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alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
Kid is dumb as poo poo and this is what happens when you look at a spreadsheet devoid of all context. I know exactly how you get to that argument cause when you glance at his bref page without knowing your history it is a little shocking. He is 89th all time in JAWS! That is way below average for a Hall of Famer *gasp*! It is the same as the Ichiro was overrated argument that gets revived every once in awhile.

But dude retired at 30 after a 190 ERA+ season and in the last four years of his career posted 25 bWAR which is 6.5 a season. Pretty stinkin' go--what's that? *checks earpiece* oh sorry, that was 25 WAA over those four years, god drat! I mean, that four year peak is amazing. I mean, Pedro has a better peak, and Johnson does too, but that 4 year stretch is definitely rarified air.

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alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
There are two great SAS debates that haunt me because I was on the wrong side of them. One is thinking that Mike Trout was overhyped (loving oops) and the second was thinking davecrazy was wrong and unfounded in his hatred of Matt Harvey

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
Salvy got a 10th place vote which is cool. And I feel vindicated for my preseason analysis which was that a 60 game season means no second half Salvy, just first half. And, well...161 OPS+, you know?

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
I tweeted at Topps about this before so they definitely know they should be credited Weed Mouse the cowards.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
In my most recent OOTP game I made the custom award just the homerun crown, but I named it after that save game's homerun king. Which is why the award was the Aramis Ramirez Award for about 4 decades.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night

FlamingLiberal posted:

Was this not the year that Jeter was first eligible? I guess it's next year. This is probably the weakest ballot we've had in more than a decade.

Wasn't that last year or am I going insane?

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
I'm a huge hall guy so even with the ballot being much thinner than it used to be i still have over 10 guys I would vote for. In order, let's see
1.) Bonds
2.) Clemens
3.) Rolen
4.) Helton
5.) Jones
6.) Sosa
7.) Manny
8.) Petite
9.) Wagner
10.) Sheffield
11.) Hudson
12.) Buerhle
13.) Kent

And if I were a real voter a vanity vote for the Ole Musketeer too.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
My therapist has me sorting baseball cards before bed. Which is nice. And is helping. But anyway, that got me to look up Matt Harvey on BR. I don't know what I was expecting, but I was definitely surprised. His career ERA+ is underwater now, of course. But he still has a positive WAA which is kind of funny to me. Wonder how many pitchers have a combo like that. ERA+ under 100 but a positive wins above average.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
Sooo... if the biopic canceled or is the tone just changing?

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
Cool. I'm happy to see him in a Royals uniform again. Hopefully we get 2017 or 2019 Mike Minor.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
They Royals brought Ervin Santana out of retirement. They are clearly looking to make a championship run.

But seriously, even though they are bad, with signing Santana, Santana, and Minor, at least they are picking up players i lind of like for sentimental reasons. That's better than tanking with a bunch of nobodies.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night

Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:

Just need Butler and Gordon back

gently caress it, why not?

But seriously, if we get fans in the stands this year I hope they can bring Gordon in on a one day contract so he can at least get a real ovation.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night

bawfuls posted:

This is the part where a smug Royals fan might point out they won back-to-back pennants, which that Cubs team did not do.

That's right! :cool:

And yes, the Royals rode a lot of luck in that run, which is kind of the point bawfuls is making. Those two teams didn't exactly come out of nowhere though. The Royals had a highly touted farm system. It was a core that was supposed to compete for a championship and lo and behold they brought one home even if thet didn't live up to the prospect hype individually. Which is to say, yes, every championship takes luck even if it is in the form of hey, we really did hit on those prospects.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night

Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:

The 2015 Royals suck imo

Disagree. But, what we can agree on is that 2015 teams from Texas suck and deserve to be laughed at.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
Yeah, a two year commitment to a slightly below average player for a team that will probably be in the basement. Like... so?

Edit: less exciting than picking up Carlos Santana and Mike Minor, but also maybe less inexplicable.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
This is nuts. Harper is totally on pace for the hall of fame. He is turning 28 and has between 33 and 36 WAR accumulated depending on whose metric you prefer. But a lot of that is all one year you say. Fine, it's an amazing year. He also just put up between 1.5 and 1.9 WAR in 60 games. Which is like a 5 WAR pace. Not incredible, but very good. He walked a ton this year. He always walks a ton, but he had the best walk rate of his career this year (and his best strikeout rate to go with it! First time he has ever walked more than K'ed) and it lead him to a 151 wRC+ for the year. Shortened season, but still. Point is, dude is a really good hitter. Not 197 wRC+ good, that year was nuts. But very good! Looking at hall of fame right fielders that have been inducted in the 21st century, the only one with a higher OPS+ through 27 is Vlad. Harper beats out Gwynn, Walker, Dawson, and Winfield. (Beats most in WAR too, though he has two additional years on most.)

Point here is that I don't see any reason to believe the original claim that he is just going to put up 3 WAR years the rest of his career.

And beyond being a good hitter statistically, as people have said, he is recognizable. Not only that, as far as *narrative* goes, he's got an MVP, and RoY, and 5 all-star games already. He is liable to put up another MVP year. And he will likely continue being a perennial all-star.

Harper is on track. He isn't on track to be the inner circle guy people projected, but he is totally on track for the hall.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
gently caress it, I am going on the record with a totally unscientific, pulling things out my rear end, prediction for Harper's career numbers. When he retires let's see how wrong I was.

I am going with ~74 career WAR, ~1500 walks, a hair under 500 homeruns, and ~2300 hits.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night

Shiroc posted:

Since I started the whole Bryce Harper thing, when I said good not great was mostly a reflection on how when I got back into baseball, it was always TROUT OR HARPER?! Now Trout is firmly, absolutely much better than Harper, there are other players consistently or year to year better than Harper. Going by bwar right at the moment, Harper is tied with Kyle Seager. Obviously Seager is tailing off already and Harper has a ton of time left but Seager's prime years were more consistently high than Harper's were to date.

Seager was a good player in his prime, absolutely a valuable player to have, a local star but not really someone you'd think of as a great. If Harper puts up his current average numbers his whole career, you'd be less likely to be like "how the gently caress does he not have more playoff games or championships?" that we do for Trout. Nothing about how pay or whatever, I'm glad he got paid for being a solid, valuable, good right fielder.

Talking about Harper as the biggest st ar in baseball seems like a weird holdover from half a decade ago. It would absolutely seem like Betts, Judge, or maybe Lindor (especially on the Mets. He already does national commercials) would be well past him.

This comp makes no sense because it totally ignores what Harper's skill set actually is. Kyle Seager's career best OBP is literally 28 points below Harper's average OBP. I don't expect them to age similarly.

I think the Harper in people's brains right now has really been hurt by some things that are tricking us when we skim his bref page. He was bad in 2018. Then he had a slump to start 2019 that I think cemented that in people's brains as a bad year even when it wasn't. Then 2020, in which he was quite good--not Betts good, but quite good--was a weird zombie season.

Plus, he might also be perpetually unlucky. The last time his wOBA was over his xwOBA was 2017. His 2020 xBA, xSLG, xwOBA, and Hard Hit% were all his best since 2015. As in they were all better than his crazy monster year. Seriously, I know he has been a bit disappointing. And I know the projections don't like him for 2021 either. But I think Bryce Harper has a serious shot at breaking-out for another monster year.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night

Penisaurus Sex posted:

It'd be insane for Harper to get anywhere near his peak year again.

There are 7 living players who touched the 200 OPS+ barrier*, and only one of them ever broke through more than once (guess who). Trout has been over 180 twice and over 190 once (198).

Harper hit 198 in 2015 but his career will probably be around the 140-145 OPS+ barrier. Should be a HOFer combined with notoriety and name recognition, but I think there's almost no chance he ever breaks 190 OPS+ in a season again.

*: Soto last year did it but idk if you'd consider it 'real'.

Yeah maybe I should define monster year, because you are right I don't think he comes close to 198 again. But over this shortened season he put up 157 with arguably bad luck. So yeah, with some good luck I think it is possible that he could spike and sniff if not touch 170 again.

Edit: These conversations are always a little frustrating to me. The last time the Royals had a right-fielder put up even 4 WAR was Jermaine Dye in 2000. Granted, Gordon had a good peak in left, and Cain was loving electric in center. But yeah, I would loooove it if my team could have Harper for 25 million a year. Sign me up.

alpha_destroy fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jan 12, 2021

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
It Beltre isn't first ballot than the BBWAA has seriously lost the plot.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
Chris Sale has an all-time record. It is one people probably don't really care that much about, and he might lose it as he ages. But point is, I think Sale is more likely than not to make it. But yeah, he needs some good years.

/\/\/\ drat you bawfuls! :argh:

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night

Popete posted:

Anyone looking for some baseball, the Dominican League finals are going on right now. Carlos Martinez is starting for Aguilas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAct41Kmldo

Edit: Ronald Guzman (whose batting .588) just annihilated a pitch from Martinez, lol

Edit Edit: back 2 back jacks no one out in the 1st, Martinez is getting hammered.

Nice outfield assist to get to tying run at third.

Edit: lol, the next batter tied it anyway with a totally off balance looper.

alpha_destroy fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jan 17, 2021

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
Trump's dumb garden statue list got revealed and Cy Young is getting a statue lmao. So is Ruth and Clemente, those those are less funny to me than Young. I wonder if there are any other baseball players set to be put in that ridiculous shrine.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
Good for Springer. The Man in White will help Springer keep his productivity level I'm sure.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
Royals continuing their reunion tour, giving Wade Davis a minor league deal

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
I'm not gonna argue that Ty Cobb was a good person. But saying as Cobb threw out a first pitch at a Detroit Stars game and said that Black players should be allowed to play professionally. I think it might actually be possible that Curt Schilling is the bigger racist. So like, yeah. gently caress him.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
I'm usually on board with the character clause being nonsense. Especially considering who it comes from. But uh... gently caress Schilling. If he is so important to baseball history that we just can't tell the story of the game without him then at least wait til he is dead to put him in so we don't have to listen to him.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night

GalacticAcid posted:

Lol yeah I get that but that’s different than saying in the abstract “supporting the overthrow of the US government” is bad

Exactly. Trying to install a fascist regime should be what gets you disqualified. You're a commie, an anarchist, or really devoted to land back? I think we can find some wiggle room.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
Holy poo poo, how is he already a free agent? Clearly I don't pay enough attention to the NL.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
I swear to God. And I know my favorite team has the worst record since the day I was born, but still, the Rockies have to be the worst run org in baseball. Nothing they do ever makes any loving sense.

Edit: and I know the Pirates exist too. But I still think the Rockies are worse. The Rockies actually try to win sometimes.

alpha_destroy fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jan 30, 2021

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night

abelwingnut posted:

am i crazy thinking arenado is overvalued? yes, you make this deal if you're stl--no question. and it makes them the favorite in the central this season. but dude's been having some shoulder issues and isn't young. furthermore, aren't his away stats pretty average?

again, he's great, and that deal is absurd. but i don't see him being this crazy force for years to come. too much mileage, and i'm not sure his road stats support him being a superstar in a new park.

Yes you are crazy. His fWARs since 2015 have been 4.5, 5.0, 5.7. 5.8, 6.0, .9 (pandemic year). You can't ask for more than that. And as for his away splits, I would have figured DJLM would have already shown how unreliable an assessment method that is. Not only do Rockies players have to adjust to and from thin air, their away splits are also naturally repressed compared to other NL players, why? Cause they don't get to play away games at Coors lol.

So yeah. Injury concern yeah. But Arenado is absolutely top tier third basemen. He is tied with Rendon in fWAR since 2015. (Tied for third among third basemen in that time frame.)

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night

abelwingnut posted:

...ok? yes, he put up great numbers in a park basically made for him. a guy that loves to pull a la tulo. new busch isn't bad for that, but it is nowhere near as helpful for that righty pull approach. not at all.

furthermore, you cannot use lemahieu as any sort of corroboration. he moved to a park EVEN MORE hitter friendly, and especially more friendly to lemahieu's opposite way approach, than coors. like...he is the ideal right-handed batter for new yankee stadium.

and still, i think the persistent shoulder injury is of the utmost concern. no hitter ever does well with that. ever.

His career OPS at Busch is .848. That's pretty good! That with good defense is pretty excellent! Like yeah. The injury is the biggest source of concern. I'm with you there. But Arenado is definitely a top tier third baseman. That's all I'm saying.

Edit: yes I know the sample size there is small but :shrug:.

alpha_destroy fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jan 31, 2021

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
Deadening the ball so we have more balls in play is very strange to me. Lowering the home run rate while maintaining the strikeout rate is not going to make the game more interesting. And I'm afraid that's exactly what will happen.

I'm not in favor of deadening the ball unless it is in addition to another change. Cracking down on foreign substances. Lowering the mound. Moving the mound. Tightening the zone. Whatever. But messing with the ball alone isn't enough imo.

Edit: also, no casual fan i know has complained about homeruns. Some have complained about strikeouts. But not homeruns.

alpha_destroy fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Feb 9, 2021

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
Can't remember if it was one of my OOTP saves or one of my MLB saves. But some save had Benintendi to the Royals. Saying as I can't remember, I'd hazard a guess a guess it didn't end well.

Edit: somehow both my recent OOTPs and MLB franchises ended up with Eduardo Rodriguez on the Royals. That's been mostly disappointing in both cases. So I guess I need to stop trading with the Red Sox.

alpha_destroy fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Feb 11, 2021

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night

bewbies posted:

I was pretty high on Khalil Lee, my initial impression is that's too much to give up for 2 years of possibly declining benintendi

Same... most likely result i think is still that this is moving a bunch of inconsequential people around. But yeah, i think Lee is probably an overpay anyway.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night

GoatSeeGuy posted:

Hopefully we see more of this, along with players like Ian Happ breaking down the “You didn’t lose 8 billion dollars, you just made 2 instead of the 10 you were counting on” bullshit this year. Owners, and the boot polish aficionados all over The Athletic, MLB Network, ESPN, etc. will be spreading their message of greedy players, civic duty, crying poor, etc all year heading into the CBA negotiations and historically players have been pretty quiet.

I know it’s unlikely, but this may actually be best political climate for players since the mid 70’s. They’d better take advantage.

I think you are right that this is the best climate they've had in awhile. And while ESPN et al will carry water for the league, I've been pretty hopeful seeing the amount of poo poo, say, Jeff Passan gets everytime he launders the league's talking points for them.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night

bawfuls posted:

Top level baseball requires a lot of development to sustain the high level of play we all enjoy. As long as that is the case, MLB should be paying directly for this development, not pawning it off on other entities like indy ball teams or colleges.

It is Bad, Actually that the NBA and NFL get free development of their players from the college system. The quality of their product relies directly on these development pipelines, and they should be sharing the profits with those players during development.

This is a great post. As is your other one about organizational filler players being totally necessary and therefore deserving of fair pay.

I just also want to add that MLB supporting a robust minor league system is good for the longterm health of game as it gives more fans more robust access to professional baseball which is, you know, important since young fans are future players.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
Reminds me of the harebrained scheme someone on Effectively Wild had that MLB should do a Gillette and should just send every 8 yr old a glove on their birthday.

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night

KICK BAMA KICK posted:

Curious -- did Gillette used to send all like 13 year old boys razors or something?

18th birthday but yeah. My brother got one for sure. Can't remember if I did...

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alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
Bernard Sanders says you can't have his beloved Lake Monsters: https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1360367867557007361?s=19

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