Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
I just need to know if I should be panicking or celebrating at any given moment.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
Hillary 24

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Cugel the Clever posted:

It's horrifying to me that millions of Americans simply do not inhabit a fact-based reality. Their relatives die around them and they trust the carnival barker because he tells confidently them what they want to hear. Even when it comes out unambiguously from his own mouth that he's lying to them. It's not "oh, these folks have different policy preferences that they've arrived at through well-reasoned thought;" it's, "these folks will trust any loud crank who will cynically feed their fears and worst impulses."

This feels like like being at a social event and hearing some slovenly wackjob loudly proclaim he fucks his dog, only for half the crowd to start nodding knowingly and clapping him on the back. These fucks just live in a reality that is completely at odds with mine and they're dangerous.

Going to any conservative space is like going to the other side of a mirror. They are saying the exact same thing.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
The other option is for Dems being in charge of everything and getting blamed for raising taxes, spending money, economy crashing, COVID lockdowns and causing a GOP wave in 22 or 24.

Not that I don't want that cause it would be better but I don't know by how much.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
gently caress I hate this so much gently caress internet companies

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Pine Cone Jones posted:

How about some optimism of hopefully they'll be better, because I'm tired of doomposting poo poo.

Its simple math??

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Pine Cone Jones posted:

It's true he might not need it, but a cushion would be nice, and knowing my new home state doesn't go to a dipshit would make me feel a little better. Also, math is dumb.

You should kick maths rear end

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
Winning has nothing to do with it, its a matter of principle.

Math just sitting there thinking they're smart, all smug and poo poo.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

mlmp08 posted:

The irony here, though, is that lightpole did the math wrong.

I did not do the math just assumed it was done right

lightpole fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Nov 4, 2020

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
Saw a lot of 264 updates just now

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
Dems need to rebrand socialist policies or start working on the weird socialism stigma in the US now so the can run on legit, common sense reforms the rest of the world can have but we can't. Call it freedom markets or some poo poo just loving change this poo poo.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
Thought the GOP was heavily favored to win a runoff of either match in GA. This is Ossoffs 2nd try right? Maybe 3rd times a charm?

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
Ossof has lost to Perdue twice at this point. If the libertarian vote goes entirely to him in the runoff he might have a chance but tribalism is going to work against that. Warnocks best chance is to win outright since the GOP vote is split. A runoff will make it a Dem v Republican choice and will be much harder to win. That's 2, I don't remember who the other ones are but I had set Dems taking two of them best case.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Acebuckeye13 posted:

On the other hand, Republicans benefited a LOT from Trump-boosted turnout. Will Republicans still turn out to hold the Senate majority, and will Democrats surge to vote against McConnell? It's hard to say.

There's too much uncertainty for me. Really wishing they had both just won outright.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
I've usually been more centrist but the last year or so has pushed me hard left. The Dems need to rebrand their policies to avoid socialist labels. Their policies are popular. Their branding is poo poo.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

ManMythLegend posted:

I'm seeing a lot of this take and I don't buy it.

I'm really struggling to believe that there is this untapped vein of people who would vote for Karl Marx if he was on the ticket but pulled the lever for Trump instead of Biden.

If the claim is that Biden didn't instill enough revolutionary fervor in an electorate looking for a hard left turn, well this election is looking like it will be the highest turnout in American history by a large margin so enthusiasm is clearly not the issue either.

I suspect that the issue is really that the Democratic party is actually extremely lovely at conveying any actual platform (progressive out otherwise) to voters other than, "we're not Republicans.". Especially at the local level.

This was my thought. Get a real message out there instead of playing I'm not touching you with socialist policies and get the party behind it. Again, many of these policies are popular. The GOPs ability to demonize them as equivalent to full blown communism is due to this messaging problem.

The breadth of the party allows Republicans to paint them however they want, too extreme, not extreme enough, hypocrites, etc.

Edit: Republicans have managed to label everything as a choice between FREEDOM and servitude, no matter how stupid, unconnected, untrue or against self interest it is and their base eats it up.

lightpole fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Nov 6, 2020

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Acebuckeye13 posted:

The really difficult problem is that the right wing still has a huge media network and we don't. It's a lot easier to put out a message when you know that Fox (Still the biggest cable news outlet), OANN, Sinclair-owned local news stations, right-wing radio, and social media personalities like Shapiro and Cernovich will all repeat your arguments verbatim, trash your opponents, and bury your failures. And because they're poisoning the airwaves, you get a lot of folks in the middle who are thus convinced that "both sides lie" and won't listen to your arguments anyway, or parse them through some insane logic loop that doesn't make any goddamn sense from the outside that ends up with them voting for prison reform while also voting for candidates who think jaywalking should be a capital crime.

It's not a great situation to be in, to put it lightly.

A solid 35-45ish%, Trumps unshakeable base, of the country is unreachable this way. If they don't come up with a counter, Dems will continue to get hosed like this and go back to the same old infighting and pointing fingers. Their inability to learn from each failure is rather amazing I have to admit.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Acebuckeye13 posted:

I think an inherent problem is that it's easier to coordinate a conservative message as opposed to a liberal/leftist one. Conservative messaging is easy—the entire ideology of conservatism is based slowing/halting progress and can easily be sold as a nostalgic "things were better the way they used to be," focusing on an imagined or whitewashed past. Meanwhile, the left side of the political spectrum wants progress, but how much progress and where is a matter of massive internal debate. You see it all the time even on these forums (especially on these forums) — literally everyone here is in general agreement on certain principles like "climate change is an existential threat and needs to be immediately addressed," "the american healthcare system is a national disgrace and needs to be completely reformed if not entirely replaced with a nationalized healthcare system," "Systemic racism is real and has a major effect on policing," etc, but we argue over these things all the loving time because there are countless competing visions not only on how to address them, but how to even talk about them (See the endless slapfights over the effectiveness of the slogan "Defund the police"). And we're the ones who believe in these things—there's a substantial number of Democrats and independents who don't! So finding an effective message that can attract the entire spectrum of potential Democratic voters, from Blue Dogs to Marxists, is difficult if not outright impossible—and that's before you even get to platform considerations, how the message can even reach voters without getting distorted or weakened.

Republicans have managed to create a message that conveys antifa = fascists. Their propaganda network allows them to say anything they want and then do the exact opposite once in power so I think its possible. As you said however, they have that propaganda network in place and it took 30+ years to create.

Another piece is that under our FPTP system, a strong, unified party with a simple message has a pretty big advantage. The Democrats would have greater success as a coalition in a modern parliamentary system.

This is all just conjecture cause the hand wringing "too extreme, not extreme enough" arguments are tedious and a tiny bit pathetic at this point as they constantly focus on the surface problems without consideration for the root cause.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

See this has me questioning her intelligence because Donald Trump doesn't have a friend.

She is quoting him.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
Are you saying a group of mid-late 30s nerds haven't played Starcraft?

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
Faithless electors would be such a brazen attack on democracy it would probably break things enough to generate a much stronger desire for change. At least that would be my hope but it would probably instead lead to nothing getting done.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
Pretty sure the only reason he ran is to get Trump out of office. He is only doing 1 term and is anything but dynamic. I wish he had run 4 years ago so we wouldn't be in this position. Biden barely managed to beat Trump, I have a strong suspicion Bernie would not have done any better, probably even worse as they would have been able to label him a radical and attack him with the riots.

The immediate ability to start calling for each others blood and instantly poo poo on Biden is rather amazing.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

mlmp08 posted:

I think Bernie would be a better president. But also I think Bernie would have lost. It’s a position that means that both brunch libs and also red rose twitter gets angry. (I voted Bernie in the primary)

Biden didn’t really barely win. Multiple states were coin flips but he won every single one of those key coin flips. When you only need like ~2 of 6 coin flips to go your way, the math is very on your side, even if it’s nerve-wracking to watch.

Basically Nate Silver was right. He made a model that said “even if polls are underreporting Trump votes by a lot, Biden will win and it will take forever to count.” That was correct. His model was essentially if you roll a ten-sided die, Biden needs a 2-10 to win. Biden rolled a 3 or 4 and a lot of people lost it as a result.

This is a fair assessment but I view it as being much closer than it should have been. Trump still won 47-48% of the vote. I also went Bernie/Biden.



Zamujasa posted:

Also consider AOC's tweet thread earlier in which the progressive side of the party actually did fairly well everywhere, while the more moderate Ds floundered.

AOC was pretty clear with her post so you should probably reread it. Its not a progressives/moderates thing but a how did you reach out to your supporters, did you put in the effort, spend the resources, on the right media, did you utilize 21st century media, etc. AOC has worked to make connections with the younger generation and used modern forms of communication to get her message out so people see it.

I really have no idea how Bernie would have done. The right wing have their propaganda apparatus and the ability to make him into an axe murderer if they wanted. There is a very solid ceiling of around 60ish% support for anything outside of Trumpism or Fox News talking points. Progressive ideas have good popularity even though their candidates struggle in red states.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Platystemon posted:

Turnout was the highest it’s been in one score and one hundred years. What more do you want?

The narrative after 2016 was that people were unhappy with “the system” and Trump promised to radically reorder it. A lot of people went for that.

That doesn’t explain the millions of extra votes he got this time. Who looks at four years of DJT policies and says “I wasn’t keen on voting for him when he was running against Hillary Clinton in 2016, but these last four years? I want more of that.”


You’re right. It’s only ninety‐three percent of Republicans, up from ninety percent in the prior election.

Take a look at Republican spaces and its pretty obvious. Its like looking in a red mirror. All the lying and bullshit disappears, they glorify Trump as a muscle bound God that is here to clear the way to Freedom with a huge cock. Their talking points are almost verbatim with the Democrats when it comes to talking about elections, crimes, lies, etc. Its amazing.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Nystral posted:

I’ve always framed it as a Biden Presidency was going to be largely focused on unwinding the crap that Trump has done. Not just in restoring our relationships, but rebuilding the nation’s soft power and basically bringing the nation back to a place roughly analogous to 2015 or so Obama.

Yes, this is not great, but it is progress from where we are today. I have no illusions that a Biden / Harris admin will defund ICE or anything of the sort. He’s going to be a caretaker ala Ford and hopefully just be a footnote in history largely glossed over when people talk about the last 75 years or whatever.

I’m very keen to hear about his cabinet nominees and who fills State, Justice, Commerce, and Energy.

This has been my thought. Biden could have the furthest left platform possible but would still spend most of his time just bringing government back to the status quo from Obama. The damage done has been extensive and will take a lot to rectify. If he is able to accomplish this and maybe some minor reforms he will have overachieved. He needs to rebuild faith in science, the government and the DNC, manage a pandemic, an economy held together by duct tape and a motivated minority party. He can't lose the house in 22 and has to generate enthusiasm for the Democratic platform in 24. That's a huge, difficult list.

I was very disappointed Tuesday but am fairly hopeful now. A more inexperienced politician would probably struggle in these conditions.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

DurosKlav posted:

Theres no way in hell Biden will run in 2024 imo, he'll be in his 80s if he survives his first term. If they trot his old rear end out there again they would just be handing the election to whatever POS the GOP puts forward. It will probably happen if they put Kamala out there as well.

Thought he already said he was only doing one term but I'm too lazy to Google it so please poo poo on me if I'm wrong TIA

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
Trumps numbers jump whenever he shuts up for any length of time. He could have ghosted October and won the election by 10+ points.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Fister Roboto posted:

I don't buy into the fearmongering that Trump was going to somehow make himself dictator if he just won a second term. You can say that a second Trump would have been bad, but you don't have to veer into fantasy land.

Our government relies on unwritten norms and decorum among the politicians, and trust by the citizens among other things. Their breakdown is a self-reinforcing cycle and I think the structure is a lot more unstable now than it was 20 years ago.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
All my conservative contacts moving to Parler in a huff. A little worried considering most of them were posting pre-election wondering how Trump could lose since all they saw was MAGA signs and 90% of their friends were Trump supporters. The echo chamber is just going to get stronger.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

orange juche posted:

System is hosed, but it can't be changed so why bother, I guess?

Your cause/effect/proposed solution/desired outcome/actual outcome aren't aligned is what he is saying.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

bird food bathtub posted:

The left will never have a propaganda machine to rival Fox and poo poo like that. There's billionaires willing to fund the GOP media empire for messaging purposes and personal profit. Anything on the other side would cost them money.

So we're hosed, is what I'm saying. It's a battle that will never even be started much less won.

Maybe if you try to counter them with the same format. They have several decades head start and a resource advantage. One of the messages AOC has been trying to get through is that there are other options and many Dems don't take advantage of them or even try them out. Obama managed to overcome the propaganda with a grass roots effort as she pointed out.

Otherwise I guess just giving up now is a valid option.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
Democracy was new and they didn't have a lot of stuff to go off of. That's why they made it changeable so we could adapt it and iron out the wrinkles. So far all we've done is adapt the founding fathers words and misinterpreted them to fit the required narrative.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Grip it and rip it posted:

Yeah that's definitely the kind of position where you want to start forming a potential backup plan immediately.

Project 2025 plans to use loyalty to Trump as the qualifier for being a federal employee if he is elected. You either kneel, kiss the ring, and ascribe to MAGA ideals or youre out.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
Michelle Obama is still the correct choice.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply