|
JazzFlight posted:I immediately went into AI: The Somnium Files after this and am forcing myself to play it because it's so booooooooring compared to 13 Sentinels. I nearly fell asleep as the dialogue was auto-advancing at one point. This is also where I am. I jumped in to AI last week after hearing a lot of good things about it, but after 13 Sentinels it's just not doing it for me at all so far.
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2021 20:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 22:45 |
|
|
Agrias120 posted:This is also where I am. I jumped in to AI last week after hearing a lot of good things about it, but after 13 Sentinels it's just not doing it for me at all so far. EDIT: I really hate the horny main character, too. I think he's 30-something and he's creeping on this 18-year old who if my theories about their forgotten personal pasts are accurate, is way creepier than the game even presents it right now. EDIT 2: Also, the dub isn't bad for speaking (although the dialogue is super padded so I'm clicking ahead before the lines end while I didn't do that in 13 Sentinels), but the English dub of the vocal song is veeeeeerrrrrry cringey. The singer isn't that great and the lyrics are super clunky. And they play it multiple times. JazzFlight fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Feb 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2021 20:50
|
|
|
I liked Somnium quite a bit... by the end, which finally got into the Uchikoshi insanity I crave. If you're not enjoying the journey up to that point it might not be for you. Also, yeah, moving away from escape rooms to moon logic adventure game sequences was... a poor choice.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2021 20:51
|
|
|
JazzFlight posted:The "puzzles" are so absolute garbage that I can't believe this game got good reviews unless I'm just not far enough into it yet. They're all in dream sequences, so it's nearly completely random as to whether one thing will work over another, you just have to guess. You can't even take your time and do trial and error either because each attempt takes crucial seconds off of your limited supply. It's like someone saw a critique of adventure game "moon logic" and thought to make every puzzle like that. Yeah, the dream sequences have been annoying so far. I like the absurdity of them, but the time limit seems to go against what they are trying to do with it. I'm still pretty early, but the plot ramming Date and Iris together so much just feels awkward. My wife's got just as high of a tolerance for pervy plot stuff as I do, but after Date made a comment about how Aiba's hologram's boobs should be bigger she groaned and said, "this feels like it was written by an 8 year old." And, well, it doesn't feel like she's wrong so far. Really hoping it takes a left turn and gets a lot better.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2021 20:55
|
|
|
To me the more natural jumping off point from 13 Sentinels in terms of VNs is Steins;Gate.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2021 21:09
|
|
|
Steins;Gate is very good, handles gender issues a bit less deftly though, unfortunately.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2021 21:10
|
|
|
AI is good and the dream sequences are hilarious and own E: well apart from the depressing ones
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2021 21:29
|
|
|
I like the dream sequences in AI as mood pieces, but they're lacking as puzzles.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2021 21:33
|
|
|
Sakurazuka posted:Not really, there's some VN's with similar structures, the Zero Escape games, and you could try Odin Sphere (the newer version not the PS2 one) it's much more gameplay focused though. Is Odin Sphere good? I've always heard mixed things about it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2021 22:05
|
|
|
Yeah it owns, at least the PS4/Vita version which is an insane improvement over the barely functional PS2 original.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2021 22:07
|
|
|
Odin Sphere is really good and Leifthrasir in particular is amazing. It really polishes the gameplay while also cutting out the dumb grinding and letting the game run at an acceptable framerate.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2021 22:15
|
|
|
One knock against odin sphere is you end up repeating content between characters a little too much. I still really liked it, though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2021 23:08
|
|
|
God, I need to just sit down and watch all the events in this game in order again and remember some things, like, christ, I need my own personal "Ah, yes, the events of That Day (x) Recall ( ) Not Now" event here. I am doing my best to try and get my head around what things happened in what order and who learned what when. Okay, let me see what I can piece together. Full spoilers. Okay, so, the loops. Let's call the final loop loop N. There's like five different layers of backstory in the game and some of them are awfully ambiguous to recall! We've got 2188 (that's easy), Loop N-2, Loop N-1, and finally loop N before the bit where the bulk of the playable story is (so, the invasions of 2105, 2065 and 2025). 300 or so loops go by "normally", wherein fifteen teenagers all get slaughtered by kaiju. Maybe some fuckery happens but if it does it's eventually annulled. In N-2 the UFO is discovered. Izumi-2, Morimura-2 but not Okino-2 back themselves up into Sector 0. This is the bit that Izumi-0 will eventually describe as "the famous scene where they teleport onto a bridge". I don't recall knowing anything else from N-2. At this point people start racking up Important Knowledge. In N-1 we've now got the -2 crew running around as the first Old Versions Of People. Izumi-2 now has his Gruff Juro appearance, Morimura-2 gets her catsuit. Izumi-2 decides to try and solve everything with violence, and eventually he's stopped by Morimura-2 and arrested, becoming 426. That all happens in 2105. We see Izumi-2 being interrogated by Future Onishi and meeting Okino-1 and Juro-1 (and, kinda, Morimura-1). Shortly afterwards N-1's 2105 is overrun by kaiju. Sooooo I guess at least some of these people survive? 426/Juro-2 needs at some point to start doing his own loving around with nanomachines and memories so he can eventually be interrogated about it? Meanwhile other stuff goes down, including in 2025 Ida-1 falling in love with Kisaragi-1. Is Ida from 2025? Is Ida-1 the one we know for most of the game? Does Ida-2 ever factor into anything? How did Ida-1 get clued into anything in particular? This is where my first point blank question comes up. Exactly when did the Sentinels start being a thing? Right now I have it in my head that at some point in N-1, someone invented the Type-98s we periodically hear about, and they were the bulk of the resistance in N-1, and the Sentinels were invented in N. I guess N-1 is when people fully discover the gates? At some point in N there's an offhand reference to "our friends without bodies". This seems to refer to an incident towards the end of N-1 where some of the kids were trying to shift between sectors and wound up in sector 0? Who exactly from the N-1 generation survived into N? Presumably Ida-1, who I guess has two different appearances in loop N (the "old Shu" look, and the "four-eyes" look). Izumi-2 is kicking around somewhere (I'm not sure what determines where someone ends up if they ride out a reset in sector 0, it seems like sometimes they wind up teleporting somewhere but Izumi-2 is stuck in sector 0 somehow until eventually being downloaded into an android for interrogation. Kisaragi-1 is around, she gets downloaded into her android body and winds up stuck in the computer 426 broke out of, and somehow winds up shifting into the command ship to become Miyuki Inaba. Miura-1 and Kurabe-1 are present as AIs. Whatever happened to Kurabe-1 anyway? Morimura-2 graduates from her catsuit look to her nurse look. I think that's all of the instances of looping AIs in loop N? For whatever reason, Ida-0 and Morimura-0 are moved from 2105 and renamed. So, the timeframes for the clone generation are: 2105: Izumi, Sekigahara, Okino 2065: Shinonome, Gouto (? Not sure about 2065 really) 2025: Yakushiji, Kisaragi 1985: Morimura (Iori Fuyusaka), Ida (Shu Amiguchi), Ogata, Minami, Takamiya 1945: Miura, Hijiyama, Kurabe So... at this point, the 2105 crew starts cranking out Sentinels. Who's responsible for this? Ida-1? Okino-0? When did Ida get roped into any of this? But they can't get operational in time and 2105 is lost, so they all shift to 2065 which is where the Sentinels first get properly used. But, by this point, Ida-1 has already gone through his arc re: trying to bring back Kisaragi-1, so he's fully into accelerationist mode and sets about loving everything up, and sets up Shinonome to set up Sekigahara with DD-426, which, I guess, he named after 426 for lulz? Izumi, Sekigahara, Shinonome and Okino all get memory-hosed. Gouto is piloting remote models so isn't affected, Okino technically gets obliterated but replaces himself with an AI to "survive". I feel like they all end up in 2025? Another question at this point: What's the deal with the Sentinel "generations"? Or the numbers, for that matter? As far as I remember the numbers all increment, so 1-9 are the remote models, 10-12 are 1st-gen, 13-15 are 2nd, 16-19 are 3rd and 20-23 are 4th. I'm guessing they were built in that order and the gens are incrementing every time there's a battle (so, 2105 was all 1st gens, then the 2nd gen was built in 2065, the 3rd in 1945, and the 4th in 1985), but this means there'd have to be a fair bit of swapping around? Gouto said he was piloting all the remote ones in the initial fight, Sekigahara always used a 1st gen, Izuki and Shinonome had 2nd gens from the start, Okino's 1st gen went to Hijiyama, so 2065 seems fine. I don't think any were built in 2025, so Izumi reused his and Yakushiji and Kisaragi weren't piloting yet. We see a 3rd-gen in the hangar in 1945, presumably that's Miura's, and Okino is in 1945, so I guess that's why there's a new gen during the war. I guess my question becomes why did all these 3rd and 4th gens get built, like, did anyone actually know who were all the compatibles? A lot of big deals were made of particular people being registered to particular Sentinels, so how did that all shake out? Morimura-2 eventually figures out more about compatibility (more than Izumi-2 knew, I guess?) and figures out that she was compatible in N-2 and now isn't. I still don't know exactly how any of them thought the metaphysics of this world work. Anyway, Morimura-2 clones herself and tries to implant her own memories onto the clone (? I think this is the provenance of child Chihiro?) and unknowingly pulls out the memories of 2188 Morimura into the baby. The baby is then placed in 1945 with Miura-0. By this point 426 has gotten lose in the android Ida built for Kisaragi-1, Kisaragi-1 is trapped in cyberspace and winds up on the satellite. Kurabe-1 just vanishes in 2065 I guess. Miura-1... right. What was Miura-1/BJ actually doing prior to anything? When was no. 17 built and who was piloting it, before? It's a 3rd-gen, so wasn't it from 1945? Did Miura-0 actually get to do any piloting in 1945 and I just blanked on it? How did 426 get to 1985? I can't go on... My head... feels like it's splitting... Please help
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2021 04:03
|
|
|
just keep playing, I promise
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2021 04:24
|
|
|
Or, well, keep replaying? The archives can help with getting a definitive timeline down since they add a lot more info to individual entries after you beat it the first time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2021 04:30
|
|
|
Full game spoilers: Some of your N-1 events are a little mixed up: -After the “famous bridge scene” in N-1, Izumi-2 and Morimura-2 assume that they’ve traveled back in time and that they can avert the kaiju crisis by stopping Shikishima, which they know to be the manufacturers of the kaiju. Together they commit terrorism(?) against Shikishima, and at some point are cornered by authorities. Izumi-2 stays behind so Morimura-2 can escape (this is from either Fuyusaka or Juro’s flashback). Izumi-2 is arrested and becomes known as Prisoner 426, leading to the stuff you mentioned. -Ida-1, who was like all his previous iterations born and raised in Sector 3 (2025), falls in love with Kisaragi-1. Iterations of Ida before this one don’t factor into the story. -After the N-1 kaiju attacks start, Izumi-2 escapes from prison, learns that the Compatibles have the key that draws in the kaiju (also about the nanomachines? Not too sure about this one), and decides the only way to stop the kaiju attack is to kill the kids. (The kids from some of the Sectors have already been gathered by Morimura-2 at some point before the attacks, meaning they know about the gates; not sure if Izumi-2 was involved) -Izumi-2 kills a bunch of the kids, including Izumi-1; Morimura-2 kills Izumi-2. Ida-1 is also shot by Izumi-2 but survives (Amiguchi flashback) -At this point (end of N-1) they’re fighting with the 98s—on “Judgement Day,” Morimura-2 and Ida-1 are still fighting the kaiju, and send Kisaragi-1, Miura-1 (BJ), Hijiyama-1, and Tamao-1 to safety in Sector 0. The latter group are attacked by kaiju during the transfer, preventing them from “respawning” like Izumi-2 and Morimura-2 did on the bridge. Their memories, however, are safely stored in Sector 0. Morimura-2 realizes that this Loop is hopeless, and sacrifices herself to send Ida-1 to Sector 0. Also in this scene Ida-1 mentions that the 98s aren’t that great at close combat and wishes they had better weapons (Amiguichi flashback) -Now we’re at Loop N. We get the bridge scene again but Izumi-2 has backed up himself to Sector 0 at some point and “respawns” someplace else, leaving Morimura-2 to respawn alone as a 16-year-old with memories of N-2 (her most recent “save state”) but no memories of N-1. Ida-1 respawns at that location with the 98 and explains what he knows to Morimura-2 (Amiguchi flashback) -Like you said, Ida-1 works with Morimura-2 on the Sentinels starting in Loop N; they also move their new “incarnations” to Sector 4 (1985, or whatever year it was) to be raised as Amiguchi and Fuyusaka. Ida-1 tells Morimura-2 that Izumi-2 is the one who killed the other kids—which isn’t true for the ones that got backed up to Sector 0—which leads to the scene you attributed to N-1, where Morimura-2 kills Izumi-2. -The kids who were backed up from N-1 but weren’t respawned (Kisaragi-1, Miura-1, Hijiyama-1, and Tamao-1) are “brought back” as AI to pilot the Sentinels in 2065. All but Hijiyama-1 appear in some form or another in the story. -Morimura-2 takes on the role of Morimura-sensei the school nurse; Ida-1 the role of creepy glasses man. Tamao-1 the AI is in the robot body Ida-1 built for her and appears briefly in Yakushiji’s story, but her body is taken over by Izumi-2 who has escaped from the lab. As for the clone timeframes: 2105: Izumi, Okino, [Morimura] 2065: Shinonome, Gouto, Sekigahara 2025: Yakushiji, Kisaragi, [Ida] 1985: Morimura (Iori Fuyusaka), Ida (Shu Amiguchi), Ogata, Minami, Takamiya 1945: Miura, Hijiyama, Kurabe
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2021 05:14
|
|
|
BTW, I’m further in AI: The Somnium Files and it’s getting better. My mistake was going down the “right branch” first, which is waaaaaaay more boring than the left one. My advice is that if you see two bird cages in an early dream puzzle, choose the left one first, not the right one with the balloons. That could have saved me like 5-7 hrs of being bored and annoyed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2021 22:41
|
|
|
JazzFlight posted:BTW, I’m further in AI: The Somnium Files and it’s getting better. My mistake was going down the “right branch” first, which is waaaaaaay more boring than the left one. My advice is that if you see two bird cages in an early dream puzzle, choose the left one first, not the right one with the balloons. Dang, I chose the one with the balloons!
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2021 22:52
|
|
|
There's so much dumb poo poo down the right path that I can't believe it even made it into the game. Some dumb poo poo: The whole QTE sequences where you're fending off hired mercenaries armed with machine guns by knocking a bra and panties or a porno mag to the ground so they get distracted. You do this in two separate scenes and it's supposed to be a logical way to solve the situation! And the main character is all horned up about it too.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2021 23:34
|
|
|
JazzFlight posted:There's so much dumb poo poo down the right path that I can't believe it even made it into the game. That's his super power and it owns, smh at not appreciating it
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2021 23:54
|
|
|
Regy Rusty posted:That's his super power and it owns, smh at not appreciating it Yeah, very weird to describe something that rules as a mark against the game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2021 00:30
|
|
|
CaptainRat posted:Yeah, very weird to describe something that rules as a mark against the game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2021 01:21
|
|
|
Okay so a little more of this (still everything spoilers). What's the deal with the dreams? Juro Kurabe aka Izumi-0 is dreaming all sorts of stuff. On reflection I can't remember if he himself ever dreams about the events of 2065 and 2025 in Loop N that he lost due to DD-426 (My recollection is that we learn most of that from seeing it from other characters' perspective). But it also makes sense that he's seeing events from past loops because he's being memoryfucked by 426 and now literally has N-2 Izumi's memories. Okay. Why are Iori Fuyusaka and Shu Amiguchi having dreams about past loops? They get up to all kinds of wild poo poo but they don't have people messing with their memories like Juro did. Fuyusaka has some poo poo going on due to 2188-Morimura wanting to download her memories into her clone, but that's 2188 Morimura not N-1 Morimura. N-1 Morimura was trying to experiment with compatibility and tried to put her memories in child-Chihiro, but that's not Fuyusaka. Shu doesn't have anything of the sort going on. I mean, I wouldn't have put it past N-1 Ida to just... put his own memories in Shu, but, did he? On a completely different subject, everyone remembers the great scene where Minami hides in a bathroom stall while the Kisaragi and Kurabe androids beat the poo poo out of eachother. I've got it in my head somehow (read somewhere?) that the reason 426 chased her in there in the first place was because at this point Minami had the key, and, well, a ton of stuff about the key seems to have been cut so maybe there's technically not an answer to some of this, but here we go anyway; how did 426 know about this? How did he track her? Okino spent ages trying to get this knowledge out of Ogata, but the reason Ogata was in that bind in the first place is because Okino figured out that Ogata had it - and, like, how did he know that, and why couldn't he have done the same thing to figure out Minami now had it? I guess the key was necessary for 426's big plan to hack the game. Okino wound up hiding in 1945 after the 2065 fuckup and used nanomachine fuckery to kinda sorta recover, from a certain perspective, from DD-426, and did brain surgery on Miura to protect him from it, which I think turned out to be unnecessary but probably a sensible precaution. He also put in something everyone refers to as "forced activation protocol" - what is that, exactly? What does it do and what's the point of it? It seems to be why, when Yakushiji shot Amiguchi with the nanomachines his Sentinel immediately appeared. Also, he put in some fuckery that makes it spread to anyone Miura touches. In Juro's prologue, 426 seems to consider that a problem for some reason. Why? Why was DD-426 named that?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2021 02:21
|
|
|
Shu is receiving his memories from Miyuki Inaba, iirc?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2021 02:31
|
|
|
DD-426 is called that as part of Ida's plan to frame 426, was my assumption.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2021 02:48
|
|
|
Fedule posted:Okay so a little more of this (still everything spoilers). I think that, since they were unable to get the info from Ryoko before her memory was erased, they couldn't remove DD-426 from the Sentinels. But Okino found a work around by developing some sort of vaccine and giving it to Miura through brain surgery and came up with some method where that vaccine would spread to other pilots when they came in contact with Miura. Without that, all of the pilots would have suffered from the effects of DD-426 and never could have succeeded in the final battle. So it did end up being important. I'm not too sure about what the point of the forced activation protocol was, though. I'm not sure what the DD part of DD-426 stands for, but I think the 426 was misdirection on Ida's part. He wanted Morimura and co to think that 426 was behind the virus, just like how he wanted Ei to get blamed for spreading it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2021 03:02
|
|
|
Fedule posted:Okay so a little more of this (still everything spoilers). Morimura did it with her medicine in an attempt to make a compatible version of herself and Ida. She's the one who's giving Juro 426's memories too, 426 says all he's doing is making them appear as movies so Juro's personality doesn't collapse from being unable to reconcile the memories from his current self.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2021 03:12
|
|
|
Droyer posted:Morimura did it with her medicine in an attempt to make a compatible version of herself and Ida. She's the one who's giving Juro 426's memories too, 426 says all he's doing is making them appear as movies so Juro's personality doesn't collapse from being unable to reconcile the memories from his current self. Yeah, afaik all the dreams come from nanomachine pills being given to the students by Morimura as a nurse (someone finds a list of each prescription at some point, although most of it meant nothing to them), meant to turn them into living non-AI versions of the N-2 cast. She was also trying to recreate Juro Izumi 426 because she's in love with him, iirc. Clarste fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Feb 14, 2021 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2021 04:41
|
|
|
Regy Rusty posted:That's his super power and it owns, smh at not appreciating it Worth it if you stick it out, but the dialogue is still way too padded, I’m speed reading it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2021 05:59
|
|
|
I love how, with 426, he's literally just trying to fix all this poo poo, his only problem is he's being an rear end in a top hat about it and every time you see him trying to do something right he's treated as a terrifying menace. I think even the scene of him gunning down the previous loop's kids gets a note in the Archives after you beat the game stating that his gun was set to Stun the entire time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2021 06:05
|
|
|
Xarbala posted:I love how, with 426, he's literally just trying to fix all this poo poo, his only problem is he's being an rear end in a top hat about it and every time you see him trying to do something right he's treated as a terrifying menace. I think even the scene of him gunning down the previous loop's kids gets a note in the Archives after you beat the game stating that his gun was set to Stun the entire time. It's so smart how he's presented, he's trying to help but he doesn't have enough information to truly get everything done and he's thwarted at every turn by Ida, who also doesn't have the full picture but has much more selfish and destructive aims.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2021 16:11
|
|
|
CaptainRat posted:It's so smart how he's presented, he's trying to help but he doesn't have enough information to truly get everything done and he's thwarted at every turn by Ida, who also doesn't have the full picture but has much more selfish and destructive aims. All of the members of the previous loops are trying to find success but they are just repeating the type of mistakes that caused everything to go to hell in the first place. Ida is manipulating everyone as he sees fit, thinking that if he just had that bit more control he would be able to get everything to work. 426 almost oozes lone badass energy which makes the idea of truly working anyone impossible. Both Morimura's keep everything hidden due to a mixture of conceit and shame making it almost impossible to fully understand the situation and do something about it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2021 18:36
|
|
|
The reveal of how 426's ultimate plan with Megumi was to unlock the game's RPG mechanics was absolutely incredible. One of my favorite reveals in gaming.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2021 19:02
|
|
|
Still a few more recipes left to do, this one was funCharlieFoxtrot posted:13 Sentinels foodposting continues...
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2021 05:27
|
|
|
Okay here's a different thing from my re-watch (more full spoilers): So everyone other than the clones is an AI managed by Universal Control, and "managed" here refers to a very particular set of ongoing maintenance processes that have some weird implications which account for a lot of inconsistencies. In particular, there's a lot of specific rules like "strictly one version of any person per sector", and a lot of broad exceptions, mostly that it can't manage the clones the same way it can manage the AIs. If UC creates an inconsistency, its AIs can be directed to ignore it, but the clones will notice. Like, the deal with Miwako Sawatari's detour into Sector 3; we, through the eyes of one of the clones, see her get caught up in a shift with Kisaragi and Ogata but then the group shifts back to Sector 2 and she seems to be left behind, but then is still present in Sector 2 with no memory of the incident. It's unclear to me exactly what the specifics are, but at some point a little later than immediately after the shift to Sector 3 UC kicked in and noticed the 1985 Sawatari had disappeared and brought her back (we "know" she did actually disappear for a bit, because Fuyusaka commented on it as it happened). Maybe she rematerialised in her house and had a memory-writeover, or maybe she actually remained where she was but UC just hid her from Fuyusaka in particular to maintain continuity. Either way, she remained there, with a forked version moving to Sector 3. When the group shifted back, the fork left Sector 3 but was deleted from Sector 2 because there was already one of her there and that's an error. (in typical 13 Sentinels fashion, Shinonome and Sekigahara try their best to "explain" Sawatari's disappearance after the shift to Kisaragi and Ogata, but between them manage to misinterpret it into "she [Sawatari] was an inconvenience to Universal Control, and knew too much".) I guess Universal Control also doesn't fully know what to do with the clones who looped through Sector 0. They're AIs, but they're independent of Universal Control, although they register in the system as their correct identities, I guess? As far as I know, Universal Control can't mess with loopers any more than it can mess with clones. They can theoretically still cause conflicts, but the scope for seeing it in the game is limited - it's only possible if someone involved is an older version of a clone in accordance with chronology. It's a little sad we didn't see more of this for Maximum Plot Confusion but oh well; the only example we actually encounter is Tamao Kurabe, whose clone lives in 1945 as a teenager but also needs to be a 55-year-old in 1985, so an AI fills in. There's an AI Kurabe kicking around (Number 18) who shifted from Loop N-1, which creates a conflict in Sector 2, but UC can't delete Number 18, so instead it deletes Granny Kurabe. This is remarkably seamless because none of the clones except Minami even know Granny. I think the exact events that then followed were, Kurabe essentially adopted Juro in his new persona and included in his memory package the detail that Granny was travelling abroad and that he was now living alone in her house. I guess Minami just rolled with the idea that Granny's grandson moved in one day and started school nearby, it's not that wild a story, and it probably wouldn't have occurred to Minami to question why she'd never heard of Juro before. (since we spend most of the time in 1985, and the future sectors are destroyed already, it makes sense we wouldn't see previous versions of future clones, though one wonders why there weren't older versions of Miura and Hijiyama kicking around somewhere. Maybe they died in the war?) So, with all that in mind, what's then the deal with Miyuki Inaba? She's Kisaragi, with whom UC has never had a problem. But now she's having to do some vaguely qualified hacking in order to show up in the simulation at all, which seems inconsistent with how Kurabe is treated. I think the explanation we're supposed to have is that because Inaba somehow managed to get shifted to the command satellite, she actually registers as an external entity. I guess we're supposed to take it as a convenient contrivance that she was able to end up on the satellite, like, I dunno that's figuratively and literally quite a leap but given that the satellite is supposed to oversee the progress of the surface facilities and the D-code as written by 2188-Shinonome relies on reading from the satellite I suppose we can infer that there's a link of some kind between them and that whatever exactly happened on Judgement Day N-1 caused a glitch or overflow or something that justified some plot magic. So then she just... what, exactly? Used the command satellite to [a passing truck blares its horn] broadcast [a comically loud telephone rings] singing [sound of cats screeching] to talk to Amiguchi. Does this all happen after the one scene in the UFO where Kisaragi swipes a floating panel and winds up talking to her? I can only watch so many of these events at a time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 04:43
|
|
|
Fedule posted:So, with all that in mind, what's then the deal with Miyuki Inaba? She's Kisaragi, with whom UC has never had a problem. But now she's having to do some vaguely qualified hacking in order to show up in the simulation at all, which seems inconsistent with how Kurabe is treated. I think the explanation we're supposed to have is that because Inaba somehow managed to get shifted to the command satellite, she actually registers as an external entity. I guess we're supposed to take it as a convenient contrivance that she was able to end up on the satellite, like, I dunno that's figuratively and literally quite a leap but given that the satellite is supposed to oversee the progress of the surface facilities and the D-code as written by 2188-Shinonome relies on reading from the satellite I suppose we can infer that there's a link of some kind between them and that whatever exactly happened on Judgement Day N-1 caused a glitch or overflow or something that justified some plot magic. So then she just... what, exactly? Used the command satellite to [a passing truck blares its horn] broadcast [a comically loud telephone rings] singing [sound of cats screeching] to talk to Amiguchi. Does this all happen after the one scene in the UFO where Kisaragi swipes a floating panel and winds up talking to her? I can only watch so many of these events at a time. (Very much postgame spoilers here) I think 1-Loop-Ago Tomi, aka Tomi AI, aka Miyuki Inaba, somehow ended up on the command ship servers after the disaster in 2064, for...reasons [?] and the tech is advanced enough that it just kinda incorporated her. So her data just ended up on the ship computers instead of the facility computers. She spends a while trying to talk to Amiguchi by way of what sounds like a complicated attempt to basically find the correct files in the sim from outside the sim, though I'm kinda unsure why him (my guess would be familiarity with whatever unique software is running on his nanomachines), and then every time she shows up later in the timeline is later for her, too. I don't have her timeline in front of me,so idk if Tomi talks to her first, but it should be in the event archive? I think Miyuki Inaba's timeline is one of the options in the expanded postgame potential selection. She spends the game, after being shot out of the simulation server post-2064 battle, presumably thereby realizing the world is a lie, chatting either with Shu, to direct him to do stuff, to Juro Izumi/Shiba/Fluffy, via the TV broadcasts that he keeps watching (to iron out the big plan, between the two of them, to escape the sim,) and to other characters as they contact her.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 07:49
|
|
|
EDIT: Oops, missed that there were more pages, accidentally wrote a reply to something from the bottom of a previous page. Ignore me. I am one of the biggest hype-men of the Zero Escape series you'll ever meet, and yeah, I found Somnium Files to be mostly just.... fine. It's ok. Very hit-and-miss. As for "Is there anything like 13 Sentinels": No, not to my knowledge there isn't. I don't think Somnium Files is much anything like it, and Odin Sphere certainly isn't, beyond having been made by the same developer and sporting a more primitive (but still breathtakingly gorgeous) version of the same art style. Odin Sphere is good though! It's hella fun, as long as you're playing Leifthrasir and not the PS2 original.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 11:30
|
|
|
Jen X posted:(Very much postgame spoilers here) Inaba went to Amiguchi because she trusts him the most out of all the kids due to her relationship with Ida, and i'm pretty sure all of her appearances are chronological (at least once she assumes the guise of Miyuki Inaba). I think she only makes appearances in Amiguchi's route and right at the end of Tomi's which is directly after Amiguchi's final scene. I also, don't think she was working with 426. 426 had his hands in a lot of stuff but I don't think they were ever in contact.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 11:44
|
|
|
Jen X posted:(Very much postgame spoilers here) (yep still everything spoilers) Right, I'm forever mixing up Judgement Day N-1 with the battle of 2065 and it annoys me every time I do it. (Something I really wish could be changed in-game is to expand the chronological event screen to not only include events we see from a given time, but also logs and recordings that are flashed back to from the future in their correct times. We see a ton of 2188 stuff but there are only a handful of 2188 events in the timeline, because every other thing is shown as someone playing back a log file inline.) So, the deal was, in Judgement Day N-1, while Morimura N-2 and Ida N-1 were trying to fend off the Deimos using the Type-98s (and failing due to being overwhelmed at close quarters, thus directly inspiring the G1 Sentinels), there was an attempt to evacuate the other clones to Sector 0, but they were killed by an explosion before fully shifting so although they were backed up, Universal Control registered them as dead and they didn't reincarnate. These are "our friends without bodies". As far as is ever mentioned in the game these are Kisaragi, Miura, and Kurabe, all N-1 incarnations I suspect there was another but I can't figure out who it is. Ida N-1 gets sent back to Sumire Bridge 2089 and encounters - christ this is convoluted - Morimura N-2 v2, who appears there alone because Izumi N-2 was also killed during N-1 (but has also backed himself up), and fills her in on everything from N-1. Except, he also apparently tells her a bunch of lies, including apparently that the friends-without-bodies were Izumi N-2's fault, which was I guess plausible because Izumi N-2 killed a bunch of the other N-1 clones. Then, both of them decide to move their N clones to Sector 4? I don't know how they arranged this or exactly why. So in Loop N, Ida N-1, Morimura N-2 v2 and I guess Okino N all meet up in Sector 1 and get to work repurposing the global factory network to build Sentinels (and this is also when the android bodies for Kisaragi and Kurabe were made). I'm a little confused about the exact extent of the factories and what's actually dependent on them, but here goes. There aren't, technically, actually any factories in the simulation, because they're all in other countries, which don't exist, but Universal Control maintains the pretense and lets people submit designs and eventually receive their stuff back. Lots of characters seem to be under the impression that the factories are what's creating the Deimos but as I understand it this isn't actually true - they're just being spawned in by game logic. In any case, eventually the factories are repurposed to build Sentinels, which are designed to maintain connections between their users and the gates, which they use to shift and also to allow the pilot to shift out of the simulation into the "cockpit". Each Sentinel is basically just a server. This brings me to... the Sentinel generations. I think these are kind of a misnomer? I was under the impression for ages that there were a couple new Sentinels built for each of the final battles based on lessons learned from the last (there was no real battle in Sector 1, so, four sectors, four generations, and we're outright told in-game that the 4Gs were used for the first time in the final final battle), but I guess G1-3 must have been pretty much in place before the battle of 2065. I guess they were just all made and numbered in order and periodically Ida N-1 or Okino just had a brainwave and thought like, what if we actually put some guns on it and changed the plans? (Sidebar: at one point Amiguchi says "the first-gens went in on raw power over mobility", which seems to be completely mistaken? The G1s are the fastest Sentinels in the game, and have attacks with the farthest setup-movement and the shortest cooldowns, and they can loving jump, like, come on?) So in Sector 2 the pilot squad consists of Izumi and Okino from Sector 1, Gouto, Shinonome, and Sekigahara from Sector 2, and Kisaragi N-1, Kurabe N-1 and Miura N-1. Before the battle, Ida N-1 convinces Shinonome to spike everyone with DD-426 because hes upset that Kisaragi N-1 put him in the "let's not kill another incarnation of me and steal her body" zone, because apparently this is the most convenient way he has to force a loop to happen. Okay... we can tabulate this. In the battle of 2065... Sentinels #1-11 are G1 and are piloted remotely by Gouto. Later, #10 and #11 will be transferred, I guess? #12 G1 is piloted by Okino. It is force-shifted to Sector 5 and dumped in the ocean and transferred to Hijiyama. #13 G2 is piloted by Sekigahara. It is force-shifted to Sector 4 and transferred to Juro Kurabe ("Why are you in Sekigahara's Sentinel?") #14 G2 is piloted by Shinonome. It is force-shifted to Sector 2. #15 G2 is piloted by Izumi. It is force-shifted to Sector 3 where Izumi encounters Kisaragi and Yakushiji. Later it is transferred to Iori Fuyusaka. #16 G3 is piloted by Kisaragi N-1. It is force-shifted outside the simulation entirely. Kisaragi N-1 shifts into the command satellite and becomes Inaba. Kisaragi N calls it back. #17 G3 is piloted by Miura N-1, who escapes into a scout drone before the Sentinel is force-shifted, uh, somewhere. It's later transferred to Minami. #18 G3 is piloted by Kurabe N-1. It is never seen again, but somehow Kurabe N-1 winds up in Sector 4 in her android body anyway. #19 G3 is piloted by... who? It must be the fourth N-1 escapee? I guess it's force-shifted to Sector 5 and given to Miura, but I'm not sure how. What happened to the pilot? E: I guess by process of elimination if there's a 4th N-1 escapee it has to be either Takamiya, Ogata, Hijiyama, Minami, or Gouto, those being the people we don't see either looping somehow, definitively accounted for somewhere or killed by Izumi N-2. I want to say Okino had already designed the G4s before the battle and possibly even made some but never got around to putting anyone in them, leading to the given lineup for Sector 2. Sector 3 was then defended by Izumi and #15 alone, which didn't end well, and Sector 5 was more or less a wipe. What I'm not really clear about at this point is what was the deal with all the swapping Sentinels? Notably, Juro Kurabe, Fuyusaka, and Ogata all got Magical Gun'd at some point so I guess some fuckery is to be expected, but I don't know if the assignments that result from that work in any particular way. Gouto, Amiguchi, Takamiya and Yakushiji herself wind up being given the spare G4s, which I guess tracks, but I don't know how exactly any of the other transfers happened. Also, the game makes a real big point of showing that when Minami got shot in the one bathroom it was very particularly #17 and I don't know why. E: Some day I'm going to write a doc that's just, like, look, here is the plot, of this game, all of it, just for catharsis. Fedule fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Feb 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 15:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 22:45 |
|
|
Status report: I'm at like 70% with most characters barring the ones i can't be due to locks, and just finished up the second area in Destruction. Generally I've been having a pretty easy go of the battles but the last two fights of area 2 tested me a little. Still getting S-ranks and bonus objectives across the board but if those last two fights are a taste of things to come I might have to start thinking about loadouts and team comp soon. Overall I am still very glad I got peer-pressured into trying this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 19:05
|
|
