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Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

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There, much better than a Jorby Peterkids drawing!

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Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

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Are there any nice stories going on atm. I am kind of burning out on all the misery.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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These are all good. Thank you. It's just hard sometimes. Thanks again.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:

My bird laid an egg :shobon:

What a good bird! I hope that they are having fun with the egg!

RFC2324 posted:

And here's a nice one... a bunch of goons just came together to let you know they care about you :shobon:

Also true. Thank you folks.

And thanks easily confused!

Edit: how on earth do people manage to phone post at all?

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:

She doesn't want it.

Do you want egg? Maybe two birb if egg?

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Vindolanda posted:

What happened to Moon Slayer? Did the moon win?

I think they still post in certain places? I think?

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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I think one of the issues is, why not be an arse? Ultimately there isn't a lot that most of us are ever going to be able to do to make the world better, partially because of mental illness or our own cowardice or any of a hundred different things. So people try and make others understand those feelings through expressing themselves in the most extreme manner they can. Because giving up can feel oddly freeing.

I always thought I dreamed Ghost dad as a concept. Bloody hell.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Heath posted:

It's the same answer as for why you don't rip a fart in an enclosed space. It won't hurt anybody, and you'll feel better, but it makes everything stink.

If you say so. TBH I can understand the anger and the wish to have some level of disagreement and engagement, especially if it's the only way you think you can make a difference.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Heath posted:


What's honestly gained by taking an offended and detached tone with someone online?

If I might answer the first bit slightly churlishly; nothing is lost or gained from it. You'd have to think that there is somehow value to be found in discussion or meaning to be found in connection at all. Two things which I am unsure everyone respects.

But the point is that you, the person being refered to, don't matter. This isn't an attempt to truly persuade but to inform. It's the hope that waving the battle flag when you are shot means something. That somehow the emotional throughput that comes from getting very very cross and trying to do something with enough venom and spite that it makes the other person think about why you would be that angry.

I understand that it probably wouldn't change anyone's mind. However, have you never wanted to reply to anyone (either IRL or on here) by calling them foolish?

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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iwentdoodie posted:

Not until this moment

That's fair. Sorry.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:

in reality you end up being the ranting fixture on a soapbox people completely ignore as they pass by

Oh no it's not "informing" as in imparting actual information the person you are talking to may want. It's informative of the emotion felt in the clearest terms availiable. It's "informative" by making yourself so loud that what you say sticks with the other person more than if you said it politely. Take Piss Christ, there are so many better commentaries on Jesus' suffering, but the most scatological and controversial remains stuck in your head a lot more. I'm not saying that it works in particular instances or that it is a good thing ever, merely that this is how it appears to me from an exterior perspective.

They will see that a hundred people have that opinion. Most likely it also serves to promote in group cohesion. If you think that anger is boring then I am sure I could not persuade you otherwise. There are lots of things people find boring.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Heath posted:

I wouldn't say nothing is lost by it. There is some truth to that whole "there are two wolves inside you" thing. I don't think it's good to indulge the urge to be negative too much. Not to say it should be suppressed or whatever, but I've definitely found that when I let myself be a dick about something online that it really does have a negative impact on how I go on to do other things later, even offline. It coarsens me.

And I do think there is value in the discussion and the connection, and that the past year has really kind of driven that home for me.

And if the wolf you feed is wrong when compared with observable reality? That is very fair though.

I think it's important to realise that, to a lot of people, bullying the unrighteous is the only way to feel a sense of control and agency over a world which makes no sense and appears to have now punishment for the people who make the rules. I don't agree with it, but it's an attempt to understand it. That and, again to a hopefully smaller group of people, no-one on the internet is really "real".

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Antivehicular posted:

I'm gonna be honest here: I have read quite a few of your posts, and they have never conveyed any idea to me other than "Josef Bugman is really not doing very well." You're certainly informing me of your emotion, but you're not informing me about anything else!

I'm sad about that.


That's very fair. Thank you.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Then that's their choice? Trying to attain meaning through pointless anger is kind of a big thing for a large number of people. Sometimes myself included and I was trying to tell you why that is.


I, again only personally, am not asking you to care but to consider why things are the way things are. If your response is "this bores me and I find you boring" then that is a fine reaction to have. Thank you for replying.

Antivehicular posted:

I'm sorry, and I realize that post came off harshly. I don't dislike you as a poster or anything, but I wanted to let you know that I don't really think your communication mode is working as well as you think it is -- it's okay to be in pain, and to want or need to express it to someone, but I think it's actively distorting your message in a lot of cases.

It's fine! You didn't come across harshly at all. I know I don't post particularly well.

But that is still, again just to me, a shame. I don't like making other people notice that I am not at my best. Especially not in threads where it isn't about that. Thank you again.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:

man, all i do is consider why things are the way they are. its not like some dude teeing off about liberals is going to tell me anything i haven't already heard before

Okay. Thank you.

"I don't find you shouting at me compelling" is fine, but the reasoning as to why people do things, or believe they do things, is still something I was trying to explain, though again, probably not all that well.

Josef bugman has a new favorite as of 03:41 on Mar 29, 2021

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Fantastic Foreskin posted:

"People will take me more seriously if they see that I am Very Angry" has to be one of the more mind-boggling assertions I've seen in recent memory. You have to willfully disregard every interaction you've ever had with people who are Very Angry to think this has even the most remote chance of being true. Or spend a lot of time nodding thoughtfully at your crazy uncle / comment sections.

I realise that I may well have made a category error here in terms of what I've been trying to say.

To the angry person who is shouting there is not a true attempt to persuade the other person of your points BECAUSE you are angry. It is an attempt to state that you are here and alive by BEING angry about this point. That your feeling of anger has to have meaning because you make others witness it and give it meaning even if the reaction is one of boredom, disgust or mockery.

That whole idea, that somehow having other people being forced to confront what you feel somehow lends "authenticity" to it.

Bear in mind I don't agree with this as a sensible idea. It's not sensible or helpful in the least and is pretty masturbatory as a statement and as an action. It is, however, something that seems to be done an awful lot.

Sorry, I am probably not being clear again.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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The problem then becomes, of course, what a "healthy" response is and, to me less interesting but still widely held, the idea of when certain actions are appropriate.


I think it might be out of a desire to be persuaded otherwise but also a desire to find meaning in things. Those other options (going outside, hobbies etc) also are not particularly available for a lot of people right now and so an option that people do is based around going "the world is hosed". I've noticed that if you approach something with a different emotional response to something, rather than a different material approach, people react to it more. As a "for instance" Ghost Leviathan mentioned the whole "happy warrior" idea. To certain people it's appealing as an idea. However to others it'd probably come across as not only wrong to do but actively insulting. Sometimes actively embracing the futility of an action and the feeling of despondency is seen to have merit



It happens, I am not sure I understand it myself, but it's fine!

Crowetron posted:

Wandering the forums wastelands, wistfully hoping to one day return to the warm embrace of the Imp Zone.

-Berserk music plays in the background-

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Strategic Tea posted:

I honestly think "I'm not depressed I'm just being realistic" ranks close to "bad thing wouldn't have happened if they didn't deserve it" in most harmful human brainworms.

Can I add "Just because I'm depressed doesn't mean I'm wrong" from the personal catalogue?

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Heath posted:

"You're not wrong, Walter, you're just an rear end in a top hat" is a phrase that comes up often in my brain when I get sad or angry on here

Yaaaaarp. But eh, such is life I suppose. And don't worry, didn't think you were!

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Ugly In The Morning posted:

I mean, the forum is literally named after “everything/nothing”, as in “these posts are about stuff that means everything to the person writing it and nothing to the people reading it”. The war ophan stuff on top of that was a bit much.

Oh so that's the meaning of E/N!

Though that's also the interesting thing of "everything is one thing or nothing" which you see a lot in depression and anxiety.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Solice Kirsk posted:

I think the big thing is there's no such thing as a "murder dog"

Tell that to the judge when I strapped the rockets and knives to my Chow. They were at best a manslaughter dog.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Shame, he always seemed nice.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Boba Pearl posted:

This is fake right?

How can you be 20 minutes ahead???

There are actually a fair few countries whose timezones are +30 +20 and +45 minutes ahead of the "hour" time for their location. It's really cool. It's like how there are multiple places that just plain don't include one timezone in their nations time keeping.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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RFC2324 posted:

Given that india is one of them, I'm going to risk saying that what we think of as the top of the hour isn't what the majority of humanity thinks is the top of the hour.

I am not sure on that one. China is not only on the "top of the hour" but it is also all on the same timezone across itself in it's entirety. To be fair the majority of the population lives within that timezone, but it's still lovely considering that there can be as much as a three hour difference in daylight between some places.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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I used to have a full list of all of them from work, but I think the main ones that (again last time I checked) weren't on the hour are:

India, some island territories of Australian and New Zealand governance, Sri Lanka, Iran, Afghanistan, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Nepal and one tiny bit of Labrador.

I had to learn all this for a tour guiding job I had. It was always neat explaining to people how there were places they could stand where 3 time zones met.

One little fact that was really cool was that Samoa switched an entire day back in 2011, going from Thursday to Saturday.

Josef bugman has a new favorite as of 17:18 on Apr 9, 2021

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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RFC2324 posted:

Wait, so Samoa is several days off from the rest of the world?

Sort of? You see they were doing a load of trade with Australia and New Zealand and were on the "wrong side" of the international date line. So for them they would ship things or try and talk to people on a Monday, whereas for NZ or Aus it would be a whole day later, even though the time of day was very similar.

It's like when places switched from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar you "lost" about 13 days.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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RFC2324 posted:

Oh, its the thing on the map where the dateline goes around the island?

E: less of a dateline and more of a guideline

It is indeed!

It's also why if you fly directly south from Hawaii you can end up in tomorrow.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Snow Cone Capone posted:

I would venture that that one is so hosed up that it should not be dredged up and preferably never mentioned again :wtc:

Seconded, Gods bones.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:

a lot of podcasts and other internet content are great examples of capitalisms ability to absorb and neuter criticism of itself. like its hard for me to take seriously any left economic criticism from someone making $10k a month in donations skimming wikipedia and selling merch

Why?

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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steinrokkan posted:

Because they are selling safe, marketable fashion accessories to comfortable middle class people whose only concern is that being bougie is a bad look / too gauche (but don't actually want to do or change anything).

The sheer number of people who are apparently super mad at them continuing to exist kind of speaks against that a little.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Care to elaborate?

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Stunt_enby posted:

what? no it doesn't, what the gently caress? please explain your logic

Essentially; "Shut up and gently caress off your taking away from The Real Struggle tm" can come in two flavours. 1) is a genuine belief that people talking about leftist things are inherently going to be co-opted and used and should stop trying to live inside of anything or make money off of it. I'm personally sympathetic to that PoV even if I don't personally hold it. 2) is the belief that talking isn't action, that you aren't "really committed" unless you are doing everything the way the person in question is doing things and your being fake about your principles.

The latter also dovetails nicely with people who believe that socialists must live only on very low wages in order to be valid/ have a point.

Stunt_enby posted:

burden of proof is on you for making the claim bro

Fair point. Is this explanation okay?

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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steinrokkan posted:

Talking is action, but you can always tell who is sincere and who is a scam artist based on how their ratio of producing material related to their mission statement to begging for donations on Twitch skews towards the latter.

That's fair.

Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:

now my posts are worse than before.

[joke] I mean such a thing is difficult to believe. [/joke]

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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That's fine I am sorry that the first bit was so poorly laid out.

That's also a good point. Thanks!

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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I don't get what that means but okay!

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Just as a quick question, but isn't a 10,000 hour probation effectively a ban?

I know this is more the "posting about stuff that is going on in the forums" thread but I was wondering why bother with the extra long probe?

Thanks!

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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VanSandman posted:

The ultimate power move would be to post, 'As I was saying' and continue the argument you were banned for.

I presume that due to the drift in the forums culture you may well end up being correct in the argument you were originally banned for.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Who was/is Guy Mann?

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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JacquelineDempsey posted:

The worst/best part (for me as a mod, anyway) is that you can still file reports when probed. I'll come home from my exhausting day job, check in here and see a handful of reports from PYF. "Aww gently caress, what now --- oh, they're all from [Guy Mann alt]. Oh. Trash!"

So yeah, your imagined scenario is pretty much on the mark.

Oh gosh that is so sad.

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Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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How is it spelt in old movies when people say "the jig is up" is that a j or g thing too?

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