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Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





Baseball rules. gently caress you.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

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mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


Miss posted:

I would like to probate myself, in recognition of my many successes

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

THIS IS A POST WORTHY OF STO-VO-KOR!

Peanut President posted:

Baseball rules. gently caress you.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

THIS IS A POST WORTHY ONLY OF FEK'LHR!

mysterious frankie
Jan 11, 2009

This displeases Dev- ..van. Shut up.


Ghost Leviathan posted:

Key thing is that TOS era clearly isn't post-scarcity yet, 'credits' are mentioned and a lot of episodes revolve around acquisition and distribution of resources, and human businessmen (mostly Harry Mudd) are still a major thing. TNG and DS9 have a Federation that seems very materially secure, enthusiastically engages in humanitarianism and foreign aid, and treats capitalism as something quaint at best, dangerous at worst. (Quark outright says that hu-mons clearly hold the Ferengi in contempt because they remind humanity of their past that they consider shameful)

But yeah, the Starfleet crews we do see are majority human, though later shows do make an effort to mix it up a bit. DS9 I think does do this a lot- a minor but interesting thing in context is when Jadzia takes Kira to a Camelot holoprogram, which ends in hilarious misunderstandings; both are aliens from very different cultures engaging in a recreation of a culture that's alien to both. Still say there's a missed opportunity for Bashir and O'Brien to invite Martok or a Klingon one-off to the Alamo holoprogram, they'd probably love it. (Is funny that Worf is clearly familiar with the scenario and has little interest in it, since being raised on Earth it's nothing novel to him)

There's also the bit where Eddington compares the Federation to the Borg- significant I think since the Borg are often called a clear sci-fi analogue to Communist stereotypes, wanting to subjugate all other peoples and cultures into a homogenous mass. (Rather than your typical alien nazis who want to exterminate all others. See also Cybermen vs Daleks)

Humans and their place in Trek are interesting if you stop taking them at their word when they say they’ve “evolved” beyond certain behaviors and ethical philosophies, to see they’ve essentially built a culture that’s a reaction to their fear of backsliding into the behaviors plaguing us today. It makes sense on paper why the Federation would give us an unusual amount of power over their space force; we’re a hyper vigilant race constantly trying to prove we’re not really violent or greedy anymore who will give you 110% of ourselves in exchange for attaboys. If it wasn’t for the fact that every second admiral featured goes bugfuck insane, it would seem like we’re a race tailor made to be trustworthy administrators.

Greg12
Apr 22, 2020


I think I remember a lot of references to Earth having a much bigger population than the rest of the Federation home planets, which is a great way to explain why all the ships are built at McKinely and Utopia Planitia to human designs and crewed by humans. We hear about Vulcan ships sometimes; do we ever hear about other ones?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Greg12 posted:

I think I remember a lot of references to Earth having a much bigger population than the rest of the Federation home planets, which is a great way to explain why all the ships are built at McKinely and Utopia Planitia to human designs and crewed by humans. We hear about Vulcan ships sometimes; do we ever hear about other ones?

There was that weird baseball episode I skipped, but watched long enough to learn there was one of those old science Starfleet vessels that's been fighting the dominion a bunch that's crewed entirely by vulcans.

Lobster God
Nov 5, 2008


Peanut President posted:

Baseball rules. gently caress you.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

I remember back when DS9 was originally airing, we'd get the episodes in the UK months after they were shown in the US, meaning fan reaction would spread over here well before the chance to see the episode.

I was so looking forward to Take Me Out to the Holosuite. Everyone seemed to love it. Then I watched it and it was so bad, because baseball is terrible and boring. Which is something I would have known if I'd ever seen a game of baseball at that point.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

I thought "Take Me Out" was a fun episode, if not really one of my favorites and I don't hate baseball (but I don't love it as much as my girlfriend does).

CainFortea posted:

There was that weird baseball episode I skipped, but watched long enough to learn there was one of those old science Starfleet vessels that's been fighting the dominion a bunch that's crewed entirely by vulcans.

There was also the Intrepid in TOS which was crewed entirely by Vulcans, and was apparently the only ship in Starfleet that had never used its weapons in aggression. (Then they got et by a giant space amoeba.)

Diane Duane's Trek novels are interesting in this light because she absolutely did crew the Enterprise and other starships with a very wide variety of aliens (up to and including a young Horta crewmember).

Oh, and as for the two probations I could give out, I choose to embrace the aspirational dream of the Federation and show mercy to my fellow posters.

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





Peanut President posted:

Take Me Out To The Holosuite op

when my choice inevitably wins just kick the 20 bucks or whatever to RAINN under the name "Cpt. Benjamin Sisko"

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)



my episode was clearly the best choice but since the op is clearly a vulcan and incapable of having fun I made the donation myself

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




Lotta soulless minions of orthodoxy ITT.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Peanut President posted:

my episode was clearly the best choice but since the op is clearly a vulcan and incapable of having fun I made the donation myself




Nice. Well done!

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012


Surprised Whispers hasn't been recommended, too obvious?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Neurolimal posted:

Surprised Whispers hasn't been recommended, too obvious?

Is this you throwing your hat in the ring?

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012


CainFortea posted:

Is this you throwing your hat in the ring?

Well my last recommendation was a dud, but sure!

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



I must join this journey on the road to Kalhyia

My suggestion is "The Wire"

and also S2E22 "The Wire"

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Grand Fromage posted:

Lotta soulless minions of orthodoxy ITT.

I still loving love that Star Trek still has cranks

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





The Magnificent Ferengi - That's a good western version in star trek. I wasn't expecting it to be Ferengi, but i'll take it. Also now I know what Moogie is. Also, pro use of weekend at bernies.

Whispers - I've seen this one a few times, so the twist wasn't new. Still viewable tho, so

The Wire - I know i've seen this one before, but I don't remember it. It was a good hammy take on how abusive people who are dependant can be when they're cut off. I was going to give it a words rating, but the pun "Patience has it's rewards" gave it a

mercenarynuker
and
Nebakenezzer

Both win a prize!

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

the wire is 100% worth it for Enabran Tain, an actual realistic look at how amicable a lot of truly terrifying people are in similar administrations

for further reading, "How to Feed a Dictator" is one of my top fun books of 2020 (tales from the chefs of dictators, e.g. idi amin and pol pot)

mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


Grand Fromage posted:

Lotta soulless minions of orthodoxy ITT.

Not seeing any episode rec's from you, Mr./Ms. Blue Star

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




mercenarynuker posted:

Not seeing any episode rec's from you, Mr./Ms. Blue Star

Already recommended The Wire, which has been watched and enjoyed.

Springfield Fatts
May 24, 2010


Pillbug

I'll throw a curveball and say The Assignment (S5-E5). It's an O'Brien Must Suffer episode but it's got solid suspense and Rosalind Chao gets to actually act instead of just playing the nagging wife.

Sexual Aluminum
Jun 21, 2003

is made of candy

Soiled Meat

"Allamaraine, baseballs a bore,
Allamaraine, there's not much lore,
Allamaraine, all I want to see,
Allamaraine, my fav show Discovery"

Discovery being the fav show of the Run Along Home game makes sense

mysterious frankie
Jan 11, 2009

This displeases Dev- ..van. Shut up.


S4E24 "Body Parts" is almost worth it just for Garak and Quark bickering over Quark's holo-corpse about how gross the sound is that his neck made when it snapped

ANOTHER SCORCHER
Aug 12, 2018


This is all one big thing.


That's S2E25. I was genuinely going to suggest S2E24, "The Quickening" which is a mostly Bashir-centric episode but after his weird early season horndog nature is gone and before the changes made to him later in the show. It also feels like a mix of a TOS and TNG episode, and the "antagonist" of the episode, to use the term lightly, is nuanced.

ANOTHER SCORCHER fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Oct 8, 2020

mysterious frankie
Jan 11, 2009

This displeases Dev- ..van. Shut up.


ANOTHER SCORCHER posted:

That's S2E25. I was genuinely going to suggest S2E24, "The Quickening" which is a mostly Bashir-centric episode but after his weird early season horndog nature is gone and before the changes made to him later in the show. It also feels like a mix of a TOS and TNG episode, and the "antagonist" of the episode, to use the term lightly, is nuanced.

Netflix and IMDb list it as episode 24, but if you search “ds9 s4e24” Wikipedia is the first result and it lists it as The Quickening, so idk. I did actually watch that ep today by chance and I’d recommend it too. It’s fairly serious without a lighter B story to break it up, but the A story is engaging and about pushing past your frustrations at how the world isn’t ideal, in order to see a way to do whatever good is in your power, which kinda resonates these days.

It also better sets the stakes, since up until now races in Dominion controlled space talk about how scared they are of them, but we never hear specifics. You think, oh, they must just send the Jem’Hadar to squash resistance or even maybe destroy your planet if you gently caress around, but, no. They’re not that nice.

E: I just got done watching Trials & Tribble-Ations and am happy to report in season 5 Bashir is just as horny as ever, all being like "Better have sex with my great-grandmother, you know, in case I'm a paradox..." I guess maybe he just got better at not constantly telling everyone specifics regarding how horny he is, which makes him better than most people online.

mysterious frankie fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Oct 7, 2020

Brute Squad
Dec 20, 2006

Laughter is the sun that drives winter from the human race






I'm going to pitch season 3's Destiny. It's a great example of DS9 showing what Star Trek storytelling (and indeed, tv of the future) could be. Discrete stories that still build a serialized, consistent, and expanding universe. The season 2 3-parter (The Homecoming/The Circle/The Siege) set the stage and showed DS9 cast and crew successfully pulling off a multi-episode arc. I'm going to be vague because I think it's better to see the episode first before you start doing major plot and character discussions.

Destiny is a simple episode. Federation wants to make it easier to communicate through the wormhole, some cardassian scientists figured it out, and are helping out as part of the new bajoran-cardassian peace treaty. A bajoran religious leader comes to the emissary with fears that the experiment will destroy the wormhole based on a prophecy. How does the crew balance all these things and still accomplish the mission? The episode shows character growth in several main characters (Sisko, Kira, O'Brien). It also builds upon previous episodes (e.g. Bajoran-Cardassian peace treaty) and expands on the background universe (e.g. cardassian internal politics and the unity of the bajoran religion). It's not a top 10 episode, but it's a solid example of what DS9 can do as a show, and is a predictor of what tv shows will be in the future.

And most importantly, what we learn in O'Brien's story puts the scene between Jellico and the Gul in a whole new light.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrZUMEPQyfg#t=132s

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





The Assignment - It's nice to see Rom become the science engineering nerd. I am sad that they didn't even mention the time that O'Brian got taken over by an incorporeal being and threatened Keiko and Molly.

Also it was fun watching Keiko's actress go full evil ham.

This one is a

Springfield Fatts gets to hand out a probe.

mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


I'm cashing in my probe for Brute Squad! I'm hoping they take my irritability as a sign of my fertility

Brute Squad
Dec 20, 2006

Laughter is the sun that drives winter from the human race






mercenarynuker posted:

I'm cashing in my probe for Brute Squad! I'm hoping they take my irritability as a sign of my fertility

gonna spend my prob watching more scifi and come back with even more opinions!

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

I'm going to toss the dice and recommend S4E10, "Our Man Bashir". DS9 didn't rely so much on holodeck episodes as other Trek series (they were more of a background element) but the ones they did have were fun.

This one has some excellent Bashir-Garak interactions and now that you've seena few episodes to establish the main cast, you get to see the actors cut loose and break character in some really fun ways. Especially if you like James Bond movies.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Destiny - I feel bad for the cardasian lady, she actually seemed nice when she tried to get in O'Brian's pants. Also, vaporizing the comet would mean there's vapor heading in the same way. Also, I knew the 3rd cardassian was a plant as soon as she showed up.

Now I get the fertility jokes.

Brute Squad

You get a probe to hand out.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




Lemniscate Blue posted:

I'm going to toss the dice and recommend S4E10, "Our Man Bashir". DS9 didn't rely so much on holodeck episodes as other Trek series (they were more of a background element) but the ones they did have were fun.

This one has some excellent Bashir-Garak interactions and now that you've seena few episodes to establish the main cast, you get to see the actors cut loose and break character in some really fun ways. Especially if you like James Bond movies.

The holodeck ep so good they were threatened with legal action if they ever did it again.

Brute Squad
Dec 20, 2006

Laughter is the sun that drives winter from the human race






CainFortea posted:

Destiny - I feel bad for the cardasian lady, she actually seemed nice when she tried to get in O'Brian's pants. Also, vaporizing the comet would mean there's vapor heading in the same way. Also, I knew the 3rd cardassian was a plant as soon as she showed up.

Now I get the fertility jokes.

Brute Squad

You get a probe to hand out.

Glad you enjoyed it. It's not a big set piece, but it has a bunch of bits of character growth and world building.
- O'Brien, a decorated veteran of the Federation-Cardassian war, bonded with and inadvertently flirted with a Cardassian scientist over an engineering project. A step up from dropping the "cardies" slur in season 1.
- Kira continuing the path of balancing 'Sisko the Commander' with 'Sisko the Emissary'
- Sisko starting on his path to embrace the Emissary position
- The Obsidian Order working against the interests of the rest of the Cardassian gov't
- Closing the plothole of how they communicate through the closed wormhole
- Bajorans and their religion are not a monolith

most importantly, you can ask yourself "Was Jellico intentionally flirting with that gul to throw him off his game?"

But that O'Brien has got it going on. Look at those bedroom eyes.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

Grand Fromage posted:

The holodeck ep so good they were threatened with legal action if they ever did it again.

Haha, yeah MGM was not happy with how much fun they were having with the James Bond archetype

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

Grand Fromage posted:

The holodeck ep so good they were threatened with legal action if they ever did it again.

Were they seriously? Hahahaha. I do love Our Man Bashir if only for how angry Garak gets at this completely romanticized idea of what espionage work is like.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




Yep.

quote:

Although Ronald D. Moore attempted to avoid directly referencing any of his primary influences, it seems that some names and situations skated a little too close for comfort. After this episode aired, the producers got an angry letter from MGM, the studio which holds the rights to the James Bond property. The DS9 Companion doesn't reveal the content of the letter other than to say, "apparently MGM did not find imitation to be the sincerest form of flattery." As such, in the fifth season episode "A Simple Investigation", which returns to Bashir's holonovel, the references to Bond are far more subtle.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

the rest of star trek: oh no, our systems are malfunctioning!

deep space nine: oh well, our poo poo's malfunctioning.

mysterious frankie
Jan 11, 2009

This displeases Dev- ..van. Shut up.


Cease to Hope posted:

the rest of star trek: oh no, our systems are malfunctioning!

deep space nine: oh well, our poo poo's malfunctioning.

MILES: oh boy, our poo poo’s malfunctioning!!!

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

mysterious frankie posted:

MILES: oh boy, our poo poo’s malfunctioning!!!

KIRA: "Our poo poo's malfunctioning?" Draws phaser and fires at console while tech dives out of the way

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Our Man Bashir
It almost made it. Kira being angry even when her brain pattern is gone works well, and Garack just being mad about how nothing makes sense was fun. But on the whole it didn't quite grab me.

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mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


Boooooooooooooooo

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