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DoubleCakes posted:I finished it yesterday and I've been thinking a lot about the finale. It was a little weird seeing Peggy and Stan get together. It felt very series finale in a way that I wouldn't expect for Mad Men, like something off of Gilmore Girls or the like. I guess Peggy turned down Joan's offer but I guess that makes sense. Peggy has conformist tendencies which is maybe why she turned down Joan but I can imagine her quitting McCann in a year or so and working for Joan's production company. I have many thoughts about both of these finale choices. Hard agree on the weirdness of Peggy/Stan. Not that I think they don't make sense or that I didn't want them together, but placing this very third-act romcom beat at the end of her story felt kind of pat in a way I didn't love. The "person-to-person" aspect of it happening via phonecall felt kind of forced, and I think I'd have preferred it if they were just together, if it was something that incidentally had happened vs. something served up like her narrative reward. I said this previously in this thread, but it hits as a kind of, "see, she can have it all" concession, which didn't seem like the kind of thing the show was interested in. I'm way more ambivalent about Joan's ending, with and without respect to Peggy. On one hand, I viewed Peggy's story throughout as being about career recognition, that her endpoint was running the business, being her own version of Don. And I saw Joan as a necessary complement to that; Peggy was an ambitious but naive go-getter, while Joan was cynical but incredibly resilient and adept. They clashed because their perspectives on navigating femininity in a sexist industry were very different, but they were ultimately more aligned than not. Harris-Olson would've been a great way to literalize this synthesis. But, it also kicks rear end that Joan still chooses herself, makes a go of it on her own. And Peggy already got a tremendous sendoff, it just happened several episodes earlier with Burger Chef.
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Apr 9, 2024 02:34
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| # ? Apr 16, 2024 10:59 |
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here's my thought on the ending of the show I think peggy's ending being so neat and tidy is the most overt example of what the show is trying to do with its last two episodes. for all of these characters we've followed for a decade, the audience is given quite a bit of closure in these last moments... but throughout its runtime, the show has been constantly examining and juxtaposing the relationship between ideas and reality, the advertisement versus the actual product, what you want versus what's expected of you. the endings of the characters of mad men are pretty straightforward, but that very straightforwardness invites doubt. what are we being sold, and does it provide closure? that question is the fundamental point of the show. a literal reading of the coke commercial might suggest that, within the canon of the show, don goes on to create it and negate his growth, synthesizing his experience into a product. but I think its purpose is less diagetic. I think the coke commercial is a response not just to don's "ending," but to everyone's "endings." it is a reflection of what the show has given us for each character in the last two episodes. pete reunites his family and escapes the job he hates; peggy gets to have work and love without sacrificing either; joan takes charge of her own destiny; roger finds love and fulfillment with an equal; don learns to accept and forgive himself. even betty's and sally's ending can be seen as a passing of the torch, a recognition by each of the humanity in the other. after season upon season of ups and downs, people growing and then frustratingly regressing, we're being sold a happy ending. but, it's not an ending for the characters; they will go on to live their lives. and maybe don's latest revelation doesn't stick and he tumbles further into crisis. maybe peggy grows to ignore stan for work and he grows to resent her. maybe roger and pete cheat on their wives and ruin their cushy jobs. maybe joan trades one hostile work environment for another, this time with cocaine! with each of these characters, we're being offered a coke filled up with love. do we really want to live with the possible—and altogether probable—reality that these happy endings go on to deteriorate into tragedy? kalel fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Apr 9, 2024 |
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Apr 9, 2024 03:34
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The funny thing about Peggy and Stan is that it looks like it comes totally out of left field, but when you re-watch the series? Totally obvious that it is happening. By the time the kid staples her hand, you're sitting there like "how was I this oblivious about it?"
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Apr 9, 2024 04:24
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Peggy in an earlier episode on a phonecall trying to put on a seductive voice and telling Stan that she'll let him gently caress her if he comes over and kills the mouse for her, and his amused (paraphrasing),"No you won't!  " response cracks me up.In retrospect (series finale), their relationship almost more than any other (maybe, arguably 1st season Pete?) is packed to the brim with sexual... well, not tension so much... sexual energy I guess. From her weaponizing nudity to humble him, to their long phone conversations sharing their innermost thoughts and desires, to his drugged up attempt to seduce her, to even their frequent personality clashes and sparks of ire, there has always been a charged chemistry between them. It's just that it was "just" friendship for such a long time that it crept up on both of them (and the viewer) that they'd fallen for each other. Personally I loved it, even if I was surprised by it. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Apr 9, 2024 |
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Apr 9, 2024 04:51
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My issue with Peggy and Stan isn't that it doesn't make sense, it just feels strained that they waited to the final episode for them to come together. It was very rom-com. As for Ken another character that grew on me a lot. I'll say it again it's pretty sad for him to end up where he is when he had an opportunity to pursue something more personal. Ultimately though, Don having a breakdown at the retreat and literally sitting down by the phone– unsure what to do– was probably his lowest moment. The part where Leonard is telling his story on how no one really sees him and Don walks up to him and joins in crying is the most vulnerable Don had been throughout the story. I truly believe that Don dies at that retreat and Dick Whitman is revived. If there's any person who gets a legitimate happy ending, I would assume it's him. He seems at peace in the end and maybe it's real peace. I'm still thinking about how the show ends with that Coca-Cola commercial. Why does it end with that? It seems very ironic– that the show would flash a commercial that's about a fake promise of unity through the sale of a soft drink.
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Apr 10, 2024 02:33
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DoubleCakes posted:
I remember watching the finale at the time, and noticing the clothes of several of the people at the retreat were like the coke commercial. It was not out of the blue or a gotcha. Now, maybe some people wouldn't be able to pick that out while watching at the time, but I definitely did. The ending works because it still offers debate on what it really does mean. Do you want to believe that everything Don just did ended up being cynical ploy just to sell sugar water (as you think right now?) Or can you believe that the actual message of unity and brotherhood of man, no matter if coming in a literal commercial, is something that Don learned and now appreciates? Or somewhere in the middle? Do you think Don is really going to change? You can really analyze this ending just as much as the Sopranos. I like it alot more than the Wire or Breaking Bad's more "definitive" endings. https://tvline.com/interviews/mad-men-finale-matthew-weiner-interview-don-wrote-coke-ad-614833/ quote:For those of you who need to hear it straight from Mad Men creator Matthew Weiner‘s mouth: Don (and not Peggy) wrote the Coke ad. GoutPatrol fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Apr 10, 2024 |
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Apr 10, 2024 02:55
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quote:Do you want to believe that everything Don just did ended up being cynical ploy just to sell sugar water (as you think right now?) No, Don didn't work that way. Don was good at advertising because of his sincerity. The one time he tried to use cynicism to sell something was Hershey and he couldn't go through with it. The feeling may not have lasted (I think it probably didn't, like Roger's LSD it wore off), but when he was making it he was being honest about what he was feeling at the time.
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Apr 10, 2024 03:17
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I will say this about the ending, though this finale was still a few years before the thing I'm comparing it with. It shows to me that Coca-Cola has always had its finger on the pulse (outside that one time with new coke, but even then, the fact that the company did a 180 so fast shows that they do pay attention and they care) and there is a sincerity in their campaigns. My point of comparison is, of course, the Live for Now campaign for Pepsi
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Apr 10, 2024 03:49
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DoubleCakes posted:My issue with Peggy and Stan isn't that it doesn't make sense, it just feels strained that they waited to the final episode for them to come together. It was very rom-com. Kinda, but it does feel more organic than a lot of TV show "OK we're ending so wrap it all up." SCP itself ending threw everyone into a major life change decision point. Stan kinda had to shoot his shot then.
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Apr 10, 2024 04:54
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if Don was allowed to print the “jumping off point” campaign, coca-cola would be his third best ad after that and Carousel all of them as previously mentioned were 100% sincere
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Apr 10, 2024 10:30
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I'm going to be totally honest and say that I thought his Hawaii ad was great and I didn't understand why everyone was hesitant about it. After reading Jerusalem's post about the episode my thoughts were "oh, ok, I can see how it can be read that way. But what percentage of the audience would actually take away the message that a hotel chain wants you to commit suicide? Surely that percentage would be small" and then "how many loving times has this stupid A Star Is Born movie been done?! Jesus Christ!"
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Apr 10, 2024 16:43
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The Hawai'i ad is good. Though, to this day, the Don pitch I neither liked nor understood was Jantzen. "So well built, we can't show you the second floor." What? Why would a building's craftsmanship mean you couldn't or shouldn't see the second floor? The censorship bar is a clever idea compositionally, but that tagline is a total non-sequitur.
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Apr 10, 2024 20:58
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Xealot posted:The Hawai'i ad is good. Though, to this day, the Don pitch I neither liked nor understood was Jantzen. "So well built, we can't show you the second floor." What? Why would a building's craftsmanship mean you couldn't or shouldn't see the second floor? The censorship bar is a clever idea compositionally, but that tagline is a total non-sequitur. you could interpret it as don's hubris as a partner and founder taking root. but I agree, it only sounds good because it's coming out of jon hamm's mouth
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Apr 10, 2024 23:08
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Xealot posted:The Hawai'i ad is good. Though, to this day, the Don pitch I neither liked nor understood was Jantzen. "So well built, we can't show you the second floor." What? Why would a building's craftsmanship mean you couldn't or shouldn't see the second floor? The censorship bar is a clever idea compositionally, but that tagline is a total non-sequitur. "Well Built" is commonly used as a euphemism for "busty" and the ad is a ribald pun on the double-meaning; e.g. "this house(woman) is so well-built(large breasted), we have to censor the second floor(her breasts)."
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Apr 11, 2024 03:37
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Peggy: Sex sells Season 2 Don: You need to be better than that  Jantzen: We don't like your ad that makes people think about titties. Season 4 Don: I'LL loving KILL YOU! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
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Apr 11, 2024 06:58
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plainswalker75 posted:"Well Built" is commonly used as a euphemism for "busty" and the ad is a ribald pun on the double-meaning; e.g. "this house(woman) is so well-built(large breasted), we have to censor the second floor(her breasts)." derp 
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Apr 11, 2024 12:21
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