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Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


I think the pitch in The Carousel stands virtually alone in the history of media, because it effortlessly overcomes a very common hurdle: How do you show someone being creative in a way that works in the scene, but also works on the audience?

Enormous swathes of fiction require the audience to understand either that a protagonist is either good at something, or got good at something. From the top of my head, theres four ways you can go about showing this.

The Agony and the Ecstasy. Charlton Heston IS Michelangelo! Everyone knows what the Sistine Chapel roof looks like, you just show the hero covered in dust and paint standing next to a masterpiece. Your guy is good at something, and its obvious to everyone from the get go. This really only works if the talent isnt the focus of the story.

The Matrix, or any movie with a training montage. People love training montages, and pretty much the main reason is because it compresses years of pain and effort into a nice, easily digested wad of goo. You can see your guy sucks at the beginning, but the power of special effects and six months with a personal trainer transform him into a god. Fine, if your subject is doing something physical.

The Queens Gambit. Your heroine is the worlds greatest chess player, but the viewing public dont understand chess. This approach requires a great deal of screen time dedicated to all the other actors being amazed, incredulous, or astounded. The chess is real enough for the purposes of the script, but doesnt actually require any effort from the audience to understand. see also Good Will Hunting.

Mr Hollands Opus. Your protagonist has a talent, and despite the best efforts of everyone involved in the production, the depiction of it is risible. Im sure Im not the only person to watch this movie just to howl with laughter, mainly during the performance of the title characters life work at the end. Titanic has a similar problem: as I said in another thread, the idea that Rose likes Jacks high-school quality work when she owns a Degas is ludicrous.

For me, The Carousel pitch was the shows last opportunity to keep me on-board. Weve had plenty of references to Dons genius, his amazing ad creation skills, his award winning. Everyone in the office fawns over him, including the bosses. He dresses well, looks great, and when really pushed into a corner, he can deliver (Lucky Strike, or versus Pete in Bert Coopers office), but none of what weve previously seen explains why such a fundamentally awful broken person gets given so much leeway. No one person is so great at their job they can get away with almost anything, are they?

Uh, yeah. They are.

I go back and forth on the inclusion of the music, and I now appreciate it on a meta level. The whole scene is so intentionally manipulative they added the (perfect) music so that the audience would realise they were being manipulated as well. I dont think the series reached the heights I expected after this scene. Its basically too good.

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Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Jerusalem posted:

For some reason this one took me a hell of a long time to write. Episode was drat good, but I kind of hit a wall in what I was writing, and I perhaps overwrote to compensate. The episode is incredibly dense, there is SO much going on and I kept second-guessing how I was tying it all together, or hitting what I thought was a clear thematic beat only for a follow-up scene to throw it into a fresh new context. Next one will be quicker I hope.

Oh no, the best and most prolific writer on the forums providing pages and pages of content that will give me hours of joy and insight, how will I cope.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Excellent as always!

I did find the dumping of the picnic trash one of the (very) few totally unbelievable things in the show. I cant conceive of anyone in the UK from a similar social strata behaving in that way at that time, and I find it exceptionally hard to believe someone as well-brought up as Betty would do it either. Even if I could be convinced that it was the norm, its far too on the nose for me to be happy with its inclusion.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


I pretty much only know Robert Morse from How To Succeed In Business Without Really Trying (1967) which is the tale of a window cleaner becoming a CEO without doing basically any work. I choose to believe this is some meta thing on Weiners part.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Hell never play golf again.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Breaking Bad is to Mad Men as The Shield is to The Wire.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Shageletic posted:

Yeah? I agree with this?

I sure as hell am more likely to watch Mad Men/The Wire anyway

Thats why theres no commentary, its just a statement.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Its satisfying like nothing else because it builds and builds to an ending that any other show would have flunked, but its flawless and you just sit there going gently caress when its all over. No other show mastered the concept of rising action like it, maintaining it for seven series was nothing short of genius. On the other side of the coin, its not a character piece, so often the emotions and motivations are somewhat cursory.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


To me The Wire is a show that ran until the main character Stringer Bell got killed. They then rebooted the show for a stellar season about being young black and poor in America, with special focus on the education system. They wrapped up some excellent loose ends in the fifth season (Omar, Bodie, Bubbles) but didnt stick the landing due to a couple of main plots that wouldnt look out of place in a CSI-level show.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


imdb posted:

This film was banned in France for its negative portrayal of the French army. Switzerland also banned the film (until 1978), accusing it of being "subversive propaganda directed at France." Belgium required that a foreword be added stating that the story represented an isolated case that did not reflect upon the "gallantry of the French soldiers."

imdb posted:

French authorities considered the film an offense to the honor of their army and prohibited its exhibition in France until 1975. In Germany it wasn't allowed to be shown for a couple of years after its release to avoid any strain in relations with France.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Torquemada posted:

Hell never play golf again.

How did they not laugh.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


I saw Jerusalem in another thread shamefully admitting he was consuming some media unrelated to Mad Men recently, no need for a search party.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Jerusalem posted:

This is great, ahaha.

I wonder how it feels to realize the character you're being asked to play is a loser (that's a harsh way of putting it I know): are you flattered that they respect your ability to play that, or paranoid that they look at you and immediately thing,"This guy's really believable as a loser gently caress-up who is bad at his job!"

Presumably less bad than being hired for being massively fat, or hideously ugly.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


quote:

new wife smell
S-tier forum user name right here.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


insideoutsider posted:

I like how Lane's accent makes it sound like he's saying "Sin Jin" when addressing Saint John Powell. British people sound neat!

Annoyingly, this is how its actually pronounced, one of our little tricks to confuse the colonials. James Bond takes on the identity of Saint John-Smythe in A View to a Kill.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Featherstonehalgh is Fanshawe
Cholmondeley is Chumly
Caius is Keys
Magdalene is Mordlin
We just do this poo poo so we can tell if you belong or not.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Honest, Sinjun.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Additionally smoking and drinking have been cool for a really long time, but this was the first show in a while to really play it up. This show (like advertising) told the people who smoke and drink that theyre ok.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Having finished a BB rewatch last week (directly after finishing BCS) Im leaning toward a friends opinion: that BCS actively loves all its characters, and BB actively hates its characters. I watched BB very carefully paying attention to Skylar in particular: shes written very unsympathetically for most of the series. She fares best in the middle section, where shes aware but not complicit in Walters bullshit.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


BCS is also inconsistent, but at least it likes all its characters. It also has to overcome the hurdle of being a prequel: you know nothing very bad is going to happen to a lot of the characters, so it can seem a little inconsequential.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Id like to see the WSJ interview overdubbed with Charlie Sheen quotes. Cant is the cancer of happen. Im tired of pretending Im not a bitchin rock star from Mars. Im a warlock with tiger blood.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Devorum posted:

It's a level of hatred I simply can't comprehend, despite having served and lost friends myself. I've only really ever seen it from WW2 vets who served in the Pacific.

I think racism is probably the answer. Not specifically your relative obviously, but there was a long history of characterising Orientals as inhuman and inscrutable way before the war started. The rhetoric used to get the Allies in the mood for war in the Pacific theatre was of a particularly vicious and dehumanising nature, and this was exacerbated by a lot of extremely well documented atrocities. If you already thought of the Japanese as the Yellow Peril, then heard about the Rape of Nanking, then watched your buddies get strafed in the water after your boat sank under you in the Gulf of Leyte, having a dim view of the Japanese is somewhat understandable.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


The reaction to the can of Right Guard should tell you everything you need to know.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Jerusalem posted:

Nope, but I also very rarely drink Mountain Dew :shrug:

On a slight tangent, does anybody else get weirded out by the beer cans of that period having a pull tab that just comes right off?

According to Wikipedia, in the UK at least, they stopped using them for soft drinks in 1989 and beer in 1990. As someone born in 1971, youre all making me feel very old that you dont remember these :corsair:

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


.

Torquemada fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Sep 27, 2021

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Yoshi Wins posted:

Those are good burgers, Walter.

Youre out of your element Yoshi!

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Im absolutely here for increasingly ridiculous names for the Francis Residence.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


I havent read this breakdown yet, because Im saving it for my toast and coffee tomorrow morning, but this was one of the episodes I was looking forward to Jerusalem watching most.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


The Klowner posted:

Another Slattery Special. God this episode is so loving good

A nice course correction after the murder bullshit last episode. Theres so few truly weak moments in this show the occasional clunker really stands out.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


:f5:

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Ah. Well, take your time and dont deprive us of any riches.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


I think weve all been waiting for you to get to this one, well the last few in this season anyway. Monumental episodes.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


You can just say Santa isnt real so youre not getting any write ups for a month

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


*sign creaks*
*tumbleweed rolls past*

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Jerusalem posted:

I think he enjoys and wants to share stories with people he loves, which makes sense given his job, but it also means that when he takes those things away or acts thoughtlessly around them like he did with Joy and the "power" move of taking the book from Sylvia it demonstrates how much more he cares about himself than the other person (if he cares about them at all).

I think theres probably a commentary on the nature of art in here somewhere too: that although Don is as adept at using words and images to evoke emotions as any author, his talent is in the service of something he sees as ephemeral, and something that means nothing to him except as a stepping stone to the next client. Books, by comparison, are a tangible product, and good ones last hundreds of years, granting their authors something akin to immortality.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


That was in another country, and besides, the wench is dead.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Benagain posted:

I believe when Peggy's telling the kid that his mom's flushing "things" she's referring to tampons, not drugs. Presumably these are new tenants.

I assumed diapers, either would be terrible.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Actually thinking about it, were disposable diapers even a thing then.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


quote:

He frowns, the distaste clear on his face. This is a man who actively fought to not have a contract, who revels in creative freedom, who speaks out eloquently in the moment and weaves spells in fits of inspiration to charm clients. Now he is being told he must follow a script. He must do as he is told. He will have no authority. He stares at the paper, and then without the slightest hint of hesitation or concern gives a simple, straightforward and seemingly untroubled response.

You might as well stop watching now Jerusalem, because Don slots into his new place seamlessly and everything turns out fine, as you probably figured out.

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Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


I think

quote:

he never came onto her before

while extremely funny, should be

quote:

he never came on to her before

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