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Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
I predict everything will be fine and usher in a new American golden age.

Piss tape

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Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
It's horrifying to me that millions of Americans simply do not inhabit a fact-based reality. Their relatives die around them and they trust the carnival barker because he tells confidently them what they want to hear. Even when it comes out unambiguously from his own mouth that he's lying to them. It's not "oh, these folks have different policy preferences that they've arrived at through well-reasoned thought;" it's, "these folks will trust any loud crank who will cynically feed their fears and worst impulses."

This feels like like being at a social event and hearing some slovenly wackjob loudly proclaim he fucks his dog, only for half the crowd to start nodding knowingly and clapping him on the back. These fucks just live in a reality that is completely at odds with mine and they're dangerous.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Lol, just checked my heart rate since I started following reporting five hours ago and it's spiked from my usual average of 45 BPM to 75. Stress is dumb.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Welp, Trump got up on TV and accused "somebody" of trying to steal the election from him. It is a profoundly dire time for American democracy.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
2020: Biden wins and somehow managed to get Trump to go. GOP wins the Senate.
2021: The Covid recession finally hits. Voters blame Biden.
2022: The GOP takes the House. Biden is stymied at every turn. Any new Supreme Court openings locked shut by the Senate.
2024: Trump is uncontested in the GOP primary. He wins the presidential election with a blowout legislative victory. Supreme Court shifts 7-2. Then 8-1.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

This kind of thing is legitimately unhealthy to do to yourself and you should stop.
Nah, just idle forecasting.

While I want to think that a different Dem candidate would have done better, I still think this election is more indicative of how pervasive the rot in the American electorate is. They're on a completely different plane of reality such that we're now stuck hoping that conservative news media and political leaders finally refuse to indulge Trump's incipient authoritarianism. poo poo's hosed.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
If we can get through all the counting without a violent chud attack on ballot counters, I'll be slightly less pessimistic about the future of this country. Slightly.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
I'm glad that the presser was generic inane BS rather than batshit, "we start bombing in 5 minutes", explicit incitement to violence.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Milo and POTUS posted:

These types aren't half as brave as they like to jack themselves raw over
Folks like to say that as if it means nothing will happen. It just takes one loon who thinks they have a shot. And if they're too craven to go directly at a target that might shoot back, they'll either act less directly or go after a softer target their hosed up minds think might think is linked.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
I'm not going to truly believe we're past the worst of the danger zone until Biden sits in the Oval Office. The GOP is ramping up its "THE DEMONRATS ARE STEALING THE ELECTION" rhetoric and folks are treating it as them just being sore losers that will come to nothing. There's a non-zero chance that the Republicans talk themselves into taking steps that would tear the country apart. They're already telling their voters that Democrats are the ones actively doing so, so rallying their base to the "defense of the republic" is not outside the realm of possibility, unthinkable through it may be.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

PeterCat posted:

Not term limits, but age limits. You can't be in the legislature government if you're over the age of 70.
FTFY

If we can accept that folks under 25 broadly aren't fit to assume a seat in the House, we sure as gently caress can assume that the average person over 70 is on the road to cognitive decline and simply lacks the mental agility to respond to new and changing circumstances required by just about any high pressure job.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
I've been giving the Biden campaign the benefit of the doubt that he's minimally healthy enough to take office for another four years, but this debate is disabusing me of that trust.

Trump's also spouting absolute non-sequitur nonsense, but he's doing so with vitality.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
I hope they invent cryosleep soon so I can skip this part of the timeline¹





¹ which part precisely? *gestures vaguely at the general environs*

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Yeah, there's a distinct difference between a flubbed debate caused by bad prep and misspeaking versus voters taking away that the candidate fundamentally won't be up to the demands of the office for another four years.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Pine Cone Jones posted:

i will take a corpse over trump
I'm on board. My concern, though, is that more than enough of the voting public fundamentally does not and will not share that position. And, if we're willing to accept a corpse over Donald Trump, why not accept Harris or another candidate if they look more up to the task?

There's a handful of pundits I follow on Bluesky who are so weirdly pro-Biden it ends up hurting the argument for him. There are a lot of decent, if debatable arguments in favor of staying the course. "Concerns about Biden's performance in the debate are nothing but mass hysteria," though? That's just outright gaslighting and devastating to credibility.

The chuds and the NYT absolutely are cynically fueling the fire and that's abhorrent. But we can't just pretend that voters won't be put off by Biden's manifest shortcomings (polls do show a dip in Biden's already poor numbers), nor just whine that they should be voting against authoritarianism anyway. They should! But the argument needs to be that American democracy faces this unprecedented threat and our candidate, whoever that is, is eager and ready to go to bat for America.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Even given that a president technically needn't be mentally agile or even all there to get by fine in office, what matters for November is what voters think or can be persuaded of. Are too many going to stay home, naively or selfishly uninspired by the need to defeat authoritarianism alone?

I don't even solidly come down on the replacement side. It's just direly important not to contribute to a willfully overoptimistic echo chamber that refuses to entertain electoral realities, lest we blunder into another stupid "it's her turn!" loss when the stakes are even higher. None of us are going to be deciding things, but y'all are probably going to be engaging one way or another with undecided dumb-dumbs who need to be persuaded to the ballot box.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

I'm not sure how someone comes back with younger folks after enthusiastically enforcing drug crimes this century. Harris is a dead end, there are politicians who haven't put thousands of people in prison over pot.
Many young folks are unaware of these offenses against orthodoxy and many of those who are or became aware would accept it if she were to chart a new path. Hell, even if she didn't, I'd conjecture the negative impact would at least be no worse than Biden's infirmity, so long as elements of the left don't inexplicably decide the status quo on drug policy is somehow worse than literal incipient christofascism.

Add in that she or another candidate would have the chance to break, even if only marginally, with Biden on other sore spots (Israel's genocide jumps out), there's some chance of regaining ground.

All of which needs to be balanced against the cost of changing horses, of course. But better to do so sooner than too late.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
A number of the pundits and regular folks expressing concern are also vocally anti-Trump. While the NYT's takes feel more like a vendetta against Biden, a lot of the talk is from people who want to defeat Trump, but have concerns since the debate that Biden isn't the best one for the task.


And we can obviously rightly complain about the broader media's ludicrous weighing of Biden's age as equivalent to (or even more important than) Trump's brokenrained authoritarianism, I just don't know that it's going to achieve much and the complaints then unnecessarily get extended to the group in the first paragraph.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Eh, I'm inclined toward the "swap in Kamala" camp, but the Putin bit at least looked like an admissible brain fart that he recovered from effectively immediately.
https://x.com/BidenHQ/status/1811533805829689460

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

ded posted:

why don't the people calling for biden to drop out instead call for convicted felon & sexual assaulter + treasonous document thief trump to drop out
I don't understand why people feel like this is a useful point to make. The good-faith portion of those calling for Biden to step aside have been fighting Trump since day one and know calling for the fash shield around him to crumble isn't going to get anywhere. The argument for Biden to step aside is that someone else would better rise to the challenge and a decision sooner than later gives more runway for the new campaign to coalesce.

And sure, there's fuckwits in the media who are unduly downplaying Trump's abject unfitness in favor of highlighting Biden's own shortcomings. That's reprehensible! But it's not the whole of the skepticism toward continuing Biden's candidacy.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

ded posted:

trump is a convicted felon, convicted sexual assaulter, stole more classified information than that idiot air force kid. any single one of these things would have people calling for biden to drop out, if it was him that did these things
Yep. He should be prosecuted for treason. Everyone is well aware of his high crimes and the fash have fallen in lockstep with him. The media doesn't do a good enough job of reminding people of this.

Whether Biden is the best candidate to beat him, however, is a completely different debate that isn't in any way refuted by pointing at Trump. The only thing pointing at Trump is good for is reminding everyone that we need to coalesce around the strongest candidate to beat him. That may be Biden! But his performance in the campaign thus far has a lot of people questioning this.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

McNally posted:

No, he really shouldn't. I'm not wild about opening that can of worms up. There's a reason why nobody's been prosecuted for treason since the end of World War II.
Practically? Agreed 100%.
Emotionally? The man directed an attack against Congress and broke the country's tradition of a peaceful transfer of power, with only incompetence and laziness saving the country from a much worse scenario.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Funniest result would be Trump starting to talk about doing gun control.
He's going to start talking about taking vengeance against antifa terrorists.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Stultus Maximus posted:

Biden wasn't kidding when he talked about "the elite" being against him. They're intentionally sabotaging him because a Trump presidency isn't as bad to these fucks than the donor wallets closing. The reason why this is still in the news is because the centrist Democrats won't let it fade.
Couple things:
1) I don't understand the exact motive you're attributing to the elites/donors for "sabotaging" Biden.
2) Complaining chiefly about it being in the news to reject the idea of swapping out Biden isn't too perspective: whether Biden should drop out is best based on an alternative's hypothetical improved likelihood to beat Trump. While talking about it further in the media does itself further degrade perceptions of Biden, complaining about that exclusively reads like a way to sidestep concerns about electability.

Of course, no one has a genuinely good measure for any of the likelihoods involved, so it's become a screaming match.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Doubleposting because it seems the Trump campaign has kicked Hogan off the speaker schedule over this:
https://x.com/bidenswins/status/1814033177855263059?s=46

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Cugel the Clever posted:

Doubleposting because it seems the Trump campaign has kicked Hogan off the speaker schedule over this
Turns out this was baseless speculation, he was just desperately searching for a shirt with the American flag on it that he could rip off to reveal his Nazi one.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Wombot posted:

None of the Democrats saying he should resign has even a hint of a plan of what to do afterwards, they're all just freaking each other out.
What? Everyone and their mother knows Kamala is the obvious and only viable successor for 2024, the people in the party are just not talking about that openly because they don't want to completely torpedo Biden. Problem is that this ensures things get agonizingly drawn out if Biden stubbornly refuses to let someone more capable take the reins. They appear to feel they need to let Biden bow out with a modicum of grace, but, like RBG, he's decided not to let someone else step up.

This needs to end in one direction or another ASAP to clear the runway for the campaign.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Yeah, it baffles me that some people leaned so hard into the concern being a complete fabrication. But whatever. I'm sure they'll back Harris to the hilt since their pushback was, presumably, founded in having the best candidate to beat Trump.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
They're still trying to hit the ground running on the Harris campaign, but they've at least swapped out (one instance of) Biden's name on the donation page:
https://secure.actblue.com/donate/social-bfp-july-2024-v2

Still has "$46" as a cutesy donation option. I went ahead with $47. For the first time in months, I'm actually feeling excited to donate and volunteer rather than just desperate and resigned to doing so.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Kith posted:

frankly i'm just happy that there's not going to be any more BIDEN OLD coverage anymore
GOP folks are demanding he resign because they're too dumb or think their audience is too dumb to understand that "not being the right candidate for either a campaign or another 4-year term" doesn't at all imply an urgent need to resign.

Weirdly, I've seen a couple voices that are upset that Biden is stepping aside concur with this bad line of reasoning.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Stultus Maximus posted:

...WTF Barry? What are you doing?
There's been an insistence from some quarters that this has all been a manufactured putsch by party elites. My guess is they're holding back to avoid being seen as too eager to be directing the path forward, giving Joe some grace and recognition that he's still president and the ultimate decision maker.

I get we've all been conditioned to assume the worst and get upset about it by a couple decades of social media poisoning, but it doesn't hurt to withhold judgement until there's some actual action taken one way or another.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
I'll add the caveat that I'm perplexed AOC and Bernie haven't come out with endorsements for Harris yet. Wasn't the main thrust of their argument that Democrats must align on the candidate to defeat Trump, just that they thought Biden was best positioned over an alternative?

AOC in particular called out party elites as trying to circumvent Harris. Surely the best way she can push back on that possibility now is through an immediate endorsement?

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

It's only been six hours.
Still, Ilhan Omar and a dozen other prominent reps have come out. I'm mainly just offering them up as contrast with Pelosi and Obama, who have an actual reason beyond enjoying what little remains of the weekend to hold back, though :shrug:

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Love to see it!

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Trump is complaining that Biden's COVID announcement on Friday was fake and, for once, I don't think it's entirely conspiratorial to suspect that it was actually just misdirection to give Biden time to firm things up.

Trump then complains in the next sentence that this somehow makes Biden a threat to democracy. How a president choosing not to run again does this is left to the readers' imagination.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Platystemon posted:

It would be one thing to say that he was isolating “out of an abundance of caution”, but it’s quite another to have the president’s physician sign multiple letters about his treatment, his condition, and the specific strain of the virus he’s dealing with.
Would hardly be the first time the president's physician was grossly politicized (albeit here benignly). Given how closely they played their cards to their chests, with many top folks only getting clued in a minute before things went public, it's not outlandish :shrug:

spacetoaster posted:

Dude was a liberal democrat most of his life.

I think the Clintons even went to his wedding.
Nah, he was a rich New Yorker looking to hobnob with elites, fucker just presented as whatever was most convenient for him at any given time.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Stultus Maximus posted:

Sometimes, and this is one of those times, I feel good about being old and out of touch.
Sometimes, and this is one of those times, I feel good about having never been in touch.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Nystral posted:

The “Harris Honeymoon” effect. Hopefully they settle higher than Joe but I don’t think they’ll remain this high until November. I believe that most voters are still in the imprinting stage of the Harris candidacy, which will end eventually as they get to know her better and where she stands on various issues, and therefore result in shedding some voters as a result.
Why do you think this can only go down as she campaigns? Her ability to get out there and vigorously sell a forward-looking message is a key difference from Biden. I'd guess she stands to bring out a bunch of low-info voters who were generically dissatisfied with Biden.

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Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Apathetic Medic posted:

I said this to you before, but he's only delivered on approx. 30% of his promises. Your choice to ignore that.
That's such a silly framing though. For one thing, he's had an active opposition fighting tooth and nail to thwart his agenda. Dude's not a dictator and there's only so much that can be done when goldfish-brained voters hand the House to the party working to actively destroy the American government.

For another, measuring this in percentages is nonsensical, as if one delivered policy is weighted equally to any other. Is the huge win of getting America out of Afghanistan balanced out by the stalled agenda to deliver broadband Internet to rural communities? Depends on your priorities, but anyone with a brain is going to put the former ahead of the latter.

Apathetic Medic posted:

The idea that America is actually a one-party state is not a new idea. Noam Chomsky, Christopher Hitchens, and Julius Nyerere are all quoted for saying as much.
:chloe:

Cugel the Clever fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jul 27, 2024

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