Mad Men Blindwatch Thread: Come Watch Again... for the First Time!

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Mad Men Blindwatch Thread: Come Watch Again... for the First Time!

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Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

JethroMcB posted:

he's given the small mercy of one of his character traits being "not racist" (or "the least actively racist person at Sterling-Cooper," at the very least.)

Let's.. be a little careful here. He's a well to do middle class New Yorker from very rich families, he'll always have tons of prejudices. But yes, probably the least actively racist at the firm.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2021 02:17

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 16:36

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

The Klowner posted:

Is there any evidence of Pete being less racist that we've seen up to this point? The major incidents I can recall across the series are his direct marketing of TVs to blacks idea, which is coming in one or two episodes, and his response to MLK's death in a few seasons from where the thread is at now. I'm struggling to recall anything that would specifically indicate a more relaxed attitude towards race relations than his contemporaries that we've seen in seasons 1 and 2. His reaction to Rogers minstrel song appears to be a hint towards much stronger characterization in this direction that occurs later.

His support of JFK over Nixon (rather, his awareness of JFK's appeal over Nixon's) was foreshadowing along these lines, though that's part of the overall "he's actually kind of in touch with his generation" vibe.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2021 03:59

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

JethroMcB posted:

The upcoming Admiral television story reveals who Pete Campbell is: A man who will always put money before prejudice, and who doesn't understand why not everyone shares that worldview. His conversation with Hollis in the elevator is definitely a merciless display of how out of his depth he is in discussing matters of race, though ("It's just the two of us, Hollis and..." "Mister Campbell.")

As always with this show, this is both exactly it and also there's more to it - as I put above, this is the closest I think he can come to being active not racist without some deeper enlightenment, but he is trying? That feels very weird to say about Pete

# ¿ Mar 1, 2021 04:03

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

VinylonUnderground posted:

1) I'm not interested in the inner lives of characters because they are fictional characters.

honestly I don't think mad men is a show for you if this is your mindset, pop culture is hugely important to the show but it is all about the characters and how they navigate 1960s America.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2021 19:47

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

I'm getting pretty exhausted with being excited for a new Jerusalem post, opening the thread, and finding out it was just another 2 pages of Vinylon screaming about how this show isn't about characters, it's about Weiner loving rich people or some poo poo.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2021 20:15

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

The line delivery in the car when Gene yells at Bobby is one of my favorite bits in the entire show. :allears:

"YER SISTER LIKES EM"

# ¿ Mar 7, 2021 20:08

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

Yoshi Wins posted:

The scene with Peggy telling her mother that she's moving to Manhattan is the moment I realized that her mother is written as having Borderline Personality Disorder. It's sort of hinted at in season 2, where she is notably hot and cold with Peggy, but here where she is facing "abandonment", we see so many of the signs and symptoms in one scene. Maybe this helps explain how Peggy is able to maintain a good relationship with Don, who does not match the BPD profile, but is also notably hot and cold.

I don't think I agree with this take, it feels a bit like armchair psychology to me. There are plenty of people in real life who act very similarly to Peggy's mother in these scenes, and it's not due to latent undiagnosed disorders (though everyone should go to therapy).

# ¿ Mar 7, 2021 21:10

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

hell, I�d watch it

# ¿ Mar 8, 2021 00:38

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

Yoshi Wins posted:

Eh. I don't think there's anything wrong with armchair psychologizing fictional characters. There are pitfalls to it when it comes to real people, but it's often rewarding to reach a bit when interpreting fictional characters.

The other thing is, I really don't want to put words in your mouth here, but it sounds like you're implying that Katherine Olson's response falls within a normal or healthy range of reactions. Is that right? I'm not sure if I'm getting your intended meaning from your second sentence.

I think Katherine's reaction is so extreme that it's reasonable to call it pathological. She's not just upset or demanding. She's clearly trying to inflict as much emotional pain as she can on Peggy in a retaliatory attack. And it's also clear that both Peggy and Anita expected that. A pattern of deliberately trying to hurt your children when they displease you is really extreme and unhealthy. To the point that I think it makes sense to wonder, "Is there a personality disorder that fits this kind of behavior?", which in this case there is.

I'd like to reiterate that I'd be a lot more reluctant to make and share this kind of interpretation about a real person. But in carefully constructed works of "literary" fiction, I assume that the authors are leaving us clues to all kinds of things.

I'm not claiming it's normal or healthy the typical senses of those words at all, and if you have anyone in your life like that, Thread, please :sever:

. I'm just not immediately willing to leap to there being a personality disorder that specifically explains this, unfortunately common, emotional manipulation and constant lashing out. I think you can probably make the case she has it, I just don't think the authors were 100% definitely depicting her as having it, vs. being a very hypocritically religious, judgemental, emotionally manipulative matriarch. I'm comfortable with interpreting it that way, just not taking the next step to authorial intent here. Does that make more sense?

# ¿ Mar 8, 2021 23:58

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

This is a great episode even setting aside the lawnmower bits. The scene between Joan and Don is just super tender, you can tell they have a deep personal respect for eachother even beyond their professional respect.

Also probably my favorite line in the entire series, though there's plenty of bangers left: "He'll never... golf again."

# ¿ Mar 20, 2021 21:28

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

Just got to the Suitcase on my rewatch. Still just an absolutely incredible episode, holy moly.

Also, Roger's threat to Peggy when asking if Don was still in the office was hilarious. "I'm going to count to 3 and start saying some things you really won't like, sweetheart."

# ¿ Mar 23, 2021 16:50

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

Gaius Marius posted:

I wonder how hes gonna take it, Some peeps have been taking it really negative towards don which I just don't see, at least not towards their reasoning. Don's got sucha hosed up transactional view of sex, Sal loving Cigarette man seems absolutely natrual to him if it means not losing their golden goose, hell he'd do it himself if he was gay.

I don't think the dude is judging Sal at all for his Homosexuality but rather for his instability to gently caress a client to keep them

It's hosed but it's wrapped up in the same hosed up swamp of sexual feelings he's had since he grew up in the Brothel, I really think analyzing that aspect of his character brings a lot more understanding to don than just saying he's a bad lad.

I think understanding that Don would view it as transactional, vs. view it as gay people constantly coming onto eachother (from Don's hosed up 1960's Prejudice perspective), is tricky though, since we haven't seen that Don himself got raped in the brothel yet. From Jerusalem's perspective, it'll seem like Don's very much just homophobic and angry, vs. homophobic and not understanding sex for the job. (Which, granted, isn't much better, but at least.. creates a modern understanding of him.)

# ¿ Apr 3, 2021 07:39

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

Surprised to see the Henry Francis hate, he always struck me as one of the most fundamentally decent characters. Even dealing with Don he's very even handed and fair.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2021 01:57

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

Gaius Marius posted:

he went to japan and invented anime

An indefensible crime.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2021 00:30

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

I dont remember hearing any music that scene either. It must be very subdued.

# ¿ Apr 23, 2021 00:36

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

I think this episode does a great job at capturing just how surreal the whole experience must have been. It feels like a fever dream as life slowly drifts on from event to event.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2021 17:34

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

Love this episode and write up. It�s so remarkable to see how open and vulnerable Don is willing to make himself to Peggy, versus how low and pathetic he gets with Betty. Highlights a lot some of his self loathing for his affairs, I think, and the differences he puts on respect vs adoration - I hesitate to even use �love� with Betty.

# ¿ May 3, 2021 20:31

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

By the way, early in the write up there�s a bunch of �Roger�s where there should be �Cooper�s

# ¿ May 3, 2021 22:21

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

pentyne posted:

One of the interesting things about Mad Men is there is so often a dichotomy of business vs friendships. How much each of them mean to each other, and to what levels they will let the cost of doing business and making money impact that.

Cooper always seems like the ultimate capitalist, but with a strict set of person rules for how he treats people. Everyone else is kind of in a gray area from their position of privilege/drunkenness/wealth/status etc.

I think on of the most important readings on Roger's character is when he follows Don home to eat with because he's bored. He ends up making a move on Betty, which Don blames her for. Her point "what do you want me to do, he's your boss?" is such a crucial part of any relationship Don and Sterling have at that point, because no matter what Roger does, he's still the one with the real power. Roger never even really apologizes, just gives a long winded metaphor about how his name on the door is his excuse for his bad behavior.

When it comes down to it, all the professed feelings and relationships they've developed personally don't really mean all that much to many of them when it comes to their business. Their highest concern and priority in life is the the further accumulation of their wealth and business status.

I disagree, but it's hard to disagree without talking about things from future seasons we haven't yet touched on.

# ¿ May 8, 2021 23:57

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

Jerusalem posted:

He puts on a smile and greets her, and she informs him that she has put coffee and a roll on his desk and that Mr. Sterling would like to see him, before turning and looking straight at Roger who is literally 10 feet away sitting in a chair and declares,"Roger, he's here!"

Roger, beaming with delight at Don's punishment, asks her to get the others

This shot is loving incredible. The way the camera just silently moves to Roger's face, beaming, and he says "Thank you". I burst out laughing every time.

# ¿ Jun 7, 2021 07:38

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

Blood Nightmaster posted:

lmao at that video. It's incredibly, incredibly minor but should it also be under a spoiler tag?

Yes. It has his new wife lmao

# ¿ Jun 17, 2021 03:15

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

Don grabbing Peggys hand is such a nice, sentimental moment that really underlined this episode. Rather than pretend the previous night didn�t happen, that he didn�t just openly break in front of Peggy, he looks and lets her know.. yeah, I let you in. I won�t pretend this is nothing. It�s deeply affectionate in a platonic way.

# ¿ Jul 6, 2021 17:40

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

Shageletic posted:

Ironic as hell considering who Don's mother was, and Don's chip on his shoulder regarding prostitution. After all he swung on Duck as soon as he mentioned the word.

He also definitely swung in defense of Peggy, in the way someone incredibly drunk but emotional would :allears:

# ¿ Jul 6, 2021 20:53

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 16:36

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

Xealot posted:

The later episode that reminds me of this is when Don drives Sally back to school. It's after she caught him cheating with Sylvia, after she called him disgusting and ducked all his calls, after learning where he grew up. He admits that he lost his job, that he's estranged from Megan, and is generally at a profound low point. But she still says, "I love you." And Don's reaction looks to be surprise: how could she possibly? And yet, somehow, she does.

if this scene doesnt make you cry you're a loving monster

# ¿ Jul 9, 2021 01:14

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Mad Men Blindwatch Thread: Come Watch Again... for the First Time!

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