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CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


Okay, there are enough Cortex games out there that we should probably have an effort post. Especially since the most recent iteration (arguably the third edition, ish) was just released.

WHAT IS CORTEX?
Cortex, or Cortex Prime, is a dice-pool narrative role playing game. It's got a long and storied history (though not particularly so by RPG standards). Currently, it's owned by Fandom, who bought it from Cam Banks. It is generally understood that Fandom (of Wikia fame) saw all the money they were making from D&D Beyond (they make that, too) and realized if they had a house system, they'd make more money.

The Core Mechanic. This is a tough one, because Cortex is a modular system, so no two Cortex games play quite the same. This isn't entirely bullshit. At its core, a game of Cortex involves assembling a pool of rated Traits. You might have a d10 in Social, a d6 in Intimidate, a d12 in Justice, and a d8 Damning Piece of Evidence, and roll them. You take the two highest, and that's your Total. If the effect isn't merely binary but rated, then you may use any die not used in creating your Total and count it as your Effect Die. So you might have a 14 with a d8 Effect Die, which trumps a 14 with a d6 Effect Die but loses to a 15 with a d4 Effect Die.

Difficulty is added the the opposing roll. Complications (like "handcuffed" or "embarassed") are as well. Some games use Stress tracks - those are rated in dice and added to the opposing roll as well. Ones are bad, they cause bad things to happen.

Obviously, there's a meta-currency.

There are a lot of different "mods" for the game, which can effect whether the GM uses the same core mechanic, what kind of structure action/combat scenes have, etc.

If you wanted to fix a car engine, looking at past games using the system, you might roll...
  • Hacker + Intelligence in Leverage
  • Justice "I do what must be done" + Clark Kent "is my friend" in Smallville
  • Mental + Fix in Firefly
  • ... I'm not sure why you're fixing a car engine in Marvel Heroic, but probably Tech Mastery + Super Intelligence?
Every version of the game uses a Trait set called a Distinction. You have three, they're narrative phrases. Black Widow of the Marvel Universe, for example, has Dangerous Liaisons, Natural Leader, and Russian Superspy, whereas Jayne from Firefly would have Crude, Family Ties, and Mercenary.

From the outside, it's a bit messy. Take a look at this "rules menu" some people use to make sure they're considering all the mods. From inside a given game, it's actually really smooth and easy.

Want to see it in action? Hammerheads, one of the three settings in the game, is freely available here. It's a game of non-violent adventure where the players are a team of emergency rescuers. Think Thunderbirds, but modern and not puppets.

CORTEX PRIME
Arguably the third edition of Cortex. It was released in October of 2020. You can buy it in hardback or PDF, though the hardback comes with a PDF. Both versions also come with a fully searchable, responsive compendium of the rules. Think FateSRD but with all the fluff, charts, and art. The Hammerheads link above gives you a good idea of what the Compendium is like,

There are two announced games right now - Tales of Xadia (based on the Netflix Dragon Prince show) and Legends of Grayskull, for all your He-Man and She-Ra needs (all versions).

Remember when I said that from the outside, it's messy? That's the only way to see Cortex Prime right now. As of yet there are currently no games in a box, other than Hammerheads. So unless your GM is planning on hacking together a game for you, it's a bit of work if you're not familiar with the system.

CORTEX PLUS
The previous edition was arguably the golden age of Cortex. Cortex Prime is essentially a distillation of the four Plus games into a singular vision.

Marvel Heroic Roleplaying. One of the best superheroic role playing games of all time. (I would argue the best narrative role playing game of all time.) The license was yanked prematurely, which made its life short-lived, but it's brilliant. Cheap on ebay (at the time of the writing). An iteration of Cortex Plus Heroic. Had a full-fledged line of Civil War books and a copy of Annihilation existed as a PDF for a month.

Occasionally derided for not having a robust enough character generation system (the official rules in the core book were "make it up, based on what you see in the comics and referencing the suite of heroes we've provided here!"), the book came with an okay random hero generation system in the supplements.

Trait sets rolled by players include an Affiliation (Solo, Buddy, or Team), a Power die or two (Godlike Strength or Superhuman Reflexes or Lightning Mastery), Distinctions, and relevant Skill Masteries (Combat or Technology or Business).

Firefly Role-playing Game. Probably the most "traditional" of the four Cortex Plus games, this Cortex Plus Action game and its supplements are pretty accessible rules-wise, though the tone is written in cowpoke-speak which makes it mildly unbearable (in my opinion).

While not as quite as deep as WEG's Star Wars, this line adds a lot of lore to the Firefly universe.

Trait sets rolled by players include Affiliation (Mental, Physical, Social), Distinctions, and Skills (the traditional set).

Smallville Roleplaying Game. This is, in my opinion, easily the best RPG to play in a CW television show of all time. (It's a niche, but it's a good one.) How do you make a game where one person is Superman, and another is regular teenager whose special powers are that they're particularly well-liked?

You make the game about Values and Relationships. Sure, Clark Kent can shoot laser beams through walls. But that's not going to help him get a date to prom or pass his exams.

Trait sets players choose from include the aforementioned Values (Justice, Glory) and Relationships (with other PCs or NPCs), as well as Distinctions. This was the iteration called Cortex Plus Drama.

Character generation uses a lifepath system that not only creates cool characters as a group but works as a mini-game in and of itself to generate a web of intrigue and NPCs with sinister agendas.

Leverage The Role Playing Game. All that stuff you love about Blades in the Dark? Flashbacks, hyper competent characters, starting missions when they're already one-third over with everything going sideways?

Leverage did it first.

This was the first Cortex Plus game, also a version of Cortex Plus Action. However, it used different traits. D&D style Characteristics (Strength, Agility), Roles (Hitter, Grifter), and Distinctions.

Cortex Plus Hacker's Guide. Not a game, but a resource. This is the ur-Prime. A distillation of the three rules sets (Action, Heroic, and Drama) with their respective IPs stripped out. Tons of example genres, essays from luminaries. My understanding was that this was a small Kickstarter that ballooned into a monstrous tome. That being said, it's worth hunting down if you can find it - a lot of the insight in the book is currently missing in Prime.

CORTEX CLASSIC

Retroactively called Cortex Classic, the first edition of Cortex was a lot more like traditional role playing games of the time. Life points and gear lists. But the underlying dice mechanics (of rated dice and rolling them together to get a total) are very much the DNA of Cortex.

Serenity. Not Firefly, Serenity. Just the movie. Different game. Not as good.

Battlestar Galactica. Never played it, can't speak to it.

Supernatural Role Playing Game. I still have PTSD from Supernatural going on as long as it did. I own this, but I can't open it.

START THREAD

That's Cortex. I feel like this system merits its own thread, so I started one.

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Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

careful now


I would never have guessed

quote:

Justice "I do what must be done" + Clark Kent "is my friend"

for fixing a car, but I havenít read the system...

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010



I love free-form trait-y games, but I'm struggling with the rulebook and what feels like an overwhelming number of moving parts, even though it looks like it should be relatively simple. It's kinda like learning Bridge - you can't do step 1) do this step 2) do that, you've gotta take it sideways and learn it all at once.

Hiro Protagonist
Oct 25, 2010

Last of the freelance hackers and
Greatest swordfighter in the world


Real excited for Tales of Xadia. The prestige they gave the announcement made it seem like it was something the creators were 100% behind rather than the cash grab that a lot of licensed games end up being.

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


Subjunctive posted:

I would never have guessed


for fixing a car, but I havenít read the system...

Smallville is all about why you're doing something.

So the primary Trait sets are Values and Relationships.

Value choices are Duty, Glory, Justice, Love, Power, and Truth. Relationships are who is in the game.

So, if you're fixing your car because you need to get to the dance to help Clark, you're doing what must be done to help your friend Clark. If those things are important to you, you'd roll big dice. If they're not as important to you, you roll smaller dice.

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


Strom Cuzewon posted:

I love free-form trait-y games, but I'm struggling with the rulebook and what feels like an overwhelming number of moving parts, even though it looks like it should be relatively simple. It's kinda like learning Bridge - you can't do step 1) do this step 2) do that, you've gotta take it sideways and learn it all at once.

Yeah, as noted, it's a bit messy unless you're looking at it from "within" a game. I might suggest Hammerheads? (Which is free.)

I feel like this is the kind of thing that was one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenarios. Cam Banks pitched a Kickstarter for this Prime book - he was a solo dev with no IPs to his name, this seemed like something a core, dedicated Cortex fanbase wanted. Then Fandom bought Cortex and brought Banks on board. Now, Fandom's in a weird position. Do they release a game first (that they have to license and design), pissing off a lot of core Cortex fans? Or do they release the promised book, which is not a fantastic introduction to Cortex if you're not already on board.

Leraika
Jun 14, 2015

slime time



Leverage is something that very much excites me, both because I'm a big fan of the show and because I liked what I saw of the system, but has anyone here played it? It'd be interesting to see how it works in practice.

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


Leraika posted:

Leverage is something that very much excites me, both because I'm a big fan of the show and because I liked what I saw of the system, but has anyone here played it? It'd be interesting to see how it works in practice.

I have. I haven't played any of the Classic games, but I've played all the Plus games.

Leverage is real smooth. It's probably the easiest of the Plus games to get in to (mechanically). Ask away, I'll try and answer.

Lurks With Wolves
Jan 14, 2013

At least I don't dance with them, right?


CitizenKeen posted:

Smallville is all about why you're doing something.

Also the game's about superhuman soap opera drama, so you won't be doing that's much worth rolling for that you can't tie back to your motivations and people you know.

Harkano
Jun 5, 2005



CitizenKeen posted:

Marvel Heroic Roleplaying. One of the best superheroic role playing games of all time. (I would argue the best narrative role playing game of all time.) The license was yanked prematurely, which made its life short-lived, but it's brilliant. Cheap on ebay (at the time of the writing). An iteration of Cortex Plus Heroic. Had a full-fledged line of Civil War books and a copy of Annihilation existed as a PDF for a month.

Occasionally derided for not having a robust enough character generation system (the official rules in the core book were "make it up, based on what you see in the comics and referencing the suite of heroes we've provided here!"), the book came with an okay random hero generation system in the supplements.

Trait sets rolled by players include an Affiliation (Solo, Buddy, or Team), a Power die or two (Godlike Strength or Superhuman Reflexes or Lightning Mastery), Distinctions, and relevant Skill Masteries (Combat or Technology or Business).

Would love to hear your thoughts on this compared to PBTA Masks, if you're familiar? This sounds really cool for grown up heroes.

Also wow on She-ra and Dragon Prince games, what fantastic licences to have grabbed!

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


Harkano posted:

Would love to hear your thoughts on this compared to PBTA Masks, if you're familiar? This sounds really cool for grown up heroes.

I've played a lot of MHRP and am converting my Sentinel Comics campaign to MHRP. I've also played a fair amount of Masks.

Cortex is not PbtA, but they're quite similar.

Narratively, Masks is very much about one kind of supers game and the relationships and feelings those teenagers are going through. If I wanted to do a Masks game with Cortex (which you could), I would use a more Smallville-y Cortex. MHRP is very much about Marvel comics and the stories the main lines want to tell. I'd say it's the second-most faithful adaptation of the feel of a source material, after Star Trek Adventures.

Mechanically, Cortex is a little crunchier. It's still very narrative. But in PbtA, you describe what's up, trigger a move, roll dice, and interpret the outcome, and interpreting the outcome can take a bit of table discussion.

In Cortex, you describe what's up, the GM calls for some dice, you build your dice pool and manipulate it with game mechanics, roll dice, and interpret the outcome, and interpreting the outcome can take a bit of table discussion.

Playing "grownup Masks" with MHRP is a strong option, though you may find you want more "feelings" in your Cortex game than MHRP supports out of the box. But again, see Smallville, etc.

Harkano
Jun 5, 2005



CitizenKeen posted:

I've played a lot of MHRP and am converting my Sentinel Comics campaign to MHRP. I've also played a fair amount of Masks.

Cortex is not PbtA, but they're quite similar.

Narratively, Masks is very much about one kind of supers game and the relationships and feelings those teenagers are going through. If I wanted to do a Masks game with Cortex (which you could), I would use a more Smallville-y Cortex. MHRP is very much about Marvel comics and the stories the main lines want to tell. I'd say it's the second-most faithful adaptation of the feel of a source material, after Star Trek Adventures.

Mechanically, Cortex is a little crunchier. It's still very narrative. But in PbtA, you describe what's up, trigger a move, roll dice, and interpret the outcome, and interpreting the outcome can take a bit of table discussion.

In Cortex, you describe what's up, the GM calls for some dice, you build your dice pool and manipulate it with game mechanics, roll dice, and interpret the outcome, and interpreting the outcome can take a bit of table discussion.

Playing "grownup Masks" with MHRP is a strong option, though you may find you want more "feelings" in your Cortex game than MHRP supports out of the box. But again, see Smallville, etc.

Appreciate this. I played a campaign of the original Firefly RPG back in the day, so it's amazing to see how much the system has grown and expanded since then.

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


Harkano posted:

Appreciate this. I played a campaign of the original Firefly RPG back in the day, so it's amazing to see how much the system has grown and expanded since then.

Yeah, at this point, the breadth of IP it can do justice do is pretty insane.

TK_Nyarlathotep
Jun 3, 2016

Ban-thing the man-things.

Hrhgnrhg I'm glad this fuckin thread is here. I'm glad Cortex is alive enough again to have this thread. I'll be much much much more glad when we have, like, half the stuff promised in the Kickstarter (including my very own Titans Vs. Leviathans: All-Out War For Earth in the Spotlights). I'd have been yet gladder still if we'd gotten all that BEFORE He-Man and Dragon Prince took all eyes.

C'est la vie, cuz Cortex is BACK BABY. For all the badfeels and hurt that came from this stuff (and my own dwindling mind, I imagine), I am genuinely excited to get on the rest of the release materials, and genuinely excited to do stuff especially in He-Man. He-Man is something I didn't even think of as being inspirational until someone applied the Cortex lens to it, then it suddenly became the only game I know to capture that very specific "cyborgs and mutants vs. pulp fantasy heroes in an insane comic book universe" feel. I'm excited for the future!!!

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


I will be very, very happy when Fandom can leave behind the Kickstarter. Serving two masters makes nobody happy.

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


https://twitter.com/CortexRPG/statu...719170971471872

It has generally been my experience that when a company starts doing weekly streams, the marketing is about to get underway.

Leraika
Jun 14, 2015

slime time



CitizenKeen posted:

I have. I haven't played any of the Classic games, but I've played all the Plus games.

Leverage is real smooth. It's probably the easiest of the Plus games to get in to (mechanically). Ask away, I'll try and answer.

It took me forever to remember I'd posted in this thread whoooooooooooooops.

Anyway I guess the biggest question is 'how well does the game handle everything going to poo poo and not in a fun leverage way'.

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


Leraika posted:

Anyway I guess the biggest question is 'how well does the game handle everything going to poo poo and not in a fun leverage way'.

Can you elaborate on the question? I'm not quite sure what you mean. Failure is always super fun.

neonchameleon
Nov 14, 2012





Leraika posted:

Leverage is something that very much excites me, both because I'm a big fan of the show and because I liked what I saw of the system, but has anyone here played it? It'd be interesting to see how it works in practice.

Leverage does exactly what it says - but you want a genre fan to not only GM but play the Mastermind to run it as written. It's one of the only three issues I have it; the other one is that for a campaign Blades in the Dark is a better game - but only because it takes most of the best parts of Leverage and mixes them with some of the best parts of Apocalypse World. The final issue I have with Leverage is that it's out of print and you can't even buy PDFs of it legally these days. If the 2010s are the decade of easy to play, easy to improvise GMing, rules light success-with-consequences games with single page character sheets and no looking things up in the rulebook that take literal minutes to teach then Leverage was one of the two games to open the decade in 2010 (the other, of course, being Apocalypse World).

Yes, I've run it. I keep it as a back pocket game for one-shots rather than using it as a campaign game although normally use two hacks - I prefer the FAQs to the almost archaic six-stats inherited from Cortex Classic and the basic consequence dice (or whatever it's called) being a d8 rather than a d6. For a long term game I'd use Blades in the Dark, which has a much better crew and campaign sheet - but for a one shot I'll still use Leverage.

On that note I find Firefly my best game for a light ensemble comedy game - if I was running a Ghostbusters game I'd use Firefly. You can't die, but consequences can escalate and d4s lead to lots of consequences.

The newer Cortex+ Firefly and the older Classic Cortex Serenity game may be in the same universe but are about as different as D&D 3.5 and Dungeon World. No system should have a stat of d12+d2 and Classic Cortex is annoyingly fiddly.

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


neonchameleon posted:

Leverage does exactly what it says - but you want a genre fan to not only GM but play the Mastermind to run it as written. It's one of the only three issues I have it; the other one is that for a campaign Blades in the Dark is a better game - but only because it takes most of the best parts of Leverage and mixes them with some of the best parts of Apocalypse World. The final issue I have with Leverage is that it's out of print and you can't even buy PDFs of it legally these days. If the 2010s are the decade of easy to play, easy to improvise GMing, rules light success-with-consequences games with single page character sheets and no looking things up in the rulebook that take literal minutes to teach then Leverage was one of the two games to open the decade in 2010 (the other, of course, being Apocalypse World).

Yeah, Blades definitely benefits from having a campaign framework. When we discuss "the state of the art", that's something I'd like to see more games tackle (including Cortex).

Cortex does struggle with any kind of "numbers go up" campaign advancement. All of its games have been about IPs that leverage "characters can change but not grow" TV/comic tropes. It'll be interesting to see, now that there's going to be a way for people to release their own poo poo, how the community either embraces or changes that paradigm.

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


Not that I want to be lowering my chances by increasing the applicant pool, but hey - Covok's running a Cortex Prime My Hero Academia game.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...hreadid=3949446

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


I think it might be a good time to link all of my hacks for the system. I have been on vacation since the 19th and I made a lot of Cortex Prime Hacks out of boredom.

Star Wars Prime
I actually made this one right after the book first dropped. It's a lot rougher because of the fact it was the first hack I made. It's based on the d6 Star Wars game by West End games and goes for their more modular design. Not my proudest game, though. Don't judge the others based on this one.

Soul Empire
This is actually another one I made a long time ago. It's a bit messy as well. It's off-brand Kingdom Hearts with the idea that it can touch any licensed property.

Exalted: Blood And Fire - Fan Exalt - Nocturnals
This hack is actually a supplement to the amazing Exalted: Blood And Fire hack by Jeremy Puckett. It's a hack for players to make the fan favorite fan-Exalt, Nocturnals. These Exalts are based on time travel, hopping universes, and other possibility shenanigans.

Fallout New Vegas: Prime
Fallout New Vegas is my favorite Fallout game. It has a fleshed out world, solid mechanics, and so many little details that every replay is a treat. This hack tries to emulate the game using Life Points, Talents, and a few other less used Cortex mechanics.

Giant Corporate Owned Superhero Comics Heroic Roleplaying
Want to play Marvel Heroic Roleplaying but can't find the book and don't want to pirate? This hack is a retroclone that tells you which models to use to remake MHR in Cortex Prime.

Social Justice Superheroes
After discussing my issues with how superhero have become "supercops" (a discussion influenced by Aubrey Stitterson and pointing out My Hero Academia's flaws), I decided to work on a game about leftist superheroes. Social Justice Superheroes explores a world where superheroes were once progressive, until conservatism invaded their space and took over. Superheroes then became another arm of fascist suppression. Recently, a figure tried to fight against this and was publicly murdered for it by a white supremacist superbeing, who was given pardon by the US government. Martyred, a new age of superheroes who are focused on actually protecting their communities have risen to fight against the conservative, fascist forces the dominate society. It's based on MHR, but personalized to a more HBO vibe. Most notably, this led to adopting Abilities, instead of Powers, and making a complex Reputation system to marginalized communities.

My Hero Academia
Ironically, I followed that up by making a My Hero Academia game, since the prior idea was made by pointing out its flaws. Just like the last one, it is made by personalizing MHR to fit its mood and themes.

Fallen Angel
This hack was originally a setting for Valor. It is based on an idea I had, which was attempting to remake Bleach but with western cultural elements. It then became your classic "anime does christianity" weird setting, with a lot of shonen elements, gnoscism, and some "God is Dead" elements.

Dragon Age Prime
A dark fantasy hacked based on Dragon Age. It's my only attempt to use Archetypes to mimic classes. It is similar to Fallout New Vegas, in some ways, as it uses Talents, Life Points, etc. to mimic the video game-y origins of the license. Also, a user going by "German Sanders" made an awesome character sheet for it!

DC Heroic Roleplaying
One size does not fit all in superheroes. A lot of people tried to work DC back into MHR, back in the day, but it had issues. Marvel has people, DC has legends. I leaned into that, as well as issues I had with Marvel overall, to make a hack focused specifically on playing in the DC universe. Values, ideal stress, etc.

Dragonball Prime
Dragonball has been a joking benchmark in the superhero rpg world, alongside "can you put Batman and Superman on the same team in this game." I love Dragonball and tried my best to emulate its narrate rules in this hack. Most notably by using Power Level to handle the Saga power structure using the Multi-Level Scale mechanics.

If you want to see even more hacks, I started a spreadsheet on the subreddit on r/CortexRPG for people to link their own hacks. So far, people have been linking all their hacks in there. It really helps people find a diverse range of potential games using the Cortex engine.

Covok fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Nov 30, 2020

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





I feel like you could do Fate/Stay Night in Cortex but I keep bouncing off it.

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


https://twitch.tv/videos/823527023?t=538s

The first Cortex Prime Time is out. Some thoughts as I watch it.
  • I respect the deep dive in to the Margaret Weis history. Possible coattail riding, depending on your level of cynicism.
  • The ability to use Cortex Creator Studio to make products for the licensed material (i.e., sell your He-Man adventures) seems big and not previously mentioned
  • The comparison to WEG's Star Wars, where the Fandom's license will allow them to contribute to canon is also kind of crazy to hear
  • I was not aware of plans for organized play, so that's news to me
  • Actual Organized play progression is by player, not character. That's a choice with both good and bad implications
  • Licensed art for Xadia, Masters of the Universe is all new art

There's a lot of far horizon type stuff (like a roadmap that includes virtual tabletop), but that's too far out to give too much credence to, yet.

CitizenKeen fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Dec 4, 2020

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Covok posted:


DC Heroic Roleplaying
One size does not fit all in superheroes. A lot of people tried to work DC back into MHR, back in the day, but it had issues. Marvel has people, DC has legends. I leaned into that, as well as issues I had with Marvel overall, to make a hack focused specifically on playing in the DC universe. Values, ideal stress, etc.

If you want to see even more hacks, I started a spreadsheet on the subreddit on r/CortexRPG for people to link their own hacks. So far, people have been linking all their hacks in there. It really helps people find a diverse range of potential games using the Cortex engine.

Ooooo thanks for this, excellent.

TK_Nyarlathotep
Jun 3, 2016

Ban-thing the man-things.

CitizenKeen posted:

[*]The ability to use Cortex Creator Studio to make products for the licensed material (i.e., sell your He-Man adventures) seems big and not previously mentioned
[*]The comparison to WEG's Star Wars, where the Fandom's license will allow them to contribute to canon is also kind of crazy to hear
[*]I was not aware of plans for organized play, so that's news to me

[*][*]Licensed art for Xadia, Masters of the Universe is all new art
[/list]

There's a lot of far horizon type stuff (like a roadmap that includes virtual tabletop), but that's too far out to give too much credence to, yet.

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CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant


https://twitch.tv/videos/824676754?t=928s

First official Actual Play is out.

(Though if you're not watching Into the Motherlands, that's really solid as well.)

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