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BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

BUT SATAN'S BOY
I COULD NEVER BE!



Pork Pro

Storm One posted:


It's also a good thing that anyone who didn't realise this was something Sony could have been doing is now aware they always could (and now definitely will).
They aren't losing any privacy from the rolling recording policy because they never had it to begin with when using the PlayStation for voice chat.

Up to this point on the PS4 you could remove your voice from other people's uploaded videos. If we're talking about party chat with people you're already friends with then why wouldn't people want this as an option?



edit; similarly, if a controller has a built-in mic why wouldn't people want the option of turning it off

BeanpolePeckerwood fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Oct 18, 2020

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BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

BUT SATAN'S BOY
I COULD NEVER BE!



Pork Pro

Rad Valtar posted:

Nah I'm good.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

univbee
Jun 3, 2004





Possible about-face incoming.

https://twitter.com/PlayStation/sta...1580218368?s=20

This might be more for the actual workings of it from the user side, not the recording component, it's not clear.

univbee fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Oct 18, 2020

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

BUT SATAN'S BOY
I COULD NEVER BE!



Pork Pro

lol

Rad Valtar
May 31, 2011

CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; OR ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OR OF THE PRESS; OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, AND TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES.


BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

Up to this point on the PS4 you could remove your voice from other people's uploaded videos. If we're talking about party chat with people you're already friends with then why wouldn't people want this as an option?



edit; similarly, if a controller has a built-in mic why wouldn't people want the option of turning it off

Yeah I don't want to give someone the choice to remove what they said from a party I control.

CommunityEdition
May 1, 2009


See, right there! They thanked us for speaking up so itís easier to monitor what we say

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming


univbee posted:

Possible about-face incoming.

https://twitter.com/PlayStation/sta...1580218368?s=20

This might be more for the actual workings of it from the user side, not the surveillance component, it's not clear.

Sony is having a kind of nightmare launch period

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.


morestuff posted:

Sony is having a kind of nightmare launch period

Are they?

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

BUT SATAN'S BOY
I COULD NEVER BE!



Pork Pro

Rad Valtar posted:

Yeah I don't want to give someone the choice to remove what they said from a party I control.

What does controlling the party have to do with it? lmao

Storm One
Jan 12, 2011




Floss Finder

BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

Up to this point on the PS4 you could remove your voice from other people's uploaded videos. If we're talking about party chat with people you're already friends with then why wouldn't people want this as an option?

Technically this could still be an option (it probably won't in practice EDIT: it still is apparently), and yes I agree it should be. Sony can keep the audio recordings of everyone but still honour the individual preferences of each user wrt uploaded videos.


BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

edit; similarly, if a controller has a built-in mic why wouldn't people want the option of turning it off
Again, this is also an option, and one Sony may very well make a reality.

I'm just much farther on the spectrum than most and simply Do. Not. Want. to trust anyone to do what they claim: if the pad has no audio input hardware at all, problem solved.

Storm One fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Oct 18, 2020

Wardark Grimhams
Mar 8, 2006


All of this can be avoided by simply not using the product in question.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005





Toilet Rascal

The Dual Sense has a mic mute button but it's software so you still have to trust it a little bit, unlike the PS4 where running with no mic physically present is a supported configuration

univbee posted:

Possible about-face incoming.

https://twitter.com/PlayStation/sta...1580218368?s=20

This might be more for the actual workings of it from the user side, not the recording component, it's not clear.

This is almost certainly about the party/group functionality changes and not the recording issue

haveblue fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Oct 18, 2020

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

BUT SATAN'S BOY
I COULD NEVER BE!



Pork Pro

Wardark Grimhams posted:

All of this can be avoided by simply not using the product in question.

bad faith first post itt!

Wardark Grimhams
Mar 8, 2006


I simply do not have an expectation of privacy in a voice chat on a product by a private company.

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

BUT SATAN'S BOY
I COULD NEVER BE!



Pork Pro

Wardark Grimhams posted:

I simply do not have an expectation of privacy in a voice chat on a product by a private company.

If privacy rights of people w/r/t youtube, twitch, etc have been respected on their platform up to this point then why wouldn't you expect them going forward?

Wardark Grimhams
Mar 8, 2006


Because I have 0 expectations of any company. I just buy games and play them. I don't play multiplayer.

Edit: I should say I don't play multiplayer anymore, I used to enjoy it but I never used voice chat due to the massive toxicity.

Wardark Grimhams fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Oct 18, 2020

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001






haveblue posted:

The Dual Sense has a mic mute button but it's software so you still have to trust it a little bit, unlike the PS4 where running with no mic physically present is a supported configuration


This is almost certainly about the party/group functionality changes and not the recording issue

Yeah people are mad that their messaging groups and parties are now the same thing

Idc really i usually just join a group and start complaining about a different game than everyone else is playing lol

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

BUT SATAN'S BOY
I COULD NEVER BE!



Pork Pro

Wardark Grimhams posted:

Because I have 0 expectations of any company. I just buy games and play them. I don't play multiplayer.

Glad you weighed in!

Rad Valtar
May 31, 2011

CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; OR ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OR OF THE PRESS; OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, AND TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES.


Wardark Grimhams posted:

Because I have 0 expectations of any company. I just buy games and play them. I don't play multiplayer.

Edit: I should say I don't play multiplayer anymore, I used to enjoy it but I never used voice chat due to the massive toxicity.

If only we can find a way to prevent this.

Wardark Grimhams
Mar 8, 2006


Rad Valtar posted:

If only we can find a way to prevent this.

Some sort of moderation?

Bad Parenting
Mar 26, 2007

This could get emotional...




Surveillance creep is a very real thing and anyone who says "I've got nothing to hide so they can monitor me" is a moron

If you're not happy with Sony recording you (if that's what's going on, I haven't been following this story) then just don't use their party chat, there's other alternatives out there.

Rad Valtar
May 31, 2011

CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; OR ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OR OF THE PRESS; OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, AND TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES.


Wardark Grimhams posted:

Some sort of moderation?

Moderation isnít needed because everyone partakes in group activities without it in good faith.

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

BUT SATAN'S BOY
I COULD NEVER BE!



Pork Pro

You could just...not have toxic people in your party...


How is this so hard?

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

I just start off my mornings by yelling all my plans for the day into my DS4 so Sony and the government already know it all and I donít have to worry about them overhearing anything more

Rad Valtar
May 31, 2011

CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; OR ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OR OF THE PRESS; OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, AND TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES.


BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

You could just...not have toxic people in your party...


How is this so hard?

You do realize that millions of people play multiplayer games with pubbies because they donít have other people to play with? I donít have the data but Iím sure itís the vast majority.

Storm One
Jan 12, 2011




Floss Finder

^^ this

BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

If privacy rights of people w/r/t youtube, twitch, etc have been respected on their platform up to this point then why wouldn't you expect them going forward?

Sorry to ask but what are you basing this from? In the official blog post they don't talk about it either way.

I never voice chat and haven't checked the privacy options in the PS4 since the update for any changes, is the "mute own voice form other player's uploads" setting you mention really gone now?


Escobarbarian posted:

I just start off my mornings by yelling all my plans for the day into my DS4 so Sony and the government already know it all and I don’t have to worry about them overhearing anything more

Joke's on you, it has no mic

il serpente cosmico
May 15, 2003

Best five bucks I've ever spend.

For the folks who are upset about the five minutes of voice chat being recorded on a rolling basis - would you prefer that voice chat not be moderated? Because I can't think of any other way to do it that isn't completely toothless.

Or would you prefer that they recorded public chat but not private chat?

I suppose they could record matches and keep the data on the private server, but that seems even worse from a privacy standpoint.

Twibbit
Mar 7, 2013

Space Rock VS Space Water


BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

You could just...not have toxic people in your party...


How is this so hard?

Ah yes, everyone knows every aspect about a person and what they are going to do in the future when they join a party.


A HS friend of mine turned out later in life to be a rapist/pedophile so I am not sure I can accurately predict how people loving turn out

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

BUT SATAN'S BOY
I COULD NEVER BE!



Pork Pro

Storm One posted:

Sorry to ask but what are you basing this from? In the official blog post they don't talk about it either way.

I never voice chat and haven't checked the privacy options in the PS4 since the update for any changes, is the "mute own voice form other player's uploads" setting you mention really gone now?

I certainly hope not!

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

BUT SATAN'S BOY
I COULD NEVER BE!



Pork Pro

Twibbit posted:

Ah yes, everyone knows every aspect about a person and what they are going to do in the future when they join a party.


A HS friend of mine turned out later in life to be a rapist/pedophile so I am not sure I can accurately predict how people loving turn out

Granted.

Storm One
Jan 12, 2011




Floss Finder

il serpente cosmico posted:

I suppose they could record matches and keep the data on the private server, but that seems even worse from a private standpoint.

Legally, they can't if they intend to comply with the GDPR. Technically, they can do it and not tell anyone but, again, they always could so the new policy changes nothing, they're not gaining any powers they didn't already have.

il serpente cosmico
May 15, 2003

Best five bucks I've ever spend.

Storm One posted:

Legally, they can't if they intend to comply with the GDPR. Technically, they can do it and not tell anyone but, again, they always could so the new policy changes nothing, they're not gaining any powers they didn't already have.

Got it. Could they ask everyone to opt in to such a system by making it part of the PS+ EULA?

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

BUT SATAN'S BOY
I COULD NEVER BE!



Pork Pro

Rad Valtar posted:

You do realize that millions of people play multiplayer games with pubbies because they donít have other people to play with? I donít have the data but Iím sure itís the vast majority.

Why would anyone play with pubbies?

Storm One
Jan 12, 2011




Floss Finder

il serpente cosmico posted:

Got it. Could they ask everyone to opt in to such a system by making it part of the PS+ EULA?

It can be opt-in, it can't be part of an EULA because that would not be true opt-in (voluntary) but actually mandatory.

The GDPR is explicit about the only personal data that can be kept being the minimum necessary for providing the service, and all other extraneous bullshit has to be (actually) opt-in. Violations are rampant, of course, and enforcement is sadly lacking.

Last 5 minutes of audio for moderation purposes almost certainly complies with GDPR; permanent records don't, and even if an user voluntarily opted-in to such a thing they'd still have the right to demand deletion of all personal data at any moment.

univbee
Jun 3, 2004





So to clarify on the recording issue because there's some confusion with this and there's sort of two components to this (independent concerns that also work together).

- The PS5 keeps a rolling audio recording of the last 5 minutes of chat audio that can't be turned off. This is apparently stored locally. Someone can upload this to Sony for moderation review for potential repercussions for toxicity.

- The DualSense has a built-in microphone so it can record voice even without any microphone separately plugged into it. It can be muted with a button on the controller but this appears to be just a software button. I imagine the console will properly say you're muted (I know my PS4 does when I press "mute" on my Sony headsets), although it's theoretically possible that some recording is happening anyway.

Both of these things produce a variety of privacy concerns since this is an expansion of how things are now (where you can more clearly opt out of your voice being recorded in a few obvious ways that apparently won't be possible on PS5).

Rad Valtar
May 31, 2011

CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; OR ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OR OF THE PRESS; OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, AND TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES.


BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

Why would anyone play with pubbies?

Itís in the post. loving lol.

...!
Oct 5, 2003

You were all (w)right! I shall now consume the world.


BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

The funny thing is that the low bat warning comes up and you still have like 90-120 mins of use left. I just keep using it until it dies, and then it dies right in the middle of a good run on a bloodsouls boss or something

And then I plug it in and use my charged spare. The extra controller bundle at PS4 launch was worth it.

This is the only proper way to do it.

Ride the controller until it dies then swap, and not a moment before.

Policenaut
Jul 11, 2008

On the moon... they don't make Neo Kobe Pizza.



I don't play multiplayer games with goons because every single time I've joined a community on PS4 with goons for some online PS4 game invariably with "Goon" in the title the community itself is dead as hell and no one plays or talks. So thanks I'll just play DBD or Squadrons or whatever with the rest of the PSN like a normal person.

Rad Valtar
May 31, 2011

CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; OR ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OR OF THE PRESS; OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, AND TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES.


Policenaut posted:

I don't play multiplayer games with goons because every single time I've joined a community on PS4 with goons for some online PS4 game invariably with "Goon" in the title the community itself is dead as hell and no one plays or talks. So thanks I'll just play DBD or Squadrons or whatever with the rest of the PSN like a normal person.

Yeah this is weird to me. Every multiplayer goon group I join has tons of people playing for the first couple of weeks with no one inviting to play games then it just dies out.

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...!
Oct 5, 2003

You were all (w)right! I shall now consume the world.


VideoGames posted:

Game stop? More like game continue!

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