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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Getting the DLC without the game makes total sense from the Game pass policy point of view. They warn you as much but maybe not as prominently as they could. It's just MSFS deluxe add-ons are an insane gotcha where the add on costs as much as a new license so it sure feels like fraud when your game pass flight sim links you to the DLC for $90 instead of the full license for $90.

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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Sagebrush posted:

That's not very typical, I'd like to make that point.
Well how is it untypical?

SuperTeeJay posted:

I made the mistake of turning on AP with a selected altitude of 2,000ft while half-way through the East Coast discovery tour and at 3,500ft - the plane immediately nosedived and came apart. I'm hoping that type of poo poo can't happen in real life.

Alpenglow posted:

For anyone on the fence about FS 2020 due to lower end hardware, I'm enjoying autopilot hurling my plane groundward at a much higher subjective performance than expected with a 2 gig gtx960 and 46xx i5. It feels smoother than full detail FSX most of the time. Using 70% render scaling with TAA wizardry looks great at 2560x1080 with low/medium settings at 40fps.

The autopilot randomly deciding that FL100 means FL0 on activation is a little offputting though.
Uhh guys I'm starting to think they might not have any digital controls people on the team.

Altitude change is the textbook example of a feed forward control (Garmin) or cascade control (jet liner flight rules that manage IAS and junk for you). A regular control loop looks at the process variable and directly sets a control variable to try and reach the process variable. This is like altitude hold: you'd plug in a altitude and it would directly control your elevator until you reach that altitude. This is dangerous when you aren't already at your altitude because outside disturbances can build up error in even the best PID tuning until your controller says full elevator down/up.

Feed forward means the altitude control doesn't get to directly control the elevator. Instead you have a V speed controller in Vs mode or an IAS controller in FLC mode. The altitude control loop requests the services of the elevator controllers such that you are controlling the elevator to keep a safe V speed or IAS at all times on your way to the new altitude.

Cascade control let's it control another property of the plane dynamics as a control variable. I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about the flight rules in the jet liners but the basic idea is based on what altitude you need to get to and where your autothrottle is stuck, it figures out a decent IAS or Vs and plugs it into the elevator controllers which now controls your speeds on your level change.

All in all when your altitude error is high it's safely isolated from elevator control where more appropriate controllers can run the elevator. When you're just on an altitude hold, the error tends to be small and it can direct control the elevator without throwing you out of the sky.

"Autopilot can't throw you out of the sky" is like priority #1 of airplane digital controls so that they can't manage that simple idea for the last 5 months is... Illuminating.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Sapozhnik posted:

The problem isn't that the control loops are bad (although they are, LNAV will still hunt on radio navaids but everything else is more or less tolerable in the latest patches)

The problem is that the actual cockpit interface to the autopilot is broken. If you activate FLC on the ground it will set your target altitude to be the ground irrespective of whatever altitude bug you have. Which will of course lawn dart your plane as soon as you switch on AP shortly after takeoff.
That's the thing though, a Vs or a IAS controller doesn't have the authority to take the elevator anywhere interesting even if your altitude error is -1000. Grounding out the elevator in any direction shouldn't be in the cards here unless you are setting Vs or IAS outside your envelope and that's your error at that point.

Occasionally someone pops in like "oh that's what Vs means" but there's a ton of people setting their level change up right and the planes falling out of the sky, not least because the elevator controller built error based on stick input at one point. I think that was fixed a while ago but poo poo I don't trust the autopilot to do anything at this point to try.

E. especially if you mean you set your IAS for an FLC and it lawn darts with IAS error of 5-10 knots, lawn darting immediately builds error it should level out from which means the IAS controller is hosed if it doesn't figure out oh wait GENTLE

E.e. realistically if you set your FLC IAS controller to Vx or Vy and you have your throttle at 100% like a good little boy or girl taking off, the elevator controller shouldn't be able to find it in itself to nose down.

zedprime fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Nov 24, 2020

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

I don't think that's how it works. The game is already heavily CPU limited. I think it just struggles to find the cpu time necessary to keep up during time acceleration.
I'm not sure why that'd throw off a PID controller.

Besides that would just result in time acceleration not accelerating. Not a sim game dev but I think they just dilate time domain measurements so to speak. You go 5000 mph instead of 500 and wash out the physics back to normal forces so it still feels like flying.

A PID controller is fundamentally dependent on 1s = 1s so when it needs tuned for normal flight, the dilated regime needs a dilated tuning. A successfully damped normal tuning is very easy to turn under damped if suddenly everything is going 10x. PIDs aren't really made for that sort of disruption and wavey flight is the definition of under damped.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Just fly planes that approach at idle. Or remove any temptation to modulate throttle by killing the engines ahead of time.

Especially when you aren't paying for engine maintenance your throttle in approaches can handily be binary: idle and TOGA.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Less Fat Luke posted:

Did you know that revalidating files in Steam causes the game to instantly nuke your 200 gigs or whatever that the content manager downloads? Boy cause I sure didn't!
Oh that's what did it. Mine just stopped booting without revalidating and by the time I got in I needed to redownload. I thought I just deleted the content folder to make room for Dirt Rally 2.

Combat Pretzel posted:

On the download screen in-game, you can select a custom folder. Do that, one outside of the game install folder, to avoid this poo poo the next time.
But mine was outside the folder so either I did manually delete it or there's more to it.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Lord Stimperor posted:

I'm just shouting this into the room, but would anyone be interested in collaborating to design a control panel for MSFS 2020?

I've built a few earlier, one of them using laser-cut materials and a pro micro controller. I expect that if we put our heads together we could come up with a kit that's robust, useful, and can be easily replicated by others.
Someones already done all the hard work by actually making plane control interfaces so you can just reap the benefit and stencil a Garmin or your favorite MFD.

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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


I did the stupidest thing I could have ever done last year and upgraded my CPU and motherboard to play Flight Sim when apparently I should have just waited to buy a 3070 premade system.

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