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Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



The Klowner posted:

Also I'm pretty sure the gum that Bert stepped in came from Sally, we see her chewing gum a few scenes prior. Or am I just parsing that completely incorrectly

No, I'm pretty sure it came from Sally.

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Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Yoshi Wins posted:

I can't find a source that definitively states when "plop plop fizz fizz" debuted, but it seems like it was probably after 1962.

99.99% it was 1976, because it was the joke theme of my mom's 16th birthday party (she had a weird sense of humor) and she said the jingle had just come out.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



pentyne posted:

Kinsey was such a great foil to all the other creatives/execs who are essentially his age/peers. He's pretends he's like a less monied version of Pete but with literally 0 self awareness and rides that dumb pipe and castro beard as literally his only personality trait. He always thinks of himself as this smug intellectual but every attempt he makes to act like it fall pretty flat. The black girlfriend thing was pretty eye opening too, aside from the weird racism it really did give the vibe that he felt like he was 'woke' for deigning to be with her.

also love when his old roommate shows up and brings up his old Jersey accent

He's the 1960's male version of Britta from Community.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Decided to take the plunge and find the time to rewatch along.

Jumped in with Meditations and Out of Town. I love this show so much. The conversation between Ken and Pete in the elevator was hilarious.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Xealot posted:


That said, I don't actually think "The Negron Complex" sounds much worse than many actual Star Trek TOS episodes. Like, they probably wouldn't make an episode that transparently about antebellum slavery, but ham-fisted social metaphors presented really artlessly are a hallmark of that series. Paul is no Ben Hargrove, but original Star Trek was some real pulpy poo poo despite its very kind reputation.

In an interview DeForest Kelley mentioned a very similar episode having been planned, but it was never filmed. Perhaps where Mad Men got the idea to begin with. It seems like a very Kinsey script.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Jerusalem posted:

Season 3, Episode 1 - Out of Town
Written by Matthew Weiner, Directed by Phil Abraham
He compliments Betty on how she looks today and she thanks him sweetly... and then gets straight to business, if he hanging around outside her office because he's here to see her? No, he explains hurriedly, he was just "verifying some information" and thanks Lola and makes a quick exit... though not before grabbing some candy from the container on Lola's desk.

Betty cocks her head and gives Lola a pointed look, the secretary unable to hold up under the gaze for long and trying to make a joke of it all, saying how curious it is that he spends so much time around her to talk about the strangest things... like her engagement ring! Betty isn't having it though, telling Lola to cut it out, and the secretary admits that there's something about the gormless young man's voice that drives her wild... she could listen to him read from the phonebook! Betty wryly observes that once he gets to S, she can use it to get Howard Sullivan from Lever Brothers on the line, as that is the purpose she was trying to contact Lola in the first place. Betty isn't interested in office flirting or engagement rings or exotic accents... this is a workplace and she's here to work, this is a place of professionalism!

Excellent post, as always. You've got a string of Peggy-Bettys early on.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



JethroMcB posted:

Subber's Note: Don mastered the Five Magicks before his showdown with David Ogilvy in the Lucky STIRKE 19:63 Love One An/OTHER OVA, which takes place between Seasons 2 and 3. It has yet to be released/translated stateside.

This is art. And I want to watch it.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Escobarbarian posted:

poo poo yeah I can post this now:

https://youtu.be/Pvo-4kCLAjM

and the full Jon and January version:

https://youtu.be/FV-IbKB5dlo

I love this. It's easy to forget how goofy and comedic Jon Hamm can be, though he has excellent timing with his funny bits on Mad Men.

The first time I saw him was a sort of wooden appearance on Gilmore Girls, and I never would have thought he could make me laugh.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



pokeyman posted:

He's been on Comedy Bang Bang many times too, and held his own I think. (Again, possible spoilers.)

I agree he's been solid on CBB.

That Sergio video is great. Though I'm torn on whether it's a curse or not.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



If we're still doing Mad Men adjacent bits, I love this one from Community. It's made even better by Allison Brie being in it.

https://youtu.be/VHwez1L1AHk

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



I thought Don was a sad, pathetic shell of a person desperately crouching beneath a facade of awesome for most of the show's run...so I'm not sure what you're talking about with "sad trombone" moments and "walking everything back".

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Sash! posted:

That episode where the prostitute rapes him is the point where Don moved from "total piece of poo poo" to "deserving of pity" for me. The guy is just so fundamentally broken from his junk upbringing that I'm not sure he could fix himself, even if the wanted to. Although he doesn't, because of how messed up he is.

Don's entire character could be used to teach the concept of Moral Luck, how it shapes our available choices, and how we choose in the end.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



16 years on this forum, and I've never ignored a poster until this very moment.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Surely the best dance is Peggy and Abe at Don's birthday?

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Gaius Marius posted:

I wonder if it's better or worse than murdering the show because you didn't understand the legs it had. RIP Carnival and Rome

I'm still salty about Carnivale. Everything was just coming together and it had so much drat potential.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



von Metternich posted:

Cut two cast members EVERY season? Like, they axe Pete and Harry, then Roger and Joan, and so on until the last season is just Don in a room by himself? That’s a ridiculous way to make a show!

The final episode is Don huddled in an abandoned house, a blanket wrapped tight around him. Through a massive hole in the wall, we see snow falling on a blasted wasteland littered with the detritus of a fallen civilization.

Don has something clutched in his hands, and he stares at it intently as the light fades from his eyes. It's a snowglobe, miraculously intact, with a scene from a 1960's office inside. We hear the whispered lyrics of Bye Bye Birdie as the scene goes to credits.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Shageletic posted:

Yeah im voting for Vinylon to be banned from here or at least everyone ignore him. He just posts about other posters and throws in inexplicable Bush references.

Tho the real tell is not being "interested in the interior lives of fictional people"? Lol, what are you even doing here.

Seconding.

I saw a bunch of new comments, thought we had a new episode early.

Nope, still just Vinny being utterly incapable of reading the room, or the characters in the show this thread is about.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



GoutPatrol posted:

I know salted ice cream is "a thing" now, but watching an old man with a table salt shaker throwing it on was very gross to me.

My favorite vanilla ice cream topping has been sea salt and olive oil for over 20 years now. The salt is wonderful.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Yoshi Wins posted:

I have to admit, I have never understood Dennis's reaction to seeing Don again. At first I thought maybe the baby died, as we don't see the baby, but he's smiling before he sees Don, so that's unlikely. I don't get it.


There's a certain type of dude that, once they've they've shown vulnerability or sensitivity to another man, treats them with scorn afterward. As if they're a reminder of the vulnerability and are a possible threat because they can reveal that vulnerability.

I encountered them pretty often growing up in the deep south.

Not saying that's definitely the case, but it was my reading.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005




I think we've all been eagerly waiting for you to get to this scene.

I just rewatched it today in anticipation.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



JethroMcB posted:


Nice bit of juxtaposition with Greg, the trained doctor, failing to land the position he's been working towards his whole life, while a day later Joan demonstrates that she can turn into a field medic at the drop of a hat.

I mean, she didn't attempt direct pressure before applying the tourniquet, or put the tourniquet in the correct spot (double-bone sections of limbs are typically avoided, as the bones can prevent the tourniquet from working and cause unnecessary pain. It's also too close to the ankle...nearly on top of it. Best placement would have been just above the knee)...but it's the thought that counts.

I always love watching people apply tourniquets on TV and in films.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005




Connie, I'm assuming.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Watching a bit ahead of the thread (S3E11), and I just got to Gypsy and The Hobo. Fantastic episode. I'd forgotten just how wonderful the scene where Betty confronts Don is, all with the added tension of his mistress stuck out in the car not knowing what's happening.

I'm honestly shocked Don told her the whole truth.


Oh, and Don's quiet "I was very poor" when Betty says he doesn't understand money hits hard.

Devorum fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Mar 24, 2021

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



The Klowner posted:

I get goosebumps every time. Robert Morse kills it in this one.

It's so good. You can tell he's been holding that info in his back pocket, knowing it would be useful.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Jerusalem posted:

We'll see if the quality keeps up but so far it's just a magnificent series. The production values are great, which is a help, and the actors of course are excellent and seem to understand they're part of something special and work hard to live up to that... but the writing is also just great, it nails such distinct characters and doesn't shy away from exposing how deeply flawed they are without getting (so far) cartoonish, even for characters like Paul, and also providing plenty of reminders that they're still human beings who by nature are complex and often contradictory and can't be reduced to simply good or bad.

I'm sure part of that is the pedigree of the crew coming from Sopranos and already having good working relationships, but Weiner (or his producers) also had a remarkable eye for directors: I notice a lot more women writers and directors than I ever saw on Sopranos, and I wonder how much that helped in creating some well-rounded (and similarly complex) female characters. Before I saw the show I used to hear a lot about how female characters were just there for eye-candy while the show reveled too much in the early 60s mentality of "women are just there for our enjoyment), and now watching the show I can't believe how anybody could really take such a surface level reading from it. Then again I also heard a lot about how Don was an "alpha male" to be emulated and respected and... well I mean.... what?

I started watching it when it was partway through the third season. Like 3/4 of the guys I knew were buying suits and drinking rye because of this Alpha Male Don Draper. I started watching the series to see what all the fuss was about and after the first episode I was really wondering why they were idolizing him. By the end of the first season it was pretty clear that he was badly damaged and pretty pathetic in a lot of ways.

But people also idolized Walter White, so who knows?

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



The Klowner posted:

God forbid the Google/Facebook/Amazon/Twitter ad-mind figures out mad men is one of your Interests and tries to recommend or advertise a bunch of spoilery poo poo

I can only imagine the t-shirts marketed to extremely specific demographics for this.

"Yes, I'm a MAD MEN fan with ANGER ISSUES and a wife who IDOLIZES DON DRAPER..."

Devorum fucked around with this message at 07:34 on May 6, 2021

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



pentyne posted:

Depends, the quality control and regulations for vape juice are so low you get stuff put to market that basically wrecks people's lungs. It's called popcorn lung, not sure why.

In general it's going to be real interesting when studying the effects of long term, extremely extreme nicotine use, as one of the habits from the heavy users is to buy the highest nicotine content juice, then buy concentrated nicotine "juice" and mix it to boost the nicotine content of their vape fluids.

It took nearly 50, 60 years of the entire world habitually smoking packs a day before there was enough evidence to link smoking to lung cancer. Vaping is going to take a while for any statistically significant evidence to emerge.

It was first discovered in the lungs of people working in microwave popcorn factories, and was the result of inhaling various vaporized flavoring chemicals... usually diacetyl, I believe.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



OctaviusBeaver posted:

Does anybody remember that animated fan fiction from back when the show originally aired where Paul Kinsey is a Soviet spy who holds Don at gunpoint and the self-insert protagonist saves him?

:catstare:

What?

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005




loving what?

There's a lot to unpack here.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Jerusalem posted:

Something that stands out is when Stephanie asks Don where he went to school, and he seems almost ashamed as he admits he cobbled together non-consecutive years at Night School. Stephanie is legitimately impressed by that, just like most people are legitimately impressed by Don when they meet him, but the man himself is absolutely humiliated by his lack of "class" and upbringing despite referring to himself proudly in the past as a self-made man. His origins in poverty make him embarrassed, he's convinced he's "lesser than" and wants to hide his history not just because of his stolen identity but because he thinks people will look down on him or cast him out for not belonging (and he always thinks he doesn't belong). He probably only really admits he went to Night School to Stephanie because he's there with Anna which is a safer space.

I grew up in rural poverty nearly on the level of Don, and it's only in the last few years that I've felt comfortable being open about it. As a child, I learned very quickly that it was shameful that we were poor. That my mom got welfare and food stamps. That we moved every 6 months, one step ahead of eviction notices. There was a middle class side of town where I grew up, and a poor side. And if you were on the poor side, the other side never let you forget it. We were, quite literally, told we were "lesser than".

And the three "rich" families were even worse.

Basically what I'm getting at is when that mindset gets hammered into you when you're young, it's real hard to lose no matter how successful you become. Don's personality in this regard is extremely accurate, and it's one of the things I love about the show. Seeing it played out on Mad Men helped me confrontat my own issues with it.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



I love Miss Blankenship. It took me an episode or two to recognize her as Randee Heller, Lucille LaRusso in The Karate Kid. She absolutely nails this role.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Gaius Marius posted:

Motherfuck I didn't recognize her from the movies or when she came back on kobra kai

I only recognized her because I decided to watch the three original movies in the middle of this season's run.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Mild season 5 Spoiler?

I just started watching Wandavision and was delighted to see Teyona Parrish (Dawn) playing a character that, at least for a while in the late 60s or early 70s, works at an ad agency.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Jerusalem posted:

He says it with his usual calm, detached manner, but watch how John Slattery allows just a moment of the sheer pain and horror of what he witnessed shine through for just a moment before his normal poker face comes back on: it's subtle, but that makes it hit all the harder. This is something he REALLY feels, even to this day.



This episode, particularly the scenes with Roger and Honda, always reminds me of my grandfather. He served in WW2, lost two cousins in the Pacific, and had his own ship, the USS Vincennes, sank at the Battle of Savo Island. He spent hours in the water waiting for rescue while his friends drowned around him, or were eaten by sharks. The Japanese continued to fire on their position, as well...a pretty serious breach of the expected rules of naval combat.

He didn't talk about it often, but when he did he got that same look Roger showed for a moment. He definitely had PTSD from the experience, and he hated the Japanese until the day he died. He'd never buy anything made or designed in Japan, and we had to hide and Japanese brands when he visited or he would just leave when he saw them. He died when I was 8 or so, but I can still remember how he felt about our peace with Japan.

It's a level of hatred I simply can't comprehend, despite having served and lost friends myself. I've only really ever seen it from WW2 vets who served in the Pacific.

All that is to say that Roger's reaction was spot on accurate and Slattery sold the hell out of it.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Torquemada posted:

I think racism is probably the answer. Not specifically your relative obviously, but there was a long history of characterising ‘Orientals’ as inhuman and inscrutable way before the war started. The rhetoric used to get the Allies in the mood for war in the Pacific theatre was of a particularly vicious and dehumanising nature, and this was exacerbated by a lot of extremely well documented atrocities. If you already thought of the Japanese as the Yellow Peril, then heard about the Rape of Nanking, then watched your buddies get strafed in the water after your boat sank under you in the Gulf of Leyte, having a dim view of the Japanese is somewhat understandable.

Oh, it's definitely racism. But it's different than, say, my uncle who did multiple tours in Vietnam and was racist as hell, but didn't have any issues with Vietnamese people beyond his normal racism.

You're probably right about how the Orientalist Yellow Peril BS was pushed so hard in WW2.

Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:

Devorum upthread mentioning savo island and the vincennes - this was an example of american complacency leading to the japanese navy utterly pantsing the american navy, and multiple ships like the vincennes got beaten to pieces for it with extreme loss of life

Absolutely. As much as my grandfather hated the Japanese, he blamed complacent officers for allowing what happened to happen. There was nearly the same amount of ire when he talked about scout aircraft not being sent up because the OIC of their group decided it was impossible for the Japanese navy to be anywhere nearby.

Devorum fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Jun 17, 2021

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



GoutPatrol posted:

3. Danny being played by Danny Strong, known mostly for being Jonathan on Buffy. In a couple yeara he would be a multi-Emmy winner, and now he's one of the more powerful people in Hollywood.

This is Doyle McMaster erasure and I won't stand for it.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



I read it as Don just outright lying. He has experience with blackout drunks from his father, so he could recognize how far gone Roger was. It was still a gamble, but one he probably felt confident he could win.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Jerusalem posted:

why the hell do they want to associate Mountain Dew with hillbillies?

Assuming this wasn't a joke question, "mountain dew" was slang for moonshine and/or scotch whiskey (originally Scotch, but the Scots brought the term to Appalachia where it was applied to moonshine) and the soda was invented as a mixer for whiskey.

The original mascot was "Willy the Hillbilly".

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Jerusalem posted:

Nope, but I also very rarely drink Mountain Dew :shrug:

On a slight tangent, does anybody else get weirded out by the beer cans of that period having a pull tab that just comes right off?

I'm from relatively near where it was invented. Like, my grandpa's cousin knew the brothers or something like that.

As for the tabs...I prefer them. A lot of the rest of the world still uses them.


GoutPatrol posted:

Cheers to the art department for figuring out how to make old cans.

They may have just ordered them from overseas plants and painted them.

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Devorum
Jul 30, 2005



Xealot posted:


A weird aside: I’ve been watching a lot of old Twilight Zone episodes recently, and the ages of characters are constantly throwing me. “Meet [such-and-such], age 36,” and they look like they’re pushing 50. I’m in my 30’s, and the characters who look close to my age are supposed to be 25. Part of that’s casting, but a lot of it has to be people in 1960 aging like complete poo poo.

I had this experience recently with Andrew Giuliani. He said he was 35 in an interview and I nearly did a spit-take because he looks like a 50 year old Will Ferrell impersonator.

I had to look it up...and damned if he isn't 35.

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