it just looks weird.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.



Grimey Drawer

FrenzyTheKillbot posted:

I never really thought of it like health potions, that's a neat perspective. The only other shooter game I can think of off the top of my head that has player-used health kits is The Division.
It's been around since at least Hexen, that's... 1995? Goddamnit I'm old. Adds a nice little strategic layer to the action.

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010



bbcisdabomb posted:

The environmental destruction in this game looks really good, but when combined with the mid-00's canned animations on death it just looks weird.

I've always kind of missed those animations.

FrenzyTheKillbot
Jan 31, 2008

Good Hustle




03 - Naszran Town


In this one, I make myself look like a total fool in the commentary.

Garrand
Dec 28, 2012




Bobbin Threadbare's Deus Ex: The Lecture Series (youtube playlist)
The LP Archive link and the original SA thread for those interested.

It's really good

Garrand fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Sep 6, 2020

White Coke
May 29, 2015


My favorite JFK assassination theory is that he was accidentally shot by a Secret Service agent with an AR-15 while Oswald was firing at Kennedy, which is why the Secret Service switched to Uzis.

My current favorite conspiracy theory is "Maple Gladio" because the name is funny.

FrenzyTheKillbot
Jan 31, 2008

Good Hustle



Thanks for digging it up.


White Coke posted:

My favorite JFK assassination theory is that he was accidentally shot by a Secret Service agent with an AR-15 while Oswald was firing at Kennedy, which is why the Secret Service switched to Uzis.

I'm pretty sure this is the thing I was talking about when I mentioned seeing a TV show about some conspiracy. I remember that a lot of the focus was on the secret service acting strangely and yeah something about one of their rifles.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land






White Coke posted:

My favorite JFK assassination theory is that he was accidentally shot by a Secret Service agent with an AR-15 while Oswald was firing at Kennedy, which is why the Secret Service switched to Uzis.

My current favorite conspiracy theory is "Maple Gladio" because the name is funny.

My favorite JFK conspiracy was that Oswald was actually trying to kill the Texas Governor, but missed and hit Kennedy by mistake

The governor was SecArmy back in the day and signed Oswald's discharge papers and Oswald was still kinda mad about that

SWORDFISHHH
Apr 1, 2010


Me right after the microphone check:

White Coke
May 29, 2015


Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

My favorite JFK conspiracy was that Oswald was actually trying to kill the Texas Governor, but missed and hit Kennedy by mistake

The governor was SecArmy back in the day and signed Oswald's discharge papers and Oswald was still kinda mad about that

Hadn't heard that one. Connally ended up as Nixon's Treasury Secretary at a pretty pivotal time so his death would've had pretty big consequences.

There's also the theory that JFK wasn't supposed to be killed and that the Conspirators wanted to spook him because they thought he wasn't standing up to the Soviets enough.

FrenzyTheKillbot
Jan 31, 2008

Good Hustle




04 - Naszran Foundry


Today we're going to make a new friend. And blow a lot of stuff up.

malkav11
Aug 7, 2009


There are 8 Venture Brothers seasons, and it was literally just cancelled a couple days ago.

White Coke
May 29, 2015


drat. And to find out about it on 9/11 of all days.

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!




The model for the WA2000 in this game is so hilariously inaccurate.

Edit:
Not to mention the G36C model.

You're thinking of Full Spectrum Warrior. Not bad. Came out for free a couple of years ago.

Cooked Auto fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Sep 12, 2020

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

The revolver's taking shotgun shells aren't in the same caliber as your typical 12-gauge rounds. See: .410 anti-snake rounds.

As for the barrett stuff, yes, it has a recoil system and likely a large muzzle break which helps mitigate the felt recoil. A revolver has no such system, unless its a very special make/model.

White Coke
May 29, 2015


Why does the revolver need a special make/model for such a recoil system? Is it because the chamber isn't as air tight as other models?

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

White Coke posted:

Why does the revolver need a special make/model for such a recoil system? Is it because the chamber isn't as air tight as other models?

Because revolvers dont generally have a barrel that moves when shot, so unless it has a muzzle brake theres not much that can be done to mitigate recoil.

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010



I actually replayed Full Spectrum Warrior for no reason recently and it is painful these days. Most of the game is one of your guys dying to an enemy that spawns in a place where it can shoot you instantly and then reloading a save because that's faster than picking your wounded guy up and taking him back to the save point to be healed. Repeat until you know the exact sequence to get through to the next save point.

It actually got a sequel which is still pretty frustrating but a lot more fun for a number of reasons.

Anyways clearly the P90 is a rifle in this game because they had to make it bigger to hold the 100 bullets.

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FrenzyTheKillbot
Jan 31, 2008

Good Hustle




05 - Tivliz Asylum


We end up in the nuthouse. Where we belong.

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