Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

All right, we're reopened!

As a reminder, please keep the personal fights out of the thread. We're happy to answer questions you have about Games moderation, respond to your concerns/comments, etc., but we're going to probate people pretty quickly for attacking each other, calling each other freaks/weirdos, or just generally derailing this with slapfights.

Since I sniped this page, I'll quote VG's post from the previous page:

VideoGames posted:

Hello everyone.

I have been catching up with all the posts in this thread and due to being away for the last four days with a mix of work and pleasure I have enough time to try to form my thoughts on all of it and I am going to try and get them out in a coherent way.

Firstly Harrow is doing an amazing job replying to all this and I am sorry not to have been able to properly slot in until now.

I have been a Games mod going on nearly 6 years (December will be the anniversary) and I have seen this place change and grow from where it was to where it is. Back when I started Games was in the top 3 most visited forums and generated tons, and tons, of reports and slap fights and angry posting. It had a reputation of being the miserable place on the forums to talk about video gaming and people saw it as a place where the only reason you would ever post here is to be negative. Liking things was ironic and it was as if people were fearful of being sincere about liking games. This is why Imp Zone exists. I like Imp Zone a lot even if I do not feel funny enough to post regularly. It is a general joke forum about video gaming created during a time where games was its direct opposite.

Mods previous to me (as I have seen 11 games mods come and go alongside me) were actually some of the most probe heavy across all of SA. I think Louisgod might have had one of the highest records for this.

Six years later and Games is STILL in the top three visited forums, sometimes number 1 over C-spam and GBS depending on the time of day. It generates very few reports, it has much friendly tone all over the place, there are more general communities in threads, reports are few and far between and the place still has a bit of leftover reputation as being miserable but I think it is wrong. The gen chat thread is a wonderfully supportive place full of so many posters who genuinely look after each other and welcome people in to talk about stuff. Jokes are made way more across the board and people post all the time in sincere ways about liking stuff. Threads are left to be more self policing and mods generally let discussions work themselves out. We view modding as something that should be for things that really truly impact threads and serious crimes and whatnot. We also view modding as facilitating what the majority wants rather than imposing strict rules on every thread as Games is huge and things will get by. We trust you to pm us, report for us and talk to us about things and whether you believe they go against the 'Games posting spirit'.

If this style of modding is bad, then do not blame Harrow or Nikkolasking, please blame me. I am the one who slowly implemented this style when I was looking after Games and every mod who has joined after me has taken my lead and evolved with it.

I do not think jokes should be probated unless they are slur laden and just purely offensive statements. I let a lot of stuff go because people disagreeing with each other is what gives us a discussion forum. I have always wanted way more positivity in Games from the get go and have worked a lot to be positive and sincere in order to let people feel they could. I genuinely think in the olden days Games did deter people from being joyful about stuff because angry irony was the big thing. I do not think it is that way any more and I am tremendously proud of this forum. It has ups and downs but it has remained one of the most heavily trafficed areas on the site and the amount of bad stuff we have seen has fallen drastically.

I also like that we have varied personalities amongst the regulars. I do not hand out many probes, because again I feel most of the threads I see are self policing enough. People can call stuff out and can argue and discuss. That sort of thing is not what moderators should be for. Now if the argument gets super heated and goes on for pages, then we will absolutely step in and do something, but most are done and dusted and require nothing.

One thing that all us mods here in Games have strived to do, and one thing I make it my biggest priority, is to be available and accountable for any mod decisions I make. I will do my utter best to respond to any query of why I modded in such a way and if I am incredibly wrong I will rectify it as best as I can. I make mistakes. I am only human. Nothing we do here in Games is set in stone and none of our rules are rigid. There is context for absolutely everything and while some posts may possibly 'break the rules' they do not always. This is why I make sure to give my thoughts and feelings.

I like that we have a whole range of varied posters with their styles and I know some can be inflammatory jokers but at the same time I would not want this place to be sanitised too much. Stux can be a big pain and I have probed him in the past for it. The judgement on whether long jokers is enough of a thread derail is something we can discuss here, but I stand on the side of it being an extremely absurdist joke and probing it for six hours rather than timging it or editing it out feels like an overreaction.

Again, I could be wrong but from what I have read up to this point there is no consensus. Stux posts in other thread are usually on topic and despite how they are written they can be 'deciphered' to have truths; like his love for anodyne 2.
Some posters have 'character' and may be a bit larger than life and if they do go on a tear across multiple threads then they do get probed. Perhaps we are too lenient on certain things but I have felt that Games should have a bit of adventure and friction and that it is healthy to have a discussion space where people are opposed in opinion (as long as they are not the heinous kinds of things).

I have rambled a lot and we will open the thread again and all three of us will be around to talk when we can. I have some evening plans but tomorrow night is pretty empty for me and I will do my best to reply while at work too. I am on UK time so my posting is at odds with the general forum timeline.

Once again, thank you so much to everyone for posting and thank you for making Games a great place to be. I truly love this place and am happy that it has remained such a big part of the forums while quietning down so much. You are all wonderful.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

TheScott2K
Oct 26, 2003

I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.
I more or less feel like I said my piece earlier, so I'm not going to bother elaborating or arguing, but I have to say it's pretty disappointing to see my objections, which were echoed by others, reduced to "long jokers" by VG.

Congrats, Stux. Enjoy the endless rap sheet of short, meaningless probations you'll no doubt continue to rack up by ruining whatever thread has your attention on a given day.

Moola
Aug 16, 2006
Something that I don't think anyone has addressed that is concerning is why is it always tall joker?

Why not wide Bane, extremely large Riddler or very tiny Lex Luthor?

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

Welcome back, it's nice to hear from you again! I've heard talk of a lack of support to IKs who attempt to moderate their threads using the tools at their disposal, such as a threadban, in order to keep things from devolving into slapfights and spamming. Is this an indication that the role of an IK is being retooled to be more limited and if so will there be consideration of adding additional IKs to certain high-volume threads to ensure more responsive action? Asking mainly because the go-to advice of "just ignore it until it goes away" is generally not great for any type of responsible living much less responsible moderating.

Also, and this is regarding more what's said in Video Games' post but not necessarily limited to their sole response: the games forum is said to generate relatively few reports but certain prior statements by other members of the moderation staff imply a rather hefty workload when it comes to addressing the report queue. I'd like to know if posters can help by reporting stuff that breaks forum/thread rules more often, or in the event of there being too many reports, how we can best work with the moderation staff in order to maybe triage the worst examples quickly so that you aren't receiving a flood of reports on unaddressed concerns. Anyway, thanks again for letting us know you're trying and providing this space for feedback.

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!
Oven Wrangler
My white noise opinion boils down to this: if repeated 6ers aren't getting the message across then it's a pointless recourse and it's just going to lead to worse stuff. I don't give a poo poo about the stadia thread but what if someone keeps trolling a thread I do actually enjoy reading? Do thread bans come into play or does that just cause even worse issues?

I know this is all very much grey area stuff and down to the mod/admins decision so I guess there is no way to really make a clear rule. And for the record I like Stux, he actually brings up good arguments in QCS in regards to forums moderation and isn't afraid to make his point, which is respectable.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

I should probably open my piece by saying that I agree we should probate thread-disrupting posting faster and for longer periods of time. That's something I've been kind of gun-shy on and it's clear that what's going on now isn't working, so I'm going to take that feedback forward and act on it.

That said, I stand by a lighter touch in moderation. I'm not going to support banning someone, or even probating someone for a month at a time, just because they're annoying sometimes. Whatever you think of Stux, nothing he posts is nearly so bad to rise to that level, and in fact there's a recent post I just probated in the Stadia thread that is much worse than anything Stux has ever posted in that thread. I will be more proactive and harsher on actual thread disruption, but I am always going to come down a lot harder on actually bad posts than on ultimately harmless trolling, no matter how annoying that trolling is.

But as much as we moderators need to be faster on the draw for "this thread has become unusable"-type trolling, I also think sometimes people just need to lighten the gently caress up. I recognize this might be unacceptable coming from a moderator to some of you, but, like a lighter touch moderation style, I stand by it. To tell you the truth, I like Stux. I've never had a problem with him, not before I was a mod and not since then. He's a forums rascal. He knows exactly what he's doing, contributes to threads sometimes and trolls them other times, and happily pays the troll toll when it's time for a time out. He is not hateful. He is not posting bigotry. He sure as hell isn't Guy Mann. Sometimes it's time to just laugh and move on--either because the joke is funny, or because the troll is wasting their time and being a dumbass.

Another way of saying this is that, in my view, a long rap sheet does not equal a poster who is bad for this site. This is Something Awful. Posters like Stux--posters who post just for the joy of making some people laugh and some people get mad at silly words--give this site some spice. Without them, we'd be ResetEra but with even less cultural relevance.

Those of you who've known my posting over the years probably know that I have a habit of getting my feelings hurt too easily and getting into stupid arguments that go for pages on end. Just look at my Tim Rogers posting from just before I got modded, or my WoW posting from last year. But even then, I knew how to recognize when a troll was doing troll things and just kinda sit back and enjoy, or joke around with them a bit. Or recognize when someone who's usually trolling isn't trolling and you can actually chat with them and have a nice time.

So, to boil this down to my actual points: please continue to report posts that you think need action, whether it's because someone is disrupting a thread, or someone posted something really lovely, or someone's breaking tables, or whatever. But also please know that sometimes--not always, but sometimes--the way forward isn't through mod action, but through laughing it off and moving on.

I guess I'm less nice than VG, I dunno.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

FAUXTON posted:

Welcome back, it's nice to hear from you again! I've heard talk of a lack of support to IKs who attempt to moderate their threads using the tools at their disposal, such as a threadban, in order to keep things from devolving into slapfights and spamming. Is this an indication that the role of an IK is being retooled to be more limited and if so will there be consideration of adding additional IKs to certain high-volume threads to ensure more responsive action? Asking mainly because the go-to advice of "just ignore it until it goes away" is generally not great for any type of responsible living much less responsible moderating.

I think this might be a more admin question than a mod question. I'd guess admins might check in on this thread once in a while but I can see if someone can come help answer it. Most of the threads in Games with thread IKs never really reach that point anyway, though I know Blizzwatch did. I was guilty of letting some reports from Blizzwatch slide sometimes because, to quote myself, "Kith can handle it," but it's clear that was a mistake and caused a lot of problems for that thread, so I apologize for my lax moderation there.

FAUXTON posted:

Also, and this is regarding more what's said in Video Games' post but not necessarily limited to their sole response: the games forum is said to generate relatively few reports but certain prior statements by other members of the moderation staff imply a rather hefty workload when it comes to addressing the report queue. I'd like to know if posters can help by reporting stuff that breaks forum/thread rules more often, or in the event of there being too many reports, how we can best work with the moderation staff in order to maybe triage the worst examples quickly so that you aren't receiving a flood of reports on unaddressed concerns. Anyway, thanks again for letting us know you're trying and providing this space for feedback.

I can say that Games usually doesn't generate that many reports. There are occasional flare-ups, but it's usually really manageable. What makes me feel bad is when one of those flare-ups happens at a time when all three of us are doing other things and we miss it while we can still put a stop to it. Another mod might help with that, depending on when their usual forums-using time is.

From my perspective, people are usually using reports appropriately here in Games. I'd rather have people sometimes report posts that don't require action than have them not report posts that do, y'know?

I do know other forums, especially politics forums, generate piles and piles of reports, but I believe they're both adding several new mods recently so hopefully that will help with those teams' workloads.

Crespolini
Mar 9, 2014

Vintersorg posted:

loving getting sealioned. :lol:

"Oh take their advice - whats your problem. So nice. Why are you so mad."

For those who don't know:


Trolls use it all the time to rile people up and be like - oh, why are you so mad...



Why do people keep posting this comic about a woman who is transparently a bigot

VideoGames
Aug 18, 2003

FAUXTON posted:

Also, and this is regarding more what's said in Video Games' post but not necessarily limited to their sole response: the games forum is said to generate relatively few reports but certain prior statements by other members of the moderation staff imply a rather hefty workload when it comes to addressing the report queue.

I suppose what I should have said was relative to the old days. We roughly get the same number of reports in a week and a bit that would have been maybe one day back in the olden times and that is with a flareup happening not just regular day stuff. In fact the level of reports that D&D gets is what Games used to have to contend with.

I love reports. Reports help us because Games is the most active forum - maybe not always in number of users, but our threads active throughout one day will reach page 6/7 most of the time. 6/7 pages of threads is a lot for a few people to look through and we do try.

So reports are great. If reports are not something you wish to do, then this thread or even PMs are something we all try to respond to. SA and Modding is definitely something contentious currently and we are definitely trying to get it right over here. We want to be available for things and we do want to discuss as well. Even if there are disagreements, I at least want there to be understanding.

I think we are looking for more mods too or at least, more thread specific IKs when they are threads that suffer from flareups.

All I can say is please, more reports :) We are used to an even higher volume than we get now!

Crespolini posted:

Why do people keep posting this comic about a woman who is transparently a bigot

I am not sure.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

a thread that serves no purpose but to empty quote reams of reddit posts deserves to be disrupted, at full force, and constantly.mock threads should be closed once the well has dried up, which is generally very quickly. the only thing thats happened from having threads like that stumble on indefinitely has been creating very strange threads, many of which in the past have crossed the line and this one devolving into white noise offsite quoting is def on thath path. games isnt about insane hate anymore and when threads about making fun of something stop being funny they should be closed.

people like fauxton absolutely dont care about games or anything theyre saying, and are seeminglyl blissfully unaware thaht the way they are acting is exact ly why mods and iks burn out and stop. if they had ever talked to anyone prior to deciding they suddenly care when a thread they like simply got moved they would know this. when multiple ex mods and iks pointed it out earlier, the people who suddenly apparently care about games ignored it, mostly because theyre completely unaware of who has been a mod, presumably because they actually had never had any issues w moderation here and are grudge posting.

the lengths some people went to earlier in the thrread to try and create some moral cause, including relitigating someone using the r word in cccc only to show no interest in actually persuing it, prefering to use it as a weapon in an unrelated matter, or labelling someone posting pictures of the joker as problematic, is far more offensive than aynthing ive ever said or even the things they were complaining about. if they had any sembelence of a spine or actual morals they would be so sufficiently ashamed by their behavior that they would drop the subject and i reserve the right to destroy them on site in this thread.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

also if people are so upset witht he concept of jokes and fun may i suggest resetera or similar forums which arent right wing holes but also ban jokes. you will be happier there im sure.

ONE YEAR LATER posted:

My white noise opinion boils down to this: if repeated 6ers aren't getting the message across then it's a pointless recourse and it's just going to lead to worse stuff. I don't give a poo poo about the stadia thread but what if someone keeps trolling a thread I do actually enjoy reading? Do thread bans come into play or does that just cause even worse issues?

I know this is all very much grey area stuff and down to the mod/admins decision so I guess there is no way to really make a clear rule. And for the record I like Stux, he actually brings up good arguments in QCS in regards to forums moderation and isn't afraid to make his point, which is respectable.

im pretty sure if i was doing it to an actual normal thread i would be punted into the stratosphere very quickly

Stux fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Sep 15, 2021

Boba Pearl
Dec 27, 2019

by Athanatos
I think if you have a grudge with one poster, and you think that person is consistently making GBS threads up your thread, just use the ignore function? Or use uBlock to hellban them from your browser or w/e? Like at some point you have to stop saying "Oh this person shits up the thread," and realize that you don't have to see their posts if you don't want too.

TheScott2K
Oct 26, 2003

I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.
E: gently caress it, why bother

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

Harrow posted:

I think this might be a more admin question than a mod question. I'd guess admins might check in on this thread once in a while but I can see if someone can come help answer it.

I can say that Games usually doesn't generate that many reports. There are occasional flare-ups, but it's usually really manageable. What makes me feel bad is when one of those flare-ups happens at a time when all three of us are doing other things and we miss it while we can still put a stop to it. Another mod might help with that, depending on when their usual forums-using time is.

From my perspective, people are usually using reports appropriately here in Games. I'd rather have people sometimes report posts that don't require action than have them not report posts that do, y'know?

I do know other forums, especially politics forums, generate piles and piles of reports, but I believe they're both adding several new mods recently so hopefully that will help with those teams' workloads.

A) appreciate it, thanks for sending it up the chain so to speak.

B) that makes a little more sense, that basically the moderation staff are not consistently overworked but sometimes aren't able to fully cover big spikes in activity, which isn't necessarily the fault of any one or several mods but should probably be addressed. However, I think appropriately empowering and trusting the IKs to mitigate those spikes might help, usually an IK is someone regularly posting in and reading a given thread, sometimes they're the OP of the thread and have the best idea of what it's intended to be - be that expanding the IK powers to be able to probate for up to 24 hours rather than the current 6, or maybe delegating certain other actions to be held more local to the forum, as each layer of moderation is inherently more thinly spread and less able to rapidly address something which is spiraling beyond the ability of IKs or moderators to appropriately address. I'd agree that usually a great way of putting the brakes on situations where people continually touch the doodoo is just locking a thread for a period of time so everyone can cool off and chill out, but my view of doing so is that it's sort of an obtuse instrument of collective punishment, saying "because some of you cannot control yourselves, all of you are to pay." Granted, not being able to post for a day or two is not exactly the end of the world (in fact taking a day or two off is often refreshing and relaxing) but if that's a view shared by moderation staff, why not allow longer probations from IKs or more localized powers (banning in certain circumstances for example) within the moderation staff rather than letting it wait for approval.

That said, I appreciate your responses and hope to keep the good rapport going.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Stux posted:

im pretty sure if i was doing it to an actual normal thread i would be punted into the stratosphere very quickly

Moola
Aug 16, 2006

Boba Pearl posted:

I think if you have a grudge with one poster, and you think that person is consistently making GBS threads up your thread, just use the ignore function? Or use uBlock to hellban them from your browser or w/e? Like at some point you have to stop saying "Oh this person shits up the thread," and realize that you don't have to see their posts if you don't want too.

this is good advice btw

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

FAUXTON posted:

A) appreciate it, thanks for sending it up the chain so to speak.

B) that makes a little more sense, that basically the moderation staff are not consistently overworked but sometimes aren't able to fully cover big spikes in activity, which isn't necessarily the fault of any one or several mods but should probably be addressed. However, I think appropriately empowering and trusting the IKs to mitigate those spikes might help, usually an IK is someone regularly posting in and reading a given thread, sometimes they're the OP of the thread and have the best idea of what it's intended to be - be that expanding the IK powers to be able to probate for up to 24 hours rather than the current 6, or maybe delegating certain other actions to be held more local to the forum, as each layer of moderation is inherently more thinly spread and less able to rapidly address something which is spiraling beyond the ability of IKs or moderators to appropriately address. I'd agree that usually a great way of putting the brakes on situations where people continually touch the doodoo is just locking a thread for a period of time so everyone can cool off and chill out, but my view of doing so is that it's sort of an obtuse instrument of collective punishment, saying "because some of you cannot control yourselves, all of you are to pay." Granted, not being able to post for a day or two is not exactly the end of the world (in fact taking a day or two off is often refreshing and relaxing) but if that's a view shared by moderation staff, why not allow longer probations from IKs or more localized powers (banning in certain circumstances for example) within the moderation staff rather than letting it wait for approval.

That said, I appreciate your responses and hope to keep the good rapport going.

Speaking just for myself, I am happy to see IKs a bit more empowered than they are. I trust the Games IKs quite a bit and I don't really mind if they can run longer probations, so I can pass this feedback along to the admins. My guess is that they won't get up to the full 24 hours if only because that's also as far as moderators can go without admin approval, but if a Games IK wants to kick someone out of their thread for 12 hours at a time I don't mind that at all.

That might also be an easier sell for admins once the thread-specific IK system that Kith was a test-user for is fully rolled out. Right now, IKs usually have buttons for their whole forum, even if they're thread IKs, they just agree not to use their buttons outside their thread. If a thread IK is actually thread-specific, it might be more likely that they can have longer probations auto-approved within their threads.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

FAUXTON posted:

A) appreciate it, thanks for sending it up the chain so to speak.

B) that makes a little more sense, that basically the moderation staff are not consistently overworked but sometimes aren't able to fully cover big spikes in activity, which isn't necessarily the fault of any one or several mods but should probably be addressed. However, I think appropriately empowering and trusting the IKs to mitigate those spikes might help, usually an IK is someone regularly posting in and reading a given thread, sometimes they're the OP of the thread and have the best idea of what it's intended to be - be that expanding the IK powers to be able to probate for up to 24 hours rather than the current 6, or maybe delegating certain other actions to be held more local to the forum, as each layer of moderation is inherently more thinly spread and less able to rapidly address something which is spiraling beyond the ability of IKs or moderators to appropriately address. I'd agree that usually a great way of putting the brakes on situations where people continually touch the doodoo is just locking a thread for a period of time so everyone can cool off and chill out, but my view of doing so is that it's sort of an obtuse instrument of collective punishment, saying "because some of you cannot control yourselves, all of you are to pay." Granted, not being able to post for a day or two is not exactly the end of the world (in fact taking a day or two off is often refreshing and relaxing) but if that's a view shared by moderation staff, why not allow longer probations from IKs or more localized powers (banning in certain circumstances for example) within the moderation staff rather than letting it wait for approval.

That said, I appreciate your responses and hope to keep the good rapport going.

we have iks in other threads. they generally dont have to do anything because most of games is normal. this crisis in moderation is entirely within your head. not posting in a thread anymore once its run its course isnt some horrific punishment or something that needs to be worked around to allow people to keep posting in it. post about something else. move on.

Boba Pearl
Dec 27, 2019

by Athanatos
Like if the Stadia thread had Stux on ignore, and he posted long joker, no-one would notice? I don't think it's on Stux that a handful of goons freaked out about long joker and his constant shittery, the de-rails about a bad posters are so so much worse then whatever the bad poster posted 9/10 times, because if they were doing anything more then trolling the moderation staff would handle it. Like as long as you're not like "Kill all [X]" or something like that, what is the harm of ArfJason posting the troll face and calling your thread aids? Like it's distasteful, but what makes it funny is the 15 people going "OH MY GOD, HE SAID IT WAS AIDS!!!!" As if that wasn't the exact reaction he was going for? Not only that, he doesn't even say the really hosed up poo poo that some internet trolls do. Like maybe you guys don't realize how good SA is about moderation compared to the internet at large? What communities are you a part of where they actively weed out stuff like this?

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

Take up your rifles
My two cents are that I don't really like people who get their kicks out of ruining others fun, which is what trolling is, and I wish we didn't tolerate it with slaps on the wrist. When people barge into threads to antagonise the posters there, it sucks, and I don't think we should tolerate it.

On the other hand, trawling reddit to to find people with stupid takes on Stadia or Star Citizen or whatever so you can bring them back to a thread to mock them is pretty sad behaviour and it ultimately comes from the same mean-spirited place. There's a difference between mocking Stadia and Google on one hand, and mocking regular people on the other, and if mock threads can't exist without devolving into the latter I don't think we should have them. Yes this is Something Awful, but most of us are ten to twenty years older--or more--than we were when we joined and I think we can be expected to be better people than that.

Games as a forum is generally a pretty positive place and I want it to stay that way.

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


Stux can certainly be a bad poster sometimes (and i'm certainly not great either) but good lord, his posting in the stadia has been like the mildest form of trolling ever and i really don't understand how people lose their minds over it

Srice
Sep 11, 2011

Reveilled posted:

My two cents are that I don't really like people who get their kicks out of ruining others fun, which is what trolling is, and I wish we didn't tolerate it with slaps on the wrist. When people barge into threads to antagonise the posters there, it sucks, and I don't think we should tolerate it.

On the other hand, trawling reddit to to find people with stupid takes on Stadia or Star Citizen or whatever so you can bring them back to a thread to mock them is pretty sad behaviour and it ultimately comes from the same mean-spirited place. There's a difference between mocking Stadia and Google on one hand, and mocking regular people on the other, and if mock threads can't exist without devolving into the latter I don't think we should have them. Yes this is Something Awful, but most of us are ten to twenty years older--or more--than we were when we joined and I think we can be expected to be better people than that.

Games as a forum is generally a pretty positive place and I want it to stay that way.

Pretty much all enduring mock threads reach a point where the most prominent posters in the threads become (or perhaps reveal themselves as?) deranged freaks that are outright psychotic in their quest to be the biggest hater of whatever thing they're mocking, instead of having a chuckle and moving on.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Srice posted:

Pretty much all enduring mock threads reach a point where the most prominent posters in the threads become (or perhaps reveal themselves as?) deranged freaks that are outright psychotic in their quest to be the biggest hater of whatever thing they're mocking, instead of having a chuckle and moving on.

Harrow posted:

As a reminder, please keep the personal fights out of the thread. We're happy to answer questions you have about Games moderation, respond to your concerns/comments, etc., but we're going to probate people pretty quickly for attacking each other, calling each other freaks/weirdos, or just generally derailing this with slapfights.

Just in case anyone didn't see it at the top of the page.

Asema
Oct 2, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Harrow posted:

Just in case anyone didn't see it at the top of the page.

Here's some feedback Harrow:

You need to be quicker to give out a 6er for those that don't listen to the posted warnings and continue to try to get a last word in. They see your warning and they ignore it because there's no bite to your bark and it'll just go back and forth of who can get the last word in because Goons think if they do that really funny post it'll sway the entire discussion to their side. It won't, it detracts from the thread, and it just delays actual discussion.

For example: The last week where you said "Don't do this" and then 3 pages of exactly doing that happened.

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

Harrow posted:

Speaking just for myself, I am happy to see IKs a bit more empowered than they are. I trust the Games IKs quite a bit and I don't really mind if they can run longer probations, so I can pass this feedback along to the admins. My guess is that they won't get up to the full 24 hours if only because that's also as far as moderators can go without admin approval, but if a Games IK wants to kick someone out of their thread for 12 hours at a time I don't mind that at all.

That might also be an easier sell for admins once the thread-specific IK system that Kith was a test-user for is fully rolled out. Right now, IKs usually have buttons for their whole forum, even if they're thread IKs, they just agree not to use their buttons outside their thread. If a thread IK is actually thread-specific, it might be more likely that they can have longer probations auto-approved within their threads.

Heck, I'm glad to see you agreeing on that point (empowered IKs), hopefully it's something that moves in the right direction going forward even if it's pushing the 6er to a 12-hour rather than the full 24, but that's where I was thinking a more localized set of authorities might help - if moderators are limited only to 24 hours without further approval, why not push that to 3 or 7 days, with IKs able to issue, say, 12 hours without approval and then only needing a moderator's approval for 24? Like a less steep gradient of authority where the folks with the bandwidth and closer involvement can be more free to act in the short and medium term and things of a more permanent tack are kept in the hands of admins.

As for IKs being more strictly limited to specific threads, I'm all for it but reiterate that I think it runs into the issue of having a responsiveness gap, though that's something you'd previously said was under consideration. As always, your time and effort are much appreciated, as are those of other moderators and IKs. Thanks for being open to discuss.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

heres some feedback: you dont. it should be pointed out that some people in this conversation have no actual interest in it and are trying to win a weird proxy fight, and they should be harangued at great length for being toxic

Terrible Opinions
Oct 18, 2013



Why is no one probed for slapfights eachtime this thread reopens with "don't restart slap fights" and they do so anyways?

Boba Pearl
Dec 27, 2019

by Athanatos
Are there threads in games that need 100% uptime on IKs? What's happening that can't wait 12 - 18 hours to be fixed?

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Terrible Opinions posted:

Why is no one probed for slapfights eachtime this thread reopens with "don't restart slap fights" and they do so anyways?

I tend to be pretty slow on the buttons, that's fair feedback from Asema. I'll work on that (or VG will beat me to the punch).

I'm loathe to just be tone-policing but it's true that certain posts seem designed to spark an argument.

Boba Pearl posted:

Are there threads in games that need 100% uptime on IKs? What's happening that can't wait 12 - 18 hours to be fixed?

There are definitely flare-ups that need to be shut down faster than we often can because they render a thread totally unreadable for hours at a time. The problem is sometimes that happens when none of us are around so we come back to a torrent of reports and go "well poo poo"

Harrow fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Sep 15, 2021

VideoGames
Aug 18, 2003

Terrible Opinions posted:

Why is no one probed for slapfights eachtime this thread reopens with "don't restart slap fights" and they do so anyways?

So far I have not exactly seen a slap-fight, just a bit of discussion potentially a bit heated. Slap fights I class as multiple back and forth posts that are just insulting and wildly off topic.

I want people to be able to post and sometimes they might be angry about something and that is part of the feedback.

Orv
May 4, 2011
I've mostly stayed out for whatever the gently caress this has been but I will say as someone who doesn't really enjoy when Stux barrels into a thread to be aggro for no real reason, I'd rather keep Stux around for calling out people with their heads shoved violently up their own rear end than entirely get rid of them. This was not my sentiment before this whole thing, it sure is now.

Though I do wish you'd cut down on the heavy aggro in threads that are just being normal, Stux, please.

Amp
Sep 10, 2010

:11tea::bubblewoop::agesilaus::megaman::yoshi::squawk::supaburn::iit::spooky::axe::honked::shroom::smugdog::sg::pkmnwhy::parrot::screamy::tubular::corsair::sanix::yeeclaw::hayter::flip::redflag:

Boba Pearl posted:

Are there threads in games that need 100% uptime on IKs? What's happening that can't wait 12 - 18 hours to be fixed?

When I was modding there was really only one example I can think of that could have benefited from IK coverage like that. I think the Cyberpunk thread last year probably could have used an IK or two because of how incredibly active it was for the day or two before and a day or two after release because reading it basically became a full time job for me for a few days, but that was a pretty unique set of circumstances.

I think temporary IKs for big release threads might be something to consider in the future.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

FAUXTON posted:

Heck, I'm glad to see you agreeing on that point (empowered IKs), hopefully it's something that moves in the right direction going forward even if it's pushing the 6er to a 12-hour rather than the full 24, but that's where I was thinking a more localized set of authorities might help - if moderators are limited only to 24 hours without further approval, why not push that to 3 or 7 days, with IKs able to issue, say, 12 hours without approval and then only needing a moderator's approval for 24? Like a less steep gradient of authority where the folks with the bandwidth and closer involvement can be more free to act in the short and medium term and things of a more permanent tack are kept in the hands of admins.

As for IKs being more strictly limited to specific threads, I'm all for it but reiterate that I think it runs into the issue of having a responsiveness gap, though that's something you'd previously said was under consideration. As always, your time and effort are much appreciated, as are those of other moderators and IKs. Thanks for being open to discuss.

as an example everything this weirdo posts should be disregarded adn they should be hounded out of the forum because theyre a toxic freak



trying to weaponise a disorder because arf posted a troll face at you should result in you being reduced to ash in a tiny crater for being a truly odious human being and should provide context for whats being calling for and why. one of the nastiest people i havev ever had the displeasure to lay eyes upon on sa. anyone doing this, including the people who did it earlier in this thread, should have no say on anything. however i understand they did so very politely and so are upstanding people :D

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


ShallNoiseUpon posted:

When I was modding there was really only one example I can think of that could have benefited from IK coverage like that. I think the Cyberpunk thread last year probably could have used an IK or two because of how incredibly active it was for the day or two before and a day or two after release because reading it basically became a full time job for me for a few days, but that was a pretty unique set of circumstances.

Having to be an IK for a thread like cyberpunk seems like a horrible curse

Moola
Aug 16, 2006

FAUXTON posted:

(empowered IKs)

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

FAUXTON posted:

Heck, I'm glad to see you agreeing on that point (empowered IKs), hopefully it's something that moves in the right direction going forward even if it's pushing the 6er to a 12-hour rather than the full 24, but that's where I was thinking a more localized set of authorities might help - if moderators are limited only to 24 hours without further approval, why not push that to 3 or 7 days, with IKs able to issue, say, 12 hours without approval and then only needing a moderator's approval for 24? Like a less steep gradient of authority where the folks with the bandwidth and closer involvement can be more free to act in the short and medium term and things of a more permanent tack are kept in the hands of admins.

As for IKs being more strictly limited to specific threads, I'm all for it but reiterate that I think it runs into the issue of having a responsiveness gap, though that's something you'd previously said was under consideration. As always, your time and effort are much appreciated, as are those of other moderators and IKs. Thanks for being open to discuss.



(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Saxophone
Sep 19, 2006


I think my feedback would be, and this may well be out of the purview of Games itself, but is also applicable within games, is that IKs are generally chosen by a mod, as much as mods by admins, and should be trusted to and let do their job, without having to feel like they're getting overridden or micromanaged. Also be able to do something slightly more than a 6er/12er/1day.

If threadbanning and bans are something mods/admin are trying to steer away from, then there needs to be something more than a 6er.

All of that said, if you have folks ruining other folks' enjoyment of something, "just ignore it" feels kind of lovely. It's advice I'm gonna follow, but it still doesn't feel great.

Is there any way to do thread-specific probes? I feel like if you could give IKs the ability to thread-specific probes folks you could keep a discussion where you wanted it a lot easier because folks will either shape up or find other threads? Just spit balling on that one.

ethanol
Jul 13, 2007



the 6 hour probes are funny and the reason they dont escalate it is because its funny and people are having a good time out there hth good luck with the forums court and all that

Amp
Sep 10, 2010

:11tea::bubblewoop::agesilaus::megaman::yoshi::squawk::supaburn::iit::spooky::axe::honked::shroom::smugdog::sg::pkmnwhy::parrot::screamy::tubular::corsair::sanix::yeeclaw::hayter::flip::redflag:

Saxophone posted:

I think my feedback would be, and this may well be out of the purview of Games itself, but is also applicable within games, is that IKs are generally chosen by a mod, as much as mods by admins, and should be trusted to and let do their job, without having to feel like they're getting overridden or micromanaged. Also be able to do something slightly more than a 6er/12er/1day.

yeah that's beyond the purview of the thread probably.

quote:

If threadbanning and bans are something mods/admin are trying to steer away from, then there needs to be something more than a 6er.


are they? i never liked doing them when I was a mod because it just felt like shoving a problem elsewhere and if the behavior at hand is that bad that i didn't want them in Games it was probably bad enough that I didn't want them on the site at all. Admins tended to disagree and think that posting environment has a lot to do with poster behavior and that some posters may post better in various forums with a different group of posters around.

quote:

Is there any way to do thread-specific probes? I feel like if you could give IKs the ability to thread-specific probes folks you could keep a discussion where you wanted it a lot easier because folks will either shape up or find other threads? Just spit balling on that one.

Nope but that's an interesting suggestion that you should at least post in the tech forum for astral to think about. There is however, a mod option for slow mode but that's kind of a whole different thing.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Terrible Opinions
Oct 18, 2013



VideoGames posted:

So far I have not exactly seen a slap-fight, just a bit of discussion potentially a bit heated. Slap fights I class as multiple back and forth posts that are just insulting and wildly off topic.

I want people to be able to post and sometimes they might be angry about something and that is part of the feedback.
Overall I can agree but I don't think Saxophone or Stux have said anything new in the past dozen or so pages and keep re-litigating the same stuff through slightly different proxies every single time the thread is opened.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply