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skasion posted:Alien xenophobes attack the republic and lose. Also Luke spends a bunch of time hanging out with some lady who claims she knew his mom (she didn’t). Don’t forget that Lando, C-3PO and Lobot follow some weird colony/ark ship that’s been wandering around the galaxy in a plot thread that doesn’t connect to anything at all if I remember right.
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Feb 25, 2021 16:45
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Vintersorg posted:Zahn was able to actually write the characters and make them sound like they were from the movies. I got whiplash after reading the Zahn trilogy to Kevin J Anderson and everyone who spoke was from a different universe. counterpoint: no matter what author writes him lando is always lando.
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Feb 25, 2021 18:09
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The Last Call posted:I'm not even a fan of Ashoka and thought it was seriously a character assassination job that made no sense. But again, Traviss was an author with a major beef with all things Jedi/Sith/Force users. She really went down a rabbit hole on that, her feud with Denning was only a part of it. You really got to do something bad or act in a certain way for the publisher of the novels at the time to kick you to the curb and cancel everything that was coming up but she picked fights everywhere and paid for it. She was a Gina situation long before Gina was a Gina issue. The weird thing about Traviss is that I saw quite a bit of praise online for her initially when she started, because she was fleshing out the clones in ways no-one else was doing and then a few years later almost nothing but criticism because she was fleshing out the Mandalorians at the expense of pretty much everything else. I've never even read any of her books to know how accurate either assessment is, but it's quite a striking turn around in perception. Then again, I suppose Lucas himself generated much the same about face before and after the prequels. I did save a lengthy breakdown someone linked me to years ago of her at the time latest book, Revelations, which makes mention of some of the forum arguments she was getting in to and it doesn't sound pretty. tsob fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Feb 25, 2021 |
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Feb 25, 2021 18:25
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Traviss has a general obsession (almost a fetish) with the concept of a cult of ancient warriors with their own creed, history, language, deep bonds between brothers, etc. It works for the clones because of the Mandalorian backing, but she got to the point where she was actively writing the Jedi in a negative light to make her clone commandos even cooler and more important. This obviously didn't sit well with other writers who didn't interpret Jedi the way she did, and she became aggressive with criticism online.
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Feb 25, 2021 18:43
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tsob posted:The weird thing about Traviss is that I saw quite a bit of praise online for her initially when she started, because she was fleshing out the clones in ways no-one else was doing and then a few years later almost nothing but criticism because she was fleshing out the Mandalorians at the expense of pretty much everything else. I've never even read any of her books to know how accurate either assessment is, but it's quite a striking turn around in perception. Then again, I suppose Lucas himself generated much the same about face before and after the prequels. I did save a lengthy breakdown someone linked me to years ago of her at the time latest book, Revelations, which makes mention of some of the forum arguments she was getting in to and it doesn't sound pretty. She was quite beloved, at first. People loved her novels about the clones when they started off, even I did, I was buying them all since it gave for the time more perspective on the clones/Mandos fleshing them out. Unfortunately the longer she went on and the more she wrote anything featuring the Jedi the more you could tell how much she loathed them. There was no chance she didn't take to put them down. People began to speak about it openly, Traviss really did not take that kindly, she would have the admins and mods delete the post or close the threads, some times ban the person. She had that much sway on the forum people talked on at the time. The turning point came several novels in and the open drama of her and Denning. People read the novels, they saw how they were both fighting on the written page. People questioned things more, and then she ended up coining the term Talifans to describe the fans who weren't praising her any more, the tide had firmly turned against her and began to snowball down at a rapid pace. It just devolved that badly to the point she was told by the powers in be to basically cut the poo poo out. The breakdowns you speak of people made showing what she was doing were vast and many being spread to various communities. Her continual open warring with the fans was kinda a bad look y'know? She had at least one novel in the works, was going to do the guide on warefare if I remember right but things had reached a point of no return so she was shitcanned and everything she worked on cancelled. It wasn't worth keeping her on. So yeah, it wasn't pretty, like at all. It was a true fall from grace.
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Feb 25, 2021 20:22
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tsob posted:The weird thing about Traviss is that I saw quite a bit of praise online for her initially when she started, because she was fleshing out the clones in ways no-one else was doing and then a few years later almost nothing but criticism because she was fleshing out the Mandalorians at the expense of pretty much everything else. I've never even read any of her books to know how accurate either assessment is, but it's quite a striking turn around in perception. Then again, I suppose Lucas himself generated much the same about face before and after the prequels. I did save a lengthy breakdown someone linked me to years ago of her at the time latest book, Revelations, which makes mention of some of the forum arguments she was getting in to and it doesn't sound pretty. There's a reason I dropped that reference to THE TALIFAN a few posts back. That whole saga was so ugly as it was happening that I caught wind of it and I hadn't even picked up a Star Wars novel in like 8 years, let alone been involved in the online community. Real car crash stuff.
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Feb 25, 2021 20:28
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Sanguinia posted:There's a reason I dropped that reference to THE TALIFAN a few posts back. That whole saga was so ugly as it was happening that I caught wind of it and I hadn't even picked up a Star Wars novel in like 8 years, let alone been involved in the online community. Real car crash stuff. It was more like an airplane crashing into a car crash and flipping into an explosives factory.
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Feb 25, 2021 21:01
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If you aren't aware of it and stick to the Republic Commando books it's not that obvious. By the end the Jedi being shits is pretty clearly the case, but not so badly as to be dramatically outside how Clone Wars presented them at the end really.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:34
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Arquinsiel posted:If you aren't aware of it and stick to the Republic Commando books it's not that obvious. By the end the Jedi being shits is pretty clearly the case, but not so badly as to be dramatically outside how Clone Wars presented them at the end really. How Clone Wars did things and how Traviss wrote things were very two different things. Again, there's a reason why she got canned.
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Feb 25, 2021 23:16
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Didn’t she flip out when Clone Wars showed a pacifist Mandalorian culture not ruled by a Mandalore who were tying to distance themselves from the warrior heritage that nearly destroyed their people and did practically destroy their world?
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Feb 25, 2021 23:30
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Yeah, she had some very spicy takes on that.
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Feb 25, 2021 23:33
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Didn’t she flip out when Clone Wars showed a pacifist Mandalorian culture not ruled by a Mandalore who were tying to distance themselves from the warrior heritage that nearly destroyed their people and did practically destroy their world? Oh boy did she ever.
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Feb 25, 2021 23:42
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How DARE you not make this planet a homogenous monoculture?! HOW! DARE! YOU! (see its funny because there's at least four or five flavors of the Mandalorian Warrior Culture that I can think of off the top of my head alone)
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Feb 25, 2021 23:45
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Look, it’s a lot harder to write personal fetish material about NOBLE WARRIORS when they’re actually just left-wing pacifist LOSERS, okay?
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Feb 25, 2021 23:47
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Look, it’s a lot harder to write personal fetish material about NOBLE WARRIORS when they’re actually just left-wing pacifist LOSERS, okay?  Replace Duke with Mandalorian.
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Feb 25, 2021 23:50
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Vintersorg posted:Zahn was able to actually write the characters and make them sound like they were from the movies. I got whiplash after reading the Zahn trilogy to Kevin J Anderson and everyone who spoke was from a different universe. He was also able to introduce new characters (Thrawn/Mara Jade) that believably fit into the universe and ended becoming somewhat iconic themselves. Thrawn is a thing in Disney canon now. And maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there, but it seems like Ahsoka Tano owes a few things to Mara Jade in terms of inspiration and personality.
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Feb 25, 2021 23:56
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I remember seeing a video of a press conference for Fate of the Jedi and someone asked how writing it was going to be different from Legacy of the Force and Aaron Allston said something like: "Well, none of us in love with Boba Fett, so there's that."
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Feb 26, 2021 00:02
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Everyone posted:He was also able to introduce new characters (Thrawn/Mara Jade) that believably fit into the universe and ended becoming somewhat iconic themselves. Thrawn is a thing in Disney canon now. And maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there, but it seems like Ahsoka Tano owes a few things to Mara Jade in terms of inspiration and personality. They're probably the two most iconic characters from the Legacy Expanded Universe. At least sticking just to books. If you include games you get some characters people might argue for, like Kyle Katarn or HK-47. I'm not sure there even any other book specific characters from any other author that are particularly beloved. Not that some of them weren't fun at times (i.e. under the right author), but I don't think any other book characters come close to being as memorable as either Mara Jade or Thrawn. And Mara Jade is mostly memorable because she was built over decades of novels, comics etc. by other authors. Thrawn really just had that one trilogy for years, and it set him so hard in people's imagination that he became as essential to the setting in a lot of people's minds as any of the original trilogy characters. Along with the Chiss themselves, to some degree. I'm not even a big fan of the character, but he kind of outshines everyone else in the expanded universe books by quite a bit. tsob fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Feb 26, 2021 |
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Feb 26, 2021 00:42
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tsob posted:They're probably the two most iconic characters from the Legacy Expanded Universe. At least sticking just to books. If you include games you get some characters people might argue for, like Kyle Katarn or HK-47. Meanwhile Dash Rendar is just right loving there.
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Feb 26, 2021 00:46
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People dissing Corran Horn over here. Also I would argue that Wedge was de-facto "invented," in the EU, since he was a non-character before those books.
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Feb 26, 2021 01:46
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Corran sucks  Wedge is the better pilot character and Kyle Katarn is the better Jedi character. Also Corran was a cop before anything else, so
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Feb 26, 2021 01:54
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Corran sucks In my head Wedge is also the reason Poe was always the "best pilot in the Resistance" rather than the best pilot. Everyone knew not to gently caress with Wedge. I really wish they'd had him in an X-Wing instead of the turret on the Falcon in the last movie.
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Feb 26, 2021 02:15
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Sanguinia posted:People dissing Corran Horn over here. Kind of. Wedge is in all three of the Original trilogy of films. He's the only other survivor of the Death Star group from A New Hope. He and a gun were the first speeder to take out an AT-AT in Empire and he was one of Lando's gunners in taking out Death Star II in Return of the Jedi. If Disney wants to blow money on series, let them blow some on Wedge and a bunch of fellow X-wingers blowing the poo poo out of various Imperial remant types after RotJ. Meanwhile, I kind of wish that Mara Jade would show up in Disney canon just so I don't have to read this thread or the eventual Ahsoka thread with you guys posting Tweets from twits wondering "But when are Luke and Ahsoka gonna meet and/or gently caress?"
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Feb 26, 2021 02:25
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Everyone posted:
Hopefully this is what the Rogue Squadron movie ends up being.
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Feb 26, 2021 03:00
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I want a series where it starts with old Wedge is sitting on a couch Al Bundy style telling us he is the one that survived two Death Star runs and not that #@! Jedi. 
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Feb 26, 2021 03:05
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Luke survived two death star runs, he was just inside one of them
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Feb 26, 2021 04:11
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Sanguinia posted:Also I would argue that Wedge was de-facto "invented," in the EU, since he was a non-character before those books. I disagree. Wedge was part of playground lore like Vader eating it in a volcano before the books.
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Feb 26, 2021 04:40
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Vader having been roasted by lava is from the novelization of ROTJ originally, iirc.
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Feb 26, 2021 05:02
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Luke survived two death star runs, he was just inside one of them Well, the second one wasn't so much a Death Star run as him running away from the results of somebody else's Death Star run.
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Feb 26, 2021 05:03
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skasion posted:Vader having been roasted by lava is from the novelization of ROTJ originally, iirc. Was Wedge big in the initial novelizations? I could 100% see the kid who wasn't allowed to see Star Wars but could read the novelization glomming onto a minor character in the late '70s and from there the rest is history.
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Feb 26, 2021 05:47
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VinylonUnderground posted:Was Wedge big in the initial novelizations? I could 100% see the kid who wasn't allowed to see Star Wars but could read the novelization glomming onto a minor character in the late '70s and from there the rest is history. It's been like 25 years since I read them but I don't recall Wedge being big. I mostly remember Vader being in his egg and learning how to force heal for like a nano second and being super stoked that he could regen himself and axe the emperor. I think this was in new hope book too.
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Feb 26, 2021 06:19
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Vader chilling in his egg rage healing his lungs was in Shadows of the Empire. Wedge turned up quite often before Rogue Squadron by virtue of being in only non-main character to turn up in all three movies, with dialogue in all of them. He was the foundation on which the EU was laid. The only ascended extra.
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Feb 26, 2021 06:26
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Wedge’s old EU notoriety was like 10% what he did in the OT and 90% his appearances in the X-Wing books, comics, and Rogue Squadron games. And there’s nothing wrong with that, really. For a while he even became a kind of level-headed quasi-Han when the books started to turn actual Han into more of a family-oriented guy. I love old Wedge, that’s why I painted my X-Wing helmet in his color scheme.
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Feb 26, 2021 06:28
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Sash! posted:Vader chilling in his egg rage healing his lungs was in Shadows of the Empire. Shadows of the Empire is well after I was on the playground. I have no idea how the lore got filtered down. I entertained the idea of "older brothers with nerdy friends who read the novelizations" which seems likely for "Vader Volcano" but not likely for "Wedge". My older brother knew who Wedge was and would talk about him in like '86. Granted, I was a kid so there is an unreliable narrator component here since my memory is possibly a fiction. But I never read the books so I can't imagine creating a Wedge character.
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Feb 26, 2021 06:43
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Wedge definitely had an entire issue of the Marvel Star Wars comics dedicated to him. I think that was even before ROTJ, but I need to check. EDIT:  So apparently it came out in autumn of 1983, just around the time when the third and final issue of the ROTJ comics was published. And it fucks up Wedge's backstory six ways to Sunday, but still, an entire issue about Wedge heroics: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_78:_Hoth_Stuff! Dave Syndrome fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Feb 26, 2021 |
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Feb 26, 2021 06:45
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tsob posted:They're probably the two most iconic characters from the Legacy Expanded Universe. At least sticking just to books. If you include games you get some characters people might argue for, like Kyle Katarn or HK-47. I'm not sure there even any other book specific characters from any other author that are particularly beloved. Not that some of them weren't fun at times (i.e. under the right author), but I don't think any other book characters come close to being as memorable as either Mara Jade or Thrawn. And Mara Jade is mostly memorable because she was built over decades of novels, comics etc. by other authors. Thrawn really just had that one trilogy for years, and it set him so hard in people's imagination that he became as essential to the setting in a lot of people's minds as any of the original trilogy characters. Along with the Chiss themselves, to some degree. I'm not even a big fan of the character, but he kind of outshines everyone else in the expanded universe books by quite a bit. While all this is quite true, Zahn also introduced Talon Karrde who did not catch on nearly as well. They can't all be winners. 
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Feb 26, 2021 07:19
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Sash! posted:Vader chilling in his egg rage healing his lungs was in Shadows of the Empire. Huh well I read them both around the same time so I guess I mixed em up. Obi Wan talking about droping Vader into a lava pit happened in the Jedi book as well as saying Owen was his brother. Looking up the novelizations and apparently Leia gave Chewie a medal in the book New Hope. Its Rinaldo fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Feb 26, 2021 |
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Feb 26, 2021 07:22
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nine-gear crow posted:Meanwhile Dash Rendar is just right loving there. Just googled him, and he seems like a dumb chud What's the best book he's in?
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Feb 26, 2021 07:32
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Bust Rodd posted:Honestly the way droids feature so heavily as both ally and antagonist in this show is one of its best features. One of the things that amazed me with Clone Wars was how the battle droids were fleshed out as clearly thinking, feeling beings with cutesy mannerisms who were all the same being gruesomely slaughtered by the heroes onscreen in a kids' show. And yet they were also portrayed as cutesy sadistic monsters who would cheerfully do the same to anyone else, so said slaughter ended up being darkly funny every time.
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Feb 26, 2021 07:34
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BrotherJayne posted:Just googled him, and he seems like a dumb chud I’m pretty sure the only two books he’s in are Shadows of the Empire and Shadow Games, a book that came out right toward the end of the old EU. I remember it being decent but I also used to devour every single EU release, so my taste is almost certainly suspect.
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Feb 26, 2021 08:16
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