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Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Bust Rodd posted:

Mathew McConaughey is a 50 year old Republican from Texas and I’ll see everything he puts out until he drops dead because he knows to keep that poo poo away from his fans.

This. Conservatives are supposed to believe in "the marketplace of ideas," but the stupid ones get pissed when they put their ideas out there and nobody wants to buy them and then they go out of business. Conservatives with brains recognize that nobody likes anything they have to say and thus don't say it. Bing, bong, the system works.

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Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Sash! posted:

Yeah, seventy years ago.

Makes me surprised that modern conservatives don't think that Liberal Hollywood is Fake News since they firmly believe its still 1950

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

John Wick of Dogs posted:

Power Rangers Time Force is pretty good

You are now my new best friend.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

seaborgium posted:

If I remember right, the Sun Crusher just got dumped into a sun didn't it? Like it's armor was unbreakable because it couldn't get away from the explosion in time so the only way to get rid of it was to just dump it in a sun so no one could get it back.

Black Hole I think

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Sash! posted:

I thought it wasn't so much an accusation as an actual fact in both cases.

Daala got shoved into secrecy to sidestep Tarkin getting in trouble for nailing a subordinate and Isard was like "well, yeah, I did. What of it?"

Being the head of the Gestapo because you murdered the previous head of the Gestapo who was also your father has some perks I guess

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Vinylshadow posted:

The Knights of Ren have yet to say "I bid you dark greetings" so no, they have not been stripped clean just yet

The Renference was a hoot, I tell ya what

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~


CAN'T LET YOU DO THAT, STAR FOX!

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Sounds like a lot of card carrying members of THE TALIFAN in this discussion!

(I do like the broad outline of the Darth Caedus storyline, but drat were the actual books pretty bad)

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Baron Von Ghoulosh posted:

I got ya bruh...



I got to do that to a squad of Trandoshans in my first game of the Fantasy Flight Star Wars RPG because of how minion rules work, it was amazing.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

tsob posted:

The weird thing about Traviss is that I saw quite a bit of praise online for her initially when she started, because she was fleshing out the clones in ways no-one else was doing and then a few years later almost nothing but criticism because she was fleshing out the Mandalorians at the expense of pretty much everything else. I've never even read any of her books to know how accurate either assessment is, but it's quite a striking turn around in perception. Then again, I suppose Lucas himself generated much the same about face before and after the prequels. I did save a lengthy breakdown someone linked me to years ago of her at the time latest book, Revelations, which makes mention of some of the forum arguments she was getting in to and it doesn't sound pretty.

There's a reason I dropped that reference to THE TALIFAN a few posts back. That whole saga was so ugly as it was happening that I caught wind of it and I hadn't even picked up a Star Wars novel in like 8 years, let alone been involved in the online community. Real car crash stuff.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

How DARE you not make this planet a homogenous monoculture?!

HOW! DARE! YOU!

(see its funny because there's at least four or five flavors of the Mandalorian Warrior Culture that I can think of off the top of my head alone)

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Big Mean Jerk posted:

Look, it’s a lot harder to write personal fetish material about NOBLE WARRIORS when they’re actually just left-wing pacifist LOSERS, okay?



Replace Duke with Mandalorian.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

People dissing Corran Horn over here.

Also I would argue that Wedge was de-facto "invented," in the EU, since he was a non-character before those books.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Is that the episode where he spends the rest of the time trolling Kermit?

Mark Hammil is Luke's showdancing cousin, did you know?

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Please, CAPTAIN Antilles is my father.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Pro Wrestler Seth Rollins betrayed his fiancé to sleep with an actual nazi but then broke up with that nazi to marry and father a child with Pro Wrestler Becky Lynch. Celebrity relationships are never not weird.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Galaga Galaxian posted:

I always hated the video games making the Y-wing a slow pig. The RotJ production materials put it at roughly as fast and maneuverable as an X-wing! :argh:



What's the problem Han, I thought you said this thing was fast! :smug:

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Bust Rodd posted:

Yeah i'm not saying he doesn't work hard, i'm just saying we can't all expect the same results that celebrities with entire economies based around their looking good can achieve. Yeah, we can all workout every day and not eat garbage, that's not the same thing as having all of your meals planned ahead of time and cooked fresh for you daily by a trained chef the studio provides, who is perfectly up to date on your diet because he's in the same slack as your nutritionist.

What's really impressive is what Pro Wrestlers accomplish without all the machinery that Hollywood employs to make their movie stars hot, since if they're not rich enough to pay for the entire thing on their own dime like a John Cena WWE is too cheap and cruel to help them with it, and they're ALSO on the road in cramped rental cars and lovely hotels all the time and thus cooking their own non-lovely food is closed off to them for a large chunk of the week.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~


YOOOOOOOOOO, that's dope, her storyline in GoT was bad but she's great!

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Cancel Culture doesn't exist, its called "society's values change and there are social consequences if you don't adjust your behavior in response to that." Conservatives don't like the fact that the values they want America to have are going out of business in the Marketplace of Ideas so much like their beloved oil industry and they're trying to demand that they be given an incredibly disproportionate advantage so they don't get completely bankrupted out of the competition.

Also ask a Conservative if they think it was right for Jussie Smolette's career to be obliterated for an alleged crime he was never convicted for and suddenly they'll love cancel culture.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Hazo posted:

also, complaints about the Muppets are dumb as poo poo as well, since the warnings were added when Disney recently worked out the rights and is finally streaming the show on Disney+ (previously it wasn't available for streaming anywhere). So in reality the Muppets are more widely available and "uncancelled" than ever.

Content warnings are even worse than canceling because they denegrate glorious American culture by pandering to SJW and Antifa LIES which criminalize whiteness and maleness! - Something nazis are probably saying somewhere

Remember the Gone With The Wind thing? We literally can't put a content warning on full blown openly-racist Lost Cause propaganda without "defacing an American treasure"

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Snips is good nickname. :colbert:

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

She's snips because she's snippy!

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

I'm glad I stuck Game of Throne out to the end because "A Knight Of The Seven Kingdoms," is one of my favorite hours of television ever and I didn't hate "The Long Night," as much as the internet, which is apparently full of medieval war armchair generals. It could have been better in a couple of specific ways, but I thought it worked pretty well.

Everything after those two episodes was a loving disaster though, as was most of the two seasons prior to them.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Phenotype posted:

Yeah, my take back then was that it was kind of a nuclear war analogy -- some unknown galactic powers fought eachother with an endless supply of clone soldiers and maybe the clones rebelled, and the war got enormous and bloody and awful enough that the technology was banned and destroyed wherever possible. I know nostalgia is everything, but I still think it's weird that the Clone Wars were apparently the point where people stopped using robot armies in favor of human troops, which seems kinda silly after watching a million Terminator movies.

I think its weird that the people named a conflict where the main antagonists were Droids and Seperatists Rebels "The Clone Wars." What the gently caress was George smoking the day he decided that the the Clones in the loving Clone Wars needed to be the good guys? Its the most unintuitive choice imaginable.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

euphronius posted:

Uh ... the clones aren’t fighting for the good guys in the prequels

They're fighting for The Old Republic. The original trilogy explicitly implies that was a golden age, as well as making it fairly clear that Palpatine's propaganda that everything was the Jedi's fault was pretty much not believed since most people don't react negatively when they're brought up. The fact that the Prequels reality doesn't match that doesn't like, undo that that's what we're presented with originally.

The idea that the people looking back fondly on the Republic would name the war that brought it down after the Clone Soldiers that fought to preserve it rather than the Separatists and their Droids that would naturally be blamed for its fall is obviously bizarre and counter-intuitive. Lucas not making them the antagonist force in the conflict is really weird.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

BrotherJayne posted:

Was there ever actually a "golden age"?

No, but when times get bad people do tend to look to times in the past when they were relatively better, or at least appear to be by comparison, or at least reflect your personal values accomplishing something you consider important and want to see reflected in modern times.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Its all Rex, Rex, Rex in the post-66 stuff, I want to know what happened to Cody damnit. I was so sad in that movie when he blew up Obi-Wan right after they were broing it up.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Radio! posted:

I think the scientists tried to kill him and Fives stopped them? But then he ended up dying anyway from the brain damage. And then they killed Fives as a cover up afterwards.


Same, even though I know it's not going to be anything good. :(

That episode was so god drat brutal. Poor Fives...

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Jerkface posted:

Uh good news? Bad Batch and the Obi Wan TV show are going to feature Cody pretty prominently

You "Uh" is making me nervous.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

I think AOTC is kind of underrated, Sith is kind of overrated, and PM is still utter dogshit, what a bad movie in every day god drat.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Frankenstyle posted:

But that's what the scene with him actually piloting a starfighter was there for. To me the podrace plot-line is too forced (heh) and falls apart even under the loosest Star Wars has space wizards logic. Sitting in the theater on opening day telling myself "You like this" I still didn't buy the queens space yacht not having a few million Quatloos in a bug-out bag, or Qui-Gon not having an expense account and a JediMastercard.

My favorite ones from the Plinkett review were always "Why didn't they just trade the Queen's ship for a less fancy, yet functional ship?" and even more importantly "Why didn't they use the Republic Credits to hire a transport ship or smuggler?"

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

jng2058 posted:

...but only if one ignores the sequels.

Which isn't a bad idea, mind you, but if we're looking for examples on screen of the "balance to the Force" idea being wiping away evil Force users, then the existence of Snoak and the Palp clone means the Force didn't stay balanced for more than a year or two, if that.

Palpatine made Snoak, and he made his clone. The only thing that the sequel introduces to the concept of "balance," meaning the destruction of Dark is the idea of escalation. Anakin, The Chosen One, was a response to the threat of Sidious. Sidious was destroyed by Anakin, but also begat a greater evil, so the Force responded by creating Ben and Rey. Light rises to meet Darkness.

(To be fair, this all makes way more sense without Abrams loving everything up with Rise. Palpatine was such a powerful unbalancing element in the force that he cast a pall over the entire galaxy strong enough to dampen the Jedi's ability to see the future. Snoke was just Another Random Darksider, of which there have been many in Star Wars history and has generally not required a Mighty Chosen One for the Force to correct. Kylo Ren, on the other hand, WAS that potential threat to the galaxy, the thing that Rey was raised up to vanquish like Anakin was before her, that was the big twist. But then JJ came back and was like "Nope, Palpatine never even died, who cares about trying to make the Chosen One Prophecy make sense, gently caress everything.")

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

This issue with Grey Jedi as most people conceive of them is less wanting Darkside Powers like Lightning (although that is absolutely the origin) and more the people who want gritty antihero Punisher Jedi. The entire concept is the worst excesses of the Dark Age Of Comics applied to Star Wars. Grey Jedi just means "I don't want my character to be bound by any external morals in their decision making, whether they are evil or not is only down to their personal beliefs." Its every adolescent Dungeons and Dragon's players vision of right and wrong and when they should or should not face consequences for doing whatever stupid thing comes into their head.

In GOOD Star Wars stories, like KOTOR, what Grey Jedi really means is cowardice. Jolee is Grey because he's become so disillusioned by the Jedi and the wars and the dogma and the moral quagmires a Jedi inevitably faces and the temptations to solve the problem the quick and easy way that he's just given up on it. KOTOR understands that breaking morality over your knee and going out to fix the universe on your own terms no matter the cost isn't Grey, its loving Evil, that's why its what Revan does. Grey means that when somebody calls for help you put your head down and keep on walking, because you're too over all this poo poo to care anymore. Grey is passivity, because you can't fall if you're passive but you can't do any good either.

The only time I've ever seen Grey Jedi done in an interesting way was with the Imperial Knights in that one future EU comic. They were Grey not because they indulged in amorality as it suited them, but because they sacrificed their own moral codes in favor of obedience to their Emperor, and made it an explicit part of their order that those who's actions in following the Emperor's commands begin their fall to the Dark Side be put down without mercy. Its an interesting take to me because the conflict stop being about the Force User being tempted by evil and power as they struggle with moral decisions, and starts being about control over your own ambitions and desires once you've dipped toward Dark and how long your can endure fundamental discontinuity between your own sense of right and wrong and the actions you're compelled to take when you subsume your will entirely to a higher authority.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Everyone posted:

This for me. The way I see it there really is no "Dark Side" of the Force. There is the Force and how you choose to use it. Any darkness in it is what you've brought with you and allowed to manifest through misusing the Force.

There are a lot of universes where totally colorless energy/magic sources exist and the morality is entirely down to the person using it, and I love many of them. There's even universes where that is true and mortals stupidly assume that the energy sources ARE tied to morality when they're not, and those are also extremely fun.

Star Wars isn't either of those and I think its better off for it. The Force has a fundamental moral element to it, and more importantly that moral element reflects the larger morality of the setting. Selfishness bad, selflessness good. Cruelty and Revenge bad, Justice and Rehabilitation good. Greed bad, Healthy Detachment From The Material Desires good. Dictatorship bad, Democracy good. Etc. The Magical and the Mundane compliment each other and create a coherent universe with a specific thematic vision of Right and Wrong.

That's not to say that a Star Wars story can't play with those notions in new ways, can't find wiggle room around those seemingly bedrock rules, can't endure different interpretations of those rules. The Prequel Trilogy plugs Love into the Star-Wars-Moral-O-Tron and pops out "Love can easily twist into a desire to possess someone or drive you to take evil action when caught up in its passion, and should be handled with care." The Original Trilogy plugs in Love and pops out "Love is a redemptive force that can save even the most evil soul, but it demands we have the courage to make ourselves vulnerable to being hurt to experience its true power." Other Star Warses have had other radically different takes on Love. But I don't think I've ever seen one that was totally at odds with the basic rules of the setting, what is good and what is bad.

But that's just my take.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Everyone posted:

I don't see the Force as "colorless" either. My concept of it is that when you twist it to Dark ends, you twist yourself as well. Morally. Spiritually. Even physically. There's a reason Palpatine ends up looking like a vampire with psoriasis who got locked in a tanning booth.

Ah, I somewhat misread your actual post, my apologies. I saw the part where you said "There's just the force and what you do with it," but missed the bit where you said that the Darkside doesn't technically exist but IS manifested through using the Force for evil ends, and that creating that darkness through your choices in turns makes you yourself darker. I think that's a reasonable take on the Force, it fits with the whole dark = imbalance thing. I used to know if the Dark Side was an actual existing cosmological thing or not in the OBJECTIVE WORD OF GOD CANON but I don't remember anymore. gently caress if I'm digging through Wookiepedia to remind myself.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

VinylonUnderground posted:

There are actual, real traditions with hundreds-to-thousands of years of philosophy that, through Suzuki, Star Wars appropriated into The Force. People sit around and wonder "what does The Force mean?" when we can have a pretty loving high level discussion about it as long as we don't assume that a franchise is some hermeneutically sealed thing.

I get that goons are big about not going outside, so it makes sense that textual interpretations stay within the text. I just think that is an incredibly poor way to engage with a text in any meaningful fashion.

I mean, I'm aware of this information, but I am not educated in the stuff that you're talking about and I don't want to look like an ignorant white buffoon indulging in orientalism by misrepresenting asian philosophical beliefs, so I'm sticking to the actual text of Star Wars which I do know things about. You said you made an effort post where you brought up stuff about it, if you'd like to relink or share some links to reading material or even some book names I'd appreciate it. Otherwise :shrug:

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

fatherboxx posted:

I groaned out loud when that bullshit appeared in Rebels (and became an improtant plot point instead of a stupid one-off detour it was in Clone Wars). That mythological overlay on the force is easily the worst of Filoni's pet ideas and it stinks of some of the worst EU tendencies.

George Lucas wrote the episodes that created those three personally.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Its not like that stuff didn't already exist in the EU anyway. There's at least a handful of comics that show in explicit detail how the Purge of the Temple went down, including things like Anakin killing a helpless Shaak Ti in the infirmary and dueling the Jedi's greatest swordmaster in the temple dojo and other junk like that.

Of course there's an entire population of millions of assholes out there who don't care about anything in a film adaptation except seeing some thing that they liked in another medium performed in "live action," one-to-one with zero changes or imagination applied, as if that's something to aspire to in-and-of-itself

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Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Bust Rodd posted:

Lots of people cried when Luke owned the droids. It was a huge thing on every social media platform. We had multiple people ITT who copped to crying, myself included ( i was ACTUALLY crying because of Pedro, but still).

It's literally weird if you DON'T want to see Anakin fighting off 15-20 Jedi at once, IMO

There's a difference between being emotionally moved by an iconic moment of heroism or villainy, being emotionally excited by a moment of adrenaline pumping action, and spooging because a character in a nerd franchise DID SOMETHING TOTALLY BADASS YOU GUYS ZOMG in a moment of blatant fanboy pandering.

There can be crossover in that venn diagram, and despite my negative framing there's nothing INHERENTLY wrong with that third one. I thought Leia pulling herself back in from space in Last Jedi was really cool, and that was blatant pandering. The problem is that a lot of time that third one is rooted in wish fulfillment fantasy and self-insertion, which can rot an IP into worthlessness really easily if they're over-indulged.

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