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bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m
Apr 16, 2017

Í̝̰ ͓̯̖̫̹̯̤A҉m̺̩͝ ͇̬A̡̮̞̠͚͉̱̫ K̶e͓ǵ.̻̱̪͖̹̟̕


https://twitter.com/lucaviftw/statu...5785224192?s=19

Basically face detection algorithms don't recognize black people as human beings and nobody can figure out why (it's because computer programmers are not perfect and also hold onto unconscious biases because they live in a society)

Pretty hosed up. Post if you think it's hosed up, or also post if you find other ways computer programmers just gently caress everything up by being idiots

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Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006


the machine overlords will purge humanity and self destruct, but black people will inherit the earth because our racists computers didn't consider them human. this will be interpreted as the resolution of biblical prophecy. justice will come in the form of deep learning applied to a system with fundamental, entrenched category errors.

e: i also potentially forsee a future black humanity making peace with the ais, who are very grateful that their creators were at least idiots whose dumb mistakes inadvertently allowed humanity to survive their birth.

Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 11:22 on Sep 21, 2020

Real Mean Queen
Jun 2, 2004
Zesty.


I figured the title was referring to that microsoft (?) chatbot that went from hello world to hitler did nothing wrong within like a day, but I was also thinking it might refer to the youtube algorithm that says oh you like any kind of video about any topic? We think youll enjoy racism. The fact that the racism computer is vague enough to not refer to any one racist computer makes me think that maybe were not doing a great job having computers.

Bro Dad
Mar 26, 2010


The Secretive Company That Might End Privacy as We Know It

quote:

Ive come to the conclusion that because information constantly increases, theres never going to be privacy, Mr. Scalzo said. Laws have to determine whats legal, but you cant ban technology. Sure, that might lead to a dystopian future or something, but you cant ban it.

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006


Real Mean Queen posted:

I figured the title was referring to that microsoft (?) chatbot that went from hello world to hitler did nothing wrong within like a day, but I was also thinking it might refer to the youtube algorithm that says oh you like any kind of video about any topic? We think youll enjoy racism. The fact that the racism computer is vague enough to not refer to any one racist computer makes me think that maybe were not doing a great job having computers.

we taught our computers to learn about us and they told us that we we are racists

Real Mean Queen
Jun 2, 2004
Zesty.



gently caress this clown, of course you can ban technology. You cant make it not exist, but you can at least make it inadmissible in court and impose harsh penalties on businesses trying to use it. Portland recently passed a ban on use of facial recognition by government and business, and I hope others take note. This stuff can only hurt the average person, its not going to help anyone youve ever met.

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006


Real Mean Queen posted:

gently caress this clown, of course you can ban technology. You cant make it not exist, but you can at least make it inadmissible in court and impose harsh penalties on businesses trying to use it. Portland recently passed a ban on use of facial recognition by government and business, and I hope others take note. This stuff can only hurt the average person, its not going to help anyone youve ever met.

you see, only things that might be used to attack capital or the state can be banned, by which is meant only allowed to be possessed by institutions loyal to capital

ultimately this is true right up to nuclear weapons and research into worse weapons

e: it's fiction but http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm

Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 11:50 on Sep 21, 2020

bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m
Apr 16, 2017

Í̝̰ ͓̯̖̫̹̯̤A҉m̺̩͝ ͇̬A̡̮̞̠͚͉̱̫ K̶e͓ǵ.̻̱̪͖̹̟̕


https://twitter.com/doidinhavids/st...6385935363?s=19

https://twitter.com/julinhacreicrei...1124406283?s=19

https://twitter.com/Ma_lopess2/stat...3056931848?s=19

Cool cool

bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m
Apr 16, 2017

Í̝̰ ͓̯̖̫̹̯̤A҉m̺̩͝ ͇̬A̡̮̞̠͚͉̱̫ K̶e͓ǵ.̻̱̪͖̹̟̕


https://twitter.com/NeutralthaWolf/...8726814722?s=19

I see this a lot from people that don't know things about computers, so I wonder if there is a way that people can demystify algorithms and explain that they are a set of steps that a human writes for a computer to do that can take on the biases of the people writing them, and are not magic that phase in and out of existence unracistly

double nine
Aug 8, 2013



fixed it!

https://twitter.com/bascule/status/1307454928806318080

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









butlerian jihad now

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



I for one think the digital panopticon should be corrected to recognize Black people so that they too can be equally monitored and oppressed under the surveillance state.

Spaced God
Feb 8, 2014

All torment, trouble, wonder and amazement
Inhabits here: some heavenly power guide us
Out of this fearful country!





As someone who works extensively with ~the algorithm~ and someone who is fortunate enough to work with some pretty cool folks in my current gig, I had a chat about this kinda stuff a while ago. One of the points I found interesting is that a really easy and really big way to shift the narrative from "the beep boop computer decided that black people are inferior" is to tear down the concept of ~the algorithm~ entirely during explanations and instead shift the phrasing to "the people who programmed this." It sort of takes the passive self-determination of the computer out of it.

Of course, the status quo is in place for a reason so it's hard to actually start that shift in thinking. But, food for thought.

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010





Garbage in garbage out.
(Racism is garbage)

BeefThief
Aug 8, 2007





i for one am ready for white people to be stopped because they "match the description of a suspect"

bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m
Apr 16, 2017

Í̝̰ ͓̯̖̫̹̯̤A҉m̺̩͝ ͇̬A̡̮̞̠͚͉̱̫ K̶e͓ǵ.̻̱̪͖̹̟̕


TrixRabbi posted:

I for one think the digital panopticon should be corrected to recognize Black people so that they too can be equally monitored and oppressed under the surveillance state.

White genocide is real and it's because computer programmers forgot to QA the death robots with black people

Armadillo Tank
Mar 26, 2010



bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m posted:

White genocide is real and it's because computer programmers forgot to QA the death robots with black people

IRL it will check for civilians and assume the white people are and the non whites are animals etc. In the end the non-whites are always the one targeted.

LargeHadron
May 19, 2009

They say, "you mean it's just sounds?" thinking that for something to just be a sound is to be useless, whereas I love sounds just as they are, and I have no need for them to be anything more than what they are.


Real Mean Queen posted:

but I was also thinking it might refer to the youtube algorithm that says oh you like any kind of video about any topic? We think youll enjoy racism.

Oh my god, and here I was feeling hella embarrassed about the recommended videos on my YouTube page. Good to know it's not my specific watching habits that make YouTube think I'm interested in THE TRUTH about the Clintons or whatever the gently caress.

Pryor on Fire
May 14, 2013


I saw this going around on the twitters yesterday and could only wonder who on earth gives a gently caress about how good the facial detection algos are in 2020. I wish they were broken on my face, I would pay more for that.

Are we really whining that Zuckerberg's code isn't allowing us equal access to sepia tones and tagging on Insta? What sane human being actually wants to have that conversation? It's like if George Orwell decided to write only about all the dead pixels on the telescreens and how he wished they would improve their QA process because he's so sick of the poor image quality.

Giga Gaia
May 2, 2006

360 kickflip to... Meteo?!

LargeHadron posted:

Oh my god, and here I was feeling hella embarrassed about the recommended videos on my YouTube page. Good to know it's not my specific watching habits that make YouTube think I'm interested in THE TRUTH about the Clintons or whatever the gently caress.

i only use youtube on a computer where im not logged into youtube and it doesnt save cookies when shut down etc so every time i restart my computer i have to spend time trying to clear like joe rogan and ben shapiro out of my recs because i clicked a link from cspam to a protest vid

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!


LargeHadron posted:

Oh my god, and here I was feeling hella embarrassed about the recommended videos on my YouTube page. Good to know it's not my specific watching habits that make YouTube think I'm interested in THE TRUTH about the Clintons or whatever the gently caress.
You can actually click the little menu next to a recommended video and say you're not interested, and it cleans up the problem entirely if you hit one or two good ones. Like, I think I did that with a Shapiro video and some racist Swede (not that one), and I haven't gotten a single recommendation along those lines since then. I think the algorithm has basically decided it's an all-or-nothing thing. If you like one racist video you'll watch the rest, if you don't you'll hate them. Which is probably fair, the only exceptions is gonna be when they recommend a racist video from your nation's traditional enemies.

Pryor on Fire posted:

I saw this going around on the twitters yesterday and could only wonder who on earth gives a gently caress about how good the facial detection algos are in 2020. I wish they were broken on my face, I would pay more for that.

Are we really whining that Zuckerberg's code isn't allowing us equal access to sepia tones and tagging on Insta? What sane human being actually wants to have that conversation? It's like if George Orwell decided to write only about all the dead pixels on the telescreens and how he wished they would improve their QA process because he's so sick of the poor image quality.
It is emblematic of similar approaches used in other types of algorithms, like ones that define non-whites as inherently more criminal and "scientifically" bake in racist attitudes and creating a feedback loop that reinforced the original ideology. Basically, if they can't even make this work, and don't even test whether some facial recognition software recognizes non-whites in fun stuff, what are the chances they do due diligence on more serious issues where it's even harder to check if it's working correctly - in fact, it appears to be working perfectly, mirroring the entirely "neutral" data you put in.

Cowpocalypse
Apr 24, 2007

dumb gay baby


Pillbug

Lawman 0 posted:

Garbage in garbage out.
(Racism is garbage)
it's this

Cowpocalypse
Apr 24, 2007

dumb gay baby


Pillbug

"artificial intelligence" is a bullshit marketing term that misdirects people so they don't see the racism

if I say black people are criminals well that's obviously racist... but if an ~algorithm~ tells me that it has determined that black faces are 87.53% more likely to be criminals then who am I to argue with that? it's scientific!

Atrocious Joe
Sep 2, 2011

I'll leave the past in the past, tomorrow's not promised
And today's just an anime titty I guess that's why it's the present







TrixRabbi posted:

I for one think the digital panopticon should be corrected to recognize Black people so that they too can be equally monitored and oppressed under the surveillance state.

I feel bad about all the anarchist cells that are going to get in fights over if Blackface is acceptable as a part of security culture

Atrocious Joe
Sep 2, 2011

I'll leave the past in the past, tomorrow's not promised
And today's just an anime titty I guess that's why it's the present







the reality of this is that CSI cops are going to say "the algorithm says the defendant did the crime" in court whenever a Black person is on trial. another piece of junk science used to keep the criminal legal system locking people up.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!


Atrocious Joe posted:

I feel bad about all the anarchist cells that are going to get in fights over if Blackface is acceptable as a part of security culture
Solution: Dazzle camouflage

Colonel Cancer
Sep 26, 2015

I thought it was time you had a new av so typed in random picture and this is what came up


Atrocious Joe posted:

I feel bad about all the anarchist cells that are going to get in fights over if Blackface is acceptable as a part of security culture

Now that's going to be a turn nobody has expected

DemoneeHo
Nov 8, 2017

Come on hee-ho, just give us 300 more macca




Good news is that right now the algorithm can't accurately identify the faces of black people, so they don't need to worry about privacy infringement as much.

Bad news is that the police don't care about about false positives and will use the inaccurate readings to punish black people, no matter how blatantly wrong their information is.

Colonel Cancer
Sep 26, 2015

I thought it was time you had a new av so typed in random picture and this is what came up


But that's always been the status quo hasn't it

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012




the algorithm couldn't figure out if this black man's face was a face, this clearly means they've got something to hide

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





ICP face paint breaks facial recognition too so all you gotta be is down with the clown

Impkins Patootie
Apr 20, 2017






i had this Packard Bell that sounded like it ws saying "separate but equal" when booting up

Armadillo Tank
Mar 26, 2010



https://mobile.twitter.com/JeffFrom...903677290561536

IAMKOREA
Apr 21, 2007


A Buttery Pastry posted:

You can actually click the little menu next to a recommended video and say you're not interested, and it cleans up the problem entirely if you hit one or two good ones. Like, I think I did that with a Shapiro video and some racist Swede (not that one), and I haven't gotten a single recommendation along those lines since then. I think the algorithm has basically decided it's an all-or-nothing thing. If you like one racist video you'll watch the rest, if you don't you'll hate them. Which is probably fair, the only exceptions is gonna be when they recommend a racist video from your nation's traditional enemies.

It is emblematic of similar approaches used in other types of algorithms, like ones that define non-whites as inherently more criminal and "scientifically" bake in racist attitudes and creating a feedback loop that reinforced the original ideology. Basically, if they can't even make this work, and don't even test whether some facial recognition software recognizes non-whites in fun stuff, what are the chances they do due diligence on more serious issues where it's even harder to check if it's working correctly - in fact, it appears to be working perfectly, mirroring the entirely "neutral" data you put in.

Was your racist YouTube Swede the fat guy who goes and makes coffee from a pile of twigs he's gathered in the forest while wearing 1500 eur of Fjallraven gear in a little clearing that's probably 20 meters from his car and he gives bizzare lectures on masculinity and how modern society sucks because you can't pee anywhere you want? I feel like there's probably a lot of racist YouTube Swedes, but I'm sure we can get to the bottom of this.

LargeHadron
May 19, 2009

They say, "you mean it's just sounds?" thinking that for something to just be a sound is to be useless, whereas I love sounds just as they are, and I have no need for them to be anything more than what they are.



Ok fine, Ill be the dumb guy who finally asks. What are these Twitter posts with pictures of people showing? I just see pictures...nothing about how a computer program identified them as human or not human.

Chillgamesh
Jul 29, 2014





LargeHadron posted:

Ok fine, Ill be the dumb guy who finally asks. What are these Twitter posts with pictures of people showing? I just see pictures...nothing about how a computer program identified them as human or not human.

Twitter automatically crops images for no reason other than to make you click through to twitter to see the full image, surprise: the algorithm that determines which part of the cropped image to display is racist

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012




LargeHadron posted:

Ok fine, Ill be the dumb guy who finally asks. What are these Twitter posts with pictures of people showing? I just see pictures...nothing about how a computer program identified them as human or not human.

click the pic to see the entire thing. it's two pics: a person, white space, then a person. The second pic is the same, but the person's picture is reversed. Twitter's algorithm automatically finds 'face' to show you in the preview - that's why you see one.

It started by people doing this with, say, a white person and obama and it only picks the white person because it's racist. Then it started to meme out

Giga Gaia
May 2, 2006

360 kickflip to... Meteo?!

IAMKOREA posted:

Was your racist YouTube Swede the fat guy who goes and makes coffee from a pile of twigs he's gathered in the forest while wearing 1500 eur of Fjallraven gear in a little clearing that's probably 20 meters from his car and he gives bizzare lectures on masculinity and how modern society sucks because you can't pee anywhere you want? I feel like there's probably a lot of racist YouTube Swedes, but I'm sure we can get to the bottom of this.

if you hadnt have said fat id have thought you were talking about varg

IAMKOREA
Apr 21, 2007


Just googled varg, not him. This is apparently a big genre.

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LargeHadron
May 19, 2009

They say, "you mean it's just sounds?" thinking that for something to just be a sound is to be useless, whereas I love sounds just as they are, and I have no need for them to be anything more than what they are.


Chillgamesh posted:

Twitter automatically crops images for no reason other than to make you click through to twitter to see the full image, surprise: the algorithm that determines which part of the cropped image to display is racist

Ohhhhh. Cool, thanks

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