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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Getting the DLC without the game makes total sense from the Game pass policy point of view. They warn you as much but maybe not as prominently as they could. It's just MSFS deluxe add-ons are an insane gotcha where the add on costs as much as a new license so it sure feels like fraud when your game pass flight sim links you to the DLC for $90 instead of the full license for $90.

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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Sagebrush posted:

That's not very typical, I'd like to make that point.
Well how is it untypical?

SuperTeeJay posted:

I made the mistake of turning on AP with a selected altitude of 2,000ft while half-way through the East Coast discovery tour and at 3,500ft - the plane immediately nosedived and came apart. I'm hoping that type of poo poo can't happen in real life.

Alpenglow posted:

For anyone on the fence about FS 2020 due to lower end hardware, I'm enjoying autopilot hurling my plane groundward at a much higher subjective performance than expected with a 2 gig gtx960 and 46xx i5. It feels smoother than full detail FSX most of the time. Using 70% render scaling with TAA wizardry looks great at 2560x1080 with low/medium settings at 40fps.

The autopilot randomly deciding that FL100 means FL0 on activation is a little offputting though.
Uhh guys I'm starting to think they might not have any digital controls people on the team.

Altitude change is the textbook example of a feed forward control (Garmin) or cascade control (jet liner flight rules that manage IAS and junk for you). A regular control loop looks at the process variable and directly sets a control variable to try and reach the process variable. This is like altitude hold: you'd plug in a altitude and it would directly control your elevator until you reach that altitude. This is dangerous when you aren't already at your altitude because outside disturbances can build up error in even the best PID tuning until your controller says full elevator down/up.

Feed forward means the altitude control doesn't get to directly control the elevator. Instead you have a V speed controller in Vs mode or an IAS controller in FLC mode. The altitude control loop requests the services of the elevator controllers such that you are controlling the elevator to keep a safe V speed or IAS at all times on your way to the new altitude.

Cascade control let's it control another property of the plane dynamics as a control variable. I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about the flight rules in the jet liners but the basic idea is based on what altitude you need to get to and where your autothrottle is stuck, it figures out a decent IAS or Vs and plugs it into the elevator controllers which now controls your speeds on your level change.

All in all when your altitude error is high it's safely isolated from elevator control where more appropriate controllers can run the elevator. When you're just on an altitude hold, the error tends to be small and it can direct control the elevator without throwing you out of the sky.

"Autopilot can't throw you out of the sky" is like priority #1 of airplane digital controls so that they can't manage that simple idea for the last 5 months is... Illuminating.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Sapozhnik posted:

The problem isn't that the control loops are bad (although they are, LNAV will still hunt on radio navaids but everything else is more or less tolerable in the latest patches)

The problem is that the actual cockpit interface to the autopilot is broken. If you activate FLC on the ground it will set your target altitude to be the ground irrespective of whatever altitude bug you have. Which will of course lawn dart your plane as soon as you switch on AP shortly after takeoff.
That's the thing though, a Vs or a IAS controller doesn't have the authority to take the elevator anywhere interesting even if your altitude error is -1000. Grounding out the elevator in any direction shouldn't be in the cards here unless you are setting Vs or IAS outside your envelope and that's your error at that point.

Occasionally someone pops in like "oh that's what Vs means" but there's a ton of people setting their level change up right and the planes falling out of the sky, not least because the elevator controller built error based on stick input at one point. I think that was fixed a while ago but poo poo I don't trust the autopilot to do anything at this point to try.

E. especially if you mean you set your IAS for an FLC and it lawn darts with IAS error of 5-10 knots, lawn darting immediately builds error it should level out from which means the IAS controller is hosed if it doesn't figure out oh wait GENTLE

E.e. realistically if you set your FLC IAS controller to Vx or Vy and you have your throttle at 100% like a good little boy or girl taking off, the elevator controller shouldn't be able to find it in itself to nose down.

zedprime fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Nov 24, 2020

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

I don't think that's how it works. The game is already heavily CPU limited. I think it just struggles to find the cpu time necessary to keep up during time acceleration.
I'm not sure why that'd throw off a PID controller.

Besides that would just result in time acceleration not accelerating. Not a sim game dev but I think they just dilate time domain measurements so to speak. You go 5000 mph instead of 500 and wash out the physics back to normal forces so it still feels like flying.

A PID controller is fundamentally dependent on 1s = 1s so when it needs tuned for normal flight, the dilated regime needs a dilated tuning. A successfully damped normal tuning is very easy to turn under damped if suddenly everything is going 10x. PIDs aren't really made for that sort of disruption and wavey flight is the definition of under damped.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Just fly planes that approach at idle. Or remove any temptation to modulate throttle by killing the engines ahead of time.

Especially when you aren't paying for engine maintenance your throttle in approaches can handily be binary: idle and TOGA.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Less Fat Luke posted:

Did you know that revalidating files in Steam causes the game to instantly nuke your 200 gigs or whatever that the content manager downloads? Boy cause I sure didn't!
Oh that's what did it. Mine just stopped booting without revalidating and by the time I got in I needed to redownload. I thought I just deleted the content folder to make room for Dirt Rally 2.

Combat Pretzel posted:

On the download screen in-game, you can select a custom folder. Do that, one outside of the game install folder, to avoid this poo poo the next time.
But mine was outside the folder so either I did manually delete it or there's more to it.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Lord Stimperor posted:

I'm just shouting this into the room, but would anyone be interested in collaborating to design a control panel for MSFS 2020?

I've built a few earlier, one of them using laser-cut materials and a pro micro controller. I expect that if we put our heads together we could come up with a kit that's robust, useful, and can be easily replicated by others.
Someones already done all the hard work by actually making plane control interfaces so you can just reap the benefit and stencil a Garmin or your favorite MFD.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I did the stupidest thing I could have ever done last year and upgraded my CPU and motherboard to play Flight Sim when apparently I should have just waited to buy a 3070 premade system.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I'm a late SSD adopter so I'm less sensitized to long load times. But besides the ridiculous initial load, loading into flights is fairly fast. So you should just dedicate a computer to it to skip the initial load, obviously.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Perfect patch cycle to get a new graphics card lmao

Although I do kinda want to screw around a bit with the kit planes that were kites while the flaps were deployed even before a flaps bug.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

Wait, wasn't the flap fix going to be in the march 4th world update? Which they've now delayed a week (along with the next update) so they can push this hotfix out earlier. From last week:

Did... they just push back their entire update schedule a week so they can fix the flaps two days sooner? :psyduck:
Almost guarentee you it was already running late so the decision was to bundle up what was already working and important to start and end regression cycle early with the smaller scope instead of holding everything back.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
"Well Fix A is really important so Content B is gonna get pushed out" is the oldest trick in the book. It's technically true because the test burden goes up by splitting them but (and really because of that last part) it's a decision not made until Content B is very clearly not going to make it's date.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
My one and only technical wish is a patch downloader that doesn't require booting the whole game. MMOs have done this for 20 years.

I think I have as many flight hours as download hours right now. At least they frame limited/stopped rendering in the background during download I guess.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I am excited to have avionics APIs that Just Work for the modders who do not understand avionics like Carenado, and Asobo.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Not a helicopter sim expert but assuming they're not any more advanced than the state of the art flight sim objective mods which rudimentarily hook into sim connect to give you points for being in a certain place, you may be interested in Stormworks. Its an open world coast guard sim with an element builder workbench but you can easily download a bunch of popular helicopters off the marketplace, many of which will have fairly realistic avionics and encourage fairly realistic helicopter control if you look out for the realism focused ones.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

soggybagel posted:

Didn't they also kill updrafts or something? I remember reading that somewhere...was it in this thread?

I think the glaring issues becoming as glaring as they are with weather because it gets so much right but also looks really good.
For updrafts I think you might be thinking of the release month where the US had extremely messed up weather if you were using live. Something like there was no wind above a certain altitude so it was never gonna updraft.

Fly near a ridge with some surface winds now and you'll be suitably terrified. During that month of messed up wind it was eye opening to dick around US mountain ranges compared to the Alps.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

DaitoX posted:

Sure but if the date and time do nothing but change the sun position, why not just change the sun position directly?

Combat Pretzel posted:

Because you'd still get two sliders regardless. Elevation and azimuth instead of date and time.
Besides its a full astronomical work up of the sun, moon, and stars. In case you are, I don't know, navigating by star charts when you get way off you VFR bush trip. People took a field trip of neat astronomy days when the game came out.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I'm not sure the 3d modellers know how to fix sim avionic systems but you know what? They can't do any worse.

zedprime fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Apr 14, 2021

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Yes, the expensive IR camera software can give you an output of where your track dots are in the FOV.

That's useful for range of motion on horizontal and vertical skew, pitch, and roll but loss of tracking for too close is a little more immediately easy to figure out cause the track light goes out on the camera and it's for the exceedingly easy to figure out reason that you are too close. Compared to some of the more arcane crap like not having your camera pointed right or getting into those really magical conformations where the track clip pro somehow obscures itself.

Yearly reminder head tracking curves are personal and game specific. Ex. I generally dampen, add a threshold, or turn off roll because my head rolling usually means I see things sideways and I want to see things sideways. A good car curve is not gonna work out the box for planes for almost certain.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Oh sorry I wasn't being down on you posting your curve or anything, it's nice to have a starting point. For the person on TrackIR there's usually a bunch of profiles you can download from the forums per game too. But the best thing you can do is tweak them to match your set up since that's almost always different.

Changing profiles per game is probably more important changing whole genres than changing games within that genre. Flight sims are all gonna match pretty well cause they have a pretty well agreed upon idea of where a head goes in a cockpit. But like flight sim to racing, or even racing to truck driving, and especially anything to space sims tends to just have different needs and set ups so I am up to probably 4 or 5 profiles I lean on now.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

im pooping! posted:

I'm having what seems to be an incredibly niche control issue with MFS 2020 and I'm pretty decent at google and really can't find this issue anywhere.

The computer in my bedroom is a powerhouse. It basically runs the game perfect. I want to use Steam remote play to use my computer to do the heavy lifting and stream the game to a computer elsewhere in my house. Streaming the game isn't a problem, it seems to be fine, however I have an X52 I would like to use on the client PC and MFS doesn't seem to detect when it is plugged into the client PC, only the host PC. Aside from getting 100 ft of USB extensions with repeaters with a fleeting hope that this will work (I'm only sort of naive), is there a way I can trick the software into thinking the stick is plugged into the host PC? Has anyone had this issue? With any game/controller combination?
Haven't done this in MSFS but as alluded to your first step is get the stick recognized and mapped in Big Picture mode on the client PC. Everything needs recognized on it in Big Pictures controller handler to be sent to the host PC. Second step is it's probably gonna be recognized as a generic steam controller on MSFS side so even if you have a mapping for the stick you like on the host PC already you probably need a new one mapped for the generic device it's gonna recognize it as.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
How's the T16000 do in goony atmospheres? My T Flight One warranty replacement lasted about 3 months more and I can probably make it work again if I go in and tear all the cat hair and litter clay dust out of sensor bits but it's a cheap poo poo joystick so maybe the pricier ones would last a little better.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
My main malfunctions seem to be cat hair wrapping around things or dust clogging actions or sensors up so the rails being open are usuful for cleaning. How about the twist and joystick action? Is it even vaguely accessible?

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
My heart of hearts always figured Deadstick was too good to be true. Noone has even cloned My Summer Car yet while good driving models are a lot easier to find for Unity than flying models even besides modeling and simulating a parts based vehicle.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Was the demo inside a glass cockpit? Would be a shame if they improved the general pipeline and it still chokes on running UI and cockpit elements in a bad web browser.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
One day mankind may understand how the MSFS patcher works to be able to manage patching and installs without downloading 100gb twice a year but that day is not now. Got a new NVME to help me manage things, copied over the folder which I think was 75% done from the last time I started to do this, told the patcher about the new folder, and it seemingly deleted the folder to start again :confused:

Good news is it gives some time to patch some of the weird stuff. Bad news is maybe that will wipe the content again too if I don't finish in time.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

JayKay posted:

Apparently I am up to date and that hotfix might have been a silent install. Weird, since every other update I've had triggered the "Update required, where do you want to install it?" prompt.
There's two phases of updates. There's traditional updates that affect the raw crap in the install folder and there's content updates that patch planes, missions, and general content which is stored in your in game selected content folder so it double checks where its working on when it needs to do it. The last hot patch appears to be only the former and these should be pushed semi-auto based on your platform.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
These contract requirements are pretty specifically surrounding public perception. Especially when damage models are procedural and invented whole cloth for the game. But even still if they are accurate.

Everybody knows the stories about "don't dent our pretty cars" but the quieter requirement with huge impacts previously on simulation games is that a lot of manufacturers previously required the car to never be shown rolling, or even lifting a tire off the road. Even (especially?) when it'd be accurate to the center of gravity and forces happening. Up until probably about Forza Horizon got really big and on the stronger side of negotiation, all cars in car games tended toward super sticky except for games limited to the manufacturers with lesser requirements which made the field up for the really arcades games. Which isn't a big problem if you aren't like reenacting the Mercedes CLR flight and generally goofing off, but did let you set some sketchy aero in older Gran Turismos and Forzas and ride kerbs that should be lifting you off even briefly if not destabilizingly.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
The weather sim sees a hurricane as a bunch of unrelated thunderstorm cells which isn't 100% wrong but doesn't give you the creepy synoptic scale organization as you move from calculation cell to calculation cell and the walls don't line up or cumulonimbus stick out at odd points.

Still, plenty of wind to go zoom.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Nuts and Gum posted:

def sounds heat or power related, but if thats the case don't newer chipsets say something like ~~heat max exceeded~~ on next startup? maybe you can enable verbose logging in the BIOS...
Thats gonna depend if it is a heat trip, or a trip on heat related side effects. For example I can't use XMP without constant volt exceptions which are most likely a heat side effect because my power supply and mobo are bulletproof otherwise (optionally a bad batch I should RMA but :effort: and it really is in a stupid hot spot of the case). In other words it might be volt limiting out but due to heat issues if the power supply is otherwise quality.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
As a filthy casual it's kind of a hard discussion. Some of the instantly funnest planes are in the expensive editions. But they are encrypted to even skin them let alone get community fixes.

If you just want Maximum Plane and don't want or know how to navigate the payware market it's fine probably. But yeah, you can get much better value out of payware on top of the base game if you're into that sort of thing.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
The game overly bothers with moonlight. Check your date and time and the moon phase and transit. It's very possible it wasn't in the sky or lit up when you were flying.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Hardwood is probably easier to plan for. Rubber feet are far more reliable in my experience compared to carpet combs. If your gear only has carpet combs then you just need to spring for some rubber feet or rubber wrap.

Neither are perfect though which is why rigs ultimately exist.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I fly with a controller, and an old Driving Force GT. The wheel itself gives me a whole set of extra buttons, and the pedals are of a cheapness and vintage the gas and brake are similar resistance and not entirely dissimilar throw so they work as a rudder. It's not right, but it's better than everything that isn't a rudder peddle.

And yeah most drivers have brake-gas combined axis options because that's just how racing games were in the dark ages.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Is it always a specific landing step it happens? I know last time you mentioned it's typically when starting braking. IIRC there are TOGA toggle binds that pin throttle to max regardless if that toggle physically exists in the cockpit or interlocks with the throttle position. So I'd also expect overlapped binds with that or similar toggles.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Controlled random weather is hard because that's basically a full on weather simulation if you ask it to simulate 1 or more organized systems across 2000 miles and 4 hours and those barely exist in supercomputers. Weather directors can fake it probably well enough to make interesting weather to fly through but that involves some intense content creation. Live weather is such an intriguing cheat because the earth itself is the best weather simulator available. The next step would be historical weather and a good index of interesting (or less interesting) times to fly. That's maybe seemingly easier to serve than live weather but I guess that depends on how neatly (and cheaply) you'd be able to store the historical weather.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
IR is a more reliable tracking solution especially if you have strange front or backlighting situations in your room. But its weird Track IR has a monopoly for the price they do. The DIY middle ground is you can basically get a open source track IR style tracker for $30 if you get some IR LEDs, a webcam with no/a removable IR filter, and download some open source tracking software. Its a luxury tax to avoid that fiddling.

And really at the end of the day, head tracking is just turning your head into a joystick to free up your other joysticks and the face recognition ones are fairly decent at that with little to no fiddling beyond the track curve set ups you're doing in Track IR anyway. Webcams are very nearly the new USB storage sticks in their ubiquity so its definitely an easy thing to try.

Throwing all that shade as a happy Track IR owner, lol.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Number_6 posted:

How is the FS 2020 experience if your broadband isn't great (say, 25-50 Mbps speed, like lower tier AT&T non-gigabit plans)? Does it need a really fast connection while you are actually flying?
MSFS is made for America, where 25 is a great speed.

I think the benchmark for reasonable results is 1080p video which is 5Mbps, or like Sagebrush said a few replies ago Netflix level bandwidth. Unless you are doing weird stuff like low altitude high speed flights or skewing 2000 miles and expecting it to pick up without a hitch. It's a trickle and depending on your SSD and motherboard bus situation, is not likely to be the problem because it's really a pretty simple data structure that then needs to call gigabytes and gigabytes of textures from the base install into memory.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
If you just did normal visual rules GA from unlicensed airport to unlicensed airport how long would it take air cops to catch on?

Did I just accidentally reinvent drug smuggling?

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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
New (to me) ways of hating MSFS downloads now that I am a multiple gaming PC haver: Steam license requires an active Steam log in to connect to online services. Online services include content downloads. That means if I want to play some other games while it downloads 100gb I need to do it on the PC where the CPU is dedicated to unpacking downloads instead of on the PC that is actually free.

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