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RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






Vagabundo posted:

Imagine a show created by Joss Whedon, with Steven Moffat as the showrunner.

Butch Hartmann animates it

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Clip-On Fedora
Feb 20, 2011




Vagabundo posted:

Imagine a show created by Joss Whedon, with Steven Moffat as the showrunner.

I'm imagining that was what The Nevers was like.

lol Whedon apparently got thrown off that show last year too.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013





Dapper_Swindler posted:

he said the right stuff before and during and after gamergate and that gave sacks of poo poo like him and farci and couple lesser gross weirdos like burch and i am sure others some "cover" when their bad poo poo came out. i remember farci got a bunch of excuses for a while when his poo poo came out. and burch never got a big outrage when the casting couch poo poo came out but that was because he has already "left" riot games. whedon was basicaly able to keep his poo poo underwraps for a while even though little poo poo came out about some of his stuff during buffy/angle/whatever.
See I don't think that's true. It's really a lot more parasocial nerd poo poo just assuming that if their idol even gives the slightest support to an ideology they are a pillar of it. If a show they like portrays something it must be doing it well and in a totally innovative way. No one became a Whedon fan because they liked stuff he said about feminism, they were fans of Buffy/Firefly/etc and just assumed he was a good person who must be a good supporter of anything he says because they like those shows he worked on.

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


RareAcumen posted:

Butch Hartmann animates it

Does Graham Linehan have a writing credit?

Seemlar
Jun 17, 2002


Terrible Opinions posted:

See I don't think that's true. It's really a lot more parasocial nerd poo poo just assuming that if their idol even gives the slightest support to an ideology they are a pillar of it. If a show they like portrays something it must be doing it well and in a totally innovative way. No one became a Whedon fan because they liked stuff he said about feminism, they were fans of Buffy/Firefly/etc and just assumed he was a good person who must be a good supporter of anything he says because they like those shows he worked on.

Whedon absolutely did actively present himself as a pillar for things like feminism and empowering women - "Strong women" was kind of his whole thing, regardless of how even his regarded work is packed with problematic things.

If there hadn't been the seemingly endless reveals of what a scumbag he is stemming from the Justice League debacle, he'd probably have continued to get a pass for it too

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?



Arcsquad12 posted:

Does Graham Linehan have a writing credit?

Let's just find a way to squeeze Roman Polanski in too while we're at it, the avengers of horrible people.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013





Seemlar posted:

Whedon absolutely did actively present himself as a pillar for things like feminism and empowering women - "Strong women" was kind of his whole thing, regardless of how even his regarded work is packed with problematic things.
Yes and the only reason anyone cared was if they already liked his media. People in positions of power get away with being serial abusers period, and any personal beliefs broadcast by their pr team has no real impact on that. I'm specifically objecting to this bit

Dapper_Swindler posted:

he said the right stuff before and during and after gamergate and that gave sacks of poo poo like him and farci and couple lesser gross weirdos like burch and i am sure others some "cover"
As if these guys got away with poo poo because of feminist virtue signalling rather than the fact that they made more powerful people a lot of money, and made media that people liked.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."


Terrible Opinions posted:

See I don't think that's true. It's really a lot more parasocial nerd poo poo just assuming that if their idol even gives the slightest support to an ideology they are a pillar of it. If a show they like portrays something it must be doing it well and in a totally innovative way. No one became a Whedon fan because they liked stuff he said about feminism, they were fans of Buffy/Firefly/etc and just assumed he was a good person who must be a good supporter of anything he says because they like those shows he worked on.

It's absolutely how he presented himself



And not just to fans but to people in his life.

Kari Cole, Whedon's ex-wife posted:

[Joss] always had a lot of female friends, but he told me it was because his mother raised him as a feminist, so he just liked women better. He said he admired and respected females, he didnít lust after them. I believed him and trusted him.
...
Despite understanding, on some level, that what he was doing was wrong, he never conceded the hypocrisy of being out in the world preaching feminist ideals, while at the same time, taking away my right to make choices for my life and my body based on the truth. He deceived me for 15 years, so he could have everything he wanted. I believed, everyone believed, that he was one of the good guys, committed to fighting for womenís rights, committed to our marriage, and to the women he worked with. But I now see how he used his relationship with me as a shield, both during and after our marriage, so no one would question his relationships with other women or scrutinize his writing as anything other than feminist.

Impermanent
Apr 1, 2010








Terrible Opinions posted:

Yes and the only reason anyone cared was if they already liked his media. People in positions of power get away with being serial abusers period, and any personal beliefs broadcast by their pr team has no real impact on that. I'm specifically objecting to this bit
As if these guys got away with poo poo because of feminist virtue signalling rather than the fact that they made more powerful people a lot of money, and made media that people liked.

I've known people with none of the power or money or fame of joss whedon to do exactly his little male ally dance to cast doubt on people when the women they'd securely assaulted spoke up. It's not just a money and power thing. People do the woke ally thing to hide their own abuse at any level of society.

Vagabundo
Mar 20, 2007

Ya like Little Wayne?



Ugh. gently caress off gently caress off gently caress off gently caress off gently caress off gently caress off gently caress off gently caress off gently caress off gently caress off gently caress off gently caress off

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Both Geoff Johns and Joss Whedon are laying as low as possible and are trying not to attract too much attention to themselves with the hope of coming back in a few years when this poo poo has blown over.

Here's the thing though. They pissed of the wrong person. Ray Fisher is not only smart, he's not afraid to torch his career to make sure they get what's coming to them. He's purposefully been holding back on the details and pooping back up every few months with some new salacious detail about what kind of hosed up poo poo they pulled on him lr the rest of the cast.

The extra lovely thing about all this is that now that the Snyder cut is out we can contrast and compare Zacks work with John/Whedons, and the latter is inferior in every single way. Lile literally every decision made was for the worse, so we get to see theie incompetence in full display.

They got nothing left. The people who worked with them hate them, they've been proven to be terrible filmmakers, and now they got the stench of racism on them.

This is why it pays to not be an rear end in a top hat.

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

I'll see you in the dome





Feels a bit mean to put Steven Moffat, who wrote some TV people don't like, in a box with Roman Polanski thirty years on the lam for paedo crimes.

Vagabundo
Mar 20, 2007

Ya like Little Wayne?


josh04 posted:

Feels a bit mean to put Steven Moffat, who wrote some TV people don't like, in a box with Roman Polanski thirty years on the lam for paedo crimes.

Oh you know he's done something.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


there was that time he yelled at that producer (who he was having an affair with I think?) that she was "erased from Doctor Who"

Superrodan
Nov 27, 2007


Now that Defunctland has covered Carmen Sandiego, I hope so much it jumps aboard the Square One Television train. Mathnet was the poo poo and the show proper included all sorts of weird segments and guest stars. I just want someone besides me that acknowledges that the Angle Dance was one of the best bizarre kids educational songs that ever existed, damnit.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






The only good move Whedon did with Justice League is have the colors on everyone's costumes actually stand out and be discernable. Everyone looks like they wandered out of Murdered: Soul Suspect with how weak the colors on them are.

Obviously gently caress him regardless of how barely a decent a decision he might've made in making a movie

RareAcumen fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Apr 8, 2021

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."


Dabir posted:

there was that time he yelled at that producer (who he was having an affair with I think?) that she was "erased from Doctor Who"

I've seen a few different rumours (they were actually having an affair, they didn't but she fancied him, they didn't and the conflict was because they just didn't work well together) and there's nothing to really make it clear what happened.

Vagabundo
Mar 20, 2007

Ya like Little Wayne?


gently caress, I had no idea Moffat had actually done anything remotely shady, beyond make a lovely TV series based on Sherlock Holmes that seemed to get worse with each episode.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.




Vagabundo posted:

gently caress, I had no idea Moffat had actually done anything remotely shady, beyond make a lovely TV series based on Sherlock Holmes that seemed to get worse with each episode.

He also made poo poo adaptations of Jekyll & Hyde and Dracula. A good director is someone who take even the oldest or most derived material, and put a fresh spin on it that reinvigorates interest (Little Women 2019).

Moffett on the other hand just brushes everything aside to make his fanfiction where he strokes off his cleverness.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





josh04 posted:

Feels a bit mean to put Steven Moffat, who wrote some TV people don't like, in a box with Roman Polanski thirty years on the lam for paedo crimes.

I think Harris H Bomberguy would disagree

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

I'll see you in the dome





gently caress harris bomberguy!

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Oh you done it now mate. You best keep an eye out for those boomerangs

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

I'll see you in the dome





May have gotten a little heated there. I apologise to the thread.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS


josh04 posted:

Feels a bit mean to put Steven Moffat, who wrote some TV people don't like, in a box with Roman Polanski thirty years on the lam for paedo crimes.

Take him off it, put Warren Ellis in there as writer instead.

Sir Lemming
Jan 27, 2009

It's a piece of JUNK!

RareAcumen posted:

The only good move Whedon did with Justice League is have the colors on everyone's costumes actually stand out and be discernable. Everyone looks like they wandered out of Murdered: Soul Suspect with how weak the colors on them are.

Obviously gently caress him regardless of how barely a decent a decision he might've made in making a movie

Much like everything else in that whole debacle, I file that under "might have been a good choice if the movie had started out that way". But retroactively adding it in didn't look quite right, because it seems their costumes were designed with Snyder lighting in mind. They looked cheap when properly lit/colored.

Goa Tse-tung
Feb 11, 2008

;3



Yams Fan

Fil5000 posted:

Take him off it, put Warren Ellis in there as writer instead.

oh yeah, Ellis is (hopefully was) TV now

SimonChris
Apr 24, 2008

The Baron's daughter is missing, and you are the man to find her. No problem. With your inexhaustible arsenal of hard-boiled similes, there is nothing you can't handle.

Grimey Drawer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5gX2XZcw3A

Super Bunnyhop on the Hitman trilogy and how the story is actually good when you experience the whole thing in order and recognize all the callbacks.

Make sure to watch the sponsorship ad at the end.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Seemlar posted:

Whedon absolutely did actively present himself as a pillar for things like feminism and empowering women - "Strong women" was kind of his whole thing, regardless of how even his regarded work is packed with problematic things.

What's funny if you take a super critical look at his 'feminism' it's more that he had a kink for tiny women doing spin kicks than actually trying to empower anything.

Fil5000 posted:

Take him off it, put Warren Ellis in there as writer instead.

Oh, I'm guessing you haven't heard about Ellis. https://bleedingcool.com/comics/warren-ellis-accused-of-grooming-young-women-for-decades/

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



josh04 posted:

Feels a bit mean to put Steven Moffat, who wrote some TV people don't like, in a box with Roman Polanski thirty years on the lam for paedo crimes.

Final episode of Sherlock though

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




Everyone should've known something was up when a guy named Joe went by "Joss" which is not and has never been a shortened form of Joseph.

DeafNote
Jun 4, 2014

Only Happy When It Rains


MiddleOne posted:

Final episode of Sherlock though

Moffat seems to have a hatred for his own shows fans and an incapability to satisfyingly wrap up most of his shows plotlines.
But I haven't seen anything yet that would put him on Whedons level.

Max Wilco
Jan 22, 2012

I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...

Nuebot posted:

It's really weird to listen to old podcasts and hear nerds praise how cool and good he is, especially on feminist issues.



JordanKai
Aug 19, 2011

Get high and think of me.




Vagabundo posted:

Imagine a show created by Joss Whedon, with Steven Moffat as the showrunner.



I don't like to say "I called it!" on Joss Whedon being a creepo, because that's a confirmation bias-type thing. I will say that his posturing as a feminist always struck me as insincere when all of his supposedly strong female characters were so waifish and emotionally singular. This strongly suggested to me that his fightin' female characters were produced less with the aim of advancing the portrayal of women in media and more so with the aim of producing erotic fodder that just so happened to look vaguely progressive on the surface.

And I was right, unfortunately.

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

I'll see you in the dome





MiddleOne posted:

Final episode of Sherlock though

People presumably liked Saw at some point.

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



Dawgstar posted:

What's funny if you take a super critical look at his 'feminism' it's more that he had a kink for tiny women doing spin kicks than actually trying to empower anything.


https://twitter.com/midnight_pals/status/1357017981541175297?s=20

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Inspector Gesicht posted:

He also made poo poo adaptations of Jekyll & Hyde and Dracula. A good director is someone who take even the oldest or most derived material, and put a fresh spin on it that reinvigorates interest (Little Women 2019).

Moffett on the other hand just brushes everything aside to make his fanfiction where he strokes off his cleverness.

I kinda liked Jekyll .

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017






And then you read Whedon's WW script which almost sounds like a parody the Midnight Society would write but is, in fact, shockingly real.

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?



josh04 posted:

People presumably liked Saw at some point.

SAW was cool when it was more like a thriller and less gore porn, so like, the first movie.

e X
Feb 23, 2013

cool but crude


Dawgstar posted:

And then you read Whedon's WW script which almost sounds like a parody the Midnight Society would write but is, in fact, shockingly real.

Are there any good/ funny analyses out there for that?

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CYBEReris
Dec 15, 2007



the SAW movies gave us memorable, very real quotes, such as the following

https://twitter.com/jigsaw_quotes/status/1374505033337741312

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