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technotronic
Sep 7, 2014


For years I was blessed with being able to sleep anytime, anywhere, as long as you leave me in peace and quiet for a while. Sometimes that included public transport or dentist's chair. I'd sleep 8 hours a night, and if I had to wake up early, I'd have a 30 minute nap in the afternoon.

Then I got a kid and I he started calling the shots. Still, I would sleep 8 hours in the off chance if I was given the opportunity.

Then, a few months ago, I started getting insomnia. I'd go to bed at midnight and wake up at 5 or 6 and couldn't sleep, even if the kid was still sleeping peacefully. It progressed, I'd wake up at 3 or 4. Sometimes I'd manage to fall asleep again, more often not. I was stressing out about it, which made it even worse. I'd go to bed worried that I won't sleep. I kept waking up earlier and earlier, to the low point when one night I couldn't fall asleep at all. We happened to have xanax at home (for the dog) so I took it that one time but normally I stick to bromazepam, which I take occasionally and in low doses. There are a lot of addicts in my family so I'm extra careful with medicine that can cause it. I find that if I wake up at night, bromazepam won't put me back to sleep, but if I take it before going to bed, my sleep will be sounder.

The worst period is thankfully over and these days I sleep 5-6 hours at night and 15-20 minutes during the day. It looks like it's my new normal. Some issues persist. My sleep is disconnected from my need to sleep -- I don't sleep any better after a hard day's work than after an easy day. Also I often can't tell if I slept at all. I'll look at the time and see only 5 minutes passed, or maybe 90 minutes -- I can't feel the difference.

I spoke with some friends and turns out most of them have sleep problems. Goons, how much do you sleep, and do you think you need more?

tl;dr
Man rambles about his sleep patterns and wants to poll other users.

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bromplicated
Mar 28, 2003

Mur-ur-ur-ur

I feel like as you get older you just sleep shittier. Maybe it's because your brain is filled with toxins from just being alive for so long.

I used to sleep fine up through my 20s, but I slowly started sleeping less. Started waking up at night too like from what you're describing. I tried exercising, not using screens late, meditating, none of it seems to really matter.

I find sticking to a routine is important. If I change up what I'm doing before bed I always sleep worse.

Drugs are an ok band aid if you'd had a rough couple nights and really need some sleep, but they are a trap for sure to fall into in regards to needing them.

yaffle
Sep 15, 2002

Flapdoodle

bromplicated posted:

I feel like as you get older you just sleep shittier. Maybe it's because your brain is filled with toxins from just being alive for so long.


Truth, I slept like a dog until my late thirties, now I fall unconscious at nine and wake up at three, very annoying, especially on days when I have work early and can't go back to sleep at six like my stupid brain wants me to.

Schweinhund
Oct 23, 2004

                                       


A big cause of sleep problems is lighting. Not enough exposure to sunlight means less melatonin is produced. And too much electric light at night like from staring at a phone or monitor makes your brain think it's still day time.

shirunei
Sep 7, 2018


f.lux or some other blue light filter helped out with stuff like this, it can be a godsend.

bromplicated
Mar 28, 2003

Mur-ur-ur-ur

yaffle posted:

especially on days when I have work early and can't go back to sleep at six like my stupid brain wants me to.

Yea, this for sure. I start to feel sleepy when it is time to get up. I tell my brain it's his fault for doing this to us. He doesn't seem to give a gently caress though.

Gophermaster
Mar 5, 2005

Bring the Ruckas


Besides the usual advice of make sure you diet and exercise are in check, you can also look into cognitive behavioral therapy, it's what I used to fix my insomnia. You should speak with a therapist, but the gist is that you deal with the anxiety first by stopping the negative thought loops and re-learn how to relax.

Moo the cow
Apr 30, 2020



I've found that the things you do before you go to bed can affect your sleep significantly.

Which sounds obvious, but it's not just immediately before bedtime, but a couple of hours before that affects it.

I noticed it when i was playing video games in that time period. I gave myself a cut-off time and it did help.

bromplicated
Mar 28, 2003

Mur-ur-ur-ur

Gophermaster posted:

You should speak with a therapist, but the gist is that you deal with the anxiety first by stopping the negative thought loops and re-learn how to relax.

I don't really have negative thought loops, but more like there will be a song I heard earlier in the day playing in my head on loop while I'm trying to sleep.

NarwhalParty
Jul 23, 2010


I used to have awful insomnia as a teen. Then in my early twenties, I got a job in assisted living. You could technically sleep at night once everything was done but I could never sleep away from home so sometimes i would be awake several days straight and then crash for the rest of the week. I can now sleep pretty reasonably but I am still a light sleeper. My husband snores, but not loudly. If I don't fall asleep before him or if I wake up , I'll usually end up sleeping on the couch.

Amazon Alexas ambient sounds app has been a huge life saver. I'll put it on rain or forest noises.

sephiRoth IRA
Jun 13, 2007

"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality."

-Carl Sagan


I was getting terrible sleep for about eight months, waking up exhausted, having trouble avoiding yawning in meetings etc. I was at the dentist and they said I should get checked for sleep apnea- while I'm overweight, I'm not a giant 300 pound person, and after talking to the sleep doc I realized that eight of my family members have apnea too.

I have a CPAP now and my sleep is so much better than it used to be. Apparently apnea is chronically under-diagnosed and it's not just a fat person problem.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006
THE VOLKSWAGEN DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON

I sleep like a baby, OP. I poo poo myself and wake up screaming.

But, seriously, the few times I've experienced bad insomnia, the solution is this: bust a nut. Yeah, it's inconvenient, but after you've been tossing and turning for four hours, just accept there's something in there that wants out and take care of it.

legsarerequired
Dec 31, 2007


College Slice

I have two diagnosed sleep disorders: narcolepsy without cataplexy and obstructive sleep apnea.

Prior to treatment, I was constantly tired and headachey. Sometimes I would go through phases where I would fall asleep for 1-6 hours and wake up alert (at least for me--I was ALWAYS tired). Sometimes I could fall back asleep to get 6-8 hours of sleep before my office job, other times (usually the times when I woke up after one hour) I would feel too alert to fall back asleep. Invariably, I always felt exhausted the following day. I never fell asleep without control, but I often napped in my car over my lunch break. I would feel a little alert for about half an hour after these naps and then I would go back to feeling exhausted. I tried melatonin, restricting screen time, different sleep aids, working out, adjusting my diet, restricting caffeine, getting bloodwork to see if I had some kind of physical medical issue, but nothing seemed to work until I got properly diagnosed and treated.

After treatment, I sleep much better and feel much better. I sleep with a CPAP to address the obstructive sleep apnea--I still have mild OSA even after a 100 pound weight loss and two surgeries to remove obstructions from my airway (septoplasty with turbinate reduction and a tonsillectomy with adenoidectomy). For the narcolepsy, I take a nighttime medicine called Xyrem that is taken twice a night--for me, that's usually 9pm (my bedtime) and then again at 12:30 am. I usually wake up feeling rested and I haven't had the awful headaches I used to experience 24/7. I didn't expect to have any kind of sleep disorder but now that I'm on the right treatment I'm really shocked by how miserable I felt for so long.

If anyone reading this thread feels constantly tired and exhausted and miserable no matter what they do, I recommend seeing a doctor specializing in sleep medicine (usually a neurologist but can also be a pulmonologist). Usually doctors will request an in-lab overnight sleep study so they can see how your brain, cardio-respiratory system and muscles are performing during sleep in case one or more of these systems is causing a problem. One of my friends had a stroke in his sleep in his early 40s due to untreated sleep apnea so it can become pretty serious if you wait on it.

EDIT: If this would be of interest to anyone, the obstructive sleep apnea thread is over here! A while back I started a narcolepsy thread in A/T that a few other goons with narcolepsy joined, but it became inactive after a few weeks and is now locked.

legsarerequired fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Sep 30, 2020

Thanatosian
Apr 16, 2013

Angrier, Bitterer Man


Grimey Drawer

I also have apnea, and in addition to what the other people in here are saying (CPAP greatly helps quality of sleep, etc.), if you are in America, I just want to warn you that even with insurance, sleep labs and CPAPs are not loving cheap. They're likely to make you first do a take-hope sleep evaluation that involves hooking yourself up to this crazy-rear end machine (if you have any, shave your body hair in the areas you attach the things to; the welts left by the tape lasted for loving days) that really just made me sleep much more poorly than I was used to, then had me do an in-lab sleep study (see above regarding shaving your body hair in the areas they attach to). I think all told it cost me in the realm of $1000-$1500 for the sleep studies, and another $120/month for the CPAP rental on top of that, plus supplies (my insurance is supposed to cover this, so I'm having to fight over it). Also, the company that supplies your CPAP will seem shady as gently caress; this is apparently perfectly normal.

Chopstix
Nov 20, 2002

That's a rib gone. Not broken. Gone.

The book “Why we sleep” and the Joe Rogan podcast with it’s author helped me out a lot.

https://youtu.be/pwaWilO_Pig

The cpap didnt work too well on me, so now I sleep with a mouth piece and tape my mouth shut to breath through my deviated septum nose while I sleep

https://youtu.be/zWQxNoqKE6E

PhysicsFrenzy
May 30, 2011

cats can have little a sunglasses, as a treat

Hi OP, I've struggled with insomnia for years. I'm not sure if you're looking for advice, but these are great suggestions:

shirunei posted:

f.lux or some other blue light filter helped out with stuff like this, it can be a godsend.

PT6A posted:

I sleep like a baby, OP. I poo poo myself and wake up screaming.

But, seriously, the few times I've experienced bad insomnia, the solution is this: bust a nut. Yeah, it's inconvenient, but after you've been tossing and turning for four hours, just accept there's something in there that wants out and take care of it.

Maybe not necessarily jerking it, but if you can't sleep then the best thing you can do is stop trying and stop stressing it. Get up and do something else for a while, then try again later.

I also saw a major improvement in my ability to sleep when I disassociated my bed from anything besides sleep (though I've fallen out of the habit recently). If I wanted to lay down and play on my phone I'd go to the couch, and only physically lay in bed when I was ready to actually sleep.

legsarerequired
Dec 31, 2007


College Slice

PhysicsFrenzy posted:

I also saw a major improvement in my ability to sleep when I disassociated my bed from anything besides sleep (though I've fallen out of the habit recently). If I wanted to lay down and play on my phone I'd go to the couch, and only physically lay in bed when I was ready to actually sleep.

Yes! Sleep hygiene is so helpful for getting good quality sleep. Medical professionals who are familiar with sleep medicine wil frequently advocate and ask about sleep hygiene habits. Anyone interested in accessing consistent sleep can learn more about sleep hygiene here.

People living in regions that practice daylight savings time should pay attention to the bullet point about gradual, incremental adjustments to sleep scheduling/bedtimes. The upcoming "fall back"/"gaining an hour" tends to be easier on people than "spring forward"/"losing an hour" but if you want to adjust your sleep schedule to avoid getting tired "early" in the evening after the time change it might be a good idea to start adjusting your bedtime soon.

legsarerequired fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Oct 3, 2020

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

"You are the best poster... do not let anyone say otherwise."


I was never able to sleep in any kind of transport and even unfamiliar places were sometimes a problem the first night, but my own bed was never an issue. I'd just lay down and 15-20 minutes I'm out until the alarm wakes me up. But I slowly drifted to going to bed way too late (like 1am) and getting to work on time started to become a challenge. I slowly started adjusting back by going to bed earlier but now with this covid and general poo poo I've been having some anxiety and really lovely sleeping. I probably only got a few hours of proper sleep the last two nights.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



i am able to fall asleep pretty easily in a lot of situations but i also wake up often and rarely sleep more than 2-3 hours without waking up needing to drink water or pee or both

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


I usually have no problems falling asleep. I tend to wake up a few times to toss around though, and with age my lower back gives me issues when I lie in bed too long.

I have heard that stuff like smartphones, computers and media make insomnia worse, but the easiest, sure fire way to get me to sleep is to lie in bed and watch something on youtube on my phone, just prop the phone on a pillow and watch. I'll be fighting to stay awake inside 10 minutes. And yes it can be something I find interesting and want to watch. The opposite of sleep hygiene basically.

Geisladisk
Sep 14, 2007



yaffle posted:

Truth, I slept like a dog until my late thirties, now I fall unconscious at nine and wake up at three, very annoying, especially on days when I have work early and can't go back to sleep at six like my stupid brain wants me to.

9-3 is six hours though which is actually not a terrible amount of sleep for someone in their forties.

Maybe you just need to go to bed later.

Geisladisk fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Oct 5, 2020

IronClaymore
Jun 30, 2010


I haven't been sleeping so good recently. Probably because I got promoted to a full-time position. It's a great position in a great job, but it has its stress. Also, I've finally started getting work dreams. And they've been so weird I can't even remember most of them.

Maybe I need a bit better sleep hygiene (doing sleepy things like ASMR an hour before sleep), but mostly I think I'm a bit too lazy with weights and working out. I should be doing more weights more times a week. But I convince myself that I'm too tired to exercise, even though I'm not.

notthegoatseguy
Sep 6, 2005
I'm a petty asshole



I have central congenital hyopventilation syndrome, a severe and rare form of sleep apnea. In layman's terms, the part of the brain that basically makes breathing automatic for most people is a manual process for me. So I chronically underbeath. If I go to sleep without my Bipap, or am knocked unconscious or pass out, that could be a deadly situation for me.

While there are many forms of sleep apnea and some people with it can sleep some nights without their vent, or that it only assists them in breathing, for me, the machine breathes for me at night.

That said, I am relatively healthy otherwise and I've always slept really well except for the past year or so.

About a year and a half ago, my vent settings (unbeknownst to me, at least I don't believe this was clearly communicated to me by my doctor) were adjusted below what they historically had been around the time I got a new Bipap. And I started to sleep in. At one point I bought it up to my doctor and he said sometimes people adjust sleep patterns as they age but to let him know if anything further develops. A few months later I start feeling fatigued during the day and am even dosing off at my desk, something I never used to do. I kind of write it off as just not getting enough sleep...at some point, I start bloating up from water weight and my wife purchased an oximeter, and my oxygen levels were in the loving 60s.

Trip to the ER, they give me diuretics for water weight and oxygen. Bipap settings adjusted back to historic rates, and I'm still on night time oxygen but hope to be back off that soon enough, and I'm back to waking up early much to my wife's disappointment.

Sex Robot
Jan 11, 2011

Nothing amazing happens here.
Everything is ordinary.


I posted this in goon doctor so I thought I'd just link it instead of pasting or rewriting it.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...3#post508895016

Inceltown
Aug 6, 2019







With one eye open
Gripping my pillow tight

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!


I've been living with chronic pain for the last 3 years. I get very little sleep

Hotel Kpro
Feb 23, 2011

owls don't go to school

Dinosaur Gum

I sleep pretty great, in bed by 10 or 11 and up around 5 for work. But then there's my hiking days. I'll be up around 3am, drive 3 hours, hike anywhere between 15--32 miles with thousands of feet of climbing, go home, and get absolutely lovely sleep. Last week I got one hour on Sunday night. And then maybe once every two months I just won't be able to sleep on a work night.

I sleep pretty well but I often find myself falling asleep at work around 1pm. Maybe I need more regular exercise or something

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010


I'm super jealous of people who can just fall asleep. I've gradually figured out that I'm just not very good at recognizing when I need to sleep - I can spend half a night tossing and turning, while other times I'll lie down for a rest after dinner thinking I'm totally awake and suddenly wake up 8 hours later, fully clothed.

Things that have helped me:
-Getting everything ready for bed ahead of time. If the urge to sleep comes, I'll drop everything and do it. If I have to get up to brush my teeth, I'll start doing something and stay awake for another couple hours.
-Cutting down on alchohol increased the quality of my sleep a hundredfold.
-Not working nights
-Reading books and articles that are only a little interesting. If it's a proper page turner, it'll keep me up.

Every couple weeks there's a night where or two where I just can't sleep. Anxiety probably, but there's only so much that can be done - life is never stress free.

Good luck OP!

E: Melatonin helps reset my sleep schedule, but it's very dose dependent. Usually half a pill is right, too much and my sleep cycle gets all screwy and I wake up/pass out like 10 times in a night. Seen the same result in friends, the dosage depends on body weight, I think.

Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Oct 18, 2020

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Danger - Octopus!
Apr 20, 2008




Nap Ghost

Fruits of the sea posted:

I'm super jealous of people who can just fall asleep.

Growing up, when I saw people do that on tv and in films - for years I genuinely thought this was just an on-screen convention (like people not locking cars) that didn't reflect the reality because I'd always take at least an hour or two, often more, to fall asleep.

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