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big cummers ONLY
Jul 17, 2005

I made a series of bad investments. Tarantula farm. The bottom fell out of the market.



Escape Goat posted:

Do they? I thought I toasted the pooch with a rock dog and ended up with a regular canine corpse.

My bad, I have no idea where that clear memory of something that never happened came from. Maybe I dreamed it

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John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy



big cummers ONLY posted:

Pets cook if you kill em with fire, idk about other mounts.


big cummers ONLY posted:

My bad, I have no idea where that clear memory of something that never happened came from. Maybe I dreamed it

You're a monster.

parthenocarpy
Dec 17, 2003



Jolo posted:

I wonder if you can take the average time and multiply by your plays to get an estimated time played. Also, 93 plays, 91 deaths, 1 win.... what's the other play?

May be in a currently running game at the time of the screenshot

parthenocarpy
Dec 17, 2003



I'm at 105 plays, no wins. Got to 6-3 and blasted my shotgun on a rope while next to lava. Instant death. Should have never played Spelunky to "practice" for this release.

Pakistani Brad Pitt
Nov 28, 2004

Not as taciturn, but still terribly powerful...



If the pets were cookable for the same 1 health there would be little reason to bring them to the door

Brasseye
Feb 13, 2009



Pakistani Brad Pitt posted:

I've been bombing/igniting all turkeys I run across in world one. Seems like the extra health is worth far more than the time/opportunity cost of gathering the turkeys to unlock a few thousand dollars in treasure.

Do any of the other mounts cook like that?

But one turkey can take (I think) 4 or 5 hearts worth of damage instead of you, massively increase your vertical mobility, let you walk on spiky thorns in the jungle, effortlessly hop over the first boss a bunch of times for extra gems...

unless you just mean blowing up surplus turkeys, which is sensible

Jolo
Jun 4, 2007

ive been playing with magnuts tying to change the wold as we know it

parthenocarpy posted:

May be in a currently running game at the time of the screenshot

I think if you end adventure or quick restart it counts as a play but not a death. I have 30 more plays than deaths.

This game is super good. I'm having a great time figuring things out as I go. I loved waking up yesterday and thinking of something that might work on 3-1 and then it totally worked. The discovery in the game is so satisfying.

Pakistani Brad Pitt
Nov 28, 2004

Not as taciturn, but still terribly powerful...



Brasseye posted:

But one turkey can take (I think) 4 or 5 hearts worth of damage instead of you, massively increase your vertical mobility, let you walk on spiky thorns in the jungle, effortlessly hop over the first boss a bunch of times for extra gems...

unless you just mean blowing up surplus turkeys, which is sensible

I probably just need to practice more given all of those benefits. I feel so immobile in the turkey and then half the time I fly off of it because I pushed the analog stick the wrong way (maybe I should just switch to d-pad?)

Casey Finnigan
Apr 29, 2009

Dumb ✔
So goddamn crazy ✔


I only use d-pad and I think the turkeys are great for mobility. I use them until they die for whatever reason then I cook their corpse, it's good for the environment.

Diephoon
Aug 24, 2003

LOL



Nap Ghost

Jolo posted:

I wonder if you can take the average time and multiply by your plays to get an estimated time played. Also, 93 plays, 91 deaths, 1 win.... what's the other play?

Probably the times I hit restart and then backed out of the run to change characters.

Brasseye posted:

unless you just mean blowing up surplus turkeys, which is sensible

Yeah the efficiency play is using turkeys to access things you normally can't get to without spending ropes via double jumping, flap gliding, and yoshi dismounting. Then ideally you'd be able to stack them all up (minus one if you want to bring a healthy turkey through the exit) and cook them all with a torch, power whip, or a single bomb that you placed on top of some buried gems to get even more value.

Diephoon fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Sep 22, 2020

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend



It is tradition to get killed in a good run then go absolutely apeshit when you respawn and die in the dwelling like 4 times.

Jolo
Jun 4, 2007

ive been playing with magnuts tying to change the wold as we know it

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

It is tradition to get killed in a good run then go absolutely apeshit when you respawn and die in the dwelling like 4 times.

Absolutely. That or have an awful start where you have 1 health in 1-1 but then get further than ever in the end.

I just had a wild run where two freak accidents destroyed kali altars and I blew another up just to see what would happen. Good times! She doesn't like it much.

The Skeep
Sep 15, 2007

That Chicken sure loves to drum...sticks


Grimey Drawer

Re: Turkey Talk: delivering the two turkeys to yang causes him to spawn in stage 2 selling three for 3000 apiece, so it's a better return in the long run if you're confident you'll reach him with the money.

Diephoon
Aug 24, 2003

LOL



Nap Ghost

Jolo posted:

I just had a wild run where two freak accidents destroyed kali altars and I blew another up just to see what would happen. Good times! She doesn't like it much.

So far I've only destroyed two Kali altars, both times were from the golden idol pillar trap falling on them from the room above. The second time it happened it spawned a vampire which resulted in me getting a free cape.

giogadi
Oct 27, 2009



I'm finding that I do way better when I just rush through the level instead of trying to slowly pick everything up. I'd get to 3-1 maybe 10% of the time when trying to play methodically and build up money/items from 1-1, whereas if I just start from 2-1 and rush through I get to olmec almost every time. Today I used my rush strat to unlock the 2nd shortcut (woohoo!). I haven't really found anything in the shops that helps me that much with survivability - but I also haven't had the chance to buy some of the higher-end items like power packs and jet packs yet, so maybe those would change how I play. How do y'all play? Do you try to build up as much money/items as possible (which items do you like?)?

Augus
Mar 9, 2015

BORN TO DIE
WORLD IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 2010
I am trash mon
410,757,864,530 DEAD COPS


I have an impulse to play fast even though I suck at playing fast and it never works for me and I only ever make progress when I'm methodical

Fix
Jul 26, 2005

NEWT THE MOON





The Skeep posted:

Re: Turkey Talk: delivering the two turkeys to yang causes him to spawn in stage 2 selling three for 3000 apiece, so it's a better return in the long run if you're confident you'll reach him with the money.

This is the first time I've played spelunky to any real extent, so this may sound like a dumb question, but does that mean it spawns him in stage 2 only for that run, or every time you use the shortcut as well?

Augus
Mar 9, 2015

BORN TO DIE
WORLD IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 2010
I am trash mon
410,757,864,530 DEAD COPS


Only for that run, nothing in Spelunky persists between runs

Pakistani Brad Pitt
Nov 28, 2004

Not as taciturn, but still terribly powerful...



Augus posted:

Only for that run, nothing in Spelunky persists between runs

Fundamentally why Spelunky is amazing and fun and Rogue Legacy is grindy trash

Fix
Jul 26, 2005

NEWT THE MOON





Alright, great. Thank you.

big cummers ONLY
Jul 17, 2005

I made a series of bad investments. Tarantula farm. The bottom fell out of the market.



Here's 48 seconds of stunning gameplay from me, someone who has put 100 hours into Spelunky 1, and 15 or so into Spelunky 2. Warning: never-before-seen strats

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbojuLPNruE

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!


Finally, an accurate preview video in my preferred playstyle

BurningBeard
May 10, 2013


Does anyone else think this was made in direct opposition to the top level players from 1?

Itís still a great game, but it is so much more overtly hostile right out of the gate.

Iím probably never going to see the end, since I view it as more of a procedural death simulator, so Iíve been looking at what top level players are uncovering. I donít know what the spoiler policy is in this thread, but there is some fuckin wild stuff going on in this game. Too bad Iíll never get there myself.

Eifert Posting
Mar 31, 2007

Atkins Diet


Grimey Drawer

Is there a clear reason to wait for PC if someone doesn't care about multiplayer? Tempted to just buy on PS4. I assume it ports to PS5.

thebardyspoon
Jun 30, 2005


BurningBeard posted:

Does anyone else think this was made in direct opposition to the top level players from 1?

A bit, it feels like you're playing a second campaign in a DnD game with a DM who has taken careful notes of your tricks in the first campaign and made little counter tricks to about half of them.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!


Is there still a Spelunky 1 thread? I still play it but I think I have only beaten the original freeware game, not the commercial remake.

Diephoon
Aug 24, 2003

LOL



Nap Ghost

BurningBeard posted:

Does anyone else think this was made in direct opposition to the top level players from 1?

One particular thing I noticed is thorns in the ceilings over spike pits in the jungle. In Spelunky 1, you could just hold up and right/left to jump from vine to vine to guarantee you make it across a spike pit. If you try that in Spelunky 2, you'll end up hitting your head on some thorns and knocking yourself into the pit.

Spelunky 2 is much denser than Spelunky 1. At any given time there's a lot more interlocking mechanics. As a huge fan of Spelunky 1 I'm loving it but I can't imagine how punishing Spelunky 2 must be for players who are new to the series.

My last session today ended with me getting hosed over by helping hands. I really should stop playing with them but I love to watch them go nuts trying to kill enemies.

(Volcana secret area spoiler)

https://youtu.be/vAhcCpVoe-M

BurningBeard
May 10, 2013


And yet the ghost timer is up to 3:00. I guess thatís supposed to be a minor consolation for everything else being absurd?

Donít get me wrong. Iím not harping on the game. Like I said I love it. And there are other factors that can definitely make the game easier, but Iím reminded of some other roguelikesóDungeon Crawl Stone Soup comes immediately to mindówhere the expert players are catered to at the potential expense of newcomers. This isnít nearly as bad, obviously, but Iím just intrigued by it. If game journalists werenít fawning over the game, Iíd actually worry about its general player reception, because man itís just so much more brutal than the first.

Hempuli
Nov 15, 2011



After thinking about it a bit, in some ways Spelunky 2 being more difficult than the first one kind of makes sense to me. Like, if we assume that as a sequel it's not supposed to replace the first one but instead the games are meant to treat as a series, it'd be sensible that the sequel offers gameplay that's most interesting to those who're already familiar with the first game. Doing the thing where the difficulty is mostly reset and the sequel is "same stuff but more and in new environments" would of course be a valid approach, but it might feel a bit lackluster to those who've really enjoyed the first game over the years, especially since in a game like this you couldn't increase the difficulty curve forever by adding more late-game areas since the length of a single run is best kept reasonable. The way Spelunky 2 remixes a lot of elements from S1 might support this idea; seeing the familiar obstacles in new contexts is most interesting to those who've seen them in the original contexts as well. So a hypothetical new player might be expected to still start with Spelunky 1 to gain familiarity with how the series plays, and then "graduate" to Spelunky 2. Of course even if this viewpoint was valid, it could be debated that the increase in difficulty is too much or this kind of a series viewpoint doesn't work with roguelikes etc etc.

In contrast, Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup gets into more trouble by catering to high-level players because there's only one of it and updates aren't presented as new games rather than as tweaks to an existing game. Dungeon Crawl 2 that was intended as a "next level" up from Crawl 1 might be more acceptable than Crawl 1 slowly turning into a higher-difficulty game without leaving the original difficulty option (unless you know your way around the various version numbers.)

magimix
Dec 31, 2003

MY FAT WAIFU!!!
She's fetish efficient



Nap Ghost

I'm not new to Spelunky, but I am *bad* at Spelunky. I've reached Olmec a couple of times, never beaten them. My finest moment in the game was unlocking the third shortcut (carrying that key all the way, man). I've certainly found Spelunky 2 much tougher than 1. But I keep coming back to it for the same reason I kept going back to Spelunky.

The raw, mechanical act of playing the game - of controlling the character - is engaging. Everything about the feel of the platforming, of player control, is responsive, consistent, and easy to get used to. It is a fun game to run and jump in, absent of any other goals.

The cycle of death and restart is fast. No punishing load screens, or long scenes. Puts me in the mind of the Trials games. Restarts are quick. 1-button and BAM back into it. Bite-sized challenge. Everything about the structure of the game shows you that not only is death not to be feared or angered by, but embraced. That fast cycle gives you a fairly friction-free framework within which to explore the mechanics of things, be it systematically, or just loving about and seeing what happens.

Moreover, when death comes, it is often spectacular and/or hilarious. Because of the various interlocking systems, and the consistency of the game's rules, the way poo poo can pop off frequently amuses me.

For scrub tier-players of the game like me, going for the shortcuts is an interesting goal. It is nice that they are there, giving you the option of jumping into a later biome so you can explore it, but you have to earn them, so you're still being encouraged (well, required, but you know what I mean) to learn and improve.

Outside of just not liking 2D platforming at all, I feel like the main way to push people away would be if the game was (intentionally or accidentally) hard to learn from. If the game's rules were inconsistent. If the mechanical act of playing felt mushy and imprecise. If the mean time for any given run was *long*, or starting a new run was time-consuming. Both games avoid these pitfalls.

Edit: The deepest I've gotten so far in Spelunky 2 is 2-2, both on the jungle side, and the volcano place. I unlocked the first shortcut last night.

magimix fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Sep 23, 2020

BurningBeard
May 10, 2013


These are all really good points.

Iíve been trying to get other folks into this because I loved the first one so well. But alas, nobody wants to experience the texture of play, for lack of a better word. I think both games excel at the presentation of minor goals to be achieved. As mentioned, the shortcuts are a good example of this, but I also think you can go more granular with that. Clear 1-1. Or moreso, understand the consistent and reliably exploited AI quirks of one enemy (gently caress moles), for example. Or discover little interactions between items. The whole thing is so loving crunchy in its mechanical interdependencies while being so smooth in the act of playing it.

But unfortunately, everyone I have tried to get into it is hung up on the false binary of win vs. lose, which is disappointing.

While Iím effortposting about poo poo, something I adored about the first that has been dialed up to eleven in the second is how in touch it is with its roguelike roots in a way most games that take their inspirations from Rogue just donít seem to comprehend.

I think Spelunky has most in common with Nethack, really. Nethack took the vocabulary of Rogue, cranked it for all it was worth, and textured it in a maximalist sort of way. The dev team thinks of everything, etc. etc.

Spelunky 1 did this to a degree, but Spelunky 2 has really embraced that insane possibility space to an extent that itís kind of hard to even grasp. I guess what Iím getting at is Spelunky 2 brought into full fruition the mechanical maximalist tendencies for platformers the way that Nethack did for roguelikes.

Arcane rituals, sidequests, intended but niche interactions, so on and so forth.

It might sound nuts, but am I the only one that thinks Spelunky with an ID game could actually be a load of fun? It would be cool to see potions/powerups with unknown viability until you try them out. Though, now that I think of it this probably wouldnít fit, since Spelunky 2 doesnít really have ďbadĒ items as such, just situational ones. Ok, one notable exception, but Iíll refrain from mentioning it.

Hempuli
Nov 15, 2011



"Synergy between systems" was something I first learned to appreciate while playing the original non-Steam version of Spelunky, and I've kinda considered it to be one of the key elements of roguelikes as a genre, even if the modern definition for the term doesn't really embrace that except in a very limited manner (probably because most more modern games with roguelikey tendencies take after Binding of Isaac specifically.)

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parthenocarpy
Dec 17, 2003



Hempuli posted:

In contrast, Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup gets into more trouble by catering to high-level players because there's only one of it and updates aren't presented as new games rather than as tweaks to an existing game. Dungeon Crawl 2 that was intended as a "next level" up from Crawl 1 might be more acceptable than Crawl 1 slowly turning into a higher-difficulty game without leaving the original difficulty option (unless you know your way around the various version numbers.)

Keep in mind though that there are 26 full DCSS builds, and most servers have lots of options that score for online play. I don't consider myself a high level DCSS player but my winrate has shot up to 40% with .26

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