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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

If I recall correctly, as far as the house design itself is concerned the big things are making sure that the roof and siding are not easily flammable, because the #1 way fire spreads is by embers blowing in the wind and landing on something that can burn. So stuff like cedar shingles are out, but tar shingles with the pebbles embedded is OK and so is metal. Stucco siding of course is a solid pick, I think hardyboard also works well? Don't take my half-remembered musings as fact though.

On a similar note, isn't it mostly all that ground brush that burns? If you can keep the blackberries and grass and so on cleared out and under control, that ought to reduce your risk.

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immoral_
Oct 20, 2007

So fresh and so clean.



Young Orc

In before kastein just builds the whole house out of scrounged engine blocks, I-beams and concrete.

UCS Hellmaker
Mar 29, 2008

mega. milk.

Toilet Rascal

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

If I recall correctly, as far as the house design itself is concerned the big things are making sure that the roof and siding are not easily flammable, because the #1 way fire spreads is by embers blowing in the wind and landing on something that can burn. So stuff like cedar shingles are out, but tar shingles with the pebbles embedded is OK and so is metal. Stucco siding of course is a solid pick, I think hardyboard also works well? Don't take my half-remembered musings as fact though.

On a similar note, isn't it mostly all that ground brush that burns? If you can keep the blackberries and grass and so on cleared out and under control, that ought to reduce your risk.

Metal roof is probably the best bet

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


The plan is standing seam metal roofs. I don't ever want to do a roof again.

Exterior wall covering I was debating between hardiboard, vinyl, and cedar shakes. I may do vinyl first just because it's fast and cheap and will give me time to let finances recover (ha! Like that ever happens), or might do hardiboard lookalike cedar shakes. I really like the way shakes look but they certainly are flammable, we use low grade ones from my shim shingle bundle as firestarter material out east.

Trim will be 100% PVC. I don't ever want to have to worry about rot.

Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!




cakesmith handyman posted:

Dig a basement the whole house can slot down into with a solid fireproof ceiling cap.
Observation dome, air filtration, hydraulic lift mechanism etc left to your usual mechanical aptitude.

I need to see something like that Dahir Insaat earthquake bed.

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005



kastein posted:

The plan is standing seam metal roofs. I don't ever want to do a roof again.

Holy poo poo

Re: Trees near your home. As someone who deals with trees falling on poo poo regularly, I'd say keep it to stuff that is resistant to wind if you leave anything within striking distance. Many species of pine, maple, cedar, gum trees are right out, as they will grow taller than their root structure can handle and will blow over.

Also chinaberry and bradford pear, but neither of those have any good place and should be nuked from outer space IMO.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Oh holy poo poo, I read something a while ago that said the major cost was labor and I guess either I was wrong or cost has gone way up. Because I'm not paying the price I see listed for that. Asphalt it is.

UCS Hellmaker
Mar 29, 2008

mega. milk.

Toilet Rascal

Don't do. Cedar, it's gonna be a bitch and requires painting at least every few years to not rot with that humidity. And the fire risk is huge

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


If fire is a big deal where you are building, why not a brick facade? The house can still be stick frame construction, the facade is built with an air gap between the main house structure so air can travel and it won't become a spot where humidity is capture and causes rot. I think that's a pretty decent solution and upkeep is a lot easier.

I've seen some nice houses where half the facade is brick and then it switches over to wood.

Sheet metal roof would be my preference, or tiles. Both won't burn.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari


Building materials have gone crazy due to Covid I am told by my contractor friend. Things that used to take a week to arrive now take a 6 weeks from when you order them, and the prices are whacky.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

A loving pine 2x4 is $6 here. PT is basically unavailable. 5/8" BC plywood is $40 a sheet. It's crazy town.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


Can confirm loving insanity for wood. We got a quote on a shed last year for $2300 installed. Same build is now $5100.

drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003
luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Of course wood's expensive, it's not like it grows on trees.

Hutla
Jun 5, 2004

It's mechanical

I work in logistics and we move a lot of building materials around the country. I can confirm that not only are you gonna pay more for the materials themselves, you're also going to pay at least twice what it cost a year ago to move them from whatever port/distribution hub they originated from to your local area. Trucking is insane right now.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

MESS WITH THE OWL GET DISEMBOWEL





kastein posted:

The plan is standing seam metal roofs. I don't ever want to do a roof again.

Exterior wall covering I was debating between hardiboard, vinyl, and cedar shakes. I may do vinyl first just because it's fast and cheap and will give me time to let finances recover (ha! Like that ever happens), or might do hardiboard lookalike cedar shakes. I really like the way shakes look but they certainly are flammable, we use low grade ones from my shim shingle bundle as firestarter material out east.

Trim will be 100% PVC. I don't ever want to have to worry about rot.

Oh no, gently caress vinyl siding, it's hideous, and it allows poo poo to grow up behind it if you're not careful, also difficult to repair, also it will hide water intrusion problems.

Hardi's pretty awesome for what it is, won't rot, doesn't burn, cheap enough.

Definitely take another look at standing seam roofs when it's time to put one on, there's lots of local manufacturers and you may find a good deal.

Re: fireproofing, Western Washington, especially out here on the Peninsulas, is still pretty low risk for fires, although your neighbor's, notoriously, uh, flammable hobbies might pose an increased risk. Obviously climate change is actively increasing the risk every year too.

That being said, having, say 50' of firebreak around your house is a good idea for a bunch of reasons, it'll help with trees dropping needles and leaves and poo poo all over your roof and gutters, it'll help with trees not blowing over and crushing your house, it'll help you remove diseased trees if necessary. With 5 acres of land you can still absolutely feel like you're nestled in the trees, while avoiding all the risks that come with that. I'm looking out my window right now, and pretty much all I see is giant firs and maples, but none of them are close enough to damage my house, that's the luxury of having a nice big property.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

Why standing seam and not just metal? Standing seam is a lot of labor and, unless it's for looks, doesn't make a lot of sense these days. It's literally a leftover from before stamping metal on the scale of roofing sizes was practical.

Unless that's exactly what you're talking about and some areas call all metal roofing panels standing seam.

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005



I think the advantage of standing seam is that the hardware is hidden and not exposed to the elements. The other types of metal roofing panels I'm familiar with require exposed screws with rubber washers. They perform well but don't last forever.

It's also available in a heavy gauge, seems to be most popular (edit - here, in the US southeast) for commercial buildings where low maintenance and storm performance make it worth the cost.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

angryrobots posted:

I think the advantage of standing seam is that the hardware is hidden and not exposed to the elements. The other types of metal roofing panels I'm familiar with require exposed screws with rubber washers. They perform well but don't last forever.

It's also available in a heavy gauge, seems to be most popular (edit - here, in the US southeast) for commercial buildings where low maintenance and storm performance make it worth the cost.

No doubt about lasting longer because yeah, you have those rubber gaskets on the weird combo self tapper sheet metal and wood screws. I'm not seeing any new building in my area of the northeast using legit standing seam. If you're in an area where that's not specialty labor (like it is here - that's right up there with river stone rubble wall masonry repair for your 1700/1800s farm house) it makes a lot of sense for longevity, but coming from where I'm at I'm thinking it's ridiculously expensive. Guess not in the right areas.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

Motronic posted:

No doubt about lasting longer because yeah, you have those rubber gaskets on the weird combo self tapper sheet metal and wood screws. I'm not seeing any new building in my area of the northeast using legit standing seam. If you're in an area where that's not specialty labor (like it is here - that's right up there with river stone rubble wall masonry repair for your 1700/1800s farm house) it makes a lot of sense for longevity, but coming from where I'm at I'm thinking it's ridiculously expensive. Guess not in the right areas.

Kind of like veneer plaster. Try to get it done outside of New England, it's hideously expensive. Around here, it's about 10% more than drywall, but only takes a day and there's no dust. It's also far far more durable.

Ken, you should learn to do it! It's maddeningly simple looking, but a real bitch to get right.

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005



Motronic posted:

If you're in an area where that's not specialty labor (like it is here - that's right up there with river stone rubble wall masonry repair for your 1700/1800s farm house) it makes a lot of sense for longevity, but coming from where I'm at I'm thinking it's ridiculously expensive. Guess not in the right areas.

It is absolutely specially roofing here and very expensive. That was Elviscat suggesting to shop around, he is local to Washington I think. I see it here in SC on commercial properties like utility offices, government buildings, schools, etc. Stuff that's built to spec and where the occupant doesn't expect to move for a long time.

I've seen one residence with a standing seam roof, and the guy was a contractor who self-built and he told me just the roofing was $80k. Granted it was a large house (I'd guess 4500 sq ft) but the roof was an extremely uncomplicated, plain hip design with no dormers or anything.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

What is it that makes standing seam so expensive? It's just fairly thin-gauge sheet metal with a few bends in it, right? I get that it's easy to gently caress up the installation, but IIRC kastein implied that even if you ignore labor costs it's really expensive.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

MESS WITH THE OWL GET DISEMBOWEL





Maybe there's a terminology issue, when I think standing-seam roofing.it looks like I'm thinking of R-panel, which is what I usually see in residential applications.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I saw prices in the 3 to 4 dollar a square foot range when I checked it again after you all told me it was expensive.

I don't like the kind with the exposed screws. That only lasts as long as the gaskets on the screws which entirely ruins the point of using it. The roof on my hangar is done that way and dozens of screw holes are leaking right now because the rubber donuts have dried up and rotted, the place is a wreck.

And yeah, elviscat is local. Hell, I'm pretty sure after last week my land has his blood on it sorry it's so drat thorny still dude.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


My sister is in Portland so hurry up and get out there so I have an excuse to go visit her.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

Elviscat posted:

Maybe there's a terminology issue, when I think standing-seam roofing.it looks like I'm thinking of R-panel, which is what I usually see in residential applications.



So that looks like you're talking about steel roofing panels, not actual standing seam that you'd see on 1800's construction. The standing seam roofing I'm talking about is made from rolls of steel and is literally soldered and folded at the joints. It's horrendously labor intensive.

How does the stuff you posted work? Because it looks like various styles of roofing panels that I can get here, all of which you'd be using gasketed screws to install.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


What I'm talking about is made from galvanized steel or aluminum these days and is apparently called SL150. Every website selling it is playing real coy about the price and trying to get me to ask for a quote which I loving hate. Just tell me the goddamn price, people. Anyways, it snap locks on over bracket things you screw down every 12 to 24 inches depending on wind loading.

I asked one site to spam me forever, if it's crazy expensive I'm buying gaf elk timberline HD architectural shingles again. I've been pretty happy with them here and they come out to around a dollar a square foot.

stackofflapjacks
Apr 7, 2009

Mmmmm



I'm wondering about where you are finding cheap land, on the peninsula? Or one of the islands in the sound? I have family all over the I-5 corridor but I'm looking for the future home plot that is secluded and comes with a few acres. Obviously not trying to get your exact address but just wondering about the area and your site selection.

StormDrain
May 22, 2003

Thirteen Letter


Motronic posted:

So that looks like you're talking about steel roofing panels, not actual standing seam that you'd see on 1800's construction. The standing seam roofing I'm talking about is made from rolls of steel and is literally soldered and folded at the joints. It's horrendously labor intensive.

How does the stuff you posted work? Because it looks like various styles of roofing panels that I can get here, all of which you'd be using gasketed screws to install.

That's what we call standing seam in Colorado, for commercial construction at least. Hidden fasteners and clips at the vertical and overlapped with the next panel. Long lasting and durable. I've used Berridge a few times now.

https://www.berridge.com/products/standing-seam-systems/

Very popular in mountain towns here, outfitted with snow gems and snowmelt cable.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


stackofflapjacks posted:

I'm wondering about where you are finding cheap land, on the peninsula? Or one of the islands in the sound? I have family all over the I-5 corridor but I'm looking for the future home plot that is secluded and comes with a few acres. Obviously not trying to get your exact address but just wondering about the area and your site selection.

Check zipcode 98351 and 98349. Be warned that commuting from there to anywhere except port orchard or bremerton will be horrible and it might cost you 5 figures to get your power hooked up.

dreesemonkey
May 14, 2008


Pillbug

Motronic posted:

So that looks like you're talking about steel roofing panels, not actual standing seam that you'd see on 1800's construction. The standing seam roofing I'm talking about is made from rolls of steel and is literally soldered and folded at the joints. It's horrendously labor intensive.

How does the stuff you posted work? Because it looks like various styles of roofing panels that I can get here, all of which you'd be using gasketed screws to install.

This is a good video of how it works. This guy does great, very maticulous work. All his videos are worth a look and I posted them a few times for kastein to consider when he builds his shop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfkTB-vGOdI

rdb
Jul 8, 2002
chicken mctesticles?

I just had “40 year” textured burnished slate standing seam metal put on a house. For someone else to do it, along with taking 3 chimneys down, venting ridge caps, removing the 90 year old standing seam terne roof, plus all the trim work, it was $23k. For an “ag metal” metal roof and ceiling liner on a 24 x 50 garage over the existing shingles it was $6k. They said the standing seam will last about 5 years longer. Most of the cost was labor and trim. On a house without a ton of trim and peaks/eaves it would have been half that. On my new place we will probably be doing the same standing seam roof, with ag metal or cement board siding. Standing seam is about $6k more than ag metal roofing, but no fasteners to worry about.

If fire is a concern I would go with ag metal.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

Okay, so regional terminology difference. This is nothing that anyone in a trade here would call "standing seam". Sure, some of it looks like standing seam, but it's just stell roofing panels with a hidden fastener system. Actual standing seam is soldered together as I mentioned. But that's not something someone the west coast would have been likely to ever come across. In the Boston to DC corridor it's really drat common. I saw a decent amount of it in the south as well.

I doubt any of it has been installed on new construction since the 1930s or earlier. Also, it's not often used on normal pitched roofs (you'd find slate there) and is more of a solution for low pitch porch roofs and other places that would most likely get a rubber roof these days.

Motronic fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Oct 8, 2020

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005



Noun

standing seam (plural standing seams)

(roofing) A type of seam between adjacent sheets of metal roofing material made by turning up the edges of two adjacent panels and then folding or interlocking them in a variety of ways.

Minus Pants
Jul 18, 2004


What are your internet options like out there? I'm in Seattle but have been looking to build a pole barn in a cheaper area for workshop/tinkering space. It'd be nice to set it up to occasionally work remotely too, but it seems like a lot of places max out at 1.5mbps DSL.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Options at present:
Dialup if you can get anyone to string copper that far out
Wave if you're North of a certain point on the peninsula which we are not
Hughesnet satellite (the first H is silent)
Two cans and a very long piece of string

That's... About it. No cable, no dsl this far south. At all. No fiber.

If things go well for starlink I'll probably be a customer. If they go poorly I hope to start my own ISP and sell internet to a few hundred of my neighbors instead of having a corporate job.

n0tqu1tesane
May 7, 2003

She was rubbing her ass all over my hands. They don't just do that for everyone.

Grimey Drawer

kastein posted:

Options at present:
Dialup if you can get anyone to string copper that far out
Wave if you're North of a certain point on the peninsula which we are not
Hughesnet satellite (the first H is silent)
Two cans and a very long piece of string

That's... About it. No cable, no dsl this far south. At all. No fiber.

If things go well for starlink I'll probably be a customer. If they go poorly I hope to start my own ISP and sell internet to a few hundred of my neighbors instead of having a corporate job.

I'm going with fixed cellular with a couple directional antennas for our rural river house. Was able to get a supposedly true unlimited T-Mobile SIM through a special deal with my wife's job. Got the setup and tested it the last couple weeks and it's solid so far. 30 down 10 up pretty consistently. House won't be finished for another couple months, so I haven't done the permanent install yet.

Here it is in testing at our family place two lots over, pointed at a tower 7 miles away. There's another tower closer, but I wasn't able to get a good shot at it from this house.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I only get 1 to 2 bars of Verizon in one corner of the property. That is an option with a nice directional antenna like you have but I'm hoping to not rely on it.

jink
May 8, 2002

Drop it like it's Hot.

Taco Defender

n0tqu1tesane posted:

I'm going with fixed cellular with a couple directional antennas for our rural river house. Was able to get a supposedly true unlimited T-Mobile SIM through a special deal with my wife's job. Got the setup and tested it the last couple weeks and it's solid so far. 30 down 10 up pretty consistently. House won't be finished for another couple months, so I haven't done the permanent install yet.

Here it is in testing at our family place two lots over, pointed at a tower 7 miles away. There's another tower closer, but I wasn't able to get a good shot at it from this house.



This is so awesome. I need to send this to my ex co-worker that lives in the middle of nowhere with zero internet, much like kestein

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



jink posted:

This is so awesome. I need to send this to my ex co-worker that lives in the middle of nowhere with zero internet, much like kestein

What you going to do, print it and post it?

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n0tqu1tesane
May 7, 2003

She was rubbing her ass all over my hands. They don't just do that for everyone.

Grimey Drawer

kastein posted:

I only get 1 to 2 bars of Verizon in one corner of the property. That is an option with a nice directional antenna like you have but I'm hoping to not rely on it.

My cousins with T-Mobile usually only get 1-2 bars at that property, and receiving calls indoors is hit and miss. It really is amazing what some decent directional antennas will do.

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