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R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



Jerusalem posted:

Oh it's definitely Don's voice, I just think it's the "guide's" words, if that makes sense. He's standing there telling Roger not to look in the mirror, that he's okay and everything is okay, and to go be in the truth with his wife, but Roger sees and hears him as Don because Don is somebody whose opinion he actually respects, so his mind replaces the guide with Don instead.

That's how I saw it anyway. I love that scene, all the little disjointed slightly off elements - some of which stand out and that he notices, others (like his reflection being slightly out of sync) he isn't consciously aware of. It really captures the hyper-real unreality of a first trip (at least in my experience!).

"everything is ok. you are ok" is also a deliberate echo of don's "it's toasted" pitch from the pilot. don's even wearing a similar suit

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R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



roomtone posted:

The Don thing is interesting, because now it seems like that Roger looks up to Don in a way that was ambiguous before this. He obviously likes and respects him but the idea that Don is the rock Roger summons to ground himself here is pretty funny. The line Don uses yeah, is an echo of the toasted pitch, but it's also basically the idealised, advertised image of Don, which apparently Roger either believes in or finds comforting.

which is a parallel that makes even more sense in the context of the pilot. mad men presented us with an "ideal" of that era and has spent the rest of its runtime taking that ideal apart piece by piece, starting with the very last scene of the very first episode. roger's subconscious sees don as we saw him in the lucky strike pitch ó a steady and reliable genius.

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



emile is more of a caricature than any other person on the show, i'd argue, and it's one of the series' weak points. we haven't yet reached the moment that makes this eminently clear (mlk assassination) but there's hints of it here.

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



MightyJoe36 posted:

The line "I don't think about you at all." comes from an Ayn Rand novel (The Fountainhead). I'm wondering if that's a call back to Season 1 when Cooper told Don to read the book and learn about her.

he recommended atlas shrugged in that episode but that's not a distinct enough phrase to me that it comes off as an intentional reference

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



the back half of this season is just body blow after body blow. it probably is the best in the series, all things considered

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



sebmojo posted:

every now and then i think about them shaving his hair back a little more each season, and chuckle.

if i recall correctly he did that on his own initiative

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



the "it's not your tooth that's rotten" is maybe the biggest over the top sledgehammer of a moment since the pilot. mad men is pretty good about threading the needle with things that in other shows would be the stuff of melodrama, but they poke themselves occasionally

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



Jerusalem posted:

Season 5 Retrospective

Ken is playing a dangerous game by the end of Season 5, which may end up blowing up in his face.

lmao

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



Vitruvian Manic posted:

You folks know all he is doing is a shot-for-shot on the episodes.

Like, you can do that on your own and just rewatch.

this is extremely uncharitable. there's plenty of value in having another pair of eyes observing a show you think you've dissected thoroughly

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



oh wait you're the latest rereg of shbobd or whatever his name was. please continue being a huge rear end in a top hat for no discernible reason

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



kalel posted:

I also feel like the scene where Sandy and Betty talk in the kitchen is way too long. Sandy's character in general seems to have a disproportionate amount of screentime in relation to what her character contributes to the show. It seems her only purpose narratively is to get Betty to be jealous and to realize that young hobos exist. Sandy is given the introduction and initial screentime of an important recurring character but she disappears from the show and from every character's memory after the end of the next episode. maybe Jerusalem will give his thoughts about the character next time but next time will be his only opportunity lol

you think betty's desire to "rescue" this obviously talented girl from what she sees as a ruinous future is about jealousy? there are pretty obvious parallels between betty's youth and sandy's, and reasons why betty might be looking back and seeing mistakes she's made and time she's wasted. that's not jealousy, it's regret. don has a similar journey over several episodes in season 7 with the much-maligned diana.

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



Gaius Marius posted:

Peggy is Catholic, of course her whole family is voting for Kennedy.

"I love Bobby Kennedy."

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



jerusalem being this mad at the EXISTENCE of don and sylvia's affair makes me greatly look forward to favors

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



ulvir posted:

only just now remembered that this is the season where not only do SCDP and CGC join up, itís also the season where Cutler gets everyone high on speed or whatever it is, jesus does the show move fast from here on out

it's just b vitamins and a mild stimulant

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



it actually is the same actor playing both Brothel Teen Dick Whitman and I'm A Whore Child Dick Whitman

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



i always read "you got your own room" as implying that's the reason abigail is sleeping with "uncle mack" rather than an invitation to crank one out

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



despite peggy/elizabeth moss' undeniable knack for presenting, "pass the heinz" is leagues better, so much so i always thought it was odd these were the pitches the writers chose to show how far along peggy had come. we're meant to think they were fairly evenly matched but that was never my impression

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



for me "the crash" isn't the turning point, it's "this is where i grew up" at the end of the season. it's of course important to learn about this event in don's youth which scarred him forever, but he's still not confronting it until after he flames out in the hershey meeting and decides to be more honest with his kids.

i don't hate season 7 like some people do but much like "face off" could have been the last episode of breaking bad the series could have ended with that moment and it would have been immensely satisfying.

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



GoutPatrol posted:

As a new father, it took until we came home from the hospital and then it didn't really hit like it was love at first sight. The Bobby conversation hit me pretty hard when watching because growing up with my step parents already in my life as early as I can remember...I can think things I said when I was a little kid that could have hit that way. You don't mean it to hit that way...but they will.

Don complaining with Megan about love is connected to his big conversation with Rachel in season 1. "What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons." Him talking about wanting to love his kids this way...sounds like him falling for his own (advertising) bullshit? To talk about this idea of "love isn't real" so smoothly, so confidently 7 years ago, and now we see the darker, uglier side. His love for his children can be seen in the Carousel - growing organically based on his own experiences with them.

but that whole speech was almost immediately revealed as a masquerade. rachel menken doesn't buy it for a second and neither do we

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



hey lieutenant...want to get into some trouble

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



Lady Radia posted:

I dunno why, but for some reason I just remembered the scene when Don and Ted go to a Japanese restaurant to .. get familiar with the Japanese auto execs :psyduck: hilarious

not just any japanese restaurant, benihana

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



bobby cannavale is fun to watch as always but the show really should have died with jimmy darmody

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



the historical revisionism as regards the 60s is almost always readily apparent in any media set in the era released decades later. now that we're many years removed and its nascent radicalism was throttled in the crib with the state-backed annihilation of the panthers, people can safely pretend they were always against the vietnam war and in favor of the protests. that gets reflected in characters who are wholly sympathetic to the new left, contrary to their social and class positions.

in reality many, many people cheered on the cops and thought the kids at kent state had it coming. i've always enjoyed that carnation scene because it is a far more accurate portrayal of people's real views. you get this with stuff about mccarthyism as well, like good night and good luck and the abysmal being the ricardos. every character is vehemently against huac even though anticommunism was rampant. it's horseshit. the us is and was reactionary and any struggle for progress encountered massive resistance from every quarter.

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



Gaius Marius posted:

Having now watched the whole saga. Dons character is very similar to Antoine Doinel, but with an even worse childhood.

hey now. don would NEVER steal a typewriter

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



kalel posted:

What a climax. Jon Hamm is such an underrated actor. he has an unexpected amount of range in his other roles too!

Either he's an rear end in a top hat to work with or he needs to fire his agent

in a bit of life imitates art or the other way around he has acknowledged serious issues with alcoholism which almost certainly impacted his long-term relationship, but also he only really got one chance to carry a movie and it was a very weak script. since then it's been supporting parts which isn't fair to his talent, but that's how it goes sometimes

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991






surprised this hasn't come up yet

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



it's extremely obvious but still warrants a mention

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



i remember that as well as the manson stuff. did lost poison the brains of an entire generation of tv watchers, or was this kind of thing around even before that?

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



one of my favorite season openers. if you watched this show as it aired there was almost a full year of downtime, so imagine the wait finally ending and the first thing you see is freddy rumsen

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



:siren: serious big-time finale spoilers do not click! :siren:



















R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



for people wondering why joan "turns" on don later....well, here's exhibit z. cutler showed he valued her talent when no one else did, especially not roger. factor in don spoiling the ipo and costing her a million dollars and it's no mystery why she switches teams. i think at the time people couldn't comprehend it because she was a legacy character and her siding with newer ones went against tv logic

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



i remember when this episode leaked early on japanese tv or somesuch and i read a summary. everybody thought drat this poo poo is gonna suck!

turns out it's an all-timer and lists of secondhand bullet points are a bad way to absorb entertainment media

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R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991



the other thing i distinctly remember from watching this episode as it aired was howling with delight seeing how harry hosed himself out of millions of dollars in real time. "none of your beeswax" got me good

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