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do serious linguistics experts actually use wikipedia for sources or w/e? i dont understand how wikipedia being a bad source for a language is harmful to the actual language itself. surely no one who actually studies languages is just going on wikipedia and using that as all their data...?
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Aug 27, 2020 04:22
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get rekt scotcels your "language" is just r-slur english
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Aug 27, 2020 04:26
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SHISHKABOB posted:do serious linguistics experts actually use wikipedia for sources or w/e? i dont understand how wikipedia being a bad source for a language is harmful to the actual language itself. surely no one who actually studies languages is just going on wikipedia and using that as all their data...? people doing machine analysis on languages will use wikipedia sometimes, since its a standard format and you can compare a text to a version in another language. this is especially true for a language like scots with a paucity of contemporaneous written prose to draw from
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Aug 27, 2020 04:30
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Yeah, its a really good resource to cross compare, but it also turns out that maybe there isn't much digital scots content because nobody is looking for it.
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Aug 27, 2020 04:34
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eSports Chaebol posted:people doing machine analysis on languages will use wikipedia sometimes, since its a standard format and you can compare a text to a version in another language. this is especially true for a language like scots with a paucity of contemporaneous written prose to draw from That sounds a little risky. I read the same articles in several (actual, non-BS, not mutually intelligible) languages on a regular basis, and they are never even closely written in the same style, let alone 1:1 translations of each other.
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Aug 27, 2020 04:55
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I'm pretty sure that the Trainspotting book was written in scots, it had a nice glossary in the back for regular humans.
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Aug 27, 2020 04:57
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screamin and creamin posted:That sounds a little risky. I read the same articles in several (actual, non-BS, not mutually intelligible) languages on a regular basis, and they are never even closely written in the same style, let alone 1:1 translations of each other. I think you're misunderstanding a couple things. You assume it's a translation model. It could be something that makes novel Scots plays or maybe it's for a Scots chatbot. Maybe it's just learning Scots grammar for linguistic purposes. There are a lot of things it could be doing that has nothing to do with any other language. You also assume, if it is for translation, that the model is going to compare the same articles, which at that point, why even use machine learning? If you're going to teach your model Scots, it needs a lot of data. Wikipedia is usually one of the biggest sources of digital text data, so it's usually a good source of training material.
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Aug 27, 2020 06:05
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Shadow0 posted:I think you're misunderstanding a couple things. You’re certainly the most condescending chatbot I’ve ever seen the output of. What you’re saying is all very nice, but the person I quoted said “you can compare a text to a version in another language”. I was only pointing out that that comparison will not make much sense for many Wikipedia articles that are on the same subject but in different languages, because their contents, structures and styles may be very different. Next time read what someone responded to and at least address that, and stick to the subject without unnecessary baggage like your first two sentences.
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Aug 27, 2020 07:57
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screamin and creamin posted:No True Scotsman would do this. 
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Aug 27, 2020 08:11
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To all you people saying Scots is mutually intelligible with English, I can assure you it's only like that when written.
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Aug 27, 2020 09:35
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If you can watch Limmy's Show without subtitles, you are fluent in Scots
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Aug 27, 2020 09:50
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CountryMatters posted:If you can watch Limmy's Show without subtitles, you are fluent in Scots I really want to know Limmy's take on this overall situation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7msoqnz2bcY
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Aug 27, 2020 10:16
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*keeps a dead or near dead language alive by translating wikipedia pages into it* LOL look at this vain idiot.
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Aug 27, 2020 10:24
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If you think this is bad, wait until you find out about the people writing English wikipedia!
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Aug 27, 2020 12:10
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Weka posted:To all you people saying Scots is mutually intelligible with English, I can assure you it's only like that when written.
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Aug 27, 2020 12:19
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A good song in Scots about tricking people to join the army. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1WGgSCO9k0
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Aug 27, 2020 12:42
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Pretty lol at the goons running breathlessly into the thread to post about how they can understand written Scots when most of them would need subtitles to understand the average Glaswegian speaking English.
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Aug 27, 2020 12:43
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I'm reminded of the old Scottish saying: Ef ye kenna fen the doon, ye netha fren the moon.
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Aug 27, 2020 13:15
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screamin and creamin posted:Next time read what someone responded to and at least address that, and stick to the subject without unnecessary baggage like your first two sentences. Sorry, I didn't mean to sound condescending. Also, I see now that I somehow misread or skipped over what you were quoting.  I'm an idiot, sorry.
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Aug 27, 2020 13:21
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Klyith posted:Ae last edit, then we sever; this is one for the next burns night
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Aug 27, 2020 14:01
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Mr Teatime posted:Pretty lol at the goons running breathlessly into the thread to post about how they can understand written Scots when most of them would need subtitles to understand the average Glaswegian speaking English. idk you seem the breathless one here. I think everyone else is mostly jokin
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Aug 27, 2020 14:14
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yikes! posted:mostly jockin
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Aug 27, 2020 14:52
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eSports Chaebol posted:people doing machine analysis on languages will use wikipedia sometimes, since its a standard format and you can compare a text to a version in another language. this is especially true for a language like scots with a paucity of contemporaneous written prose to draw from sure, ok, fine. But still, not everyone uses machine analysis. And even if they did, I would certainly hope they have some way of doing, like, checks for insane fuckups like this. Like they should already have real life examples of the Scots language that don't come from wikipedia that they can do sanity checks against. If their machine analysis created Scots language from Wikipedia comes up looking like gibberish compared to actual Scots, then they would save themselves a lot of trouble. I'm sure any serious linguist would do something like this, which is why I highly doubt that this whole fiasco actually matters in any sense.
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Aug 27, 2020 15:09
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Honestly surprised someone hasn't made a version of Wikipedia written entirely in that internet furry uwu language
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Aug 27, 2020 16:22
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Got to visit Scotland a few years ago, their museums are excellent and Edinburgh is fun to explore. Drivers do not yield to pedestrians even at crosswalks and that is scary.
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Aug 27, 2020 18:11
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Devils Affricate posted:Honestly surprised someone hasn't made a version of Wikipedia written entirely in that internet furry uwu language Is there a Welsh wikipedia?
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Aug 27, 2020 20:07
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Colonel Cancer posted:Is there a Welsh wikipedia? Yes. https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafan
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Aug 27, 2020 20:19
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Caesar Saladin posted:I really want to know Limmy's take on this overall situation.
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Aug 27, 2020 20:32
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Rebel Blob posted:Wait, Limmy went from having his own TV show to being a video game streamer? https://youtu.be/fCCAnnLRcgY
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Aug 27, 2020 20:37
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it is kind of an indictment of scots as a language that someone who doesn't speak it was able to fake it well enough to write an entire encyclopedia and nobody noticed for a decade
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Aug 27, 2020 21:54
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DELETE CASCADE posted:it is kind of an indictment of scots as a language that someone who doesn't speak it was able to fake it well enough to write an entire encyclopedia and nobody noticed for a decade I think 'its a language actually!!!!' is just a 'thing' because of the ultranationalist movement in scotland.
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Aug 27, 2020 21:59
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lollin'
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Aug 27, 2020 22:14
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hakimashou posted:I think 'its a language actually!!!!' is just a 'thing' because of the ultranationalist movement in scotland. Invading airports to make road signs have English, Gaelic, and Scots on them. Campervans blasting off roundabouts like team rocket are a small price to pay.
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Aug 27, 2020 22:29
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quote:If the French version of wikipedia was all "onh hee hon hee hon, zis is ze French Weekupehdiaa" there would be no debate about whether or not it should remain.
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Aug 27, 2020 22:30
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Good ta see ya, welcome ta Canehdian wikipedia, eh? Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (/ˈɡɑːndi, ˈɡændi/;[2] 2 October 1869 – 30 January 1948) there was a Indian lawyer,[3] anti-colonial nationalist,[4] and political ethicist,[5] there that employed nonviolent resistance to lead this here successful campaign aboot India's independence from that there British rule,[6] don'tcha know, and in turn inspired movements for civil rights and freedom across the whole gosh darn world there eh?
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Aug 27, 2020 22:37
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Weka posted:To all you people saying Scots is mutually intelligible with English, I can assure you it's only like that when written. While that's presumably true, I feel like that goes for the majority of British English dialects
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Aug 27, 2020 22:37
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it.wikipedia.org/wiki/street_sharks 'Eyyyy, da Street-a Sharks-a, she is an American-a-Canadian-a animated-a series, about-a de adventures of-a crime-a-fighting half-a-man/half-a-sharks-a. Mama mia! Cheesioso!
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Aug 27, 2020 22:43
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Cubone posted:Good ta see ya, welcome ta Canehdian wikipedia, eh? Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (/ˈɡɑːndi, ˈɡændi/;[2] 2 October 1869 – 30 January 1948) there was a Indian lawyer,[3] anti-colonial nationalist,[4] and political ethicist,[5] there that employed nonviolent resistance to lead this here successful campaign aboot India's independence from that there British rule,[6] don'tcha know, and in turn inspired movements for civil rights and freedom across the whole gosh darn world there eh? well this belongs in the gee-golly minnesota wikipedia now
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Aug 27, 2020 22:46
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P.T. is a first-person psychological horror veedyo game develoeped by de Kojima Stoodyos, mon, and published by that bomboclaat babylon Konami
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Aug 27, 2020 22:55
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SHISHKABOB posted:do serious linguistics experts actually use wikipedia for sources or w/e? i dont understand how wikipedia being a bad source for a language is harmful to the actual language itself. surely no one who actually studies languages is just going on wikipedia and using that as all their data...? Linguists don't, but Like the people making the Facebook automatic translator.
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Aug 28, 2020 00:54
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