Crusader Kings 3: apparently marrying commoners is 'uncool'

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crusader Kings 3: apparently marrying commoners is 'uncool'

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Noob here, continuing the playthrough after the tutorial to try to unify Ireland. I had taken Desmond and pressed the claim of some rando in my court to make him a vassal ruling Oriel and Allech to the north, but my chancellor hosed up relations so he didn't like me very much. I made the Ulster duchy title and my wife found a loophole in the law that gave me a claim to Oriel. I then passed limited crown authority and decided to see what would happen if I revoked the vassals title to Oriel. I thought using a hook combined with my claim meant there would be no tyranny and thus it would be cool.

It was not, and the dude rebelled, along with the Earl of Desmond who hated me. My spymaster, the Earl of Ormond, joined them in a Liberty faction. Rather than reload, I decided to see how this played out. I ran around beating up their armies and in the end I had imprisoned the earls of Oriel/Allech, AND Desmond, letting me cleanly revoke their titles and now I directly own all those counties which is a pretty sweet position. This game rules.

Two questions:

1) My spymaster likes me and is still my vassal but also he just tried to overthrow me unless I misunderstood... Should I do something about that?

2) My adult son and heir has no way of life and it won't let me select one... Do I need to land him? Should I give him one of those counties I own?

# ¿ Dec 7, 2020 04:11

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 12:25

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Knuc U Kinte posted:

1) How did he try to overthrow you? Joining a faction? Vassals will do that. If the war kicks off and you win, throw his rear end in jail and take his stuff.
2) He should accrue perks even if he doesn't have a way of life/land. Giving him land might create more scenarios where things are outside your control.

PittTheElder posted:

Did your spymaster actually join the revolt against you? Joining a Liberty faction is insufficient on its own to strip people of their lands.

As for the way of life it seems to be inconsistent, not sure if that's the latest patch or not, but yeah they'll pick one if you land them, though you'll lose most of your control over them if you do.

Thanks, I loaded an auto save to check and while the spy master was in the Liberty faction, he was in my army as a knight so... I guess we're alright.

Should I land my heir then? It makes sense for RP purposes I guess but I see people saying to never land an heir.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2020 04:35

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Ah gotcha, thanks!

Dumb question... How can I see what people think of someone else? I'm trying to kill this dude in another court and want to know who doesn't like him so I can recruit some agents

# ¿ Dec 7, 2020 05:45

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

I have a bunch of useless dudes in my prison; is there a way to execute them without getting a - 5 opinion on all my guests for "executing another guest"? They're not my guests!

# ¿ Dec 9, 2020 05:15

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

A God drat Ghost posted:

Release them for a weak hook and you won't lose dread and no one will care.

I was hoping to build some dread by killing some prisoners of war, is "executing another guest" code for "this person hasn't committed a crime so people won't like this"?

# ¿ Dec 9, 2020 14:30

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Dallan Invictus posted:

If you took the prisoners in a war that stripped their former liege of land then that might explain why they're being flagged as your guests?

Sometimes when this happens their permanent home is set somewhere else, but if that fails they're thrown into the wandering pool like any other guest and your other guests will be perturbed if you execute them for no reason (so yes, if they'd committed a crime I suspect nobody would be bothered)

If you're that concerned about your guests' opinion for some reason - I forget, does torture give dread? It might not trigger the opinion penalty.

Thanks, that makes sense, I did strip the lieges of land. And I was just trying not to tick anyone off, but if my "guests" are just the rando courtiers (and prisoners I guess) hanging around my court then I don't really mind!

# ¿ Dec 9, 2020 21:02

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Thanks for answering all my little questions, I'm finding this game to be a lot like Monster Hunter where it helps to have a good community to ask individual questions because of how dense the information overload is.

I could use some advice on this situation regarding vassals and dynasty... I haven't really looked at how Dynasties work but my understanding is you want to expand your dynasty's power as long as it doesn't create infighting or threats of distant relatives usurping you?

I'm playing as King of Ireland, all but 2 counties are in my kingdom and I'm looking to delegate. I hold the duchy of Ulster title and 2 of its 3 counties. The remaining Ulster vassal (high stewardship and intrique) is very angry because of a combined -65 from "wants to be on the council" and "liege holding duchy title" but otherwise would like me. I'd like to smooth over that region. I'm thinking of landing my Nephew (average stewardship) because he loves me, is part of my dynasty but has no claims, and for RP purposes he's been with me from my start and lost his eye in the battles to win my throne.

Should I (Note: I saved and tested the below scenarios to make sure my opinion predictions were correct)

1) Grant a county to my nephew and make him the duke?

Pros: He loves me, at +100 opinion even with the -25 from me continuing to hold one of his duchy counties. I'd have a strong supporter in this dynasty member with no claims to threaten me with, in a strong position in my kingdom. The grumpy ulster vassal is no longer my problem.
Cons: He'd be a powerful vassal but just average skills to bring to my council, and potentially complications I'm unaware of from making a dynasty member one of my most powerful vassals.

2) Grant a county to my nephew, make the other Ulster vassal my Duke?

Pros: He would like me even with the -25 from me holding one of his duchy counties, and would be an excellent steward or spymaster on my council.
Cons: I wouldn't be boosting my Dynasty that much, and while he likes me wouldn't be as completely loyal as the Nephew.

Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Dec 9, 2020

# ¿ Dec 9, 2020 22:35

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

scaterry posted:

I think that generally you want to hold the counties under the duchy title you own. The reason is that if you put an elective succession law on the duchy title, then a.) you control the results of the election and b.) the duchy title and the counties underneath are not split under confederate partition. So what I would do is land your nephew with a county you have outside the duchy title, and revoke the county title your vassal has, either with a reason or taking the tyranny hit.

If you have to choose between the two options, probably 1.) is better? You have more options to deal with dynasty members, especially as dynasty head. As your nephew, he is likely to have a positive opinion of you and is unlikely to inherit claims. Why would you give a random vassal more power when you won't even give them a council seat?

Miles Vorkosigan posted:

Consider that the high stat vassal will eventually die and you'll have to put their useless heir on the council or risk pissing off a powerful Duke. Same may still happen with your nephew but at least it will be family.

Thanks! I realized I didn't fully explain why I'm intent on bailing from this duchy: I'm planning on holding two other Duchies. Thanks for helping me see the light of Family. This one vassal's stats are temporary, but Family is forever.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2020 04:02

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Is there any benefit to holding your de jure capital? Since a king can only hold two, I'm debating making Dublin's two-County duchy or just keeping the three-county duchies on the north and south ends of Ireland. My realm capital is Munster because twelve hours in I'm still on my "keep playing after the tutorial" playthrough.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2020 17:19

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Is the overseer perk bugged? I have counties that say they're at "absolute control", but then the tooltip says -10% from low control.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2020 18:19

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

I wish I could sit down and have a conversation with people in this game. Or at least have the Civ-type trade window. I like this vassal who has a bumfuck County in my capital duchy. I wish I could tell him "I'm going to give you a nice title over here and make you a Duke, just give me this county here, it's win-win". Instead I have to take his land and hope he doesn't make me crush him.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2020 22:03

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Trevor Hale posted:

I’ve messed around with the timing of gifting and retracting titles. Retracting and then immediately gifting is nice but it truly only works if you have the hook on them first

Yeah, it looks tricky. Does gifting and then retracting work? Or does the power/confidence they gain outweigh the happiness they get from your gift?

# ¿ Dec 11, 2020 22:55

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Trevor Hale posted:

There might be an issue with elevating them up to duke before messing with them? You’ve made them more powerful by gifting another county + duchy and now they might be more hesitant to give up their old title

That's fair. I get it and I don't. I'm sure that not having that fine control over things is actually good in the long run as far as game balance.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2020 23:07

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

It really would make everyone so happy!

I was trying to kill this dude and learned that one of his courtiers is a cannibal, but she left his court and is now just wandering around. Not sure how to use this strong hook now. Can I use it to invite her to be my courtier, then marry her into a target's court so she'll go there, and make her an agent in a scheme?

# ¿ Dec 12, 2020 06:34

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Gotcha, thanks.

Related question, why would my spymaster expose a secret? I had him investigating a rival's court and we learned their bishop had a lover, giving me secrets on both of them. I didn't blackmail or expose them because I was waiting till I was ready to use any hook. Then I got a notification that my spymaster had exposed their secret. Why would he do that???

# ¿ Dec 13, 2020 05:13

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

I like the 3d models, but I don't like that every event (so far that I can tell) is just the 3d models standing in a kind of pocket dimension. That's not unique to Ck3 though, everything that turns to detailed 3d models just uses them in everything in lieu of nice art.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2020 15:17

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

I like that war is over quickly but as a neophyte it's very opaque and I'm never quite sure if I'm reading it correctly, which is in line with much of the game's information. Besides levy counts and MAA counts I'm not really sure why I won or lost a battle to the degree that I did, is it because of my knights, the war leaders, the terrain, did someone cross a river, etc. I fully believe that information IS all ingame and presented to me, I'm just not sure how to find and read it. And it's the less interesting part of the game so I'd rather just do what I need and then get back to the other stuff.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2020 19:45

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Femtosecond posted:

Argh I wasn't thinking and I messed up.

For some bizarre reason I married my son to some daughter of the King of England (was I thinking she had claims or I could kill enough people to make her heir? I have no idea why I did this) and the impact of this though is that now I have an alliance with the King of England which is TERRIBLE because literally everything I want to do right now is about invading England.

How can I break this alliance? Is murdering the King the only way? I have woeful intregue and it's like a 5% chance lol.

Just occurred to me maybe can force my son to get a divorce? I dunno.

Murder the daughter?

Questions about vassal politics and chain of command: Vassal A went to war against another vassal in my kingdom, and is going to take a county in another duchy with no duke: those counties just report up to me, the King. How does the hierarchy work regarding duchy ownership?
Does the external county become part of the Duchy Vassal A calls home, and fall under his Duke?
Does Vassal A become both my vassal and his duke's vassal simultaneously, since one of his counties is under his Duke and one is under me?

Also, Vassal A is ambitious, soon will have two counties, and has a claim on his Duke's county. Can he attack his Duke? Could I (King) intervene if it's a rebellion or something? Can he usurp the Duke title without the Kings permission?

# ¿ Dec 16, 2020 19:53

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Hellioning posted:

So, just to make sure I'm reading this correctly, Vassal A is a count under a duke attacking a count that answers directly to you, correct?

If Vassal A wins, both counties will come under his control, which means both counties will fall under the control of the duke.

Yes, Vassal A can attack his duke for his claim. You will not be able to intervene because it's a normal vassal on vassal war.

Thanks! And correct: specifically talking about Ireland. Vassal A is the count of Ossory, in Leinster duchy, and is attacking Athlone, which sits in the neighboring duchy of Meath (I haven't created that Duke title).

If Vassal A turns and takes his Duke's County, does he get the Duke title by default, or can he re-make it himself? Or will there be a landless powerless Duke? Vassal A has a claim to Leinster County but not the Duchy title, as I just made that title and gave it out a year ago.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2020 20:14

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Hellioning posted:

If he has a claim on the duke title, he will get the duke title if he wins the war pressing his ducal claim. If he just has a claim on the county title, he will just take the county title and have to usurp or create the ducal title.

Gotcha, thanks!

I get why it happens, but it's kinda weird seeing my vassals fight and just shrugging it off. At the same time it feels like I've officially made the big time now.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2020 20:22

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

The same as irl: you get to gently caress

# ¿ Dec 18, 2020 16:06

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Wonder what this is gonna do for the Game of Thrones mod, lol

# ¿ Feb 24, 2021 13:20

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Thinking on this more, I don't really like the addition of weather in theory. Months/years pass so quickly that it seems like it'll always be something to think about in the relevant regions, and I don't think another logistics factor is what this game needs. Much more interested in adding layers to the political/interpersonal stuff.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2021 17:25

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Gantolandon posted:

That's a step in a good direction and should also prevent every OPM count from teleporting in a throng of mercenaries just before your army. I don't think, however, it's good enough. Currently there is no reason not to use mercenaries. They're much better than levies and come with no drawback (as opposed to CK2, where unpaid mercenary troops would gently caress off or even attack you). The same goes for holy orders which nearly everyone can afford, which makes the human player unable to recruit them, as every time they become available, another AI ruler nabs them.

I think hiring mercenaries should work more like hiring knights – you announce that you need them and they either come to you, or not. Actually getting someone would require having enough money to spare and possibly outbidding competition, not to mention being in range of an appropriate wandering mercenary company or monastic order. This should prevent a situation where some count in the middle of Siberia insta-teleports 5000 heavy cavalry to help his 20 slingers and 10 guys with sharpened sticks repel an army of 20 conscripted peasants, 5 guard dogs and a really mean goose.

This post got me thinking that it'd be neat for prestige or other factors to impact hiring mercenaries. Or have the base military strength values interact with mercs somehow? I'm sure how to work it into game balance but seems like mercs would be more willing to come fight for a king who's looking to pay someone to steamroll a lovely count, than to come be the ones who get steamrolled in that situation.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2021 16:26

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

wologar posted:

I got that chain on my very first babby's tutorial Ireland game. 400 hours later I think I've only seen it again once.

I got it on my first game too. I was excited because my extremely disappointing heir was the killer, so at the end I exposed him thinking it would let me get rid of him. I didn't realize that regular murder isn't a punishable offense, so he just became an even worse heir with the murderer trait.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2021 12:50

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

I wish there was a way to just automate war entirely. I get that it's a major way to operationalize holding territory and vassals in terms of raw power so you can't remove it, but I just have no interest in fiddling around with the armies and various battle factors and terrain tool tips. I'm a king can't I just tell my general to take care of it?

Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Sep 16, 2021

# ¿ Sep 16, 2021 17:27

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

CK3 feels much easier to get into though it's still super dense. That's huge for some because it means you actually play the game instead of just thinking about it.

I will say a downside is that there are way fewer events in terms of variety, and CK2 had really evocative art for them, whereas CK3 just uses the character models (which are otherwise a huge improvement) standing around in a generic background.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2021 18:10

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 12:25

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

LiterallyATomato posted:

CK3 on sale on Steam. Worth a play without the DLC, or is the DLC very necessary?

It's great without the DLC. The flaws compared to the previous game will take a while to surface, especially if you haven't played a bunch of CK2.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2021 01:12

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