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Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


Sash! posted:

Yet, this one has been strip mined for every possible tidbit to introduce into the new canon!

The Knights of Ren have yet to say "I bid you dark greetings" so no, they have not been stripped clean just yet

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Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



AdmiralViscen posted:

I’m pretty sure that in some comic book it is revealed that Han was broke and traded it to her for another round of drinks like 10 years ago and she hung on to it to give to chewie in that moment

Close - Leia died holding Han's medal. The one Maz gave Chewie was Luke's, which she had because Han stole it from him and used it to pay his tab at her bar.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Vinylshadow posted:

The Knights of Ren have yet to say "I bid you dark greetings" so no, they have not been stripped clean just yet

I mean we ticked every other box on the Jedi Prince score card with The Rise of Skywalker, ie: Emperor Palpatine's grandchild goes on a galaxy-spanning wild goose chase to try and stop some weirdo obsessed with becoming the next Darth Vader by tracking down and collecting Things You Might Remember From Star Wars with the help of Han, Leia, Luke, Chewie, Lando, and the droids. Highlights include our heroes crashing a festival on a desert planet, and an actual Mofference.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001




I'm reasonably sure just two planets that were first mentioned in a 90s EU novel have come up in TPM, AOTC, ROTS, Solo, Rogue One, TFA, TLJ, and ROS: Coruscant and Dathomir. You've got Nightsisters running all over the place. I swear, if Mando Season 3 mentions Zaarin, I'm just assuming every part of The Courtship of Princess Leia happened.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





Vinylshadow posted:

The Knights of Ren have yet to say "I bid you dark greetings" so no, they have not been stripped clean just yet

The Renference was a hoot, I tell ya what

Prince Myshkin
Jun 17, 2018


sticklefifer posted:

I feel like every society in the galaxy building their own knockoff Death Star is something that would totally happen. Like the excuse would totally be "we need it for defense" but then you'd get rural planet dictators using their lovely off-brand Orbital Murder Cannon™ (original content do not steal) to keep their own people in line.

The Galactic Empire causing large-scale proliferation of doomsday weapons while being the only political entity to use one on a populated area would certainly make it harder for people to deny its similarities to the United States.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Vinylshadow posted:

Then there's that one weird backwater planet whose evil dictator decides to make one that looks like his face and it keeps getting blown up by animals

Venom?

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Sanguinia posted:

The Renference was a hoot, I tell ya what

The Knights of Ren are also so edgy that every greeting is a dark greeting by default.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000






CAN'T LET YOU DO THAT, STAR FOX!

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Sanguinia posted:

The Renference was a hoot, I tell ya what


nine-gear crow posted:

The Knights of Ren are also so edgy that every greeting is a dark greeting by default.

And now I can't help but think of Ren as some kind of kewl shortening of Renaissance and they're just LARPers.

Spookydonut
Sep 13, 2010

"Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

skasion posted:

Chewie dying was not executed terribly, but it came from a bad conceptual direction where they were very invested in marking out the NJO books as serious edgy mature Star Wars for grownups.

I would much rather they killed Chewie than subjected me to those three books later in NJO that are literally just “remember Black Fleet Crisis? No? Ok how about Truce at Bakura”

Don't forget Anakin Solo's stupid death.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.


Spookydonut posted:

Don't forget Anakin Solo's stupid death.

Wasn’t Ganner Rhysode’s in the same book? Nothing says “serious edgy Star Wars FOR ADULTS” like senselessly killing off half the Next Gen cast you’ve been building up for the last decade.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


Slashrat posted:

I also thought the thread that followed from that with Han Solo dealing with the grief of losing his oldest friend made for an interesting story.

Yeah, I liked that Han was portrayed as not just having trouble coming to terms with Chewbacca's death in general, but that he specifically felt resentful at his son for Chewbacca's death since Chewbacca chose to save Han's son over his own life. Feelings which Han knew were stupid and misplaced, if I recall, but that he still felt regardless. It's the kind of conflicting emotional fallout that plagues a lot of people when grieving. I remember liking the co-pilot alien dude he ended up falling in with during that period too, though I barely remember any details of him now; just that I liked that he saw Han was hurting and needed help and was basically "screw your griping, we buds now".

skasion posted:

Chewie dying was not executed terribly, but it came from a bad conceptual direction where they were very invested in marking out the NJO books as serious edgy mature Star Wars for grownups.

I never took it as being used to mark the books as serious/edgy/mature Star Wars for serious/edgy/mature adults (though I suppose I wouldn't have, given I was still a teen at the time), but as just setting up that anyone can die using the most disposable character of the original trilogy (when you don't have to worry about actors). Which, the two interpretations are pretty close and certainly not mutually exclusive, but it definitely set up the feeling for me that even the core cast were in more danger within those books. It's not necessary by any stretch, but it is nice when the danger feels more tangible. The fact Anakin died a while later does serve to reinforce that feeling I'd imagine, though I had stopped reading anyway by that point. He also apparently only died because Anakin Skywalker was now one of main characters of the Prequel Trilogy, so Lucasarts (or whichever division handled the books) didn't want two lead characters named Anakin at the same time, rather than because it was a planned part of the narrative. They were originally setting him up to be the hero of that set of books (i.e. the New Jedi Order).

tsob fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Feb 23, 2021

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


Big Mean Jerk posted:

Wasn’t Ganner Rhysode’s in the same book? Nothing says “serious edgy Star Wars FOR ADULTS” like senselessly killing off half the Next Gen cast you’ve been building up for the last decade.

No. Anakin dies in Star by Star, which is also the one where they lose Coruscant. Ganner dies in Traitor. Ganner was also created specifically for NJO, probably mostly so that they could get him killed later on, so there’s hardly anything to complain about there.

Anakin dying was fairly poorly handled. The book where it happens fumbled it, he just kind of dies unceremoniously of attritional injuries mid book, it’s not even the climax of the story really. And because they were originally planning to kill off Jacen instead there’s a bunch of foreshadowing in the earlier NJO books that doesn’t go anywhere. That said, I don’t think the idea of it was necessarily off limits, and some of the better writers did more interesting things with him being dead than anyone did with him alive. He was a fairly boring character tbh.

Slashrat
Jun 6, 2011

YOSPOS


tsob posted:

Yeah, I liked that Han was portrayed as not just having trouble coming to terms with Chewbacca's death in general, but that he specifically felt resentful at his son for Chewbacca's death since Chewbacca chose to save Han's son over his own life. Feelings which Han knew were stupid and misplaced, if I recall, but that he still felt regardless. It's the kind of conflicting emotional fallout that plagues a lot of people when grieving. I remember liking the co-pilot alien dude he ended up falling in with during that period too, though I barely remember any details of him now; just that I liked that he saw Han was hurting and needed help and was basically "screw your griping, we buds now".

I remember liking the Ryn co-pilot too, though I'm not sure how the overall Ryn-as-Space-Romani analogy would hold up on reading today vs. when I was a clueless teen.

skasion posted:

Anakin dying was fairly poorly handled. The book where it happens fumbled it, he just kind of dies unceremoniously of attritional injuries mid book, it’s not even the climax of the story really. And because they were originally planning to kill off Jacen instead there’s a bunch of foreshadowing in the earlier NJO books that doesn’t go anywhere. That said, I don’t think the idea of it was necessarily off limits, and some of the better writers did more interesting things with him being dead than anyone did with him alive. He was a fairly boring character tbh.

It could probably have been handled better, but I still think it worked for the atmosphere of that plot thread in the book. The entire strike team plot really sold the feeling that this was a grueling suicide mission where the casualties weren't the result of any single thing that might have been avoided, but just the inevitable consequence of mounting exhaustion.

Slashrat fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Feb 23, 2021

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


Slashrat posted:

I remember liking the Ryn co-pilot too, though I'm not sure how the overall Ryn-as-Space-Romani analogy would hold up on reading today vs. when I was a clueless teen.

not too well probably. the most you can say for the Ryn is that they're a well intended gypsy stereotype. (un?)fortunately they got dropped immediately after NJO was done and basically never appear again

Captain Splendid
Jan 7, 2009

Qu'en pense Caffarelli?

skasion posted:



Anakin dying was fairly poorly handled. The book where it happens fumbled it, he just kind of dies unceremoniously of attritional injuries mid book, it’s not even the climax of the story really. And because they were originally planning to kill off Jacen instead there’s a bunch of foreshadowing in the earlier NJO books that doesn’t go anywhere.

George said

"Nooo you can't have two Anakins be the focus of the story people will get all confused!"

Spookydonut
Sep 13, 2010

"Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Big Mean Jerk posted:

Wasn’t Ganner Rhysode’s in the same book? Nothing says “serious edgy Star Wars FOR ADULTS” like senselessly killing off half the Next Gen cast you’ve been building up for the last decade.

Ganner had excellent character development and his death was the culmination of him setting aside his ego to be the actual hero he was trying really hard to make everyone think he was when he is first introduced.

Anakin's death is just so contrived and dumb then it's used as justification for Jaina to turn to the dark side for a bit.

Although they kind of hosed with his character in NJO because before then he had autism then suddenly in NJO he doesn't. I thought his autism was a neat bit of representation for kids that would have read the junior jedi knight books.

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011




Robot Style posted:

Close - Leia died holding Han's medal. The one Maz gave Chewie was Luke's, which she had because Han stole it from him and used it to pay his tab at her bar.

This is worse!

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Spookydonut posted:

Anakin's death is just so contrived and dumb then it's used as justification for Jaina to turn to the dark side for a bit.

Which in turn leads to Jaina to seek out the best Jedi killer EVER to kill her brother... Boba Fett. (The correct response being "How? When?")

Epi Lepi
Oct 29, 2009

You can hear the voice
Telling you to Love
It's the voice of MK Ultra
And you're doing what it wants


The only NJO book I liked was the one where Anakin is forced to trek through the jungle with a Vong. I also somehow read that one before most of the rest and going back to the beginning of NJO killed my interest in the series.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


Captain Splendid posted:

George said

"Nooo you can't have two Anakins be the focus of the story people will get all confused!"

Oh yeah, there was the Knightfall Trilogy where the Vong basically say "Give us Jedi" and the Galaxy responds by "But what if we kill Jedi so the Vong will go away since they won't be able to get what they want?"

Some elements still made it into the Edge of Victory duology regardless (namely Jedi killing)

Also there was a continuation of C-3PO's whole droid sentience thing that began back in Agents of Chaos I: Hero's Trial due to the Vong's treatment of droids, but was then basically dropped due to the cancelation

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


Epi Lepi posted:

The only NJO book I liked was the one where Anakin is forced to trek through the jungle with a Vong. I also somehow read that one before most of the rest and going back to the beginning of NJO killed my interest in the series.

This one’s fairly good (Edge of Victory iirc). That one and Traitor are the only two books from NJO I remember mostly favorably

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


Dawgstar posted:

Which in turn leads to Jaina to seek out the best Jedi killer EVER to kill her brother... Boba Fett. (The correct response being "How? When?")

Nah, there’s a lot of stuff in between the incredibly half assed Dark Jaina poo poo in NJO and her killing Jacen. There had to be, so Karen Traviss would have time to write books in which Boba Fett actually did anything to back up his reputation

Red Warrior
Jul 23, 2002
Is about to die!

God I remember moving house about 9 years ago and looking at the pile of NJO books and looking at the pile of books going to the thrift store and just moving the NJO books to that pile, and I haven't ever regretted that. I remember the broad strokes, but frankly I'm not totally sure if I ever actually finished that series. I was reading them out of boredom and almost some sense of obligation to keep going.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


Red Warrior posted:

God I remember moving house about 9 years ago and looking at the pile of NJO books and looking at the pile of books going to the thrift store and just moving the NJO books to that pile, and I haven't ever regretted that. I remember the broad strokes, but frankly I'm not totally sure if I ever actually finished that series. I was reading them out of boredom and almost some sense of obligation to keep going.

Yup. There’s way too many of them and snaring people with sunk cost was surely the publishers’ hope.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





skasion posted:

Nah, there’s a lot of stuff in between the incredibly half assed Dark Jaina poo poo in NJO and her killing Jacen. There had to be, so Karen Traviss would have time to write books in which Boba Fett actually did anything to back up his reputation

That was during the time Traviss and the other main NJO guy were essentially having slap-fights in their novels, where one would write something and then the other who would write something for the express purpose of saying "nuh uh," right?"

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


Dawgstar posted:

That was during the time Traviss and the other main NJO guy were essentially having slap-fights in their novels, where one would write something and then the other who would write something for the express purpose of saying "nuh uh," right?"

I never paid enough attention to the fandom to follow the slap fight precisely, but I reread the Legacy of the Force stuff lately and there are some fairly obvious moments of Traviss textually rolling her eyes at Troy Denning’s inability to characterize women

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012

Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.




Wedge Regret

The Traviss-Troy Denning crap was the post-NJO series, Legacy of the Force. IIRC, Denning only did two or three stand alone books in the NJO, while Traviss did a single short story or something like that.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





Sounds like a lot of card carrying members of THE TALIFAN in this discussion!

(I do like the broad outline of the Darth Caedus storyline, but drat were the actual books pretty bad)

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




skasion posted:

I never paid enough attention to the fandom to follow the slap fight precisely, but I reread the Legacy of the Force stuff lately and there are some fairly obvious moments of Traviss textually rolling her eyes at Troy Denning’s inability to characterize women

The same Karen Traviss who put underage rape and forced pregnancy camps in Gears of War?

GATOS Y VATOS
Aug 22, 2002



what the gently caress

Mywhatacleanturtle
Jul 23, 2006



Ghost Leviathan posted:

The same Karen Traviss who put underage rape and forced pregnancy camps in Gears of War?

Which one was that in, because that feels like something I would remember.

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!


Oven Wrangler

Mywhatacleanturtle posted:

Which one was that in, because that feels like something I would remember.

It's in the books

https://gearsofwar.fandom.com/wiki/Birthing_Creche

Captain Splendid
Jan 7, 2009

Qu'en pense Caffarelli?

Sanguinia posted:


(I do like the broad outline of the Darth Caedus storyline, but drat were the actual books pretty bad)

The opening book was great.

The second was the first Traviss book I read and it was ok,.

Then I read the third and realised "Oh no, Denning's going to be the one to conclude this."

Hazo
Dec 30, 2004

SCIENCE





Vinylshadow posted:

The Knights of Ren have yet to say "I bid you dark greetings" so no, they have not been stripped clean just yet

It's been quite a few years but I don't think that was Courtship.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


Hazo posted:

It's been quite a few years but I don't think that was Courtship.

It was not, but the line does come from a book about the courtship of Princess Leia, to be fair

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001




I bailed out of the NJO books when Ithor was destroyed. How many in was that?

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.


Sash! posted:

I bailed out of the NJO books when Ithor was destroyed. How many in was that?

Dark Tide II according to wookieepedia, so three books in.

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Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Wasn't NJO like 20 books, in which the humans and Jedi get constantly trashed by the Yuuhzan Vong for 17-18 of them? I'd say that was kinda pushing it a little.

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Feb 23, 2021

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