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OwlFancier posted:Wait, as in people think Games doesn't like any games? That is way opposite from my experience, if anything I would say that the threads overwhelmingly select for people who do like the games a whole lot? It might stem from an outdated perception of the forum, but outside of Games there's definitely an attitude that the Games forum is where people go to be negative about games. There's a recent QCS thread about the Imp Zone that took the general tone of "Imp Zone is for people who like games, Games is for people who want to complain about them." That's not true, of course, but the perception is still out there.
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Feb 10, 2021 18:59
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ShallNoiseUpon posted:I think there's also a certain bit of truth to it, especially at release of highly anticipated games like The Last of Us 2 and Cyberpunk 2077 in the last year. People, even here, tend to hype up games to heights that they will never actually achieve and frequently that comes to a head on release of these mega popular games. That's really the only time I see any notable amounts of negativity-focused posting, for the most part and I'm not sure if that's even necessarily something we want to focus on a tamp down on. Yeah, that's true. How much negativity you encounter (and how severe that negativity is) probably depends on what kind of games you're coming here to post about. The bigger and more hyped the game, the more risk of hype backlash and a big negativity spiral. Threads for more niche games/genres tend to be populated by people who already like that thing. And while those kinds of threads, or threads for long-established games like WoW, can and do enter into negativity spirals, it's a different flavor than the "everyone rush in to make fun of the game everybody hates" events that happen with things like Cyberpunk 2077. ShallNoiseUpon posted:I would like to hear opinions on this -- people are allowed to be disappointed by games and they should be able to post about it, but there can be a point where it becomes tedious and unpleasant to deal with constant negative that may be abound (as a general thought, not in terms of any specific game or thread). I'm not sure what the right balance is there, but it's something we can keep in mind going forward. I'm interested in opinions as well. My gut feeling is that there's no hard line, but that it becomes a problem when there are people who want to talk about a game and it's getting drowned out by a ton of arguing and negativity. There are times when that kind of thing just needs to be able to rage on, and times when it's just really funny to laugh at a bad game. I'm not sure where to draw a line for "okay, time for the negativity to chill out," though. I don't want to stifle negative opinions just because they're negative, but at the same time, I don't want to make it impossible for someone who is enjoying (or at least trying to enjoy) a game to discuss it with others because it's currently the cool game to hate and argue about.
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Feb 10, 2021 19:21
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cheetah7071 posted:it's games but when you like a post you emptyquote it or say lol instead of just appreciating it in silence
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Feb 11, 2021 03:03
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Pretend I'm just a regular guy posting, but I think it'd work best if it were enforced that the griefing has to be actually be funny, instead of just antagonistic or annoying. Agreed. I used to love reading about funny griefing stories years ago, so I'd be happy to see a new griefing thread. As long as it's creative and funny I'm in.
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Mar 27, 2021 06:01
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Is the Switch thread usually at each others' throats or is it just E3's got everyone all riled up?
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Jun 15, 2021 21:09
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Actually, while we're on the topic: are there threads you all think might need a thread IK? Console threads? Any game threads that don't already (I know Destiny does)? There are some big, active threads that none of the mods seem to read on our own very often so maybe some thread IKs might help keep those running a little cooler.
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Jun 17, 2021 03:18
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We're going to look for a Switch thread IK for sure. Might be a good time for a thread reboot, too. If you have nominations for a good IK--someone who's active in the Switch thread and has a level head and is a positive presence--feel free to PM them to any Games mod.
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Jun 19, 2021 16:48
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Oh, I didn't know it was GDQ time! Yep, stickied.
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Jul 5, 2021 05:39
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Why would I gas the resident FFXIV chat thread?
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Sep 8, 2021 12:17
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More seriously: The Blizzwatch thread isn't breaking any rules. It isn't affecting other threads. It's just there, being a chat thread for ex-Blizzard fans and even some ex-Blizzard employees to vent about Blizzard and chat about the other games they like (mostly FFXIV). It is utterly harmless and I am not going to gas it or close it just because a couple posters think it's dumb. If a poster in the thread does something worthy of a heavier probation than an IK can hand out or you feel that something really bad has been allowed to skate by, report the post and/or PM me. I'm aware of one such post now and have queued a longer probation (awaiting admin approval) because I agree that it's pretty egregious. But I'm also not going to tolerate some stupid posting crusade to get a thread closed because it, what, offends your sensibilities to see it in the thread listing?
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Sep 8, 2021 12:57
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Nephrite posted:I really don't intend to open a can of worms like this, but that's absolutely untrue. The entire thread is an echo chamber that borders on sycophantism with some people against Blizzard and its current state. I 100% agree the company deserves every bit of ridicule for the way it's handled things and for its cartoonishly evil stances, but let's please not pretend that there aren't people from that thread who make it their goal to go into the WoW forum and drop hot takes over and over about how much better FF14 is on an almost daily basis, and swing by with snipes about "how could people still be playing WoW?? it's so bad!!!" or "Well *I* won't be coming back to play no matter what!!!" I don't mean this to sound dismissive, but I sort of suspect the same posters would be doing the same thing with or without the Blizzwatch thread, in light of the recent lawsuit especially. It might even come up more in the WoW subforum if the Blizzwatch thread didn't exist as a dedicated "yell about how evil Blizzard is" space. I could be wrong about that, and I will actually agree and backtrack a bit to say that I can think of a couple times posters seemed extra riled up in the Blizzwatch thread and took it elsewhere (the Games chat thread once), but I think those situations are fairly rare. If I'm (once again) wrong about that then let me know and I will have a talk with the posters in the thread about it, because I would agree that attacking people for the games they play is fully unacceptable, in Games or any of its subforums. Stux posted:if its a chat thread it should live in cccc. That isn't a hard and fast sitewide rule and there are plenty of more chat-focused threads that live in non-CCCC forums.
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Sep 8, 2021 14:02
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Stux posted:if its a chat thread and not a mock thread why was it in cccc and moved back here. think its a mock thread and idk why mock threads keep having to have teh special rule where it can only go one way. seems to create very weird threads! It's not a mock thread. It's a chat thread. Probably 50% about non-Blizzard MMOs at this point, if I'm honest. It was in CCCC because it needed a home after the Blizzard subforum closed earlier this year. Ultimately we decided to try moving it to Games, since it is about video games, and the timing ended up being... weird, because it moved here about a day or two before the big Blizzard lawsuit dropped and the thread became something of a flashpoint. Things have calmed down a lot there now, and it has gotten some new posters due to being in Games and not hidden away in CCCC, which I think has been positive for the thread. People getting riled up and attacking people for playing Blizzard games would happen whether that thread was in CCCC or in Games (though again, this seems to be a rare occurrence outside the thread itself, and again, please let me know if I'm wrong and missing something happening right under my nose). There would be little to no practical difference, except that Games mods wouldn't have buttons in that thread anymore, I guess?
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Sep 8, 2021 14:29
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Stux posted:as to whaht dongicus is complaining about specifically I'm aware of that situation, yeah. I do not think Boba Pearl was calling Dongicus a rapist there--she was under a mistaken impression about Dongicus from his posts in the vtuber thread because, IIRC, she was taking those posts seriously and thought Dongicus was a weird creep and not making those posts to mock the vtuber thread. That said, I also think punishments were handed out unevenly there, and I'll take responsibility for not handling the situation since I was actively reading the thread at the time. As a mod, that one's on me. It was long enough ago that I don't think it would be right for me to go back and apply punishments differently at this point, but it's something I will handle differently in the future. Stux posted:i assume the other one where the poster got a sixer for calling someone mr afrasiabi is the one being looked at again now, but its also unacceptable that post got by with a sixer and then multiple people complaining about it got probated, some for longer because breaking a thread ban was apparently more heinous than calling another poster a rapist. Yes, that's the post I was talking about earlier. That post is completely unacceptable and I don't think it should've been allowed to slide by. There is a longer probation in the queue for it awaiting admin approval. I would have put it through sooner but I've been busy moving a third of the way across the US for the past couple weeks and I missed it when it happened. I also agree that breaking the thread ban is not worse than comparing another poster to a rapist, not by a long shot. I think this is good feedback for Kith as thread IK. In the interest of transparency, I do want to note that thread bans lead to weird probation lengths and I don't really like them for that reason. If you want a thread ban to stick, you have to ramp up the punishments for breaking it, even if the posts themselves don't warrant the kind of probations they're getting. This is, by the way, why we ended up lifting your Stadia thread ban: I was uncomfortable probating you for a long time for just posting silly jokes in a mostly-inactive thread, and that meant I couldn't enforce the thread ban and it was ultimately meaningless.
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Sep 8, 2021 15:01
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Stux posted:well glad to heahr it was just a mistake to insinuate something gross about another poster, certainly no need for the multiple mods to correct that or punish the baseless accusation. frankly punishing dongicus for haivng the temerity to want the situation correct was the only possible response. unrelated but i think all mods are pedos and if thats wrong, well, it was a mistake Stux, like I said, that post should have been probated. I agree with you. I should have done that and it's on me that I didn't. I think it's a bad idea to go back a couple months and hit it now, but I should have addressed it then and I didn't. That's on me and it's my fault.
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Sep 8, 2021 15:10
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It's become clear that I made a serious error in judgment about that post that I can't really correct now, and I apologize. I'm not sure what action to take right now but I want to apologize (to Dongicus especially) first and foremost, and I'm open to more feedback about next steps.
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Sep 8, 2021 15:18
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Stux posted:if the usernames were reversed what wouldve happened? im p sure if dongicus or whoever else posted those things at the others they wouldve been rightly destroyed on sight. if they were from a non thread banned poster to another non thread banned poster what wouldve happened? again i think that i tprobably wouldve been hit in that situation as well. if thats the case then that might illustrate something about how thread banning for minor infractions isnt particularly helpful. Yeah I agree with this, and I'll make sure Kith reads it, too. There's been some feedback from admins in the past that thread IKs should stick to 6ers but comparing people to (or implying they are) rapists is unacceptable and needs to be cracked down on a lot harder, and if Kith gets to it before a mod does, that's fine by me if he sends through a longer probe.
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Sep 8, 2021 16:13
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The post was reported and I let it go because I believed it to be a misunderstanding. In retrospect, that was a mistake, and again I apologize for that. If nothing else I should have posted about it and/or explained my reasoning rather than silently leaving the post alone. For the record, I would not have submitted a ban for it, just a long probation. Harrow fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Sep 9, 2021 |
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Sep 9, 2021 02:41
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I want to collate some of the feedback in here about the proposed games industry thread and what sort of moderation it would require. I'll list out the concerns as I understand them, to make sure I'm reading everyone right:
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Sep 10, 2021 11:55
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Yeah, that's a good point. It might be better to leave off that rule and just apply the standard SA (unwritten?) rule of "if you're making a thread all about you, that's annoying and we're going to tell you to stop." People can have reactions to things, it's just best if nobody's having a meltdown or self-flagellating or being weirdly celebratory.
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Sep 10, 2021 12:12
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Kith, I'm going to be entirely honest that I don't really buy that the Subforum Slayers tag is completely without gloating. The Blizzard Deathwatch thread back in its old haunt more than once had a long and angry discussion about how the Blizzard Subforum should be closed. I recognize that the tag is meant in good fun and I don't think anyone means any malice by it (or I would have spoken up about it when the tag was going around), but I don't want to pretend it's not, y'know, poking fun at the closing of a subforum that some of the posters wearing the tag wanted to be closed. I don't think it should be removed or that anyone should be punished for it or anything--again, I don't think it's malicious--I just don't want to pretend that it isn't a "lmao it's dead and I'm glad of it" tag at its core.
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Sep 10, 2021 14:29
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Fat and Useless posted:It's because she is right. Gonna ask to nip this particular discussion in the bud. This is not a place to relitigate people mocking vtuber threads or any of that.
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Sep 10, 2021 15:58
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CCCC often is a place for threads that end up developing their own community or identity, sometimes beyond the scope of the thread's original purpose and that may eclipse the thread's original topic. One good example of a thread there is the XBox thread, which ended up becoming kind of its own community and less just a place for talking about Xboxes and the games you can play on Xboxes. So it got moved to CCCC so it could keep doing what it's doing, while a new, more on-topic Xbox thread was made in Games.Endorph posted:unrelated to this convo and probably a question for qcs but it would be cool if custom subforum stylesheets were optional for exactly this reason Yeah, I just looked in the options and was surprised not to see it there. Maybe it's a TECH subforum question? https://forums.somethingawful.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=676
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Sep 10, 2021 17:44
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The Blizzwatch thread situation is on me so I figure I should make this post to take some responsibility for how it all went down. You're all owed an explanation. I was the one who was first asked about a move to Games, and I advocated for it since I thought it would work out okay. I also took a mostly hands-off approach to it because it was functioning as its own community for the most part. Some posters were concerned that a move to Games would change the thread or what was allowed there and I promised them that it wouldn't. The timing was... bad. In fairness to everyone, nobody knew the Blizzard lawsuit was going to drop like a day or two after Blizzwatch got moved to games. It understandably became the focus of the discussion on that topic and needed a ton more moderation than usual, which I don't know that I did a very good job of. I eventually backed off again when things seemed like they were calming down and I think on the whole, as a moderation team, we kind of left the thread to its own devices unless something really bad got reported. I checked in and out and sometimes posted in there because I like a good MMO chat, but I didn't use buttons much there. Turns out, that didn't go well. I ignored the issues that were cropping up and some of the more contentious arguments that happened, and let some pretty bad posts slide that I should have probated on the spot. And now the thread has gotten moved back to CCCC (which most people seem to be fine with) and lost its IK (that part people are not, it would seem, fine with), and so I completely understand Blizzwatch posters being really burned at my moderation there. I promised nothing would change and instead the whole thing kind of got blown up. Anyway I want to apologize to everyone, Games posters and Blizzwatch posters alike, for just really making a huge mess of this whole thing. I know that thread caused some problems here and in the WoW subforum, and I also know it's some people's favorite posting spot that just got shitted up, and a lot of that's on me for just letting things fester, and I'm sorry for that.
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Sep 10, 2021 19:28
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Disargeria posted:It's not that no one's bothered, it's that everyone knows it is going to be an absolutely insane thread to moderate. An OP for a general industry issues thread is supposedly in the works and presumably Games mods will be the ones moderating it when/if the thread is made. I wouldn't mind it having an IK but we'd have to find someone willing and it's a big ask to IK a probably-contentious thread like that.
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Sep 10, 2021 20:04
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I think BYOB mods have buttons in CCCC, but I could be wrong about that.
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Sep 10, 2021 20:09
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Xarbala posted:I do think BYOB mods and admins can use their buttons there, I just don't know if they actually get reports? The situation with cccc is weird because it's explicitly a place for out-of-byob threads to go when they get too unwieldy for their original subforums. CCCC reports show up in the reports forum like any other and any mod can see them (even me, I just can't do anything about them). BYOB mods do check those reports and take action on them as needed. I think mods almost always have buttons for whatever subforums are under the forum they mod. For example, I have buttons in the WoW subforum even though I'm not listed as a mod of it, I just never use them because it's not my jurisdiction.
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Sep 10, 2021 20:26
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Okay, that's enough slapfighting. If you have more feedback about the Games forum or, yes, how this whole situation was handled and is being handled, that's what this thread is for. It's not for hashing out this argument about who does and doesn't have an unhealthy mindset or whatever is going on here.
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Sep 10, 2021 20:34
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Asema posted:What's the reason for dropping Kith as the IK. That's never been explained at this point. They were doing a pretty good job policing the thread. You can ask that, yes, but unfortunately I don't have the answer myself. I believe Athanatos is going to be away for a while but I hope he or another admin can answer that, since the decision was made at that level.
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Sep 10, 2021 20:38
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The Shortest Path posted:I didn't think so but apparently? I also thought IKs only could give probes in specific threads but I guess Moola is giving them out despite not being that thread's IK so who knows. Really shameful "moderation" either way though imo. IKs usually have IK buttons in a whole forum but agree to use them only in their specific thread. There is a system for thread-specific IKs but it's not quite done yet (if I understand correctly) and needs to be set up manually by astral. That was how Kith was set up and why his star only showed up in Blizzwatch, but it's not in widespread use yet. Usually we just make someone a forum-wide IK and then trust them to only use their buttons in the thread they're IK of, like Herstory (for the Path of Exile Thread) or Mega64 (Switch thread).
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Sep 10, 2021 21:47
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Unless people are using slurs in Games I don't think this is the right thread to hash out where on this forum you can and can't use what words. We don't allow that particular slur in Games but I don't think this is the right thread to debate other forums' rules or site-wide policy. I understand the frustration with nobody currently having buttons in Blizzwatch, though.
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Sep 10, 2021 21:51
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Again, this is the Games feedback thread. If there's a problem with the rules or enforcement in another forum, please discuss that elsewhere. There's plenty to still discuss about Games and Games-related things like Blizzwatch without getting into the slur debate here.
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Sep 10, 2021 21:55
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Generic American posted:On the other hand, it is kinda hosed to randomly subject a bunch of people to that new environment of "well, technically you just have to deal with that slur now every six hours or so" because a Games admin moved them there. There's no such thing as a Games admin. All the admins are forums-wide admins. That said, the issue of the Blizzwatch thread is relevant to Games so it's fine to discuss here. It's just not up to Games mods how slurs are or are not enforced in other forums.
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Sep 10, 2021 21:57
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12 rats tied together posted:maybe the games mods can send out a newsletter so you dont have to worry about feedback you dont care about polluting the feedback thread It's not that I don't care. I just have no power at all over what words you are and are not allowed in forums that aren't Games or a Games subforum. Slurs are not allowed in Games or the subforums that Games mods actually moderate and that's all we can control. As loathe as I am to recommend making a QCS thread, "you shouldn't be allowed to use slurs anywhere on this site" is an issue that is bigger than Games and so it makes more sense there than here.
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Sep 10, 2021 22:07
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12 rats tied together posted:to be clear, i am responding to the guy complaining about there being feedback in the feedback thread, not making any assertions about the quality of moderation Ah, fair enough, I understand then.
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Sep 10, 2021 22:09
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Okay I do not want to start probating people whose feedback I am otherwise interested in reading so one more warning: this is not the place to discuss whether or not you can use slurs in other forums that are not Games or Games subforums. Take that discussion elsewhere. I frankly do not care where. If you choose QCS then good luck and godspeed, I wish you all the best. From now on there'll be probations for continuing that argument in this thread.
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Sep 10, 2021 22:16
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I have to step away from the computer for a few hours so please try to keep the discussion civil in here so I don't have to do the  face and probate a bunch of people when I come back. Thank you.
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Sep 10, 2021 22:27
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Thanks for keeping things mostly on track, everyone, and thanks to Athanatos and Metis for stepping in to guide things too. I am very tired and going to bed but I'll catch up and read what people posted in more detail tomorrow.Meloncholric posted:as for the blizzwatch thread itself. i PM'd Harrow my thoughts on the matter a few days ago don't know if he read or not and don't care because it wasn't an obligation for them to read it or anything i just wanted to post my thoughts about it while on probation. so i'll just give the short version of what I wrote. mock threads suck. they are only funny for a week or two and once stuff to make fun of runs out it either becomes a creepy cespool of goons stalking people like the star citizen subforum or reposting the same unfunny joke over and over like the doobie threads. chat threads suck too for the similar reasons because they form their own insular communities that are hostile to outsiders because they have grown accustomed to any weird behavior of regular posters in their threads I did read the PM, and shared the feedback with other Games mods. I've been trying to think of what's best for Games and what's best for Blizzwatch for a few days now so I appreciated the input. Meant to reply but I've had an unusually large number of PMs lately so it slipped 
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Sep 11, 2021 04:11
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Ultimately the decision ended up not really being mine to make on what to do to keep Games and Blizzwatch both going well but, well, I think the move back to CCCC seems like the closest to making everyone happy we were probably going to get.
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Sep 11, 2021 04:16
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Yeah at this point I'm not sure this has to do with Games anymore. If you think the thread should be closed or whatever, that's out of our jurisdiction now. I like Smythe too much to tell you to take it to QCS but if you really, really have an issue with the thread's continued existence, that's probably the right place for it. If there are things that the Games moderation team needs to do or lessons we should take from this, that is a helpful thing to discuss in this thread. But I don't think it's productive to keep debating whether the thread should continue to exist or litigate the posts happening in it here.
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Sep 11, 2021 21:40
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Reveilled posted:Completely different topic: Some folks in the RIP Idolninja thread have suggested the Games forum doing a charity drive to raise money for cancer charities with the old saints row gangtag as a reward. Would there be any Mod interest in supporting this? It would be for a good cause and it might be nice to do something together as a community to get away from all the bad vibes of the last two days. I completely missed this in all the other stuff but yes, this sounds like a great idea to me. I don't have any experience running things like this but I'll definitely participate and I can volunteer to queue up any gangtags that are needed.
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Sep 11, 2021 23:20
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