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CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





For my tenure as an IK, I have a competition.

First, background. I enjoy Star Trek. I don't like all trek, and even in shows I do like there are stinkers. The only tv shows series I have started but could not finish were Discovery and DS9. I feel that Discovery is just not the kind of trek i'm into, and there's no way I can get into it so i've written it off. But of all the treks I like, I really like TNG and Voyager. DS9 should be a slam dunk, but i've never made it past the 2nd season before I just get disgusted with the whole thing. I have enjoyed some episodes, though I don't recall which ones off the top of my head. But it never seems to be enough.

I really want to like DS9 though, so here's the competition.

You recommend me a DS9 episode to watch. You get a paragraph to explain anything you feel I should know before watching it, please put this paragraph in spoilers. I will watch the whole episode.

If I did not enjoy the episode, you eat a 6er.

If I enjoyed the episode, you get to pick any other poster in this thread who recommended an episode to me to eat a 6er. If they were just probated recently I will do it at some point later just to avoid chain probing them.

If I felt "meh" about the episode, nothing happens.

At the end of my time, I will chose the best episode out of all the ones recommended (even if I enjoyed none of them i'll pick the one I disliked the least) and I will buy* you a new AV/forum upgrade/someone else an AV/$20 steam game. Your choice.




*by "buy" i mean I will ask around and find an admin who will do the thing in exchange for a donation to a non-profit, assuming the forum sale still hasn't gone through. If the sale has gone through I will use normal channels.

= You get to probe someone
= meh
= You got probed!


Watch List



Have won 1 (one) probation to give out

Did not fail, but did not win

Absolute failure, probably had baseball in it

Spent your probe

CainFortea fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Oct 21, 2020

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Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


Nap Ghost

Tell us a bit about you--do you like funny episodes? Serious episodes? Any big turn-offs?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Pick posted:

Tell us a bit about you--do you like funny episodes? Serious episodes? Any big turn-offs?

I feel like I should be putting this up on Tinder.

In Trek shows I enjoy both funny and serious. I don't like all the funny or all the serious episodes, and I'd be hard pressed to point out a specific reason for either one. I laughed till I drat near cried watching Bride of Chaotica!

A big turn off is turning the Federation into mustache twirling bad guys. To me, one of the biggest draws of Trek was a future where we got it right for the most part. Which is one of the reasons I'm just skipping Picard entirely, and I hear comes up later in Discovery. I have other shows for the more grimdark realism, Trek is hopeful above all else.

Edit: To be clear I stopped Disco because the Klingons looked so loving stupid and they sounded like the whiniest poo poo heads. They're supposed to be fierce warriors and the way they speak makes me think they're complaining to their friend that the caprice salad they ordered had orange cherry tomatoes instead of yellow cherry tomatoes like they hoped.

mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


So you'll sit through the poo poo with Allemerain/Shap, but won't go peep the better episodes later?

DS9 is a lot tougher to recommend ship-in-a-bottle episodes, because without the context of Quark and his family dynamics, it's a lot harder to like an episode like Magnificent Ferengi (which is loving incredible, btw). I'm going to have to recommend Trials and Tribble-ations. It was the Trek anniversary episode on DS9, and you can really tell that everyone was having a good time on set for it. Plus, you get to see Miles O'Brien, only enlisted man in Starfleet, get chewed out by Kirk. Also, Worf as a space trader. It's a super fun episode, with relatively "low stakes" in terms of plot, and I wouldn't be surprised to see more people recommend it

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


DS9 is best becuse it is just a great ensemble who likes each other. The plot is incidental and you can safely ignore it after season 6 ends. I recommend "The Ascent," which is a great show featuring the gruff yet lovable pair of odo and quark, who have a tom and jerry sort of relationship. there is also an "odd couple" subplot

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



When DS9 first came out, I hated it because it felt like it was leaving out the "seek out new worlds and new civilizations" part of Star Trek. The past two series were very much about a new planet of the week and different aliens. DS9 introduced a lot of new civilizations at the beginning by providing a deeper dive into Bajorans and Cardassians, but it wasn't as mobile. I stopped watching it around the first/second season because it wasn't the Star Trek I was used to. I got sucked back in Past Tense in Season 3 because it was a really good sci-fi episode by highlighting a lot of the injustices that our current society has. After that two-parter, I saw that the writing on the show had gotten a lot better.

What made you crap out on DS9 the first go around? If it was the writing, I can assure you that it got A LOT better after the first two seasons.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Bogus Adventure posted:

When DS9 first came out, I hated it because it felt like it was leaving out the "seek out new worlds and new civilizations" part of Star Trek. The past two series were very much about a new planet of the week and different aliens. DS9 introduced a lot of new civilizations at the beginning by providing a deeper dive into Bajorans and Cardassians, but it wasn't as mobile. I stopped watching it around the first/second season because it wasn't the Star Trek I was used to. I got sucked back in Past Tense in Season 3 because it was a really good sci-fi episode by highlighting a lot of the injustices that our current society has. After that two-parter, I saw that the writing on the show had gotten a lot better.

What made you crap out on DS9 the first go around? If it was the writing, I can assure you that it got A LOT better after the first two seasons.

I dunno, I just didn't really care about anyone on the station. Like, if you told me the next episode Sisko dies my immediate reaction would be "Huh, I wonder if his replacement is any better".

I've also tried like 4 times and never got through season 2.

Should I take this as you putting Past Tense in the ring for consideration?

mercenarynuker posted:

So you'll sit through the poo poo with Allemerain/Shap, but won't go peep the better episodes later?

DS9 is a lot tougher to recommend ship-in-a-bottle episodes, because without the context of Quark and his family dynamics, it's a lot harder to like an episode like Magnificent Ferengi (which is loving incredible, btw). I'm going to have to recommend Trials and Tribble-ations. It was the Trek anniversary episode on DS9, and you can really tell that everyone was having a good time on set for it. Plus, you get to see Miles O'Brien, only enlisted man in Starfleet, get chewed out by Kirk. Also, Worf as a space trader. It's a super fun episode, with relatively "low stakes" in terms of plot, and I wouldn't be surprised to see more people recommend it

I don't want to just blindly hunt through 5 seasons of trek to find the good stuff to interest me. Hence my thread. I take it you're putting in Trials and Tribble-ations into the ring for me to watch?

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

Security? Please escort the fan in section 106, row 16, seat 1 out of the building right now and bar him from coming here again!



the best episode in the series is The Visitor

its an examination of the relationship between ben sisko and his son jake and a time travel episode (to an extent) at the same time. its the best possible example of where jake was developed well as opposed to wesley, who was atrocious until like what, one episode before he fucks off? its also meaningful (and avery brooks literally wouldn thave it any other way, apparently) that for a tv show that was made in the 90s, a single black father is used as an role model (for the entire series) rather than being absent, a deadbeat or a punchline.

there are two caveats - if you genuinely dont give a poo poo about (either) sisko, you're going to be looking at a deeply emotional episode without a ton of connection to the characters. its also, as i said, the best episode of the entire series. a lot of episodes are close, but none are done quite as well and only a couple episodes in the series have tony todd.


minor actual spoilers that contextualize the episode a little bit, but are things that are developments over the previous three seasons of the show:

jake decided to become a journalist (and writer/author) instead of joining starfleet and the ship they're on isnt there at the start, its an upgrade in response to plot development

what episodes of tng or tos are your favourite?

Verviticus fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Sep 23, 2020

mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


CainFortea posted:

I dunno, I just didn't really care about anyone on the station. Like, if you told me the next episode Sisko dies my immediate reaction would be "Huh, I wonder if his replacement is any better".

I've also tried like 4 times and never got through season 2.

Should I take this as you putting Past Tense in the ring for consideration?


I don't want to just blindly hunt through 5 seasons of trek to find the good stuff to interest me. Hence my thread. I take it you're putting in Trials and Tribble-ations into the ring for me to watch?

Yes, Season 5, Episode 6. I will be cocky and say I doubt I'm getting probed

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

Security? Please escort the fan in section 106, row 16, seat 1 out of the building right now and bar him from coming here again!



whats the best gul dukat episode? i really enjoyed civil defence, but im not sure its as widely well received among the fans

edit: how much do you care about spoilers? would you be unhappy if i recommended an episode that revealed a bad guy or a major plot point

Verviticus fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Sep 23, 2020

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Verviticus posted:

whats the best gul dukat episode? i really enjoyed civil defence, but im not sure its as widely well received among the fans

edit: how much do you care about spoilers? would you be unhappy if i recommended an episode that revealed a bad guy or a major plot point

I mean, there's not going to be a way to avoid spoilers if i'm watching these in any old order. But if you're just chatting about something try not to spoil anything cause someone else might want to recommend an episode.

I didn't like much of ToS. TNG I really liked Inner Light, Darmok, Lower Decks, most of the Borg episodes, Disaster.

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

Security? Please escort the fan in section 106, row 16, seat 1 out of the building right now and bar him from coming here again!



CainFortea posted:

I mean, there's not going to be a way to avoid spoilers if i'm watching these in any old order. But if you're just chatting about something try not to spoil anything cause someone else might want to recommend an episode.

I didn't like much of ToS. TNG I really liked Inner Light, Darmok, Lower Decks, most of the Borg episodes, Disaster.

the spoilers in the three eps mentioned - the visitor, trials and tribulations, and past tense are all quite minor and in some cases totally overlap. i would suggest you start with those three since they're the ones so far

hell, put me up for three sixers in a row if you dislike any of them. im 50/50 on past tense because it can be a little slow but i'd be utterly shocked if you dislike the other two

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



CainFortea posted:

I dunno, I just didn't really care about anyone on the station. Like, if you told me the next episode Sisko dies my immediate reaction would be "Huh, I wonder if his replacement is any better".

I've also tried like 4 times and never got through season 2.

Should I take this as you putting Past Tense in the ring for consideration?

Yes. Past Tense is a great two-parter dealing with Sisko and Bashir getting tossed back into 21st Century Earth where they get involved in a historical riot spurred by homeless/destitute people being rounded up into containment camps by the current government. The riot is one of the events that spurs humans toward becoming the humans we see in Star Trek---cooperative, compassionate, and driven toward self-improvement. Given all the poo poo that is going on in the world right now, it's incredibly timely.

Honestly, I'd recommend skipping over Season 1 and 2 for some of the later episodes because those episodes will make you care about the characters. Once you build that connection, it helps to go back and see earlier episodes if you want to see how the whole series ties together because Sisko becoming the Emissary is important to fully appreciate the ending of the show. That being said, it's a series that you can watch out of order and enjoy.

mysterious frankie
Jan 11, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 4 days!


S3E3 The House of Quark

It’s funny, it’s got some intrigue, it has Miles trying to fix the series of problems he’s caused his wife by moving them to DS9. It’s a pretty good “light” episode from before the Dominion War kicks off that showcases Armin Shimerman’s ability to play a lovable dirtbag.


Bogus Adventure posted:

Yes. Past Tense is a great two-parter dealing with Sisko and Bashir getting tossed back into 21st Century Earth where they get involved in a historical riot spurred by homeless/destitute people being rounded up into containment camps by the current government. The riot is one of the events that spurs humans toward becoming the humans we see in Star Trek---cooperative, compassionate, and driven toward self-improvement. Given all the poo poo that is going on in the world right now, it's incredibly timely.

Honestly, I'd recommend skipping over Season 1 and 2 for some of the later episodes because those episodes will make you care about the characters. Once you build that connection, it helps to go back and see earlier episodes if you want to see how the whole series ties together because Sisko becoming the Emissary is important to fully appreciate the ending of the show. That being said, it's a series that you can watch out of order and enjoy.

In the far off year of 2024 I look forward to being referred to as a Gimme.

oh but seriously I
Sep 26, 2019

Do you ever wonder if there are other planets out there
(source)

DS9 is layered work featuring compelling, multifaceted characters. It is serialised yet episodic so individual episodes/two parters are satisfying in themselves while adding to the greater whole. Quark is perhaps the most compelling character in all of Star Trek and the Sisko/Jake relationship is the wholesomest father/son dynamic in all of television. You should start with S01E10 Move Along Home

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



mysterious frankie posted:

In the far off year of 2024 I look forward to being referred to as a Gimme.

Life is imitating art in the shittiest of ways

Mx.
Dec 16, 2006

do not feed after midnight




S3E3 The House of Quark
I may have been beaten to this response but it's still the right episode

mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


drat, how did I forget about House of Quark. loving weird that the Ferengi episodes are the best episodes

oh but seriously I
Sep 26, 2019

Do you ever wonder if there are other planets out there
(source)

mercenarynuker posted:

drat, how did I forget about House of Quark. loving weird that the Ferengi episodes are the best episodes

quark is in them & quark is the best. except that one time

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




House of Quark is really more of a Klingon episode, but they realise that the Ferengi are by far the funniest when they're playing off someone else.

Boogle
Sep 1, 2004



Nap Ghost

I'm going to risk a probation and recommend a 1st season episode - S1E19: Duet, mainly because its a good character study and a decent stand-alone episode that provides a lot of interesting foundational background for the show.

However I'm probably going to get probated if you prefer something more flashy and action oriented like some of the stuff in the later seasons.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Looking through a recap myself, not sure it's come up, but S2 E15 Paradise comes to mind as being pretty memorable just for how it plays out. There's a few episodes with Sisko thrust into a situation about society being utterly hosed up and just staring it right in the face.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005


The best character in the series is, by far, Garak, and my favorite character analysis of him comes in season 3, episode 20, Improbable Cause. It is technically the first half of a two-parter that has some ripple effects down the line for the plot, but that episode, by itself, doesn't reveal too much, and it is excellently acted and shot. Andrew J Robinson is a loving treasure.

The basic plot summary is Garak's tailor shop gets blow up in an apparent attack on him, and he and Odo work to figure out who was behind it and why. The way Robinson and Auberjonois (Odo) bounce off each other is phenomenal, and it has probably my favorite interaction between Garak and Bashir in the series.

Edit: I would also highly recommend season 6, episode 19, In the Pale Moonlight, but not for this request because it requires knowledge of the series up to that point and hits the "morally gray" side of the Federation that OP dislikes. But Avery knocks it out of the park.

AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Sep 24, 2020

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

Two of my absolute favorites (Civil Defense and The House of Quark) have already been mentioned, but the one I'm gonna endorse is It's Only A Paper Moon, which I wrote a bit about earlier in my "I occasionally watch a Star Trek episode" thread (which I have temporarily but not forever abandoned because I've disappeared down an Arrowverse rabbit hole of late).

Seventh season, episode ten. I think it stands on its own pretty well but it might hit harder if you're already familiar with the relevant characters. There is a bit of necessary context: Nog, Rom's son and the first Ferengi in Starfleet, was severely injured in a battle with the Dominion ultimately resulting in his losing his leg in the earlier episode The Siege of AR-558. This is the story of him returning to DS9 after his convalescence.

Vic Fontaine is a hologram of a Vegas lounge singer who has more or less attained sentience. He's a recurring character in a number of episodes.

mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


Watching Nana Visitor chew the gently caress out of the scenery in the Mirror Universe episodes are pretty great, too. It's pretty clear she's loving how over the top she gets to be

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





The mirror universe stuff never got enough screen time. The mirror universe book for TNG is literally the only trek book i've read and it was fun. Also some of the best Enterprise episodes.

bitterandtwisted
Sep 4, 2006





Weyoun is one of my favourite characters and Treachery, Faith and the Great River is one of the few episodes where he plays a major role.
It also has a fun B plot

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

I'll see you in the dome





Watch season 3 episode 24, Shakaar, for its full-throated defence of insurrection. And never forget:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfMXi3sOCYc

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011





quote:

tng: welcome aboard the starship enterprise, a luxury cruise ship drifting among the stars. our crew contains notable elements of Diversity and our captain gets pegged by an omniscient being from another dimension. enjoy the soft jazz concerts, shakespeare performances, and infinitely powerful holodecks at your leisure

ds9: hop aboard Station On Fire Trash Can bitch. does our poo poo work? no. is this a safe place to live? gently caress no. senior officers include Space Dad, Lesbian Terrorist, Trans Worm, Goo, Dr. Twink, and Perpetually Confused White Guy. if you want to get dragged into an elaborate crime syndicate, contract a deadly space disease, or get stabbed in a barfight, you’ve come to the right place. also, holosuites are for loving. yeehaw

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

I'll see you in the dome





That the transporter brings people straight into the command room on DS9 never stops being hilarious.

bitterandtwisted
Sep 4, 2006






My favourite "this ain't TNG" moment:

Odo: Is that young Mr Sisko heading to the holosuites?
Quark: It's not what you think.
Odo: It better not be.

Odo didn't know people used them for any other reason

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




bitterandtwisted posted:

My favourite "this ain't TNG" moment:

Odo: Is that young Mr Sisko heading to the holosuites?
Quark: It's not what you think.
Odo: It better not be.

Odo didn't know people used them for any other reason

Quark outright says he considers non-loving uses of the holosuites to be an innovative new sector

And what isn't loving is violence, through with Klingons especially I imagine there's overlap

mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


josh04 posted:

That the transporter brings people straight into the command room on DS9 never stops being hilarious.

I mean, why is it any different than Voyager or the Enterprise, where the turbolifts will happily whisk randos straight to the bridge, no questions asked, regardless of alert status? I'm thinking especially of the TNG episode with the frozen schmucks from the 90s being brought on board

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



mercenarynuker posted:

I mean, why is it any different than Voyager or the Enterprise, where the turbolifts will happily whisk randos straight to the bridge, no questions asked, regardless of alert status? I'm thinking especially of the TNG episode with the frozen schmucks from the 90s being brought on board

Adam Chance, Agent for H.A.R.M., needed his Wall Street Journal, dammit!

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

I'll see you in the dome





mercenarynuker posted:

I mean, why is it any different than Voyager or the Enterprise, where the turbolifts will happily whisk randos straight to the bridge, no questions asked, regardless of alert status? I'm thinking especially of the TNG episode with the frozen schmucks from the 90s being brought on board

It's the same silliness, but it's just that bit more obvious. Half the time the person transported arrives already pointing a gun.

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005

[A]sk me about OS/2 WARP


Hi, i don't normally hang out in here but yospos is getting sick of me jerking off over scifi, so i figured i'd hang out.

My personal rec is going to be s04e16, Bar Association, where we see a unionization attempt in real time. It's incredibly fun.

I will, however, echo this:


AlternateNu posted:

I would also highly recommend season 6, episode 19, In the Pale Moonlight, but not for this request because it requires knowledge of the series up to that point and hits the "morally gray" side of the Federation that OP dislikes. But Avery knocks it out of the park.

This episode is such a masterful hour of TV that I can't really describe it. I have watched every single episode of every Trek series (yes, even lower decks and picard), and this is still my all time #1 favorite. You cannot go wrong with letting Sisko chew the scenery in a morally shadow-cloaked Tough Situation.

--

Also, yes, Garak is the best DS9 character, and possibly the best Trek character of all time.

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

Security? Please escort the fan in section 106, row 16, seat 1 out of the building right now and bar him from coming here again!



i think in the pale moonlight is best saved for a full ds9 watch-through if he decides that he likes the series, honestly

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005


Verviticus posted:

i think in the pale moonlight is best saved for a full ds9 watch-through if he decides that he likes the series, honestly

Agreed (which is why I phrase the recommendation as such), but if the real goal here is to decide whether OP "likes" the series, I feel it will end up being a necessary watch if they're on the fence.

Mx.
Dec 16, 2006

do not feed after midnight




Little Green Men is also pretty great

I guess what I'm saying is, you can't go wrong with a Quark episode

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docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

Miss posted:

I guess what I'm saying is, you can't go wrong with a Quark episode

With few exceptions.

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