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mysterious frankie
Jan 11, 2009

This displeases Dev- ..van. Shut up.


docbeard posted:

KIRA: "Our poo poo's malfunctioning?" Draws phaser and fires at console while tech dives out of the way

*her latest boyfriend is near the console, gets a fatal case of Console Spark Fever, refuses treatment because The Prophets want it this way*

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mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


You know what DS9 needs? More springball

ANOTHER SCORCHER
Aug 12, 2018


This is all one big thing.


ANOTHER SCORCHER posted:

That's S2E25. I was genuinely going to suggest S2E24, "The Quickening" which is a mostly Bashir-centric episode but after his weird early season horndog nature is gone and before the changes made to him later in the show. It also feels like a mix of a TOS and TNG episode, and the "antagonist" of the episode, to use the term lightly, is nuanced.

You skipped my suggestion of S2E24, "The Quickening". I promise it's fun. (Or not, if you don't like it)

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Good catch, I added it.

So, i'm gonna wrap this thread up on the 20th. That's 6 days, so next Tuesday. Everyone needs to use their probes if they want to by then, and then one week from today I will announce the grand victor.

Brute Squad
Dec 20, 2006

Laughter is the sun that drives winter from the human race






i'll cash my probe in as a vengeance probe on mercenarynuker. that'll teach them a lesson.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

More like "Bulges Adventure"

Brute Squad posted:

i'll cash my probe in as a vengeance probe on mercenarynuker. that'll teach them a lesson.



lmao

mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


Today is a good day to die!



(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

mercenarynuker fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Oct 17, 2020

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





The Quickening was okay. The cold open was entertaining, and I think they did the whole doctor hubris plot thing well enough, just not good.

mysterious frankie
Jan 11, 2009

This displeases Dev- ..van. Shut up.


Has anyone recommended S5E25 “In the Cards” yet? Features Nog and Jake running around the station, interacting with characters, in order to accomplish a goal that will in no way impact the fate of the Alpha Quadrant. Weyoun is also in it, and he gets a chance to interact with characters he normally wouldn’t about silly stuff, which is good. It’s a fun episode.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





mysterious frankie posted:

Has anyone recommended S5E25 “In the Cards” yet? Features Nog and Jake running around the station, interacting with characters, in order to accomplish a goal that will in no way impact the fate of the Alpha Quadrant. Weyoun is also in it, and he gets a chance to interact with characters he normally wouldn’t about silly stuff, which is good. It’s a fun episode.

I have a whole ordered list of eps in the OP!

mysterious frankie
Jan 11, 2009

This displeases Dev- ..van. Shut up.


CainFortea posted:

I have a whole ordered list of eps in the OP!

Aha! Well, I recommend In the Cards then. It’s a great low stakes Jake and Nog adventure, which are in short supply, and a couple characters who are generally only used to advance the overarching plot get to breathe a bit.

Plus it has a mad scientist.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




mysterious frankie posted:

Aha! Well, I recommend In the Cards then. It’s a great low stakes Jake and Nog adventure, which are in short supply, and a couple characters who are generally only used to advance the overarching plot get to breathe a bit.

Plus it has a mad scientist.

I still love that episode for being probably the only outright crank scientist we've seen in Star Trek, indicating that even in the sci-fi future there's still crazy people who get weird ideas about how they think the universe works. (and while they're probably wrong it's not like episodes haven't been resolved with crazier bullshit)

...also it's funny on thinking that Weyoun is interested in a treatment to give immortality, given Weyoun already has access to a form of immortality in being cloned, and it's not like he's so far lived long enough in one body for it to start dying of old age. And his masters are already confirmed as immortal, or at least extremely long-lived.

grassy gnoll
Aug 27, 2006

The pawsting business is tough work.

That Weyoun isn't immortal. Maybe you should talk to Worf again about it.

mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


grassy gnoll posted:

That Weyoun isn't immortal. Maybe you should talk to Worf again about it.

Fuckin LOL

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





In the Cards was good. I liked how the end showed most people more happy, except space karen. Even Weyoun seemed excited.

Also I'm going to start using "Soulless minions of orthodoxy" as an insult.

Okay, that's going to wrap up it up. My winner will get picked today. I gotta ruminate on it.

mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


Listen, sometimes your cells just get bored and you've gotta take them on the cellular equivalent of a rollercoaster. This is just basic science that the soulless minions of orthodoxy are trying to suppress

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell


grassy gnoll posted:

That Weyoun isn't immortal. Maybe you should talk to Worf again about it.

mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


I for one would like to congratulate everyone but President Peanut for choosing episodes that CainFortea didn't actively hate. The real winners were the friends we made along the way

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Okay, i've picked. It was close.

Trials and Tribble-ations was a really fun romp, and of all the time travel eps Star Trek has done, this one was really well done cinematically.

Civil Defense was an decent episode until Gul Dukat shows up and just makes like 2000 ham sandwiches. Him just chatting while wandering around all the destruction and then realizing HE is also hosed was glorious.

Shakaar was good if for nothing else than even the military realizing that Space Karen is a dick and should be ignored.

Bar Association for worker unity and rubbing Quark's face in the fact that Rom is good and useful.

It was a tough choice, but I have to go with Civil Defense. docbeard You get to pick one of the choices offered, and since Jeff owns the forums now those are on the table. If you still want me to donate to a non-profit I will do that.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




Good choosin', I think Civil Defense is the best DS9 standalone episode. Nothing good in DS9 is totally standalone, even that one works best with some familiarity with Dukat, but all the truly great eps are part of arcs. Civil Defense still works if you know nothing.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

CainFortea posted:

It was a tough choice, but I have to go with Civil Defense. docbeard You get to pick one of the choices offered, and since Jeff owns the forums now those are on the table. If you still want me to donate to a non-profit I will do that.

There are two moments I absolutely adore in this episode:

Garak calling out Dukat on his perving on Kira all the time while she's standing there getting madder and madder.

Garak's absolute moment of triumph disintegrating before our eyes when he gets that "gently caress YOU, YOU COWARD" message.

I think a donation to RAINN is what I would like to happen. Thanks!

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





docbeard posted:

There are two moments I absolutely adore in this episode:

Garak calling out Dukat on his perving on Kira all the time while she's standing there getting madder and madder.

Garak's absolute moment of triumph disintegrating before our eyes when he gets that "gently caress YOU, YOU COWARD" message.

I think a donation to RAINN is what I would like to happen. Thanks!



$25 bucks to rainn, would have put it in your name but I couldn't figure out how to get that to happen.

I would like to thank everyone for participating and making my time as IK entertaining. This was good enough of a thread that I'm going to continue watching DS9 from where I quit in my chronological Star Trek watch, at the end of season 2.

mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


CainFortea posted:

This was good enough of a thread that I'm going to continue watching DS9 from where I quit in my chronological Star Trek watch, at the end of season 2.

That means the thread was an unparalleled success, then! There will still be some stinker episodes in there, but there's also been several episodes not recommended that are excellent that you now get to experience. Like all the ones with Intendant Kira Nerys, for example

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Yea, it seems that the maquis stuff just kills all interest in Star Trek for me.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




One of the best mid-DS9 plot threads is Maquis related, you may surprise yourself.

Way more interesting than anything they did with the Maquis on Voyager, the show they were designed for.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





The very concept of the Maquis is broken from the start and I'm glad that poo poo died early on voyager. I have strong doubt i'm going to like any future maquis episodes but I guess we'll find out.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

CainFortea posted:

The very concept of the Maquis is broken from the start and I'm glad that poo poo died early on voyager. I have strong doubt i'm going to like any future maquis episodes but I guess we'll find out.

I found the concept pretty dubious as well when it was introduced too (though it resulted in a great rant from Sisko) but DS9 does indeed take it some interesting places later on. (Resulting in more great rants from Sisko).

...it is possible I know exactly what I like on this show.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




I think the idea was good but not handled super well, but despite that one of my favorite DS9 episodes is Maquis stuff.

Lobster God
Nov 5, 2008


For the Cause/ For the Uniform/ Blaze of Glory are far and away the best marquis content.

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

I'll see you in the dome





The Maquis stuff briefly grinds DS9 to an absolute halt, being somehow an entire organisation lacking in charisma or screen presence. They're less objectionable when they're just turning up to be idiots for one-offs.

Pleased that Shakaar made it so far, don't know if it's an episode that typically gets much recognition.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





The problem I have with the maquis is it's coded as "indigenous people forced out by larger politics"

Which is weird cause none of those planets had been colonized for more than like 50 years. So it's not like any ancient burial grounds are getting upset by this. They also keep talking about the federation abandoning them, meanwhile the federation has opened up a bunch of worlds for colonizing and was offering them tons of help to move.

So much so that the groundwork was laid in that TNG episode where they were actually native americans (even though it was super weird cause apparently it was just there to make wesley realize his super potential?)

Anyway, the whole entire maquis plot point was rehashed much better in one of the TNG movies where people don't age.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Yeah, I think the Maquis concept really underestimated the audience's ability to remember the setting's tenets, including that the Federation is capable of settling displaced peoples on planets that presumably aren't a political hot zone. See also that episode with the Gamma Quadrant refugees who really want to settle on Bajor based on a vague prophecy despite countless reasons why that's a bad idea.

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

Security? Please escort the fan in section 106, row 16, seat 1 out of the building right now and bar him from coming here again!




Ghost Leviathan posted:

Yeah, I think the Maquis concept really underestimated the audience's ability to remember the setting's tenets, including that the Federation is capable of settling displaced peoples on planets that presumably aren't a political hot zone. See also that episode with the Gamma Quadrant refugees who really want to settle on Bajor based on a vague prophecy despite countless reasons why that's a bad idea.

they always bring it up and the maquis person at the time says like "but this is their COMMUNITY" and its like you moron we can move your entire community to an almost identical planet in a safer place if youd accept two months of inconvenience. or you can get constantly murdered by space nazis

honestly star trek across all forms has never really made colonization of other planets remotely convincing as anything other than a mistake or a punishment. why the gently caress would any substantial number of people loving leave earth or mars or even a local space station so they can go plant poo poo on Crystalline Lifeform Victim Zone #458

mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

i am the bruce of the willis


Ghost Leviathan posted:

Yeah, I think the Maquis concept really underestimated the audience's ability to remember the setting's tenets, including that the Federation is capable of settling displaced peoples on planets that presumably aren't a political hot zone. See also that episode with the Gamma Quadrant refugees who really want to settle on Bajor based on a vague prophecy despite countless reasons why that's a bad idea.

That episode always makes me laugh, because Star Trek is really bad at numbers. The total settlers from the Gamma Quadrant? 50k people. That's a small city, like Biloxi, Mississippi, or Carson City, Nevada. That civilization is basically near total collapse/extinction. The Federation/Cardassian war mentioned in TNG resulted in "millions" of casualties per Picard, which is a comparatively REALLY low number for a conflict that lasted 23 years!

Edit: for reference, the Dominion War cost Cardassia alone nearly a billion people after just 2 years. That seems way more in line for spacefaring civilizations spread across multiple planets and crazy advanced weapons systems

mercenarynuker fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Oct 23, 2020

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

So, uh, has anyone here ever had to move when it wasn't your idea? Because let me tell you, even when it's convenient and you're getting help and going somewhere better it is loving annoying to move, and whether it's your landlord telling you that they want to remodel so it's time to go or the Federation saying welp we gave your planet to the Nazi Snake Empire, sorry, it's much worse when you HAVE to move and some resentment is to be expected.

Like I agree that the Maquis weren't very well implemented but it's not because people should be happy to pick up their lives just because the Federation says so.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Yes, actually, I have. And not once did I decide to squat in the attic and kill people over it.

It's not like they had to move because of a hyperspace overpass was being put in where their planets were going, it was a peace settlement. I'd want to probably move far away from Space Nazis if they were showing up.

Edit: And, the city would be building me a whole brand new house and paying for my move AND putting me up in a hotel while it all happens. That'd be fairly dope.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




In general it's hard to do because the Federation is generally actually pretty good at the humanitarian thing; if you ask for help, they'll give it to the best of their ability. At the start of DS9 they're giving ongoing aid to Bajor in materiel and expertise, with Sisko's job being potentially to groom them for Federation membership, but they have to get their poo poo together enough and choose whether or not to join of their own free will. And at one point after the war with the Klingons, the Federation is giving significant aid to Cardassia as well. (the industrial replicators and such)

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

CainFortea posted:

Yes, actually, I have. And not once did I decide to squat in the attic and kill people over it.

It's not like they had to move because of a hyperspace overpass was being put in where their planets were going, it was a peace settlement. I'd want to probably move far away from Space Nazis if they were showing up.

Edit: And, the city would be building me a whole brand new house and paying for my move AND putting me up in a hotel while it all happens. That'd be fairly dope.

Yeah, I mean, I get it, and I think everyone in the show knows that the treaty was not great for anyone involved. From what I understand the displaced Cardassian colonists weren't much happier about the situation, and the Maquis were actually formed as a response to their raids on formerly Federation planets (though there's definitely some ambiguity over who shot first, because that's exactly the kind of controversy Star Trek needed, haha).

I just think it's not unreasonable for people to react to "due to circumstances beyond your control, you have to move now" with something other than unreserved joy even in the Federation.

Though instead of the lovely Maquis storyline I like the first-season episode "Progress" a lot better as an exploration of this kind of thing, partly because it's as reasonable a "you have to move" situation as can be, but mostly because Brian Keith and co. are upset not because it's unfair but because they're PTSD-suffering Occupation survivors who are responding wholly out of trauma, and it's ultimately about Kira having to reconcile that shared experience with her duty to a government she's loyal to, but has been extremely critical of in the past. I don't know if I'd have recommended it for the contest but it's a standout of early DS9 for me.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Sure, I can see that as being something they could be upset about. But it's a weird fit in this universe that we watch because A) Every time it comes up the Maquis talk about "being abandoned" which is just flat out wrong and 2) This is a culture that is all about improving yourself and existing in a culture that doesn't lack for almost anything.

Basically i'm just saying that if it was like, one really unreasonable dude and his 20 closest friends he convinced to help him that would totally fit. But this big grass roots movement is just a really weird fit.

fake edit: These are folks who come from a society who puts their criminals in what is effectively theraputic gardening and i'm supposed to believe they go from from 0 to blowing up civilian transports because they didn't want to get moved with full support from one of the largest stellar political entities?

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Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




CainFortea posted:

Basically i'm just saying that if it was like, one really unreasonable dude and his 20 closest friends he convinced to help him that would totally fit.

No spoilers but the good Maquis story in DS9 is more like this.

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