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CocoaNuts
Jun 12, 2020


Ovi needs 189 more goals to become the NHL's most prolific scorer in forever.

Gretzky: 1487 NHL games played/894 goals

Ovehckin: 1152 NHL games played/706 goals


Jaromir Jagr is now a believer that the Great 8 will overtake the Great One, conditionally, at least.





And if Ovechkin does set the mark, will you consider him the greatest goal scorer in history based on sheer numbers alone, or is there an argument still to be made for Gretzky?

CocoaNuts fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Nov 24, 2020

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DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



He's at least got a shot at it, depending on how long seasons will be allowed to be and obviously how his health holds up.


Ovi's for drat sure the best goal scorer in a long time, but I feel like comparing him to Gretzky is always going to be a little awkward because the game has changed so much between their respective times.

Twin Cinema
Jun 1, 2006



Playoffs are no big deal,
don't have a crap attack.


Pre-COVID, I thought Ovechkin had a much better shot than I did a year earlier. It took him putting up ~50 goal seasons as a 32-34 year old for me to believe he has a shot. But, how likely is it that he continues this pace? I don't have access to Play Index anymore, but I remember looking it up, and the only person older than Ovie to put up a 50-goal season was Bucyk (who did it on one of the highest scoring teams of all-time). 189 is a pretty large number to catch up to, and it would take a combination of normal seasons returning, healthy play, him to play he is older, and to keep up a steady decline. Is it doable? Well, if anyone will, it's Ovie. But, will he? Probably not.

Is he the greatest goal scorer of all-time? I am unsure, but he probably has to be at this point. Although, some old-timer is going to come in and yell about Mike Bossy or Pavel Bure.

We are blessed that we have got to enjoy Ovechkin's career. We were robbed of some of Crosby's best seasons because of injury. I am hoping McDavid can stay healthy.

Call Your Grandma
Jan 17, 2010



He will come close but I don't think he'll be able to beat Gretzer on this record.
Same on the record for amount of times willingly used in propaganda for his home country's right-wing head of state.

Twin Cinema
Jun 1, 2006



Playoffs are no big deal,
don't have a crap attack.


To expand this thread a little bit, I have been interested in thinking where Ovechkin and Crosby will end up with their career totals.

Crosby is already 39th in points. Ovechkin is 36th. They are at the point where another 2 good, healthy seasons could see them in the top-20.

It will also be interesting to see where people consider them in an all-time sense. Crosby has a really good shot at being considered the best player after the top-4 of Gretzky, Orr, Howe, and Lemieux. Ovechkin is a little harder to place. He'll probably be in the top-20, but I am unsure how much higher he can get.

GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

Coal Jobs for the Coal God



If he is willing to play as long as Jagr did and just kinda be a shell of his former self for 5-7 years to scrap by, I see it as very possible. I never realized he was that close (but 200 goals isn't really that close.)

CocoaNuts
Jun 12, 2020


Sid the Kid (not as much of a kid anymore at age 33, not by hockey standards anyway) has 1,263 career points in 984 games, for an average of 1.28 points per game.

Ovechkin, even older at 35, has 1,278 career points in 1,152 games, for an average of 1.1 points per game.

Lemieux wound up with 1,723 points in 915 games, for 1.88 points per game.

Gretzky finished his career with 2,857 points in 1,487 NHL games, for an average of 1.92 points per game.


Yeah, different eras. But I have a hard time believing that either Crosby or Ovechkin could rack up the same points per game rate even if they played during the same decades as Gretzky and Lemieux.

Call Your Grandma
Jan 17, 2010



what if they played on the same teams as gretzky and lemieux though? i bet they could do it.

ThinkTank
Oct 23, 2007



He won't and it's unlikely he scores even the 97 needed to move him to 2nd all time. He's 35 and facing yet another shortened season. That's three more 30 goal seasons minimum, the first of which (presumably his most productive) will likely be 48 games max. He'd be one of only a small handful of guys to have 30 goals after age 35 and he'd still be 92 short of Gretzky so he'd have to do it three more times. Realistically he'd have to be a star level producer until his age 42 season and only 18 guys have even made it that far and essentially none of them provided any meaningful offence.

If he'd been a few days older and hadn't lived through a lockout and soon to be three shortened seasons he might have had a shot but fate intervened. It's a nice thought but there's no way Ovie even approaches Wayne's record.

ThinkTank fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Nov 28, 2020

clean ayers act
Aug 13, 2007

How do I shot puck!?

I thought he would before COVID shortened last season and this one. Even if the NHL gets 60 games there's still a chance that Ovie misses some if he contracts it and goes on a COVID list or whatever
He's also been extremely lucky with his health so far and it seems unlikely that will last as he gets older. Even Lidstrom started missing games as he got older and he hardly played a bruising style

Aggro
Apr 24, 2003

STRONG as an OX and TWICE as SMART


I would've considered him a lock for it if not for last season and the forthcoming one being shortened by COVID. If he scores 34 next year, that still leaves him 165 goals short and 36 years old. He'd probably have to play 7 or 8 more years to surpass Gretzky, and while he certainly could, I'm not sure that he would have any desire to play into his mid-40's.

ThinkTank
Oct 23, 2007



He has been bizarrely healthy throughout his career, but at his age he's likely one serious shoulder injury away from being entirely ineffective.

DOOMocrat
Oct 2, 2003



The NHL doesn't use WADA, you're a long vacation in Eastern Europe away from rehabbing anything.

Zogo
Jul 29, 2003



CocoaNuts posted:

And if Ovechkin does set the mark, will you consider him the greatest goal scorer in history based on sheer numbers alone, or is there an argument still to be made for Gretzky?

I doubt he will reach #1 in these two categories. Current top ten in GC and GC/A:

code:
Player		Years	Goals Created
Wayne Gretzky	1979-99	1018.37
Gordie Howe	1946-80	747.01
Jaromir Jagr	1990-18	717.53
Mark Messier	1979-04	703.78
Marcel Dionne	1971-89	684.08
Steve Yzerman	1983-06	665.79
Mario Lemieux	1984-06	649.71
Ron Francis	1981-04	634.65
Phil Esposito	1963-81	629.66
Joe Sakic	1988-09	611.28


Player		Years	Adjusted Goals Created
Wayne Gretzky	1979-99	881.74
Gordie Howe	1946-80	849.56
Jaromir Jagr	1990-18	796.62
Mark Messier	1979-04	643.63
Joe Sakic	1988-09	633.27
Teemu Selanne	1992-14	628.91
Steve Yzerman	1983-06	625.66
Ron Francis	1981-04	607.89
Alex Ovechkin	2005-20	604.38
Phil Esposito	1963-81	594.26
GC = (Goals + (Assists * 0.5)) * (Team Goals / (Team Goals + (Team Assists * 0.5)))

Duck Rodgers
Oct 9, 2012


Who cares about assists? What are you Adam Oates? Ovechkin score goals

CocoaNuts
Jun 12, 2020


Duck Rodgers posted:

Who cares about assists? What are you Adam Oates? Ovechkin score goals


Reminded me of...

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001




CocoaNuts posted:

Sid the Kid (not as much of a kid anymore at age 33, not by hockey standards anyway) has 1,263 career points in 984 games, for an average of 1.28 points per game.

Ovechkin, even older at 35, has 1,278 career points in 1,152 games, for an average of 1.1 points per game.

Lemieux wound up with 1,723 points in 915 games, for 1.88 points per game.

Gretzky finished his career with 2,857 points in 1,487 NHL games, for an average of 1.92 points per game.


Yeah, different eras. But I have a hard time believing that either Crosby or Ovechkin could rack up the same points per game rate even if they played during the same decades as Gretzky and Lemieux.

All this makes me do is wish Lemieux had been able to play even close to as many games as Gretzky.

Zogo
Jul 29, 2003



Duck Rodgers posted:

Who cares about assists? What are you Adam Oates? Ovechkin score goals

What do you mean? I find it at least noteworthy that Wayne Gretzky has 700+ more assists than anyone else.

Duck Rodgers
Oct 9, 2012


Zogo posted:

What do you mean? I find it at least noteworthy that Wayne Gretzky has 700+ more assists than anyone else.

Gretzky is a nerd who wears a scarf while watching another guy shoot hole-in-ones. Ovechkin shoots hole-in-ones himself. That's what makes Ovechking the best goal scorer

Jackie D
May 27, 2009

Democracy is like a tambourine - not everyone can be trusted with it.



Yes he will OP

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Tom Gorman
Apr 30, 2004

Out here, everything hurts




I think he does it

Duck Rodgers posted:

Who cares about assists? What are you Adam Oates? Ovechkin score goals

Whoa whoa slow down, there's no reason to accuse people of being Adam Oates irl. Lets all pump the brakes here

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