Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Zoesdare
Sep 24, 2005

Still floofin

2020 has sucked giant pig balls for me for a lot of reasons. Right now though? I'm dealing with a mess of my own making in my marriage of three years (we were together ten years before marriage). I would greatly appreciate advice on solid actions I can take to work through this, or any kind of support.

Let me start by saying I grew up in an emotionally abusive home to two mentally ill parents who got me diagnosed with schizotypal personality disorder as an elementary school kid. IDK how I feel about this diagnosis now, but I have had no less than six mental health professionals express horror about this since I hit adulthood and started seeking non-church related help for my issues. I have been diagnosed for a few years now with severe anxiety, depression, and PTSD. I have a lot of trauma. I am in therapy. The hubs is aware of all of this.

Our finances are separate, and I've never been the best with mine. In the last two years we've been starting to talk about combining some things. This gives me a LOT of anxiety. First of all, I have $50k in student loan debt, and he has zero. Part of that $50k is me being broke AF after college and taking a lot of deferments. (He knows about this) Secondly, I bank with a Credit union in a different state from us because when I switched to that account, I overdrafted the previous account (it was paid, but the said they put a report on me) and now I have crippling anxiety over opening a new account even though it would benefit me financially to bank where we live. I'm terrified there is a report about that somewhere that will flag me as not being eligible for a new account, even though this happened four years ago. He wants us to have a joint account to put utilities/rent/household expenses through that we both contribute to. I think that is reasonable, but he banks conventional, and I'm doubly anxious about getting a bounce on my name being on an account with him because of that overdraft.

I did start working on rehabbing my credit score after that whole incident, and I have been reasonably successful at it, raising my score by about 180 points into the "good" range. Part of how I did that was to get a credit card and start using it and paying it on time every time. Then we moved out of state while planning a wedding and I ran a balance on it. Still paying on time every time, more than the minimum, but not paying it off. Then I got horribly depressed to the point of having suicidal ideations. I started using that card for retail therapy, for any bit of comfort, for whatever, really. I've paid it down in the last few months by $2k, but I owe $7k, and he did not know that I was carrying a balance at all.

About a year ago, I didn't take our rent check on the day before it was due because I had a migraine. The next day I forgot about it. Then I did a thing that happens often because of my anxiety, I froze up. He asked about the rent check and I said it was handled, intending to take care of it that day, but it didn't. I was so strung out anxious about it I couldn't deal with it, and instead of asking for help, or letting him know what was going on, I lied about it. He was, rightly, furious with me. At that time, he decided to just handle the rent from then on out. I had this credit card debt then.

Fast forward. We have done a cross-country move, and I have no friends out here or relations that aren't his family. I am super isolated, as I work from home and am high-risk for COVID. My anxiety has steadily been building to be off the charts. I'm trying to take control of things but it's a struggle because of my anxiety. Our landlady raised our rent by $25/mo and he hit the roof. He wanted to put all of our stuff in storage and say in his sister's guest bedroom until we bought a house. The thing that fucks me up THE most emotionally is having an unsettled home life. It was my worst nightmare. In addition to that, I'd been working up the courage to tell him about my credit card debt for a while, and his family is really pushing us to buy a house. I felt cornered, but I talked it through with my therapist, and after we had handled our lease issue with the landlady, last Sunday I sat him down and told him about the debt.

It's been a nightmare of my own making ever since. He rightly feels lied to and betrayed. He thinks the only reason I told him was house buying talk - which was definitely a factor, but I have other things going on as well that make me not want us to purchase buying a house rn. (Down payment would eat the entirety of our savings, what if the economy crashes and we're homeless?/Needing a stable home while I work on getting my anxiety under control, etc) He wanted more numbers than the numbers I had for him on Sunday, and asked me for at least an accounting of all my spending for the last six months that we could discuss. He acknowledged that I had paid down $2k of debt in a relatively short amount of time, but didn't appreciate that I just had a goal of paying it all off in a year.

I went through all my numbers for six months in two days while also working. He hasn't looked at them yet. He says he is still processing, which is incredibly fair. In fact, outside of five or six words, we didn't speak until Wednesday when I tried to bring it up. The outcome of Wednesday night's convo went like this:

1. He says I haven't done enough work.
2. While I did the numbers he asked for, he wanted more numbers and a proposal for how to take care of it from me as well.
3. He wants to know what the money was spent on and why.
4. He wants me to be discussing this in therapy, which I am, but is upset that I'm discussing the underlying issue of overspending as that is the thing he is least worried about.
5. He doesn't think I am capable of caring about this. He said he thinks I want to, but isn't sure that I have the capacity to truly care about it.
6. He wants answers, and he doesn't want to have to ask me questions. He said to answer what I would ask if I were in his situation.
7. He still needs time.

I'm not saying he's being unfair. I honestly don't think he is, but some of those things are contradictory, and some of them are the kinds of things my brain doesn't jump to on its own and that makes me feel helpless even though I truly WANT to do the work to fix this. I've set up an emergency therapy appointment tomorrow to discuss the whole situation but #5 and 6 in particular. Today I'm working on the proposal for where to go from here. What/why I will work on this weekend. I have been on maintenance with my meds since we moved here, but I made an appointment with a new psych today for a week from Monday to get my meds adjusted and hopefully be able to cope better. It was the soonest I could get in anywhere.

In the meantime, things are tense at the house. We don't speak. We eat dinner together and that is it. We haven't had any physical contact (including bumping hands when passing things) for a week. For the last two nights he has slept in a different bed. Emotionally, though I understand his need to have space to process, this is wrecking me. I need a stable home life, and this is not that. It is a situation caused by me, and my fault, but it is making it hard for me to function. Yesterday I went to a park for an hour (I live in the desert, it's hot, so that's been impossible to get out and COVID means I can't even go hide at the library to get away for a while) It was the first time I had been on my own all week, but I also feel like an rear end in a top hat for going and leaving my responsibilities.

I miss having a friend to talk to and hug. My closest friend is a four hour flight away. We're also at that stage of coupledom where most of our friends are couples friends and I don't want to bring marital drama into that sphere. I've dealt with a lot this year on top of all of this. Since July I've lost three people, and my beloved cat, I had oral surgery, a fight with my PCP about prescribing me my anxiety meds, and a pregnancy scare. I feel very isolated and alone. I feel like an absolute monster. I trying to do the best I can to deal with this situation, but I feel like no matter what I'm not going to give him what he wants. Our brains work in very different ways, and while we both know and understand that I worry that it will be one hurdle too far for the situation, so I am trying to be as proactive as I can be.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

DuckConference
May 27, 2004



quote:

a fight with my PCP about prescribing me my anxiety meds

What meds are you on and have they changed over the course of these relationship issues?

Zoesdare
Sep 24, 2005

Still floofin

It has changed. I was on an SNRI before our move because of the suicial ideations. I changed jobs and that cut my stress down so much that I eventually went off of it after about six months of stepping it down. I strongly think that when I see the psych, they will start me on something like that again. I've been on maintenance meds as-needed since then. Propranolol and Busiprone for day-to-day anxiety, Trazodone for sleep, Valium for panic attacks.

PCP didn't want to write for Trazodone, Propranolol or Valium. IDK but he doesn't care about the Buspar. I went in the day before my oral surgery to refill the Propranolol and Valium for the first time in six months and he made me feel like a junkie.

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012



7k is bad, but it's far from unmanageable. What really struck me is his behavior.

1. Why did he care about $25 a month more so much? That's insignificant.
2. If your finances are seperate, what you spent money on is not his business.
2. He knows you are isolated, and is currently freezing you out because of a relatively minor money issue

I'm not saying your actions were perfect, but if this is how he is acting right now as a response, your fear and subsequent lying seems inseperable from the ptsd and other issues you are having.

Zoesdare
Sep 24, 2005

Still floofin

The response from him and the emotional issues are definitely related. I don't know how to get around it, but I am trying. I've had this response to confrontation since I was a kid. I got accused from lying about everything when I was a kid, including things like how bad my period was. Eventually telling a nice story, or the lie that someone wanted to hear got to be a habit, and it's one I've been wrestling with ever since.

I don't know why he flies off the hook about rent increases. This is not the first time. Two apartments ago he did this over a $12 increase. We are not skint. We have $30k in his savings, we both make okay money. Aside from my credit debt, we pay our bills. The thing is it scares the gently caress out of me when it happens because moving house is emotionally a really loving huge deal for me. When I got the email from the landlady, I got physically ill because I knew he was going to blow up about it. I didn't expect the storage unit/sister in law thing, which to me sounds like a horror show. I need a safe quiet space for my home, and that would... not be it.

Our finances are separate, but he had the impression that I was paying my own way. He is, as stated, upset at the deception, but also because he feels like there is now no way to budget for buying a house. He'd been discussing homebuying with his sister and father who are really pushing us to get a house. They send property listings to him frequently. We do okay, but his parents are very well off, and his sister married a millionaire. I don't think they realize that money doesn't work the same for us budget wise. His sister wants us to be neighbors - I could inherit $$$ and not be able to afford in that neighborhood.

IDK what to do about your third point. I think he is processing, I think he is mad, I don't feel like I can ask for comfort because on Wednesday he said just making things better immediately is doing us no favors and I kind of agree with that. Technically he could pay my debt out of savings, but I'm not asking for that. I've been working to pay it down myself and I don't want to put that burden on him.

Zoesdare
Sep 24, 2005

Still floofin

poo poo, I work for a hearing health company and I have been trying to help get his grandmother into top of the line hearing aids through my company's family plan for cheap. COVID happened and that went to the wayside, but I got a message from his aunt the other day asking for my email. She sent me a groupon for roses as a thank you for trying to help her mom. I was touched, and also anxious about it. I don't feel like I deserve kindnesses like that right now, and also I feel like a fraud for accepting anything from his family because of how I messed things up with him.

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012



You deserve love and care no matter the mistakes you have made, and silent treatment for any length of time is not love nor care. That is not present in a healthy relationship, especially not for 3 days. I'm really sorry

remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably




Hell Gem

It honestly sounds like you are doing your best to get your stuff together, it is your husband that needs to put in the work to make you feel loved and supported as you get through this

bradzilla
Oct 15, 2004

Yeah, but you scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should.


Your husband sounds like a touchy rear end in a top hat, op. Melting down about a $25 rent increase? Lol that's $12.50 each.

Classon Ave. Robot
Oct 7, 2019


Yeah I'm not really seeing how that behavior is acceptable at all. This is not the way an equal partner in any relationship should be acting, especially with the loving silent treatment for days on end.

DickParasite
Dec 2, 2004



Slippery Tilde

bradzilla posted:

Your husband sounds like a touchy rear end in a top hat, op. Melting down about a $25 rent increase? Lol that's $12.50 each.

Maybe he's a CSPAM poster? J/k.

I think the other poster was wrong to trivialise the 7k in CC debt. Even if your finances are separate that can affect you both, especially for saving for a house.

Having said that - the 3 day silent treatment plus blowing his top at rent increases - the man's clearly got issues of his own. Is he in therapy? Does his behaviour send up any other red flags?

If he's open to it you should consider couple's counselling. It would help with your communication issues.

Best of luck OP.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with



Grimey Drawer

Zoesdare posted:

We have $30k in his savings

Some financial advice: Pay the $7,000 balance of that card now out of savings and have a real plan on paying that balance to your savings instead. I'd assume that card has a 22%+ APR on it. There is no reason to pay interest on that balance when you can make it go away.

As for your personal problems, I don't have a lot of sympathy for retail therapy, but I understand the root cause. Anxiety/Depression is not fun and any distraction can feel great. That said, your husband freaking out of things like a $25 increase in rent or not talking to you for days is very dumb. You both are in the wrong, but I see you trying to improve and that's good. I'd like to see where he lands on this. Ideally, he comes out of this apologizing for being stupid and grows from the experience.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Your husband actually sounds like he's in the wrong here? Your credit card debt is hardly in the "holy poo poo, everything is ruined" territory and the fact that your credit rating is increasing as you pay it off means you're dealing with it responsibly. Like you made mistakes, but relatively "mundane" ones that don't sound like they should be threatening a marriage.

I heavily sympathize with the whole financial anxiety situation. I went into similar credit card debt (actually roughly the same balance as you, but I flat-out stopped paying them and had the accounts sent to collections, and this time period also involved things like taking out payday loans). That happened like 8-9 years ago and I'm actually in good shape now (credit rating is like 740-750, which feels really great having started at 550 - I ended up hitting that 7 year point where the previous credit card delinquency was wiped from my credit report). I still feel heavy anxiety any time I use a debit card, though. Even though I know that I'm totally fine now, I remember constantly having zero/near-zero balance and overdrawing or having my card rejected, and there's an irrational part of me that still worries about that when I buy things even though it's not even possible now.

Coolness Averted
Feb 20, 2007

oh don't worry, I can't smell asparagus piss, it's in my DNA

GO HOGG WILD!


Yeah, your husband sounds way out of line here based on what you've told us.
It makes me wonder if there might be other issues or frustrations that have built up -whether strictly with you, or where he's venting all of his problems here because you're 'in the wrong' and a safe target. Is he in therapy too?

Nettle Soup
Jan 30, 2010

Oh, and Jones was there too.


Famethrowa posted:

You deserve love and care no matter the mistakes you have made, and silent treatment for any length of time is not love nor care. That is not present in a healthy relationship, especially not for 3 days. I'm really sorry

This is a thing that would absolutely break me if it was done to me. I don't deal well with silent treatment or ghosting and those that use it as a punishment rather than talking stuff out... By the end of 3 days, I'd be out of there, gently caress that.

I get the anxiety with money too, it took me years to actually be able to look at my bank account, rather than just "I roughly know how much I have, whoops the shopping bounced", I eventually broke through and got it all sorted, and then a bill was like "you thought you were paying me, BUT YOU WEREN'T HAHAhahaha" and it threw me right back out again. I check my account every time I go out to buy food even though I buy less than £10 at a time, and I still take cash enough to cover it because, well, cash can't bounce.

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD
Jul 7, 2012



Zoesdare posted:

When I got the email from the landlady, I got physically ill because I knew he was going to blow up about it.
Can you say a little more about this? What is he like when he blows up? Did he blame it on you?

While I think you have made a lot of mistakes and don't have your life under control emotionally, you are trying to make things better and with some success. If he is blowing up at you over a 25/mo rent increase in a way that makes you feel frightened, then forces both of you to move, that is beyond a red flag.

CongoJack
Nov 5, 2009

Ask Why, Asshole



7k of debt is not a trivial amount and I would be pretty pissed if I was trying to save for a house with my partner but 3 days of silent treatment? Who has the energy for that?

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010


Zoesdare posted:

Our finances are separate, and I've never been the best with mine. In the last two years we've been starting to talk about combining some things. This gives me a LOT of anxiety. First of all, I have $50k in student loan debt, and he has zero. Part of that $50k is me being broke AF after college and taking a lot of deferments. (He knows about this) Secondly, I bank with a Credit union in a different state from us because when I switched to that account, I overdrafted the previous account (it was paid, but the said they put a report on me) and now I have crippling anxiety over opening a new account even though it would benefit me financially to bank where we live. I'm terrified there is a report about that somewhere that will flag me as not being eligible for a new account, even though this happened four years ago. He wants us to have a joint account to put utilities/rent/household expenses through that we both contribute to. I think that is reasonable, but he banks conventional, and I'm doubly anxious about getting a bounce on my name being on an account with him because of that overdraft.

You're probably aware of this already, but this is classic catastrophic thinking where the anxiety steers your mind into imagining non-specific terrible world-ending things happening. Consider what the actual realistic worst case scenario is. It won't be the end of everything if you can't open a new bank account.

I mention this because the other effect catastrophic thinking has is to withdraw or avoid the stressor as much as possible. I see a pattern here, because you have also tried to avoid or conceal your financial issues and possibly your anxiety from your spouse. Does he give you anxiety?

He should definitely be more supportive, but he may not be aware or understand what effect your anxiety has on you. He may feel as though you have been giving him the silent treatment too or he has trouble understanding why you haven't communicated more with him about these issues. Couples therapy might help, because it sounds like you two have a bad feedback loop going on here.

keanureeves99
Jan 23, 2014

Guess where this lollipop's going?

CongoJack posted:

7k of debt is not a trivial amount and I would be pretty pissed if I was trying to save for a house with my partner but 3 days of silent treatment? Who has the energy for that?

Plus 50k in student loans. Btw your finances aren't really separate if you're married. You sound pretty bad with money OP. Can't speak to your husband's attitude re: context.

However, It's odd that opening a new bank account (a trivial thing) strikes you with paralyzing anxiety, but you can't seem to relate to your spouse fretting over $275 in additional yearly rent when you're 57k in debt. It's a small but meaningful amount.

HIJK
Nov 25, 2012

People were stupid, sometimes. They thought the Library was a dangerous place because of all the magical books, which was true enough, but what made it really one of the most dangerous places there could ever be was the simple fact that it was a library.


Couples counseling is the only move left here. That and paying off the debt. $57k is a lot of money, that's more than what a year's worth of my former salary.

I don't think the OP's husband is acting like a supportive spouse but considering how much debt the OP is dragging around I think he freaked out and the rent increase was the final straw in some ways. He's being a child by giving you the silent treatment and by giving you contradictory ultimatums.

From your description, you weren't being frivolous but he might not know that. Especially if your anxiety is making you freeze up and evade. Financial problems regularly destroy marriages and relationships. They fall apart because the wealthier party becomes angry at being used for their wallet. From his point of view you seem like an irresponsible spouse running up bills on his dime and then you tried to hide it from him. I've had SOs try this on me in the past including a time when I gave my girlfriend money for her rent, she blew it all on knitting needles and yarn, and then came back to me panicking and crying 5 days later begging me for more money. Because she didn't pay her rent with the cash the way she said she would. I broke up with her 6 months later.

Do you see what I'm getting at here?

OP, you should suggest couples counseling to your husband and make sure that you're humble about it. You should be prepared for the possibility that he doesn't want to continue forward with this relationship. You should get with your therapist and make a plan going forward, not just to become a better person for your spouse and yourself but how to handle your finances in a sensible way.

HIJK fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Sep 26, 2020

SolTerrasa
Sep 2, 2011



I read a sense of doom in your posts, and I know what itís like to feel like that, so I want to say itís definitely not a hopeless situation. I want to make sure that you know that this situation is very likely to be salvageable.

I agree that coupleís counseling would be a great idea. Itís often covered by insurance, which I found surprising while I was doing it. The cost could be quite low, or even zero if youíve got crazy good insurance. Iíd recommend you figure that out before broaching the subject because your husband seems unlikely to be too receptive to the idea of spending money right now.

You wonít be the first ďhid my debt from my husbandĒ case the counselor has seen - you probably wonít even be the only one on that particular day. A lot of couples counselors in my area advertise this as one of the specific things they specialize in, itís that common. They will probably be able to help.

81sidewinder
Sep 8, 2014

Buying stocks on the day of the crash

Do not buy a home. That needs to be put on hold until you have your anxiety managed much, much better and husband is on board with you emotionally and financially.

A related note - it is a seller's market in most of the country right now. Fires causing lumber to go up, factory shut downs for other parts of homes becoming scarce. Waiting another year might be a very good idea even if you are ready (you aren't)

81sidewinder
Sep 8, 2014

Buying stocks on the day of the crash

HIJK posted:

Couples counseling is the only move left here. That and paying off the debt. $57k is a lot of money, that's more than what a year's worth of my former salary.

I don't think the OP's husband is acting like a supportive spouse but considering how much debt the OP is dragging around I think he freaked out and the rent increase was the final straw in some ways. He's being a child by giving you the silent treatment and by giving you contradictory ultimatums.

From your description, you weren't being frivolous but he might not know that. Especially if your anxiety is making you freeze up and evade. Financial problems regularly destroy marriages and relationships. They fall apart because the wealthier party becomes angry at being used for their wallet. From his point of view you seem like an irresponsible spouse running up bills on his dime and then you tried to hide it from him. I've had SOs try this on me in the past including a time when I gave my girlfriend money for her rent, she blew it all on knitting needles and yarn, and then came back to me panicking and crying 5 days later begging me for more money. Because she didn't pay her rent with the cash the way she said she would. I broke up with her 6 months later.

Do you see what I'm getting at here?

OP, you should suggest couples counseling to your husband and make sure that you're humble about it. You should be prepared for the possibility that he doesn't want to continue forward with this relationship. You should get with your therapist and make a plan going forward, not just to become a better person for your spouse and yourself but how to handle your finances in a sensible way.

You're about ten steps down the line from where OP needs to be today. She is unable to change her checking account to a local bank or consistently drop off a rent check. She needs medical help, and a supportive spouse.

Why he is not fulfilled in the relationship is very relevant for down the line, sure. She seems like she is in a crisis and he's pushing to buy a home. That poo poo needs to be shut down, like now.

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant



It sounds like your husband is already dealing with a lot as well. Open a joint account, and let him be in charge of finances because tbh you've kind of hosed up.

dont skimp on the shrimp
Apr 23, 2008



I get the impression that the guy seems to kinda be a spreadsheets and predictability person. The blowups over a small rent increase could be because they upset his calculations, same as to why he has a hard time to manage you not being totally upfront about the economic situation. It makes him feel like he's falling behind whatever curve he was hoping to achieve.

Is he the kind of person that dislikes surprises and likes to be able to plan his days well in advance? The kind of friend you kind of have to book appointments with rather than just go out and do stuff with?

What is it that you saw in him that made you stay for these 13 years?

Zoesdare
Sep 24, 2005

Still floofin

DickParasite posted:

Having said that - the 3 day silent treatment plus blowing his top at rent increases - the man's clearly got issues of his own. Is he in therapy? Does his behaviour send up any other red flags?

If he's open to it you should consider couple's counselling. It would help with your communication issues.

Best of luck OP.

He isn't in therapy, I hope someday he will consider it. No other red flags. I'm kind of sad that it sounds like I made him out to be cruel, he really isn't. This is just a very extraordinary situation and he is really struggling with it. I too think couples counseling would help us.

Canine Blues Arooo posted:

Some financial advice: Pay the $7,000 balance of that card now out of savings and have a real plan on paying that balance to your savings instead. I'd assume that card has a 22%+ APR on it. There is no reason to pay interest on that balance when you can make it go away.

As for your personal problems, I don't have a lot of sympathy for retail therapy, but I understand the root cause. Anxiety/Depression is not fun and any distraction can feel great. That said, your husband freaking out of things like a $25 increase in rent or not talking to you for days is very dumb. You both are in the wrong, but I see you trying to improve and that's good. I'd like to see where he lands on this. Ideally, he comes out of this apologizing for being stupid and grows from the experience.

So yesterday night we sat down and put together a plan. We also talked for two and a half hours about the whole situation. It really did a lot of both of us, I think. We are going to pay the CC debt out of savings, and I am going to pay what I was paying on my card into savings over the course of the next eight months.

Ytlaya posted:

Your husband actually sounds like he's in the wrong here? Your credit card debt is hardly in the "holy poo poo, everything is ruined" territory and the fact that your credit rating is increasing as you pay it off means you're dealing with it responsibly. Like you made mistakes, but relatively "mundane" ones that don't sound like they should be threatening a marriage.

I heavily sympathize with the whole financial anxiety situation...

He really isn't in the wrong. This is a thing that in part caused me anxiety because I knew it would upset him, and I didn't tell him until it got much more out of hand. His feelings on this are really legit, and I don't want to minimize that at all. This is a thing that I did, and it has more implications on our relationship than just the money. Anxiety is really hard to fight, and it is a struggle for him to understand. It took him a long time to understand that me asking for reassurance about basic things in our relationship was not me lacking in trust in him, but the voice of my anxiety.

Nettle Soup posted:

This is a thing that would absolutely break me if it was done to me. I don't deal well with silent treatment or ghosting and those that use it as a punishment rather than talking stuff out... By the end of 3 days, I'd be out of there, gently caress that.

It was very hard. We started engaging with each other again on Friday. He told me what he hoped to accomplish over the weekend, and we watched some stupid netflix together and went for a walk. As awful as it was, I prefer that to what would have happened in the house I grew up in, which would have been screaming, horrible abusive language, and the potential for a physical element. Him needing time I something I understand and actually appreciate about our relationship. That doesn't make it a cake walk though.

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:

Can you say a little more about this? What is he like when he blows up? Did he blame it on you?

While I think you have made a lot of mistakes and don't have your life under control emotionally, you are trying to make things better and with some success. If he is blowing up at you over a 25/mo rent increase in a way that makes you feel frightened, then forces both of you to move, that is beyond a red flag.

He gets very visibly aggravated, storms around the house, and yells. It isn't directed at me, but because of the yelling and the fact that it has the ability to affect our living situation, it is very triggering to me. Honestly, this is more about my own PTSD than anything to do with him.

Fruits of the sea posted:

You're probably aware of this already, but this is classic catastrophic thinking where the anxiety steers your mind into imagining non-specific terrible world-ending things happening. Consider what the actual realistic worst case scenario is. It won't be the end of everything if you can't open a new bank account.

I mention this because the other effect catastrophic thinking has is to withdraw or avoid the stressor as much as possible. I see a pattern here, because you have also tried to avoid or conceal your financial issues and possibly your anxiety from your spouse. Does he give you anxiety?

He should definitely be more supportive, but he may not be aware or understand what effect your anxiety has on you. He may feel as though you have been giving him the silent treatment too or he has trouble understanding why you haven't communicated more with him about these issues. Couples therapy might help, because it sounds like you two have a bad feedback loop going on here.

I am aware of it, and I feel pretty hopeless about ever being able to make the emotional part of my brain get that. It is an ongoing pattern, and it is something I have been working on in therapy for a long time. He gives me anxiety in that he is a different person than I am, and just one more person I care about who I will inevitably dissapoint and let down. I'm not saying that's rational - I know it isn't, but that's where my emotional baggage puts me.

Him being supportive of my anxiety has been a learning experience for both of us. A few years ago I brought him with me to a therapy appointment with the hopes of getting him to consider going himself. That didn't work out, but my therapist managed a really good and eye-opening session where he learned a lot about how to separate my anxiety from me, and help me cope.

keanureeves99 posted:

Plus 50k in student loans. Btw your finances aren't really separate if you're married. You sound pretty bad with money OP. Can't speak to your husband's attitude re: context.

However, It's odd that opening a new bank account (a trivial thing) strikes you with paralyzing anxiety, but you can't seem to relate to your spouse fretting over $275 in additional yearly rent when you're 57k in debt. It's a small but meaningful amount.

I can relate to it, but him talking the most nuclear options two days before our lease ends is not something that I can handle emotionally. Especially not with as angry as he gets about it.

HIJK posted:

From your description, you weren't being frivolous but he might not know that. Especially if your anxiety is making you freeze up and evade. Financial problems regularly destroy marriages and relationships. They fall apart because the wealthier party becomes angry at being used for their wallet. From his point of view you seem like an irresponsible spouse running up bills on his dime and then you tried to hide it from him. I've had SOs try this on me in the past including a time when I gave my girlfriend money for her rent, she blew it all on knitting needles and yarn, and then came back to me panicking and crying 5 days later begging me for more money. Because she didn't pay her rent with the cash the way she said she would. I broke up with her 6 months later.

Do you see what I'm getting at here?

OP, you should suggest couples counseling to your husband and make sure that you're humble about it. You should be prepared for the possibility that he doesn't want to continue forward with this relationship. You should get with your therapist and make a plan going forward, not just to become a better person for your spouse and yourself but how to handle your finances in a sensible way.

Part of our talk last night was about financial equity in our relationship. He pays the rent, I pay everything else. That's how it has been since we moved in together a decade ago. Everything else can be a lot, and it includes vet bills and my (not inconsiderable) medical expenses. He makes a lot more money than I do, and I really don't consider his money to be ours. That was really upsetting to him to hear yesterday, and it speaks to a longer-term issue for us to work on.

Neither of us see this as a relationship extinction level event, not that either of us see it as a good thing either. Having had that sit-down yesterday, though, makes me more capable of understanding that on an emotional level.

SolTerrasa posted:

I read a sense of doom in your posts, and I know what itís like to feel like that, so I want to say itís definitely not a hopeless situation. I want to make sure that you know that this situation is very likely to be salvageable.

I agree that coupleís counseling would be a great idea. Itís often covered by insurance, which I found surprising while I was doing it. The cost could be quite low, or even zero if youíve got crazy good insurance. Iíd recommend you figure that out before broaching the subject because your husband seems unlikely to be too receptive to the idea of spending money right now.

You wonít be the first ďhid my debt from my husbandĒ case the counselor has seen - you probably wonít even be the only one on that particular day. A lot of couples counselors in my area advertise this as one of the specific things they specialize in, itís that common. They will probably be able to help.

Thank you for this. I'm on a much more even keel today, but over the weekend I got comfort from this message.

81sidewinder posted:

Do not buy a home. That needs to be put on hold until you have your anxiety managed much, much better and husband is on board with you emotionally and financially.

A related note - it is a seller's market in most of the country right now. Fires causing lumber to go up, factory shut downs for other parts of homes becoming scarce. Waiting another year might be a very good idea even if you are ready (you aren't)

I agree that we shouldn't be buying a home right now. I think I'm the only dissent on that, and his entire family is putting on the pressure. We have agreed that we should do a pre-qual just to see what the bank says about our financial state so we can plan, but other than that we're pushing off the actual homebuying talk for a while, at least.

dont skimp on the shrimp posted:

I get the impression that the guy seems to kinda be a spreadsheets and predictability person. The blowups over a small rent increase could be because they upset his calculations, same as to why he has a hard time to manage you not being totally upfront about the economic situation. It makes him feel like he's falling behind whatever curve he was hoping to achieve.

Is he the kind of person that dislikes surprises and likes to be able to plan his days well in advance? The kind of friend you kind of have to book appointments with rather than just go out and do stuff with?

What is it that you saw in him that made you stay for these 13 years?

He is very analytical. He's an engineer, and to that end very much fits the stereotype of one. Not to the extent of people needing to make appointments with him, but I also think that our relationship dynamic is probably what keeps him from getting to that point.

As to what I see in him. He is really, truly, kind. He loves me, and has believed in me since the beginning. He is my partner in art, and a great comfort to me, and has been my best friend for a really long time.

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012



I'm really really glad you two had a productive talk. It seems like it recentered you which is good. I may have responded a little more strongly then I should have with regards to the communication, just because of my own past experiences.

it sounds like you two have some work ahead of you, and I think couple's counseling is a great idea. were I in your situation, I would probably state my needs regarding communication--and how much that kind of freeze-out and jumping to nuclear options--scares the piss out of my PTSD reptile brain.

I wish you both luck, you both can do it

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS

Zoesdare posted:



He gets very visibly aggravated, storms around the house, and yells. It isn't directed at me, but because of the yelling and the fact that it has the ability to affect our living situation, it is very triggering to me. Honestly, this is more about my own PTSD than anything to do with him.


get this guy into anger management stat


Also, you're normalising this hosed up man-child behaviour so maybe that's a topic for the couples' therapy session, too

Classon Ave. Robot
Oct 7, 2019


Yeah that is not an appropriate way for a grown man to be acting, that is indeed some pathetic man-child garbage. Being an engineer doesn't make it okay to also be a piece of poo poo, even if almost all of them are anywyas.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




yeah that's not an acceptable reaction over a $275 annual expense, when you know that as a renter your landlord can do whatever the gently caress they want whenever. he should get his own therapy

I think you would strongly benefit from combining finances and letting your husband control them at least for the time being. He seems responsible and willing in that respect and it would get something that causes you significant anxiety off your plate.

A Fancy Hat
Nov 18, 2016

Always remember that the President is dumber than the dumbest person you've ever met by a wide margin


When I read your first post, I thought of two things immediately:

1) Her husband's behavior reminds me of an ex-girlfriend
2) I'll bet her husband is an engineer

I dated this girl for almost 2 years, and a lot of things your husband are doing remind me of things she did:

The insistence on having to know every last thing I spent money on
Freaking out over extremely minor things that she couldn't plan for (similar to your husband freaking out over a fairly normal rent increase)
Loooong periods where she wouldn't speak to me

All of that poo poo wreaked havoc with my anxiety and it's no doubt doing the same to you. If you've been with him this long you probably don't even realize how often he's freaking out over stuff, at least that was my experience.

When you had the conversation about finances and your debt, did he ever offer to help? Or was it all placed on you? Likewise - does he tell you about what he spends money on?

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012



Zoesdare posted:




I agree that we shouldn't be buying a home right now. I think I'm the only dissent on that, and his entire family is putting on the pressure. We have agreed that we should do a pre-qual just to see what the bank says about our financial state so we can plan, but other than that we're pushing off the actual homebuying talk for a while, at least.


Hold up, I missed this.

Why is his family involved?? Your phrasing makes it sound like your husband + his family is outvoting you which is not how it works. They need to gently caress right off, and hopefully he is actively supportive of you telling them to back off.

So you are isolated, surrounded by only his family, and they are influencing decision making about the largest possible purchase you'll likely make? A forest of red flags just popped up for me.

dont skimp on the shrimp
Apr 23, 2008



Zoesdare posted:

He is very analytical. He's an engineer, and to that end very much fits the stereotype of one. Not to the extent of people needing to make appointments with him, but I also think that our relationship dynamic is probably what keeps him from getting to that point.

As to what I see in him. He is really, truly, kind. He loves me, and has believed in me since the beginning. He is my partner in art, and a great comfort to me, and has been my best friend for a really long time.

Personally, I have a really hard time dealing with those kind of friends since it kills any type of spontaneity. However, if you're fine with this you should probably talk with him in how he manages his discontent. Let him know it's fine to get angry, but that he should find ways to express his anger in ways that don't trigger you. This should enable you to have more trust in his ability to handle his anger in more appropriate ways, and be more forward with stuff like the debt, which will make it easier for him to fit into his "spreadsheet", instead of everything coming out at once.

Otherwise I think it'll break down the relationship if you're constantly gonna have to be on guard for any of his mood breakouts, and feel that you have to hide things away so you don't trigger him.

Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
i like nice words


KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

I think you would strongly benefit from combining finances and letting your husband control them at least for the time being. He seems responsible and willing in that respect and it would get something that causes you significant anxiety off your plate.
She's already completely isolated and he's emotionally abusive. Giving up control of her own finances is a terrible idea.

op "he's not abusive!"

I hear that he's not as bad as your parents, but that doesn't make his behavior okay. Giving you the silent treatment for days is abusive. Storming around the house screaming, "but not at you," is abusive. Getting mad when you ask for reassurance is at the least a big red flag. This is not about your PTSD, it isn't your fault for being too sensitive, nobody would be okay with a guy storming around their apartment screaming. It freaks out everyone, even people with zero mental health issues. They would tolerate it a lot less than you do.

I hear he's kind and he loves you. Abusers are kind and loving a lot. They don't act like assholes 24/7 because then nobody would stick around for long enough to be abused.

I think at this level it's plausible to claim he's doing it out of cluelessness. If you think so, what matters is what he does about it now. Will he agree to more couples counseling and stop behaving in these ways? Or will he say he's fine and you're the one who has to change? Or will he go to counseling but somehow use it to make you feel worse?

keanureeves99
Jan 23, 2014

Guess where this lollipop's going?

some pretty bad advice in here. The husband in this scenario is being put in the position of micro-manage OP, or end up in more debt. If he gets off on doing that, I'd say run, but sounds like he hates it as much as you do.

Remember, if you're married, your finances are NOT separate. A divorce lawyer will not care that "he paid for rent and I paid for everything else." Interest on your student loans is as much his burden as it is yours. Imagine the exasperation it would cause someone to hear a persistent willful ignorance of that fact.

keanureeves99
Jan 23, 2014

Guess where this lollipop's going?

also... the difference between a $275/yr rent increase and buying a house isn't $275/yr. The difference is every cent of the rent check going to the bank to pay down a mortgage instead of to your landlord. It's tremendously bad timing to bring that up in an argument over finances, and an even worse idea than that in the current housing market, but writing that off as a knee-jerk reaction seems stupid to me.

Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
i like nice words


keanureeves99 posted:

Remember, if you're married, your finances are NOT separate. Interest on your student loans is as much his burden as it is yours. Imagine the exasperation it would cause someone to hear a persistent willful ignorance of that fact.
This is completely wrong. If she took out the loans and went to school before they married, the debts are all hers. That's true even in community property states (and there are only 9 of those).

If she incurred the debt during their marriage, that's when it could be a different story. Even then, prenups exist.

BB2K
Oct 9, 2012


naw man stopping around the house yelling at no one over $300 a year aint cool or normal

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with



Grimey Drawer

keanureeves99 posted:

also... the difference between a $275/yr rent increase and buying a house isn't $275/yr. The difference is every cent of the rent check going to the bank to pay down a mortgage instead of to your landlord. It's tremendously bad timing to bring that up in an argument over finances, and an even worse idea than that in the current housing market, but writing that off as a knee-jerk reaction seems stupid to me.

If buying a house were simply an issue of 'paying a mortgage vs paying a landlord', then everyone would own a house, but they don't. Just deciding to buy a house because you don't want to pay a landlord is not something most people just get to do.

quote:

Why is his family involved?? Your phrasing makes it sound like your husband + his family is outvoting you which is not how it works. They need to gently caress right off, and hopefully he is actively supportive of you telling them to back off.

Echoing this very loudly. Do not be pressured to do anything, especially really big things like kids or a house. Kindly tell his family to gently caress off because that is a decision that is made by two people, not by your husband + his family.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Thanatosian
Apr 16, 2013

Angrier, Bitterer Man


Grimey Drawer

Anne Whateley posted:

This is completely wrong. If she took out the loans and went to school before they married, the debts are all hers. That's true even in community property states (and there are only 9 of those).

If she incurred the debt during their marriage, that's when it could be a different story. Even then, prenups exist.
This is not necessarily true, some student loans can go after your spouse even if you incurred them before marriage in America.

That being said, a couple of things: I work in finance, one (it sounds like very small) black mark on your ChexSystems check (which is what banks/credit unions use for deposit accounts, not your credit score) is not a big deal at all. You really don't need to worry about it.

And on the house thing: do you actually want to buy a house in this place it sounds like you've fairly recently moved to, where you have no support system/friends/people you know outside of your husband? Like, it sounds like he and his family have decided that you and him are buying a house, and that's the end of it. You definitely have a right to have an opinion about this, even if your opinion disagrees with theirs.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply