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Historical Candidates: I think Sputnik Monroe would be a good choice. Ole Anderson amuses me because it almost doesn't matter how much he does or doesn't deserve to be in, I think too many people dislike him too much to vote for him. Modern US/Canada: Agree with MRT that this really might just be the Hardys. Japan: Man. If I had a vote, I'd start with CIMA and Taue. If I had a vote I'd definitely vote for Hayabusa, but I can't evaluate him objectively. But there are like five other people on this list who could get in and I'd say "yeah, that makes sense." Mexico: Caristico and Los Brazos, sure. I'm not comfortable enough with the other categories to pick out the people I think are comparatively deserving.
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Oct 3, 2020 18:18
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Steiners are the greatest tag team of all time and if they can't get into the HOF then the whole thing is worthless
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Oct 3, 2020 19:45
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Paper Lion posted:Steiners are the greatest tag team of all time and if they can't get into the HOF then the whole thing is worthless They aren't even the best tag team of the 90s. Maybe top 10.
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Oct 3, 2020 20:28
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Numero6 posted:Johnny “Mr. Wrestling II” Walker: Got invited by the president at the White House but had to unmask, so he said "no" to not break kayfabe.
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Oct 3, 2020 20:32
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Paper Lion posted:Steiners are the greatest tag team of all time and if they can't get into the HOF then the whole thing is worthless Steiners t-shirts and other merchandise should be in the hall of fame.
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Oct 4, 2020 00:42
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Also gotta say I legit keep being surprised that Akira Taue isn't already in the Hall of Fame. I know he was considered the "least" of the Four Pillars, but he was still one of the Four Pillars!
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Oct 4, 2020 01:17
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Jerusalem posted:Also gotta say I legit keep being surprised that Akira Taue isn't already in the Hall of Fame. I know he was considered the "least" of the Four Pillars, but he was still one of the Four Pillars! It's weird to think about, but while being regarded on a level below the others still makes him good, obv, it also makes him suffer in the comparison when the other three were no-doubt legends and all-time greats. For example: he has several fewer five-star Meltzer ratings than any of the others, and not only was Misawa on the other side of every one of them, only one was a singles match. All of his others are either teaming with Kawada against Misawa and (Kobashi and/or Akiyama), or teaming with Jumbo and Fuchi against Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi. Especially looking back almost 25 years, that kind of thing raises the question, "was he that good, or was he just surrounded by the literal best?"
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Oct 4, 2020 01:37
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Taue was more interesting in NOAH, I'd argue, where you really got to see his chops for putting together a match, especially in the series with Marufuji and the surprise title win over Rikio.
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Oct 4, 2020 01:43
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disaster pastor posted:Especially looking back almost 25 years, that kind of thing raises the question, "was he that good, or was he just surrounded by the literal best?" I guess it comes down to asking whether anybody else thrown into the exact same position would have done as well - on the one hand, it's easy to say,"Well yeah look at the other guys in the ring!" but there's plenty of times in wrestling history we've seen a wrestler fail to raise their game despite enormously talented opposition, and watching those Taue matches I never had the sense he was being carried or elevated, he was really, really loving good and just so happened to be in there at the same time as some of the literal best wrestlers in all of recorded history. Maybe I just have a soft spot for the Ken Nortons of the world, who were great at the same time as the likes of Ali, Frazier and Foreman. 
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Oct 4, 2020 01:52
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Taue's case is something a lot of Hall's struggle with when dealing with dynasty's. When you get an athelete who's really good but has all timers around him/her voters start to wonder if it was due to the other atheltes. And in Taue's case it wasn't just Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada but also the foreigner talent at the time like Hansen/Gordy/Steve Williams. Also never really had a long reign as a singles guy or had periods where was set up to be the main draw despite not having a title like say Chono had in New Japan
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Oct 4, 2020 02:20
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Don't get me wrong, I'd put Taue in, like I said above. I got into puro through AJPW in the '90s, and Kawada has always been my favorite of the four so I saw a lot of Taue as well. But I can see why he's not in yet, and I can see the argument for not voting for him.
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Oct 4, 2020 03:57
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On a different tack, is there any argument for Sergeant Slaughter to go in? He had a good run in the AWA (I think?) and one Wrestlemania main event that was disastrous financially, has he really done anything else beyond longevity of character to warrant being a Hall of Famer?
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Oct 4, 2020 04:10
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Slaughter had some hot runs in the Carolina's and the WWF in the Early 80's including the WWF's first 5 star match. Also has the GI Joe cartoon part/figure. However it was a short hot run and his AWA stint didn't draw so while he's fine on the ballot i don't see him making it in.
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Oct 4, 2020 04:22
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i dont really see enough there for slaughter.
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Oct 4, 2020 04:48
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Paper Lion posted:Steiners are the greatest tag team of all time and if they can't get into the HOF then the whole thing is worthless        
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Oct 7, 2020 04:24
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Hell yeah, the Steiners not being in is baffling.
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Oct 7, 2020 04:51
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And thats not even getting to Big Poppa Pump era who was one of the few highlights in the decline of WCW and left a mark influencing guys like Brian Cage Or Rick during his era as The Varsity Club
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Oct 7, 2020 16:15
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Lid posted:And thats not even getting to Big Poppa Pump era who was one of the few highlights in the decline of WCW and left a mark influencing guys like Brian Cage Well, someone's singles run would not be considered as part of their work as a tag team.
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Oct 7, 2020 16:17
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Then dont bring up Broken Matt Hardy
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Oct 7, 2020 16:19
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Lid posted:Then dont bring up Broken Matt Hardy The Broken Hardys were literally a tag team. Whether or not people want to weigh this heavily in their vote, on some level the Broken gimmick was a storyline about them reuniting. The Steiners were also a tag team after Rick turned heel and joined Scott with his facial hair the reverse of Scott's. They really sucked then!
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Oct 7, 2020 17:09
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There's a week left and...I'm not really sure how I'm voting? There's been so much turnover between last year's inductions, last year's eliminations, and this year's new candidates that it's resulted in a field with a glut of interesting candidates but not necessarily slam dunks, at least in U.S./Canada. I had considered Mr. Wrestling II to be at that level, but even though it's far from a Hall Of Good People, I feel weird voting for him since learning about his gang rape conviction.
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Oct 8, 2020 06:18
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where are we on goldberg? do we have anything to show if his last few returns did anything for business?
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Oct 8, 2020 06:46
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JOHN CENA posted:where are we on goldberg? do we have anything to show if his last few returns did anything for business? i think his first return did good, but everything after has been bad
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Oct 8, 2020 06:50
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If you didn't watch when the Steiners first became a thing, you don't understand how massive they were. They were THE tag team for that period.
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Oct 8, 2020 14:36
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Steiners problem is they don't have a lot of years as hall of fame level team, and never really were the top draw in NWA/WCW like the Midnights or the Rock and Roll's. And while influential for a period they don't quite have the legacy that say the Hardy's have of team chasing them. And while yes they were big in Japan they also we never the top foreign team there either, always being behind the Miracle Violence connection and the Can-Am's
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Oct 8, 2020 16:55
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if goldberg isnt in your hall of fame then your criteria is faulty and you should change the name to hall of very specific merit
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Oct 8, 2020 17:12
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Super No Vacancy posted:if goldberg isnt in your hall of fame then your criteria is faulty and you should change the name to hall of very specific merit Goldberg isn't in my hall of fame because he did the Saudi show. Sorry, but your criteria are wrong. Not because of the Genocide Propaganda, I just don't think anyone who has wrestled The Fiend is a Hall of Famer.
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Oct 8, 2020 17:18
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MassRafTer posted:Goldberg isn't in my hall of fame because he did the Saudi show. Sorry, but your criteria are wrong. Agreed, they should remove Daniel Bryan.
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Oct 8, 2020 19:57
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Numero6 posted:Agreed, they should remove Daniel Bryan. Now we're talking.
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Oct 8, 2020 20:05
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Need to open the criminal wing of the hall and see if it matches or exceeds Baseball and Football's criminal wing
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Oct 8, 2020 20:30
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i would be surprised if you could find a wrestler who isn't a criminal
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Oct 8, 2020 23:54
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listened to Karl Stern's Hall of Fame ballot and yep he's voting for the Steiner's partly for, in his own words, "there was a time where they were easily the best tag team in the world and it wasn't close" and everything else on how they influenced so many that came after (his argument for why he always pushed for the inclusion of the Rock N Roll Express despite Robert Gibson being abysmal).
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Oct 9, 2020 00:09
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the steiners dont have a legacy in the sense that they were so good and powerful and big and strong and fast in such a freakish way that no tag team can watch their tapes and steal all their poo poo yet, its like 30 years later and some of their stuff, especially scotts, is STILL ahead of its time in some respects.
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Oct 9, 2020 00:50
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Karl Stern is great for knowing dates when matches happened but in terms of rating wrestlers... I mean until recently he was pushing Sgt Slaughter for the Hall basing it on the logic that it is a Hall of FAME and he was very famous, and then reversed course when it turned out Sarge wasn't a real troop. The Steiners were probably the best American tag team for a year or two, but worldwide? Not even close. Were they better than the Holy Demon Army? No way, after 93 The Holy Demon Army were clearly superior. Were they better than Kobashi and Kikuchi? I guess you could make the argument. Better than Misawa and Kobashi? No way. Better than Eddy and Love Machine? No way. The Brazos? No way! I'm not even sure I'd say they were the best American tag team because you had the Midnights and RNR overlapping the start of the Steiners hot period. The Steiners were a great tag team in the mid 90s. They were legitimate stars in Japan and I enjoyed watching them on Nitro even though they weren't really that great as a team anymore. They are worthy of consideration. But I think when people actually look at how many great tag teams there were in the 90s the Steiners don't stack up as much as our childhoods might want them to. Especially when you look at All Japan and Mexico. I think I just sold myself on a vote for Taue though. Honestly the Steiners are to me really hurt by that WWF run because tag teams were never going to be important in Vince McMahons WWF and really didn't/couldn't have many memorable matches. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Oct 9, 2020 |
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Oct 9, 2020 01:40
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The WWE run hurt them a lot but it was really Scott getting hurt which stopped them from doing a lot of their big impressive power moves that ended their run as a top team Also I'd rate the Furnas/Lafon ahead of the Steiners too
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Oct 9, 2020 02:01
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wild how wwe runs keep killing these guys HOF chances
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Oct 9, 2020 07:50
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I mean I agree with Dave and Tenay on the WOR Hall of Fame podcast that Kota dodged ruining his hall chances by avoiding WWE and Caristico would already be in if it wasn't for his WWE run
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Oct 9, 2020 16:42
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MassRafTer posted:Karl Stern is great for knowing dates when matches happened but in terms of rating wrestlers... I mean until recently he was pushing Sgt Slaughter for the Hall basing it on the logic that it is a Hall of FAME and he was very famous, and then reversed course when it turned out Sarge wasn't a real troop. i love karl stern but he said he would never vote for volk han because he's not a real wrestler
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Oct 9, 2020 19:54
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Smoking Crow posted:i love karl stern but he said he would never vote for volk han because he's not a real wrestler I never thought he could top the Slaughter take but this is why he's the National Treasure.
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Oct 9, 2020 23:12
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Oct 16, 2020 03:56
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