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DimiPZC posted:The real question though: Obviously: The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Let's Play! > Ballad of a Bloodline: I can't wait to bombs some dodongos! ^__^ Or possibly: The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Let's Play! > Ballad of a Bloodline: I don't know who is that girl there, but she keeps asking if I want party
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Nov 22, 2020 21:25
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I don't really like the sound of fetching a child for a manhandla. Haven't we already had enough pedo-adjacent business in this game already? ...never mind, I just remembered we're not even through the second dungeon yet.  Re: OST, if only some of the custom tracks are good and the rest are stinkers, then they should each be counted, but otherwise no.
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Nov 22, 2020 21:29
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OK, so two things jumped out at me. [1] I know this LP has been the Bad Game Design Power Hour, but I have to note that ZC by itself seems like it's made of a number of kludges glued together. [2] Knil's not a miner! He's only a minor. 
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Nov 22, 2020 22:16
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Quackles posted:OK, so two things jumped out at me. Oh yeah, ZC is not a well oiled machine in the slightest. I had it crash on me twice and revert all my progress while trying to play the NES demake of Ballad.
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Nov 23, 2020 03:09
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That poo poo with the Darknuts reminds me of the Outlands hack of the original Zelda. I liked it a lot, but the creator had an obsession with putting so many Darknuts/Dark Links in a room that the game would slow to a crawl
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Nov 23, 2020 15:51
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  Let's finish off this godawful mountain. Lots of jumping around possibly incoming.  Heading to the right is a dead end.   We can bomb this to make a slope.  Bomb this to remove the fence gate.   Burn a green rock to remove it.  Oh look, more moldorms.   Another one of these...   Blocked going this way it seems.  Reminder that this is Z1 candle logic. The candle shoots out 2 tiles in front of you before stopping, and it has to linger on the burn trigger like that to trigger it.  We end up behind this tree.   Lotsa thieves here.   There's a secret on this screen that leads to the heart piece we just saw. The lens won't help us here, so try and guess what needs to be done.  If you guessed "push this specific boulder down", you'd be right.  We can push that block to remove the big pile of rubble to leave.  Two items we don't yet have are needed to deal with this circle of rocks.  This is a dead end...  While this leads to familiar territory, though we weren't able to access this side before.  Another one of those light holes. At least they're consistent about what triggers them.  We emerge in visual clutter land.  Some of these crystals are slashable with your sword.  Others are hookshot-able.  yeah its kinda obnoxious to navigate.  Burn this green rock btw.   That cave is actually one way. We have to go back the long way around if we enter it.  If you don't have superbombs, you're trapped down here and have to f6 (shortcut to trigger the death screen) out.  Let's look over to the left!  We chose poorly.  Anyways, we've already been in this cave, so we can just exit out back in this area. We have superbombs legitimately now, so...  Boom.  This valley area is probably the least offensive part of death mountain.  Huh, what are docks doing here?   ...Well, gently caress you too game.  Anyways, that valley leads to the next dungeon. So one long walk back to death mountain later, I try exploring another path. Let's see what's south of this ravine!   Well, gently caress you too game!  Another long rear end walk back later and-  Oh fuuuuck right off game!  One! Two! Two darknut splitters, o ho ho!  We can cheese this fight entirely by standing under this rock. They can't ever hurt us here.  Once they split, we have this in the bag thanks to our terrain advantage. ...What is this, a fire emblem game?  I mean, we get an elixir as reward, so it might as well be :V  We have super bombs now, so let's check out the manhandla cave. Man, I like having barely any room to dodge the instakill superbomb explosion we need to make.  Wow, much threaten. So scare.  Well timed bomb placements will demolish these pests.   So this corridor is the "trigger" to the sidequest. By stepping in this corridor, we've "solved" the sidequest and we can claim our reward as soon as we find the questgiver. It's yet more boss flag carryover poo poo.  This portal will take us out.  Well, we can bomb this well as well.  That gives us this magic container.  Pushing this block up will remove the barrier out.  Convenient exit, another superbomb location!  It takes us to this cliff area.  Oh look, megaman bats. ...They've been there for a while throughout this mountain, I only just noticed them   Bush meat!  Bush bomb!   To the south leads us to this vine maze.  I guess you can shoot an arrow here to make more vines appear. Great.  You can go through this neat overlay pseudocave to reach the other side.   This time the overlay incorporates diagonals that you have to navigate through blindly.   Oh gently caress me that's a lot of crystals.  God these are annoying to navigate.  We can head south blindly here though.  Free superbomb!  You can also bomb the campfire to make a ladder for a shortcut    Oh boy, a firerobe. Nice.  This campfire you can hookshot though!  Leads us to this cave here. A beam of light is blocking our way and will just make us exit the cave if we try to pass it.  The solution is to bomb it of course.  That makes this heart piece ours.   Having conquered one darknut ambush already this update, I decide I want revenge on the one from last update.  We have a large surplus of bombs, and they're really effective at taking out darknut pests.  We clear them out and get a potion for our efforts!  Wow. Taking the portal back softlocks us in here. There's supposed to be a step trigger below us to remove the blocks, but warping onto a trigger doesn't trigger it until we step off, and we have no room to step off it. So our reward for clearing the darknuts is a softlock and the inability to actually clear them out permanently!  Time to f6 out then.  Time to head to the next dungeon then.  That steaming cave wall is the entrance.   There's a chest on a cliff we can't get yet.   Maneuver over to the steaming wall and bomb it...  Next dungeon! Let's hold off for a sec and explore what little rest of the valley we can though.   Nothing much over here...  And there's clearly something here but our lens don't (and will never) have enough range to see what's required to make vines appear and the bomb wall open. Spoiler alert, we need to hookshot the bomb wall all the way up there.  Alright, clearly the dungeon will give us better results with triggers. How do we open this door, now?   Boomerang a fan... yeah, that seems about right. I think that's enough BoaB for now. COUNT OF ABSURDITY: gently caress off Myra/Knil: 7 Yikes: 5 Permanently miss-able: 5 Good design: 2
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Nov 23, 2020 20:17
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If I had a dollar for every time you were to increment a hypothetical bad design counter, I'd be rich.
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Nov 23, 2020 20:39
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I feel like they're deciding which item works on which object by die roll every time. Looks like this hole in the ground needs to be  hookshotted, sure, why not.
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Nov 23, 2020 20:50
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megane posted:I feel like they're deciding which item works on which object by die roll every time. Looks like this hole in the ground needs to be Yeah, that or a dartboard. Nice title change by the way.
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Nov 23, 2020 21:03
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DimiPZC posted:
 This is multiple layers of nonsense. A nonsonion.And this already looks even more headache-inducing than the first dungeon. Does this one at least not have constant multicoloured strobe lights?
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Nov 23, 2020 22:17
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Carpator Diei posted:And this already looks even more headache-inducing than the first dungeon. Does this one at least not have constant multicoloured strobe lights? No, it instead has steam that covers the entire screen to the point where it's headache inducing trying to actually see anything. EDIT: Here, have a sneak peak! 
DimiPZC fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 22:24
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Wait. So if the engine has a candle flame shoot two places, I'm assuming only in cardinal directions, and it can only trigger something if the flame stops on it, could you annoy the player by doing something like this: ---D--- xx__xxx xx_xxxx xx_xxxx xx_B___D xx_xxxx xx_xxxx xx__xxx ---D--- With D being doors, _ walkable floor, x rocks or something and B a burnable object. If you have a setup like this, the player coming from the south door would be unable to burn the object in the middle because they either don't have direct line or sight, or are only 1 space apart from the B. They'd have to go around who knows how many rooms to reach the east door in order to burn the object. Unless I don't quite understand how this works.
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Nov 23, 2020 22:53
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Carbon dioxide posted:Wait. So if the engine has a candle flame shoot two places, I'm assuming only in cardinal directions, and it can only trigger something if the flame stops on it, could you annoy the player by doing something like this: No, you understand it perfectly. Some rear end in a top hat designers can do (and have done!) poo poo to this degree, and it's pretty loving cheeky. Also, sneak peak of what we're looking at in this upcoming dungeon in the post above
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Nov 23, 2020 22:56
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DimiPZC posted:EDIT: Here, have a sneak peak! This is why I don't use Steam.
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Nov 23, 2020 23:47
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It is genuinely incredible that the developer didn't notice what a horrible idea this sort of thing is.
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Nov 23, 2020 23:49
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megane posted:I feel like they're deciding which item works on which object by die roll every time. Looks like this hole in the ground needs to be Yeah, there's no sense in it at all. Between that and the over-cluttered maps, it's becoming harder and harder just to follow what's going on. And please don't take that as a criticism of the LP, because it's actually really good! This quest is just stuffed to bursting with terrible bullshit and even the best LP efforts can only do so much.
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Nov 23, 2020 23:52
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Yep, the designer is just checking off a list of game design sins like it's a how-to on coming up with a great game. I'd admire the dedication if, you know, it weren't a horrible goal to aspire to.
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Nov 23, 2020 23:57
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Carpator Diei posted:It is genuinely incredible that the developer didn't notice what a horrible idea this sort of thing is. Do you mean that gif, or this entire game?
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Nov 24, 2020 00:21
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It's kind of cool how much under the hood trickery went into this. Shame it, you know, went into this.
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Nov 24, 2020 02:47
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I'm guessing the blue tunic is somewhere in that Turtle Rock looking area in the top-right of the Death Mountain map, and that you need the dungeon item from the second dungeon to reach it, BUT clearing the second dungeon permanently locks you out of that area somehow. Also yes, Panoply of Calatia is a fantastic ZC quest.
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Nov 24, 2020 03:13
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DimiPZC posted:No, it instead has steam that covers the entire screen to the point where it's headache inducing trying to actually see anything. About as good of an idea as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjsQ-seC31U
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Nov 24, 2020 03:35
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 OST - Steam gently caress me this is not gonna be fun. Original track at least.  The theme of this dungeon is going to be clutter. Level 1 had strobing lights in the palette, this place has noise everywhere.  This entire first floor isn't too hard to navigate, so I'm going to be jumping around a bit. Here's a map for your convenience.  Oh, looks like we're blocked.  ...  yeah, this is the gimmick of this place. At least they're consistent with it... Hopefully. Dead end?  ... We. We aren't even 10 images into the update. Not even 10 images into the update and you're already pulling this loving poo poo on me. Burn a loving block, is what you want me to do. Mmmkay.  North is the boss, but we can't cross this yet. We need to trigger a carryover secret first.  If we kill all enemies to the east here, we get a key.  Told you   Big hallway here.   This first floor has a lot of keys, and a lot of locks. Let's see what's past this lock.  Basement floor!  ...Oh christ almighty what is this!? Welcome to the theme of this dungeon! Steam. The entire lower floor is filled with this obnoxious awful steam that makes playing headache-inducing.   Anyways we have to bomb this tile to remove the boulder in our way. We use a key to remove a roadblock from a future path. That's basically how all the key usage on the upper floor goes.  Anyways, the bottom of the hallway is directly east from the start, so we made a little loop around the dungeon.  We need to bomb this loving shutter open   Oh, christ, a stalfos 3. These things deal... 4 hearts of damage with their sword beams, and they shoot sword beams in all 4 directions when they fire. Lovely seeing these this early! Anyways, the lens in this room tells us that the block turns into a chest, but not what does it.  That's because you need to hookshot into this hole in the wall to hit the trigger, which was hidden under an overlay which prevents the lens from saying "hit this with hookshot". Good game design.  Really early boss key. We need it to access the basement, which is the real meat of the dungeon.  You can bomb this wall open...  As well as this wall.  They both have locked doors behind them. We'll need some keys.  South of the block we burned is this upper area.  Okay, so this is dumb. The lens doesn't tell you anything about this screen. I just assumed that meant there was no way to cross this pit.   See, the reason it didn't tell us anything was cause the boomerang trigger was out of reach, and the secret it triggered was the first frame of a bridge extending, which has no visible change from the previous tile. gently caress you game.  That's a key down.  We can boomerang a fan to get back to the hallway.  Oh, I wonder what triggers this? Must be another boomerang fan, right?    gently caress off.  Another locked door behind it.  I don't blame you if you can't see what the gently caress to do here.  Fan to the right. Boomerang it.  Back upstairs, this door... is dumb. We'll open it in a bit.  There's a key down here we'll be picking up shortly.  Boomerang this fan.  We're now west of start.  We need to come back here with the item from level 3 for a heart piece. We could go back to level 1 with our bracelet and nab a heart piece there too, but I'm a dummy who doesn't remember stuff.   Oh gently caress off.  This is a handy shortcut to the basement for when we unlock it.  Over here near the bottom left, we have spikes blocking our path.  We bomb the machine.   Killing the wizards gives us a key.  Anyways, to open this stupid door, we need to stand here specifically. It's really precise too, and I missed this on my first pass through this room because Link's hitbox is only the bottom 8 pixels of his sprite, so I was walking too high up to trigger this.  Crossroads here.  North is... I think a hint for something? There's a puzzle later that sort of resembles this but limitations mean it's a nothing puzzle.  We can bomb this statue btw.  South leads us here.  gently caress off.   Compass is over here.   Bomb another loving shutter. Of course.  This doesn't work. You need to specifically bomb the right side of the door.  Let's hold off on going through that shutter we bombed open.  Uh...  Oh gently caress off.  North is the main way into the basement. Before we do that though...   Stepping on this lowers these barriers...  Grab the key we missed up here...   Guess what we need to do here?  Step on another precise floor tile. Let's head back now.  Jesus christ it's hard to see down here.  We need the magic boomerang for this block.   We can unlock this shortcut as well to cut back on backtracking.  I can't wait to bombs some dodongos! Can you?  We need magic boomerang for this shutter...   And for this big block right here.  Most of this is just going through the screens we used our keys to remove blockades from. This waterfall screen is the last check in the line.  Anyways, this lower floor is obnoxious to navigate.  I mean, seriously, look at this. Headache inducing.  We get a key down here for killing all the enemies.  So this might look like a normal hallway, but it isn't. Can you spot the thing?  There's red tiles that blend in with the lava down here that we can use the ladder to hopscotch over. Fun and exciting puzzle design.  Free healing tile.  Due to how the ladder works, you can only go straight across from where you enter, because the ladder is only a 2 way street.   We need to bomb this... whatever the hell this is I can barely loving see down here    We can also bomb up here to do... something I don't loving know I can't bloody see anything!  We can also hookshot a block to remove it, as one does.  Sadly we don't have enough keys, so we need to go find some in this steaming mess.   We can access the other part of the 2 way street from here.  Oh look, it's the non-puzzle I mentioned earlier.  Step here specifically to remove the gate blocking the key.  We're below the dodongo room now. Is this fun for you all to read? Cause it sure was a blast having to play it. gently caress Boab. gently caress Boab. gently caress Boab.  We can hookshot over here.  More hookshots...  All that to get another key.  We can unlock this now.  Finally, a loving reprieve from that garbage. Who's ready for the dumbest loving trigger in this dungeon?  Ladder in this specific spot.  This reveals a walkable tile that allows you to continue across the rest of the lava. gently caress Boab. gently caress Boab.  Kill the stalfos 3 down here to get another key.  Hookshot across here...  Crossroads. We want to head north first.  Okay, so remember the Lost Hills from Zelda 1? The place where you need to go north 4 times in a row to reach level 5? This is the exact same poo poo. You arbitrarily need to head north 4 times on this screen for no other reason than to waste your time.  We get the final key of the dungeon for doing so.  Another reprieve. Thank god.  There we go, that's all the keys used.  Bombing all the dodongos reveals a door to the south.  OST - Rain This theme again...   : It stuns living beings and morphs objects into something new! Use it on things that block your way!Nice. We got the arbitrary trigger key. Also, this outdoors area resets our continue point so we need to backtrack all the way through the basement instead of just dying and respawning in the upper floor.  The crystal boomerang: "It just works."  We need to boomerang this shutter to open it.  This activates a carryover secret that lets us access the boss.  No reason to hold off on it, let's just go for it.  OST - Mechanical Anthem Is that... a reploid insignia? What the gently caress. Also, another original composition, and we're going to be hearing this one a lot.  Anyways this boss consists of a series of rooms with arbitrary triggers.  Boomerang the lever on the bottom.  Slash this machine.  Burn this block.  Todd howard this switch.  Okay, what do we do here?  Oh gently caress right off.  We're almost at the end.  Port Skyrim to that red button up there.  Last, but not least, bomb this random rear end block.  ...Is that a naked girl hooked up to a machine?  : So, that is the reason we are here! : Is it ethical to kill a kind of human being to advance?: I need to decide quick, this place is really unstable... A moral choice, in my Zelda? Before Undertale was even a kickstarter project!? It's more likely than you think. Let's spare her.      Here's a moral choice, but we're going to kill you for picking the right one and make you feel like poo poo for picking the wrong one when it's the only way to progress.  Yes, you have to go through the entire boss fight again to get another shot. Let's kill her this time.   : You have been given the Ruby of Gorons! Now you are just one step away from being able to wield the Legendary Sword! Don't give up just now! You already feel the power of the artifact flowing throughs your muscles... Let's go! Escape sequence time. Also, heart container for beating the boss.  So the creator made a glaring oversight in this segment, because this segment is copypasted from the original segment.  Secret flags are still placed, with no secret combo set. This means you can trigger black squares to appear where secrets were originally!   I'm not surprised that this oversight slipped through.   Just the perfect capstone to this.  : her sad eyes?: There was no other way. She was responsible for the monsters and the harsh environment.: No... Uhm... Well, go and tell the Goron King about our 'success'  After we beat the boss, we're warped to a night version of Death Mountain. Once again, one time only thing, wears off when we leave and re-enter a building or leave the area. Man, 2 dungeons down! Enemies are getting tougher, I'm sure the game will throw me a defense-boosting bone any second now! I sure hope I didn't permanently miss it by beating that dungeon COUNT OF ABSURDITY: gently caress off Myra/Knil: 8 Yikes: 6 Permanently miss-able: 6 Good design: 2 DimiPZC fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Nov 26, 2020 |
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Nov 26, 2020 02:09
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I used to want more Zelda fangames and hacks. I was young and naive then. So, so young
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Nov 26, 2020 02:51
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The hack's design will never stop being surprising to me. The steam layer making it impossible to see anything. Triggers that change depending on however the author felt that particular screen with no rhyme or reason to them. That whole...boss...where words fail me utterly between the out of place insignia, the glitches, the fake moral choice, the terrible meme, the naked girl... Just, yikes.
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Nov 26, 2020 03:02
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Is there any evidence that the creator of this.... thing... has actually played a Zelda game before? Or did they just read a list of items and names and decided they could do better?
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Nov 26, 2020 03:08
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Man, even the upper floor of that dungeon was really visually busy and hard to make sense of. The Shoop da Whoop was pretty funny, though.
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Nov 26, 2020 03:16
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Ok, I'm going to try to say something nice about this dungeon: A steam-themed sauna dungeon is kind of an interesting idea that I don't think has been used in an official Zelda game. Making the boss a sort of puzzle gauntlet instead of a normal boss fight could be cool if done well. Now that that's out of the way: Hoo boy this game is real bad huh So, uh, will it ever be explained why there's a human hooked up to the sauna control system or are we just going to throw that in out of nowhere and never bring it up again? Quackles posted:Man, even the upper floor of that dungeon was really visually busy and hard to make sense of. Was it though
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Nov 26, 2020 03:50
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Procrastine posted:So, uh, will it ever be explained why there's a human hooked up to the sauna control system or are we just going to throw that in out of nowhere and never bring it up again? It wouldn't be a forced moral choice if the game didn't constantly hammer and bludgeon you in the face with it every 5 minutes 15 hours from now, would it? As for why; I'm sure it's brought up somewhere but this game's english is so awful I can't make heads or tails of it.
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Nov 26, 2020 04:05
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Can you disable layers of graphics in this? Because d a m n.
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Nov 26, 2020 04:56
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Leraika posted:Can you disable layers of graphics in this? Because d a m n. In a well coded game, probably would work. I'm honestly not sure if this game would end up disabling random textures on top of getting rid of those overlays. Especially with the lens basically changing a visible layer on its own. They've clearly done enough with multiple layers that I'm not sure I'd trust them to not have gameplay relevant stuff on every single layer.
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Nov 26, 2020 05:04
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Procrastine posted:Was it though OK, having to redo the fight because of it wasn't funny. And the context of it wasn't funny either. But the event itself was.
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Nov 26, 2020 05:04
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DimiPZC posted:
It's time to go get that blue tunic guys! But where do we start? Dimi, where on Death Mountain is the blue tunic!? Well...  First we need to start off here in the Belladonna fight.  Here we are, at the end of the fight.  Why did I bring you all here? Well, as it turns out, you need to make an unknown third option during the moral choice to obtain the blue tunic.  Push this...  And here it is, right under this block!  And that's the story of how I got my blue tunic that I'll certainly be using throughout the rest of the game. ...I'm stuck in green tunic until far, far later. gently caress this game.
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Nov 26, 2020 05:37
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wh no...
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Nov 26, 2020 05:46
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W-why? 
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Nov 26, 2020 05:53
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There's going to be another permanently missable item in a boss fight, won't there? Obviously not more than one, though. That would risk establishing a pattern that could be used to reasonably figure stuff out. Which this game is strenuously against.
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Nov 26, 2020 06:05
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There are no words for this game. Frankly I think you need to add a -1 to good game design tally just for that.
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Nov 26, 2020 06:52
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That's. Even worse than what I guessed. 
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Nov 26, 2020 06:54
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 started the update reading how to get the tunic, thinking "why?" "why any of the things in these pictures" reading the full update did not help. There are no (good) answers. "starting" to get a bit worried what horrors the late game dungeons are gonna be like
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Nov 26, 2020 07:02
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I'm going to echo everyone else in asking 'why?' But more specifically, what is the reason for this game being made? Most fangames are obvious, either someone wants to add gameplay to their fanfiction, or they think the canon games are easy baby games for babies and want to make it ludicrously difficult so they can smug at anyone who complains. And then there's this. You'd think it was the fanfic option, except the 'story' is so barebones I barely remember the protagonists' names and there's no actual explanation for anything. There is no story being told here, not even a really bad one. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to be spared the endless lengthy cutscenes of dialogue between an author's pet NPCs exploring their deepest emotions and life stories, but the story isn't the motive for this game existing. And this isn't difficult, in the conventional sense of the word (I hope this makes sense, I don't meant to imply that playing it isn't insanely hard, OP is doing a great job), just immensely annoying. Regular enemies are pointlessly overpowered but the bosses are cheesable and there's no actual puzzle beyond endless variations on 'is this particular block bomb/fire/Todd Howard' and 'I literally can't see where to walk'. Every single step is the kind of thing regular bad games use as padding to increase a dungeon's length, but there's nothing here to pad. If anything this seems like someone just messing around with Zelda Classic to see what weird and wacky things they can make the engine do, then on a whim cramming it all together and scribbling a few lines of dialogue to make it seem like it's meant to be a game before tossing it into the void.
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Nov 26, 2020 09:41
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Foreground occlusion in a 2D game is poo poo 9/10 times it's used, you really need to ask yourself "what am I adding to the game and is it worth not being able to see the player character" when you do it. Most of the time, the answer is a resounding NO.DimiPZC posted:No man can understand... My power is in my own hands! I will prove you wrong, because I am right! I am a girl who goes very far. Besides... DimiPZC posted:So this corridor is the "trigger" to the sidequest. By stepping in this corridor, we've "solved" the sidequest and we can claim our reward as soon as we find the questgiver. It's yet more boss flag carryover poo poo. Rabbi Raccoon posted:I used to want more Zelda fangames and hacks.
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Nov 26, 2020 14:06
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