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Fedule posted:(yep still everything spoilers) Mostly right, but I think Izumi stayed in 13 and Iori was the one Gouto asked about being in Sekigahara’s sentinel. Number 17 also got sent to the command satellite, per BJ. Number 19 was piloted by Hijiyama’s AI who was cut from the game for unspecified reasons.
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Feb 22, 2021 19:21
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Jen X posted:Mostly right, but I think Izumi stayed in 13 and Iori was the one Gouto asked about being in Sekigahara’s sentinel. Number 17 also got sent to the command satellite, per BJ. Number 19 was piloted by Hijiyama’s AI who was cut from the game for unspecified reasons. You both have it backwards. Gouto asks Sekigahara why he's in Okino's sentinel. Sekigahara couldn't have been in the 2065 battle, he was born and raised in the 1930s/40s and first learned of the sentinels when Okino took them there.
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Feb 22, 2021 19:28
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Sentinel swapping: The Sentinel transfers happen mostly for character reasons. Hijiyama gets Okino's Sentinal (#12) when he dies because they're close. Ei gives his Sentinal (#15) to Iori because he thinks she's a better person than him and will make better use of it. B.J. (A.I. Miura from 1 loop ago) gives his (#17) to Natsuno because of the bond he developed with her. Miura from current loop gets A.I. Hijiyama from 1 loop ago's Sentinel (#19) because A.I. Hijiyama died during or shortly after the Sector 2 (2065) attack and Miura trained with it in Sector 5 (1945). Megumi, Yuki, and Shu all get shiny new Generation 4 models because they weren't present during the Sector 2 attack. Gouto also gets a Gen 4 I guess since most of the remote controlled models he used in Sector 2 were lost (the bit that's not directly addressed is why he doesn't pilot 10 or 11 but I'll chalk this up to him being the boss man and wanting the latest model). Nenji gets #10 without any real explanation but presumably because Gen 1 suits him best. And Ei is the last character to finally decide to participate in the Sector 4 (1985) fight so he gets the one remaining, #11.Droyer posted:You both have it backwards. Gouto asks Sekigahara why he's in Okino's sentinel. Sekigahara couldn't have been in the 2065 battle, he was born and raised in the 1930s/40s and first learned of the sentinels when Okino took them there. arteliad fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Feb 22, 2021 |
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Feb 22, 2021 20:16
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arteliad posted:Sentinel swapping: The Sentinel transfers happen mostly for character reasons. Hijiyama gets Okino's Sentinal (#12) when he dies because they're close. Ei gives his Sentinal (#15) to Iori because he thinks she's a better person than him and will make better use of it. B.J. (A.I. Miura from 1 loop ago) gives his (#17) to Natsuno because of the bond he developed with her. Miura from current loop gets A.I. Hijiyama from 1 loop ago's Sentinel (#19) because A.I. Hijiyama died during or shortly after the Sector 2 (2065) attack and Miura trained with it in Sector 5 (1945). Megumi, Yuki, and Shu all get shiny new Generation 4 models because they weren't present during the Sector 2 attack. Gouto also gets a Gen 4 I guess since most of the remote controlled models he used in Sector 2 were lost (the bit that's not directly addressed is why he doesn't pilot 10 or 11 but I'll chalk this up to him being the boss man and wanting the latest model). Nenji gets #10 without any real explanation but presumably because Gen 1 suits him best. And Ei is the last character to finally decide to participate in the Sector 4 (1985) fight so he gets the one remaining, #11. so i am. whoops
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Feb 22, 2021 20:42
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I find it funny that a bunch of characters have these big sentimental or inspiring moments at the ends of their stories when they get their Sentinels. And Ogata meanwhile is just, I guess I’ll have this one. Punch punch punch. Man, this is a real good game. Like a great mystery box tv show, except you can watch the episodes in any order and it still works. The tower defence stuff is actually fun too. Gen3 4 lyfe.
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Feb 22, 2021 21:02
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I’ve been playing through this game and I think I’m now pretty far in but man I love it. I wish I had somewhere to talk about the spoilers because of the weird format. Like I think the story changed what I thought it was about a good 5 times One thing that does get messy with all the protags is they don’t always know which one you’ll see a twist in first - so sometimes it is structured like you get a tiny piece of info and need to see multiple scenes, sometimes you end up with one character giving a MASSIVE twist and then another character also acting like it’s a massive twist when you find it
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Feb 22, 2021 22:31
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Okay, so, continuing with the full game spoilers I'm pretty satisfied that the fourth Loop N-1 escapee is Hijiyama, although this is drat near absolutely never explicitly clarified anywhere in-game. We never see N-1 Hijiyama at any point, he doesn't get a section in the chronology, he's only ever alluded to. To wit, in one of the earliest scenes in the game, BJ aka Miura N-1 says to Minami of Sentinel #19, that it was piloted by "a comrade". Now this is pretty open to interpretation, but Miura and Hijiyama are pretty closely bound in that respect. Neither Hijiyama N nor Miura N would have been at 2065, so if this is referring to Hijiyama it has to be the N-1 flavour. This does, however, raise the question of where the hell Hijiyama N-1 (or whoever the hell else was in #19 in 2065) went after the force-shift. Is it possible he died in the Sentinel due to not being able to shift out? All the other AIs shifted themselves into something else; Kisaragi N-1 wound up in the command satellite, Miura N-1 in a scout unit, and Kurabe N-1 in her android (? right? Is there ever any more detail about how Kurabe N-1's android body ended up in 1985?), so maybe #19 just didn't get out? Is this ever stated anywhere? Anyway here's the actual 2065 roster I guess: #1-11 G1 and are piloted remotely by Gouto. Later, #10 and #11 are transferred to Ogata and Sekigahara for pretty much reasons of default. #12 G1 is piloted by Okino. It is force-shifted to Sector 5 and dumped in the ocean and transferred to Hijiyama. #13 G2 is piloted by Izumi. It is force-shifted to Sector 3 and takes part in the battle there before being again shifted to Sector 4. #14 G2 is piloted by Shinonome. It is force-shifted to Sector 4. #15 G2 is piloted by Sekigahara. It is force-shifted to Sector 1, which is where Sekigahara meets 426 in the Kisaragi android body. Later given to Fuyusaka. #16 G3 is piloted by Kisaragi N-1. It is force-shifted to the command satellite. Kisaragi N-1 shifts out and becomes Inaba. Kisaragi N calls it back. #17 G3 is piloted by Miura N-1, who escapes into a scout drone before the Sentinel is force-shifted into the command satellite. It's later given to Minami who calls it back.. #18 G3 is piloted by Kurabe N-1. It is never seen again, but somehow Kurabe N-1 winds up in Sector 4 in her android body anyway. #19 G3 is piloted by Hijiyama N-1. It force-shifted to Sector 5 and given to Miura. Hijiyama N-1 died on the way back to his home sector. #20-23 G4 don't exist yet but are later given to Amiguchi, Takamiya, Gouto and Yakushiji I guess a Sentinel is, like I said a bit before, really just a program which happens to periodically cause a giant robot to be present somewhere in the simulation, so maybe it's not such an implausible idea that two of them could have shifted outside the simulation entirely.
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Feb 23, 2021 00:54
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Fedule posted:Okay, so, continuing with the full game spoilers In interviews, George Kamitani (the guy who wrote/directed the game) clarified that it was indeed Hijiyama N-1, and a scene of him dying and giving the sentinel to Miura was cut in development. Same goes for pretty much everything about Tamao, and, I believe, a hypothetical Okino route. Tamao Kurabe (N-1) was given an android body by Ida; idk when she showed up exactly, but it was prior to Juro's arrival, since she's the reason he became Juro Kurabe and not a copy of 426 as Morimura wanted. Her arrival prompted Universal Control to delete the NPC older-self version of her that was hanging out in 1985.
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Feb 23, 2021 03:53
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Identity of someone never seen: There is one line in the game referencing Hijiyama N-1. It's when Ida is talking to Tomi N-1 about installing the A.I. people into Gen 3 Sentinels. He tells her that Miura and Hijiyama are the natural candidates because they grew up in a wartorn era (he's trying to convince her not to pilot a Sentinel, but she insists on it).
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Feb 23, 2021 06:12
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Ok so I'm still playing the game but it feels like I'm starting to wrap things up - I have a bunch of characters cleared and the only real blocker left is the 2 characters that need 8/12 characters cleared to access and I'm going through and seeing all the plots Some thoughts - Plot works much much better when you do a little of everyone. As soon as I started clearing characters they answer so much, which is good! But also means I go into the next character thinking "oh wait none of this is right lol" - I know everyone says it but man the twists on twists on twists. It's awesome. I thought the story was about one thing and it's about something entirely different multiple times. Predictions as I near the end, I think I'll finish up in the next several days and will come back and check on this So I'm already aware of time travel being fake, and the sectors are just physical locations, and 2188 was in the past. What I think: -Nobody is alive. They're all data. Not a huge reach at this point because I've already found from one of the routes that Morimara is data but can interact with the others. This would explain why they can "teleport", all they're doing is moving around to another server or whatever. When the Kaiju attack people disappear for that reason too. Early on the game tries to point you in the direction of them being clones but I think they are clones in personality only -"Piloting" a Sentinel is uploading yourself to the device same way an android can be "piloted" by an old personality. It messes up who you are because the sentinels already seem to have personalities in some cases like in a Juro situation -"Project Aegis" was hinted at ending the world; it's basically deleting the computer you exist on I'm guessing? The "time travel" of past memories is just the computer resetting the simulation and shutting down the computer will kill everyone
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Feb 23, 2021 11:07
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Oh god I cleared the prologue what is happening
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Feb 23, 2021 23:10
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goblin week posted:Oh god I cleared the prologue what is happening Welcome.
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Feb 23, 2021 23:22
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goblin week posted:Oh god I cleared the prologue what is happening Enjoy the ride!
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Feb 23, 2021 23:40
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Further a bit more and an absolute shot in the dark: Miura’s early prologue(with self-replicators) and his origins in the past makes me think that this is some sort Cloud Atlas scenario on infinite earths e: also his name makes me think of Berserk goblin week fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Feb 24, 2021 |
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Feb 24, 2021 01:24
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Okay, time for today's round of plot understanding. Guess what? It's still Every Spoilers. Exactly who knew, to what extent, and when, the Awful Truth about the fifteen clones in each loop being the only real humans, and the implications of that? I say "when" very pointedly, because I have a suspicion that due to the events of Judgement Day N-1, Morimura N-2 knew, but Morimura N-2 v2 didn't, and Ida N-1 didn't see fit to fill her in. Their actions during Loop N-1 seem to suggest that they knew at least something about what made those fifteen kids in particular special, especially since Izumi N-2 decided to try and kill them all "to escape from this eternal cage", but they can't have known everything because then they'd have known that wouldn't work. At the same time, Morimura doing her clone compatibility experiment makes no sense if she knows very much about any of this, she should know how compatibility works and why she doesn't have it anymore. It's my understanding that the Compatible ones are the only ones who can control the gates and make shifts happen, although anyone can be shifted if they then stand in the gate after that point. This of course means that Morimura N-2 v2, Izumi N-2 and Ida N-1 can't shift around at will, which is consistent with what we see (Morimura N-2 v2 and Ida N-1 spend most of their time in Loop N in Sector 1 with all the tech they need to work and eventually recruit Okino, while Izumi N-2 is largely stuck until Sekigahara gets force shifted to Sector 1 after the battle of 2065 and they strike a deal to go to Sector 4. So... how can BJ/Miura N-1 shift? Is it specifically because he's in a Sentinel scout unit? On further reflection, every time we see BJ shift, he's got one of the protagonists with him; does he just need one of them to be nearby? The mystery file for the gates says they're available for use because "Morimura" brought them online. Is this referring to something that happens every loop (which seems like it always requires the current loop's Morimura), or have the gates always been fully available since the end of Loop N-2 when the UFO was discovered for the first time? So anyway, Izumi N-2 was probably the first to put everything together, down to the "ancient civilisation" building the Deimos and fact that the simulation was part copied out of a video game. That presumably came together at some point in Loop N while he was holed up in Sector 1. Also. Scouring through the archives again I note something that completely conflicts with what I thought happened at the N-1 -> N transition. I thought that, since Morimura N-2 was alive but didn't loop and since Izumi N-2 was dead but had been backed up, that Izumi was stuck in Sector 0 while Morimura N-2 was brought back as v2 on Sumire Bridge 2089 as before, where she was then met by Ida N-1 who had just shifted out of Judgement Day N-1, and Izumi N-2 only resurfaced later when Ida N-1 started interrogating him in the android lab. But, in 2100, Ida N-1 says to 426; "It's been three years since you died" (He goes on to say "next year, we enter the 22nd century", even though the date is given as 2100, not 2099. Oops! E: In the same scene, he accuses 426 of killing Kisaragi N-1, which is... nuts? Okay, he's telling everyone that lately, but he and 426 are the only people who would know for certain it isn't true, and we know Ida N-1 himself doesn't actually believe it because when Morimura N-2 v2 finally learns the truth and confronts him over it he immediately retreats into "well he totally would've killed them", so what the hell is going on here?). Cracking open the event logs there is indeed an event in Loop N 2097, in which Morimura N-2 v2 confronts Izumi N-2 (who is very much alive and in his body) on Sumire Bridge. He says to her, among other things, "we did find the truth" (see again my opening question). She believes Ida N-1's lie that he killed the N-1 Judgement Day evacuees (it seems she believes the four of them "came with him" and he killed them during Loop N). She then kills him. How is he here, with his body? It seems to go against everything I thought I understood about how Sector 0 works (IE, you can put your data there, and then if you're alive when the reset happens you get reincarnated, which is why the Judgement Day evacuees got stuck). Like, Izumi N-2 was dead, Morimura N-2 killed him, he cannot have done the same kind of Sector 0 shift we talk about. If he got brought back despite being dead, why didn't he reincarnate alongside Morimura N-2 and Ida N-1? I must be missing something about exactly how this backup business works that accounts for why Izumi N-2 was brought back despite being dead but also why the evacuees weren't brought back apparently because of being dead. Also, what was Izumi N-2 doing in Loop N from 2089-2097? Okino had to have some kind of a WTF moment the first time he shifted into a Sentinel and discovered it had a cockpit he didn't design and that it vaporised his clothes. This is of course the secret reason for the teenage robot nudity the writers held back to make us ashamed of our words and deeds, and I mean, drat if this wasn't a great execution of that one, but also you have to wonder how more wasn't made of it, like, between that and everything Morimura N-2 v2 and Ida N-1 knew (even if Ida was holding most of it back) should have caused some serious penny-dropping re The Truth. I don't like the idea but maybe we just have to chalk this one up to creative license? Fedule fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Feb 24, 2021 |
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Feb 24, 2021 01:55
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Fedule posted:How is he here, with his body? It seems to go against everything I thought I understood about how Sector 0 works (IE, you can put your data there, and then if you're alive when the reset happens you get reincarnated, which is why the Judgement Day evacuees got stuck). Like, Izumi N-2 was dead, Morimura N-2 killed him, he cannot have done the same kind of Sector 0 shift we talk about. If he got brought back despite being dead, why didn't he reincarnate alongside Morimura N-2 and Ida N-1? I must be missing something about exactly how this backup business works that accounts for why Izumi N-2 was brought back despite being dead but also why the evacuees weren't brought back apparently because of being dead. Think of "shifting to sector 0" as saving the game, except the data being saved is, well, a person's general psyche and characteristics; presumably, it also includes positional data, for where they get spawned in at the start of a new loop. At some point in Loop N-1, Juro N-2, as an adult, before Morimura N-2 shot him, saved his adult data to Sector 0. The 4 kids tried to do so, but they died while saving (like...removing the game cartridge mid-save), so the data got corrupted/was incomplete, and they only existed as data in the new loop (to be made into AIs) rather than possessing bodies. Morimura, of course, never saved her adult data, so she spawned back in as a 16-year old instead of her adult self. As for what he was doing...no clue, but presumably it involved a lot of research of whatever data he could find on, well, everything.
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Feb 24, 2021 06:55
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goblin week posted:Further a bit more and an absolute shot in the dark: Miura’s early prologue(with self-replicators) and his origins in the past makes me think that this is some sort Cloud Atlas scenario on infinite earths  Please keep posting your impressions as you go through the game.
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Feb 24, 2021 12:31
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https://twitter.com/SoushinSen/status/1364580116777598982?s=19
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Feb 24, 2021 15:24
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I never really liked the Stats System in 13 Sentinels. It's weird, right? It's never made particularly clear exactly how any of the numbers on that screen affect anything, beyond HP and EP obviously, and it's silly expensive to raise stats compared to upgrading armaments, and I don't think there's much point to it (unless some very weird stuff happens a couple thousand waves into Sumire Ward?). I think everybody knows that adding 2 levels to Neuralink gets you an extra battle on the BOL meter but I don't think there's a lot of knowledge about any of it besides to do those two levels and otherwise that there's no real point until you've unlocked everything else and are just playing for fun. Like, how does Atk work? Does it change the base damage of stuff from what's shown on the armanents menu? How does Acc work? Games should explain things! (I have had, kicking around in my head for months now, a bunch of ideas - fantasies, really - about a sort of conversion mod for the Destruction half of the game, which completely overhauls how basically all of the menus, meters, stats, armamants, meta-abilities, status effects, and progression works, and a big part of it is just to have some separation and clarity on what all this stuff is doing, the actual worth and consequence of upgrades and skills, that kind of stuff. Maybe I'll post it someday. Ah, the life of an Ideas Guy...)
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Feb 24, 2021 15:43
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Random thoughts, I have no idea what’s a spoiler lol: - There so far hasn’t been anyone who’d appear in 2064 natively except for BJ who’s a robot, which seems odd in a story seemingly about a Death Future. Though I suppose we know that they get better? - Yuka rules. Is the SIU guy the cat?? I have a hearing impairment which makes me very bad with voice recognition. - Sekigahara’s story so far makes me think that time travel isn’t real at all? Like the variants of people seem a bit too... comfy in the future and various pasts. But also the girls from Miura’s prologue are Morimura and Juro’s grandma? Hrm e: lol what is this Madoka-rear end scheme I might have missed something some sort of signposting about a time change in that segment because it feels like Yakushiji went from shooting a guy in the name of Juro to cradling Juro in her arms as he laid dying but she didn’g know the guy that popped up? goblin week fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Feb 24, 2021 |
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Feb 24, 2021 20:28
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Lol your edit mirrors my exact reaction.
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Feb 24, 2021 20:53
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Ryoko destroying the world... terraforming... project ark... sectors mentioned as a thing in Destruction and Yakushiji’s story... this all makes it sound like the timezones are some sort of bubble worlds? Agh. e: Okino called Iori „Morimura” in the dream but also I rememebr them being in the same room together! Also the UFO got larger? It feels like something only tangentially relevant lol e2: AI???????? goblin week fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Feb 24, 2021 |
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Feb 24, 2021 21:21
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Well I just beat the game. That certainly took some turns
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Feb 24, 2021 22:12
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Ok so I'm still playing the game but it feels like I'm starting to wrap things up - I have a bunch of characters cleared and the only real blocker left is the 2 characters that need 8/12 characters cleared to access and I'm going through and seeing all the plots I wasn’t wildly off but I missed some very important points with this
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Feb 24, 2021 22:15
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I wasn’t wildly off but I missed some very important points with this Yup, by the time you reach the 80% average point you've got the majority of the big picture so it's not unreasonable to call most of it by then. I will say, I love how the majority of the reveals in this game boil down to oh, did you think this was a soft science-fiction romp? Wrong! The sci-fi is hard as a motherfucker and we're in Asimov's neighborhood now. It's why nothing really feels like bullshit or that anything's pulled out of the writers' rear end or arbitrarily made up. The situation is about as realistic as you can get so long as you accept the premise of Von Neumann probes both existing and being used to seed a universe-wide terraforming and colonization project utilizing stored records of human DNA to recreate a once-extinct species.
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Feb 24, 2021 22:27
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...is Ei BJ??
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Feb 24, 2021 22:35
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goblin week posted:...is Ei BJ?? You probably shouldn't even click this till you've already got confirmation, but I just wanted to comment on it anyway: No, but not a bad guess considering they're bros.
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Feb 24, 2021 22:48
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Hello thread, I've just finished the third (I think) prologue and so far I think I've figured out yakisoba pan is the main character correct? This game is already wild.
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Feb 25, 2021 00:52
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Kingtheninja posted:Hello thread, I've just finished the third (I think) prologue and so far I think I've figured out yakisoba pan is the main character correct? Hemborger, actually, but close!
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Feb 25, 2021 01:09
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Crepes damnit.
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Feb 25, 2021 02:21
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TheCenturion posted:Crepes damnit. I'm gonna make these this weekend
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Feb 25, 2021 07:31
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goblin week posted:Oh god I cleared the prologue what is happening 
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Feb 25, 2021 07:37
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https://twitter.com/RedBardIsCool/status/1364797361470525440?s=19
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Feb 25, 2021 18:08
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Moving on from everyone being in the 20 percentages. Miura: Him explicitly saying "maybe i haven't actually travelled through time" feels like a big blow to my theory that maybe there's no time travel lol. Plus Erika now, being Tamao then and also in the future, means that non-protagonists can also time travel instead of aging... which means Fuyusaka and Morimura can be at the same time together in a place, which I guess beats up that "Everything is cyclical and it's totally Cloud Atlas" theorem. Anyway, the lack of dent might confirm the other theory that this is manufactured in future from documents of the past Yuki: ...I can't help but notice that I retain the thought cloud thoughts between taking stabs at the same day. Also, two Tomis and one of them is a werewolf. Really not sure where that's going lol. Shinonome: ...this is looping, is it? I don't know how, storywise, but I keep making shortcuts. Gouto talks about hands of raw power and with the info about dust I think she might be the one. Anyway I ran and now memory transplants have entered the story and I guess this explains Morimura having a younger double earlier on... and Ryoko's a memory transplant herself? Yakushiji: The magical gun is nanomachines, I'm sure of it. And those... do something with the Sentinels that is explicitly NOT piloting, because they could do that earlier... I think this might be planting a seed for Ei's infection later on? I feel like I'm getting owned here. Tomi: Aw Ogata got so sad at his hair being made fun of  I checked her tmeline and this appears to be... after the Ryoko vs Ei scene, where they were dThis is both Cloud Atlas and Primer where only consciousness can time travel is it
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Feb 25, 2021 19:05
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Ogata constantly getting dunked on is hilarious
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Feb 25, 2021 19:16
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eating only apples posted:Ogata ... is hilarious Fixed that for you.
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Feb 25, 2021 20:25
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I finally drilled through this after months of prodding by others. It was real great!! just some scattered thoughts after the ending and spending an hour reading the codex: Hijiyama is such a sweetie I just wanna bake cookies and fry yakisoba for him. It took a while for me to realize the G1 Rush Attack let you move further, I had been walking like schmuck for most of the game instead of being a pinball of steel. Not that a level 8 Demo Blade needs much help wrecking everything in front of it. I spent most of the game waiting for the reveal that current Ida was not the same as Shu/previous loop Ida. I know Shu makes a point to say he changed his looks to be cooler, but robot-making Ida looked so different from SIU Ida. Guess getting dunked on by 426 made him re-evaluate his hot boy lifestyle. I got the old sci-fi/space brain thinking about how the Sentinels were only created in the current loop thanks to Morimura. So there were hundreds of loops where everyone just got stepped on by Kaiju I guess. Thanks for that, Okino. I chuckled after the final battle when Shu had to explain about the city being artificial to everyone. It had become such a basic fact to me that I forgot that it never came up in most of the stories. Was it ever mentioned why Shinonome has all those bandages? I guess injuries from the Sentinel battle makes sense, but Gouto remarks early on about "such strength in her arms" or similar and I was wondering if we'd get a flashback of her tearing up some Shikishima goons barehanded or something.
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Feb 26, 2021 00:48
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Dezinus posted:just some scattered thoughts after the ending and spending an hour reading the codex: That's actually a question I have, what happened to her? Are we ever told or can we infer why she's all kinds of hosed up physically?
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Feb 26, 2021 01:03
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G1: tackle your way towards the biggest bad guy, then double punch or saw blade them to death.
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Feb 26, 2021 12:13
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 11:59 |
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Ogata + Hyper Condenser + Limiter Removal + Lv 8 Demolisher Blade + Team Strength Up + Jammer Missile + Back Attack was how I learned the damage readout caps at 99999 but you still deal the extra damage. Also I'm really curious about the basic stat modifications now. I dumped a bunch of levels into Sekigahara's Atk and now he just waltzes up into fields of g-molers and twintails and hits them with EMP Surround and they just, like, die?
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Feb 26, 2021 12:39
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