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Oct 22, 2020 21:15
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| # ¿ Apr 25, 2024 16:25 |
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The Kalmar Union agrees with the delegates from New Afrika, further colonization efforts should be de-prioritized until the Lunar colonies are further established with at least it's own proper starport and supporting industry. A proper survey of Luna is also necessary to determine the extent of mining operations that need to be established. This establishment of a proper gateway will only aid in our further operations in interplanetary space.
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Oct 23, 2020 11:02
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While the Kalmar Union shares the Lower Georgia United Workers' Front's concern about the nuclear fallout plaguing many areas of the world, we feel focusing on a technological solution would not be appropriate at this point in time. Qualified scientists and intact research complexes are in relatively short supply, and from the briefs given by the lead scientists we do not believe an effective means of mitigating radioactive fallout would be found in time to make much of a difference to a great number of comrades. What we do have in ample supply is manpower. We suggest filling the academy to capacity to train up a corps of engineers and logistics experts, to both provide rapid response humanitarian aid and to assist local reconstruction efforts in building clean shelters and vital infrastructure where most needed.
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Oct 23, 2020 17:36
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Mister Bates what's the feasibility currently of building enough infantry to arrest the decline of Political Stability? If Logistics and (eventually) Construction units don't count towards this, what about fluffing it as a whole bunch of the cheapest type of infantry?
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Oct 23, 2020 21:45
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Ah, so only armed units can affect Stability? Disappointing, but I suppose we can fluff the lightly armed units as primarily engineers and truck drivers with a small armed guard for protection. Completely nullifying the decline is one thing, but building additional units will slow the decline appropriately (i.e. if we build 100 points of policing stability declines 10% slower)? If so, and if the upkeep costs won't skyrocket I see no reason not to keep the Academy busy churning out Humanitarian Assistance troops unless there is some other unit type we have actual need of.
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Oct 23, 2020 22:29
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Foxfire_ posted:In terms of fluff, social services would be better than a police force. Resettle people out of contaminated exclusion zones instead of sending troops in. Oh I agree, hence my focus on Logistics and eventually Construction units, which I figure is the closest we'd get mechanically to that kind of support. In any case, for now this is just a "Let's not let the Academy stand idle when every unit helps." suggestion, as I believe constructing new Academies are not a priority right now.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:48
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Some questions to Mister Bates (and other knowledgeable comrades) before making a deliberation: If we research and outfit a Construction Unit and transport it to Luna, would it help build up local infrastructure and industry, and if so by approximately how much? Would they need the environment research as well in order to be able to operate on Luna (and eventually Mars)? Supply. Using our current technology as a basis, if we created a survey ship how long would it be able to operate, both time and distance wise? Is it purely a matter of fuel, or is there a materials upkeep as well? Do we have the technology to create supply ships, and if not what are we missing?
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Oct 24, 2020 03:28
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The Kalmar Union agrees with the need for survey ships but recommend we limit them initially both in number and operational area, which is to say not beyond Mars. We suggest this limit remain until such time as the research, prototyping and construction of one or more dedicated support ships, providing refueling, maintenance and if necessary rescue services to the survey ships and eventually other ships operating in the outer solar system. We additionally propose a scientific focus towards miniaturizing and mobilizing TNE construction equipment, and the eventual deployment of these mobile units to both assist in the conversion process on earth and to help bootstrap the fledling lunar colonies towards self-reliance. On that note, we feel it too early for full independence for the lunar colonies. A gradual increase in self-governance should be undertaken, both to give the colonies time to stabilize and grow as self-reliant as possible, with concrete measurable goals for when they have fulfilled these criteria and the full support of the Ministry as well as a concrete timetable for these improvements should be decided upon in common between the lunar colonies and Earth. quote:1) No more than 2-3 survey ships to begin with, should focus on the inner solar system for now.
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Oct 24, 2020 04:27
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Foxfire_ posted:They're self sustaining already in terms of things like food, water, power, consumer goods etc. They don't have heavy industry, but don't need supply flights to live. The Luna's 2500 ton cargo capacity wouldn't be enough to support a million+ people anyway, even with short travel times. Weird that they're self-sustaining, but ok. Presumably they wouldn't be able to actually grow without support from Earth? Does Luna even create anything at the moment, presumably aside from Wealth from its citizens? Foxfire_ posted:A survey ship can be made safe enough to justify risking a crew of 50 or so volunteers. Remember, we know there are advanced, militarized aliens out there somewhere and need to be ready in case they come back. Волков бояться -- дров не иметь! They might not be hostile towards us? Maybe? Hope springs eternal? In any case, without a space navy to talk of it's too early to worry about that, I think getting the infrastructure in place now to support and facilitate future exploration and eventual colonization should have a high priority.
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Oct 24, 2020 05:48
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Mister Bates posted:At the moment the only goods Luna creates, not counting the 15% of the population working in agriculture or operating critical life support infrastructure, are 2.4 Infrastructure per year, which is enough to increase its population capacity by 12,000 or so per year. This means that the slight overcrowding Luna is currently experiencing will eventually resolve itself, as local production increases the life support capacity just enough to make up for the new births, but that also means it'll take current local production 100 years to bring the pop cap up to two million. Huh, so this 'innate' Infrastructure growth doesn't require any mineral resources? Or is it assumed to be done with 'mundane' metals and resources that are currently being mined and processed, but not relevant enough to the overall efforts to be noted on the status screen (it only shows the TNE resources since they're the real bottleneck)?
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Oct 24, 2020 06:56
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The Kalmar Union agrees with their New Afrika comrades that while some day we may be forced to turn our energies back to war, that time is not now. We will go even further and suggest that the following be made into a fundamental principle of MOSA, Comintern, and hopefully the human race as a whole, that come what may, humanity will not fire the first shot. Peace should always be our first and strongest instinct, so that we may ever avoid such bloodshed and horror as we are still recovering from.
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Oct 24, 2020 07:09
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Agreed, that was a nice little story. --- When it comes to putting boots on the ground on the moon, just sending troops feels a bit like occupying the place just as they're starting to talk of independence, not a good look. I propse we collaborate with the councils of Lunagrad to establish a joint training operation on the moon, to give some of our troops low-gravity and spacesuit experience. If we happen to bring an excess of equipment and materials to set up offices and training sites, well these things happen and I'm sure the locals would put them to good use. And while these men are on the moon training alongside the lunar peacekeepers it'd be only comradely to lend a hand if situations arise where we could do good.
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Oct 24, 2020 22:56
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Mister Bates posted:Yeah it would honestly be faster to transport a ground training facility and the appropriate minerals to the Moon and then raise troops locally. Sure, that sounds good, sending a facility with the materials and teachers necessary to train peacekeepers with the understanding that part of their job is testing what works and what doesn't for extraterrestial infantry operations, information I'm sure our scientists will find useful when they one day will have to work out the equipment and training necessary for our peacekeepers to operate unburdened on other planets.
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Oct 25, 2020 02:50
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Some sort of "Exemplary Service" medal should be implemented, say a simple 10-pointer rewarded repeatedly every ten years?
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Oct 25, 2020 07:41
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The Kalmar Union votes as follows: On the matter of the status of Lunagrad: BACD On the matter of the terrorist cell Gladio: BCAD On the matter of Survey Ship Design: BA On the matter of Survey Priority: BCA On resolution S-17: Yes On resolution F-18: No, population number alone shouldn't be the sole requirement. If the resolution fails we recommend re-submitting with additional requirements. On resolution F-19: Yes On resolution JR-20: Yes On resolution A-21: Yes On resolution S-22: No, there are not sufficient technological progress or additional usecase for a new class of transport. If the resolution fails we recommend re-submitting after further technologial breakthroughs. On resolution Y-23: Yes Antilles fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Oct 26, 2020 |
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Oct 26, 2020 11:18
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Mister Bates, a question/clarification: Just like the Terraforming research apparently can be used to mitigate the environmental damage from nuclear fallout, can we assume the Genome Sequence Research would do something similar? Maybe unlocking new cures/treatments for cancer/radiation poisoning?
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Oct 26, 2020 14:01
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Comrades, while this decision might set a precedent it is hardly an insurmountable one. I'm certain other members are already planning on raising this issue during the next deliberations, the Kalmar Union will certainly submit our own suggestion for a framework for future settlements for the next session.
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Oct 27, 2020 19:44
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Alright, lots of good stuff happening. I was a bit surprised that my "no first shot" suggestion got interpreted to also include "no warships" since that wasn't my intent, but doing a space-coastguard model rather than a full navy is fine by me so no complaints there. For whoever it was that asked how it would be upheld, I imagine it'd be drilled into all officers trained for warships, and upon reviewing logs from combat encounters if it was determined we shot first it'd cause an immediate military tribunal. I can imagine circumstances where it would be necessary to shoot first in order to save civillian lives or something (f.ex. from a pirate attack, are there/will there be space pirates?) so it's not automatically a warcrime, but unless no one in the admiralty and civilian oversight comittee could find fault with the captain's actions it would be something like an immediate honorable discharge with the offer to take up a teaching position or something.
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Oct 28, 2020 07:28
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Nah, was a bit surprised but as mentioned as long as we maintain some kind of fighting force it's sufficiently close to my intentions that it's fine. In any case, here, have some medal suggestions (open to revisions on the text, I'm no author): Exemplary Service Medal, 10 years Awarded for exemplary service to ComIntern over a 10 year period. Auto-awarded to all after 10 years, 10 points.  Exemplary Service Medal, 20 years Awarded for exemplary service to ComIntern over a 20 year period. Auto-awarded to all after 20 years, 25 points.  Exemplary Service Medal, 30 years Awarded for exemplary service to ComIntern over a 30 year period. Auto-awarded to all after 30 years, 50 points.  Exceptional Service Medal Awarded for exceptional service to ComIntern. Generic "good job" medal awarded by vote, 100 points.
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Oct 28, 2020 08:10
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I believe we sort of have, with humanitarian missions and such, we just haven't sent in troops and gone "you all belong to the comintern now" (possibly aside from spots that still see active combat, like with the contras)?
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Oct 28, 2020 14:42
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Nothing wrong with making an Enterprise either, just the biggest and meanest ship possible with a survey module or something jammed in there.
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Oct 28, 2020 20:50
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Foxfire_ posted:Ships like that mostly don't work because of how Aurora does fuel. You can only have one kind of engine on a ship and get no efficiency bonus for going at less than max speed, so anything with a military power engine will guzzle fuel even when its cruising. Warship engines will have orders of magnitude better power:weight ratios and orders of magnitude worse fuel:power ratios than the sort of things you put on survey ships. I dunno anything about shipbuilding in this game, I just figured if we're stuck with warships 1/3 to 1/4 max size it would probably be a good tradeoff to stick a survey module in there to be able to build a max size "war"ship?
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Oct 28, 2020 22:06
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Is there something Earth can do to stop the growing overcrowing penalty on Lunagrad? If Infrastructure is the culprit can you build and ship it, like you did the facility?
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Oct 29, 2020 11:10
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I'm guessing industries have pop minimums like the training centre, which alone technically requires more pop than the moon currently has. It looks like plonking an industrial centre down asap might not be the best play...
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Oct 29, 2020 13:47
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Mister Bates posted:If there's a consensus on this, or there's only one submission, I'll skip the vote to save time, adopt the first designs posted, and keep things moving It seems like the base designs would be the same, and any disagreements would be quibbling over specific numbers, so I'm fine with going for the first sensible design suggestion. We can always iterate with a mk. 2 later.
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Oct 29, 2020 13:55
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How's our industrial upgrade going? Is the demand for our aid program still outstripping what we can supply?
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Oct 31, 2020 08:51
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How fast do colonies usually grow, and how large can they generally get? I get the impression Lunagrad ballooned quickly and unexpectedly, will other colonies grow like that (and to that size), subject to travel time of the transports?
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Nov 2, 2020 11:05
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My previous question is basically an attempt to figure out the appropriate numbers for X and Y for this policy proposal: 1. Any outpost or colony where 50% or more of the population are MOSA personnel or working in MOSA-run facilities/infrastructure falls directly under the jurisdiction of MOSA, with the civilian population ultimately subject to the senior MOSA officer but having local self-governance under a civilian administration for day-to-day issues. 2. Any outpost or colony without significant MOSA presence but with a population of less than X, or Y + at least 1 facility will have significant autonomy and local self-governance but still ultimately subject to comintern administration. 3. Any colony with a population of more than X, or Y + at least 1 facility, will be considered fully independent and is encouraged to take their seat in the comintern council. 4. This policy shall be revisited after 20 years, or if members feel there has been significant societal or scientific progress before hand a motion to revisit this policy can be made at any time. From watching Lunagrad's colonization I'm tempted to peg X and Y at 2 and 1 million population, but I dunno if that'd be way too high for future colonies.
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Nov 2, 2020 14:56
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Pirate Radar posted:I don't know the actual numbers behind it but colonies will grow to the size their infrastructure permits, and they'll produce some of their own infrastructure (also, spoiler for later but once we have more civilian shipping the companies will automatically move privately created infrastructure around if we don't give them something else to do). So we can affect the rate at which the colony grows. As for "how large" that depends on the body. Checking it on my game right now Luna's maximum population is 890 million. Ah gently caress it then, I'll go with the numbers my gut-feeling gave me, since there's a baked in 'review after 15 years' clause. Comrades, as the recent discussions about Lunagrad’s status and autonomy have shown, we must create guidelines and set expectations for future colonies. After all, we will likely see in our lifetimes a world where an enterprising family may acquire the necessary infrastructure and charter a transport to set up a homestead on an asteroid, and while all of humanity should have that freedom, declaring themselves a polity should not automatically follow. We propose the following terms: 1. Any outpost or colony where 50% or more of the population are MOSA personnel or working in MOSA-run facilities/infrastructure falls directly under the jurisdiction of MOSA, with the civilian population ultimately subject to the senior MOSA officer but having local self-governance under a civilian administration for day-to-day issues. 2. Any outpost or colony without significant MOSA presence but with a population of less than 2 million, or 1 million + at least 1 facility will have significant autonomy and local self-governance but still ultimately subject to comintern administration. 3. Any colony with a population of more than 2 million, or 1 million + at least 1 facility, will be considered fully independent and is encouraged to take their seat in the comintern council. 4. This policy shall be revisited after 15 years, or immediately if a simple majority of members feel a significant technological or societal advance has occured. We would also like to suggest an amendment to Y-23 as we share the concerns many comrades brought up during last year's deliberations, but we do see the need for a common tongue on MOSA ships and facilities so and propose the following: The scope of the project is limited to creating an operational language for all MOSA personell to facilitate communication and cohesion. Only MOSA personell are required to learn this language, though we will strongly encourage other spacefaring polities to adopt the language as a lingua franca of space, and make educational materiel available throughout ComIntern territory for civilians interested in learning it.
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Nov 2, 2020 19:59
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The Kalmar Union votes as follows: Prefixes: E, D, F, C, A, B, G Research: D, B, C, A Socialist Aid Program: A, B, C I-24, Repeal the No First Strike Doctrine: No, since the objection seems to be primarily against the limit on warships (which we can't even build yet...) but this would also take away the civilian focus just a year after adopting it, which we feel is a bad look. Would recommend 1st waiting for the tech to mature, then 2nd to push through specific allowances/loopholes for the kinds of ships you feel are needed. A-25, Service Medals: Yes K-26, Adoption of a Revolutionary Rank Structure: Yes F-27, Drunken Industrial Bear: Yes F-28, Research Optimization Cleanup: Yes F-29, A Ten-Year Service Medal: No L-30, Low-Gravity Infrastructure: Yes I-31, Five-Year Plans: No, the situation is currently too volatile, we need to be able to respond to shifting priorities as soon as they crop up H-32, The Mars Program: Yes, securing adequate TNE stocks is of vital importance N-33, the TNE Reuse, Reduce, and Recycling Act: Yes N-34, the Public Broadcasting Service: Yes S-35, FESTER: Yes A-36, Space Autonomy Model: Yes A-37, A Common Language for Space: Yes
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Nov 3, 2020 09:24
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While not as quick to cast aspersions on the allegiances of our colleagues, the Kalmar Union agrees on the importance on providing at least the basic needs of every comrade in the ComIntern, with enough to spare for any who wishes to join our grand endeavour. If we cannot provide at least this much, can we truly say we are better than the capitalists, liberals and fascists of the world?
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Nov 5, 2020 16:26
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While the Kalmar Union agrees the findings of the Lunar survey is good news, we disagree that we should rush into mining operations for now. As we understand it the specific minerals are not currently in high demand, and besides does not the population of Luna have their hands full with their current facilities and infrastructure? Additional infrastructure and immigrants to Lunagrad should not be neglected, of course, but there is much to do and a limited capacity to do them with, a long-term plan with slow and steady growth to be ready by the time we have need for additional minerals of that type would be better than an immediate gold rush to Lunagrad.
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Nov 7, 2020 18:24
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Serf posted:well, this is pretty huge. can we get down there and take a look at them? The Kalmar Union seconds this motion!
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Nov 7, 2020 23:25
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64bitrobot posted:Also next legislative session we should probably come up with procedures for how to deal with future situations like this. You know, because the more paperwork, the better. Presumably in the future we will have xenoarchology... units? Scanners? On standby, so future situations would be "Cool, send in the experts."
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Nov 7, 2020 23:39
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The post specifically mentions a low orbit fly-over, which I assume is what's being voted on?
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Nov 8, 2020 01:54
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Indeed, this Gladios problem seems to be a bigger and deeper issue than previously feared. We should look to creating a special task force to deal with them, perhaps with counter-intelligence training since they seem to be heavily into cloak and dagger work. Maybe even set aside lab time to upgrade the intelligence gathering ability of the satelites?
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Nov 9, 2020 03:22
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Mister Bates, a question to our intelligence and/or diplomatic corps representatives: Would using certain basic, low-level facts from this report help either in negotiations with these non-aligned militant groups or help prevent them from being co-opted/used by Gladio operatives? We should assume that anything used in this manner would eventually get back to Gladio, so we' be limited to things we've plausibly already gathered, like the name, their general purpose and their allegiance to old, fallen states.
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Nov 9, 2020 07:17
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Pacho posted:Since Venus has some TNEs I'll be proposing the Venera Initiative again next commintern session, better worded as not to conflict with other tech initiatives. I'm also thinking about proposing the development and construction of mining ships to start farming those asteroids, unless that's already in the pipeline Yeah, looks like Orbital Mining Module is already being researched, so it looks like it's in progress. Also Mister Bates, a gameplay question: what's the point of Geosurvey Equipment? Is a ground survey different from doing the survey from space?
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Nov 9, 2020 07:38
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Mister Bates posted:India has an active (Comintern-aligned) communist insurgency and two sizable communist parliamentary parties and is extremely unstable internally. A full-on intervention there has been discussed, but the country is so huge that doing so right now would involve a large conventional war followed by probably many years of occupation, which is not a trigger anyone has been willing to pull yet. They have a developing economy and are a net exporter of food. Let's see... what's the situation for the common citizen in India these days? Would it help stabilize them if we give them a sweetheart deal on prefab buildings and basic infrastructure (basically earmarking part of Socialist Aid for India for a while) in exchange for their surplus food (which is immediately folded in to the Socialist Aid program and shipped around the world to help combat starvation and malnutrition), making sure to credit the deal to their communist parties to hopefully give them a boost? Not too much we can do about Japan, maybe make a Hawaii-like deal for manufacture/trade/research and see where it goes? The League, hmm... maybe a good carrot for convincing the rest to join ComIntern would be an offer to help them specialize in refining Solonium into fuel? It wouldn't be quite the same as oil since they can't monopolize it or profit from it, but giving them a regional project to lead the way in transitioning from oil to Solonium fuel might be a good enough motivation to overcome that? Like a promise to build the first fuel refinery in their territory and admitting promising scientists to our academy for further specialization? Israel... not touching that with a ten-foot pole. Maybe eventually we can get a variant of the Oslo Accords up and running to hopefully stabilize things, but right now there are bigger fires to fight.
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Nov 10, 2020 01:10
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| # ¿ Apr 25, 2024 16:25 |
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Let's see, since we're currently operating on 5-year targets: Comrades, the Kalmar Union wishes to propose a long-term plan to centralize the administrative functions of ComIntern. With more and more of Earth’s citizens joining the ComIntern cause, the founding of our first colony Lunagrad and the creation of a research outpost on Mars, alongside likely one or more mining outposts in the near future, we fear what may happen if the ComIntern administrative apparatus does not grow and adapt to our changing circumstances. As such we would like to propose research into both an administrative center suitable to oversee the entire planet and however many colonies and outposts we end up establishing in our solar system, as well as a suitable facility to house it. We suggest Paolo Soleri’s concept of an arcology, a large sealed self-sustaining facility not unlike our off-world colony setups. This would also allow us to follow the example set by MOSA’s choice of Ascenscion Island and construct it somewhere sufficiently remote and inhospitable to be considered neutral. Of course, we do not wish to create an ivory tower, away from the plights and concerns of our comrades, so any staff placed there must be rotated out, say every five years, and if any representatives choose to take up an office there they too must spend, say four months every year in their home territory. 1. Research Improved Command & Control. 2. Build a Sector Command facility on Earth (possibly with some amount of Infrastructure that is then deleted to represent it being an arcology?). 3. Change Sector Governor every 5 years. We would also like to propose the following instructions to our diplomatic corps, to see if we can improve relations with currently neutral states: 1.Contact the Indian Communist parties and through them "negotiate" a trade of large number of pre-fab housing and basic infrastructure in exchange for their surplus food. If they agree, the surplus food will then be distributed by the Socialist Aid Program to where it's needed most. 2. Offer the Arabic League if they join ComIntern they'll get the first fuel refinery and resources to train engineers and scientists in this field. While the monopolies and profit-seeking of the old oil industry cannot be repeated, hopefully getting the chance to become our most experienced experts in this field will sweeten the bitter pill. 3. Try to convince Japan to agree to similar levels of cooperation as with Hawaii, opening the door for trade and certain low-level manufacturing/research projects between ComIntern and Japan. However we deal with GLADIO we feel like we should release if not publicly then at least to all relevant parties the basic facts (i.e. not revealing the existence of secret spy satelites) of GLADIO and their mission, to ward off potential infiltration of GLADIO cells into these organizations and if we're lucky the reveal of a common foe will make negotiating with some of these groups easier.
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Nov 11, 2020 00:07
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