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Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

Ok so I was having a discussion online with a guy who claimed to be an Amazon worker and he said “Sure, I’d go on strike if you were gonna feed my kids while I was on the picket line.”

And it got me thinking... what if we like... did?

What if there were a charity or gofundme or something that would donate money to Amazon workers to keep them supported while on strike?

There’s enough tender-hearted and socially conscious people out there to toss a few bucks down an Amazon worker’s way to support them while they strike, and if they went on strike during the Christmas season Amazon would fold faster than Superman on laundry day.

Thoughts?

Any web designers in the house?

Probably too short term to work this Christmas but maybe next.

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sweet thursday
Sep 16, 2012



I've been on the picket line for months and it cost me thousands of dollars. We didn't fold, but we had a strong union and a healthy strike fund to help keep our heads above water.

Money is only one aspect of it, though. You need strong solidarity and belief in what you're doing. Thabks I'll hang up and listen.

gary oldmans diary
Sep 26, 2005



skinner said the amazon workers will crack any minute

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

sweet thursday posted:

I've been on the picket line for months and it cost me thousands of dollars. We didn't fold, but we had a strong union and a healthy strike fund to help keep our heads above water.

Money is only one aspect of it, though. You need strong solidarity and belief in what you're doing. Thabks I'll hang up and listen.

Exactly. Amazon workers don't have a union because anyone who even whispers about unionization gets fired and then beat up by Pinkerton agents. But with a gofundme thing acting as an ersatz strike fund, maybe it would buy them the breathing room they need to organize?

GABA ghoul
Oct 29, 2011

You're all I think, this thing set troublin


While indiegogo is a great alternative to a public healthcare systems, I don't think it's gonna work the same way with unions. Like, let's say a warehouse has 5k employees. Half of them strike for 15 days and need 2k before taxes to feed their families during the strike. That's 5 mio dollars you need in the strike fund. If your average indiegogo donation is something like $10 that's 500k donors you need to get on board. I dunno

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

GABA ghoul posted:

While indiegogo is a great alternative to a public healthcare systems, I don't think it's gonna work the same way with unions. Like, let's say a warehouse has 5k employees. Half of them strike for 15 days and need 2k before taxes to feed their families during the strike. That's 5 mio dollars you need in the strike fund. If your average indiegogo donation is something like $10 that's 500k donors you need to get on board. I dunno

There's gotta be more than 500k people who would be willing to throw a few bucks in. If this "went viral" as the kids say, there'd be millions of people tossing money in.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

Goons with experience in both striking and community organization pls chime in because I know gently caress all about both. This was just a shower epiphany.

sweet thursday
Sep 16, 2012



You also need a lot of money for a legal team for when you inevitably get hit with injunctions that limit your ability to affect the company's day to day activities in any real way

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

sweet thursday posted:

You also need a lot of money for a legal team for when you inevitably get hit with injunctions that limit your ability to affect the company's day to day activities in any real way

Hmm. Like what sort of injunctions?

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012



Yeah. Pretty much anytime you hear about a strike, there is a strikefund you can donate too. I donated to the WV teacher's strike a year or so ago.

Next time you hear about a strike you support, try googling it. I guarantee you'll find a strikefund for the exact reasons you mentioned

e. unfortunately, don't expect too much. strikes are basically dead in the US. the WV teacher's strike I mentioned cost tens of thousands of dollars, and they got a 5% pay raise but not health insurance. we're at the point that only wildcat or general strikes are going to have much of an effect.

Famethrowa fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Dec 4, 2020

dirty shrimp money
Jan 8, 2001



Applewhite posted:

But with a gofundme thing acting as an ersatz strike fund, maybe it would buy them the breathing room they need to organize?

Seems like Amazon and the Pinkertons would just pressure GoFundMe to end the slush fund and likely seize the money for themselves

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

Famethrowa posted:

Yeah. Pretty much anytime you hear about a strike, there is a strikefund you can donate too. I donated to the WV teacher's strike a year or so ago.

Next time you hear about a strike you support, try googling it. I guarantee you'll find a strikefund for the exact reasons you mentioned

e. unfortunately, don't expect too much. strikes are basically dead in the US. the WV teacher's strike I mentioned cost tens of thousands of dollars, and they got a 5% pay raise but not health insurance. we're at the point that only wildcat or general strikes are going to have much of an effect.

I feel like a major Amazon workers' strike would be pretty effective because Amazon would lose like a billion dollars a day if their warehouses weren't running.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

dirty shrimp money posted:

Seems like Amazon and the Pinkertons would just pressure GoFundMe to end the slush fund and likely seize the money for themselves

Doesn't have to be a gofundme.

sweet thursday
Sep 16, 2012



The company will limit your legal right to picket, if your country/state even has that right to begin with. Say if you set up a line at a warehouse trying to limit a truck's access, for instance. The government will almost definitely be against you. The courts will probably grant whatever relief the company wants. The police will most definitely harass you and arrest you for any number of reasons, so you'll need money to fight that too. The media will be against you and help sway public opinion. Then there are the strike-breaking companies to fight against, which the employer will hire. There's no limit to what they will pull.

An organization will spend magnitudes more to break a strike than it would cost to give the workers what they're asking in the first place. It's an uphill climb in basically every aspect. That's why most of it comes down to how hard the workers themselves are willing to fight.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

sweet thursday posted:

The company will limit your legal right to picket, if your country/state even has that right to begin with. Say if you set up a line at a warehouse trying to limit a truck's access, for instance. The government will almost definitely be against you. The courts will probably grant whatever relief the company wants. The police will most definitely harass you and arrest you for any number of reasons, so you'll need money to fight that too. The media will be against you and help sway public opinion. Then there are the strike-breaking companies to fight against, which the employer will hire. There's no limit to what they will pull.

An organization will spend magnitudes more to break a strike than it would cost to give the workers what they're asking in the first place. It's an uphill climb in basically every aspect. That's why most of it comes down to how hard the workers themselves are willing to fight.

Do they have to picket? If they just stayed home and "put their hands in their pockets" as Bill Haywood might say, wouldn't they starve Amazon out?

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012



Applewhite posted:

I feel like a major Amazon workers' strike would be pretty effective because Amazon would lose like a billion dollars a day if their warehouses weren't running.

totally. the problem is, Amazon and Walmart (and Target etc) do an amazing job of inserting spies into breakrooms. most strike planners get fired before they hit critical mass.

for example:

A family member hosted an interfaith holiday party for their department at Walmart. Everyone brought their cultures holiday food, was wonderful. Come Monday, Walmart brass showed up to the store, and pulled everyone aside 1 by 1 to interrogate them about the party, trying to sniff out union activity. No one tried to have an out of work gathering again.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

Famethrowa posted:

totally. the problem is, Amazon and Walmart do an amazing job of inserting spies into breakrooms. most strike planners get fired before they hit critical mass.

for example:

A family member hosted an interfaith holiday party for their department at Walmart. Everyone brought their cultures holiday food, was wonderful. Come Monday, Walmart brass showed up to the store, and pulled everyone aside 1 by 1 to interrogate them about the party, trying to sniff out union activity. No one tried to have an out of work gathering again.

But we don't work in the Amazon breakroom

sweet thursday
Sep 16, 2012



Applewhite posted:

Do they have to picket? If they just stayed home and "put their hands in their pockets" as Bill Haywood might say, wouldn't they starve Amazon out?

Never underestimate how many scabs there are willing to step on the neck of somebody else to get a good paycheck. Strike-breaking organizations have a lot of resources for that and take care of the hiring for the employer. They will probably get a bonus for crossing the picket line while the workers are at home, whether it is at signing or a premium per hour.

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.

If you don't picket then you get replaced by scabs. The picket line is to keep the scabs away.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

sweet thursday posted:

Never underestimate how many scabs there are willing to step on the neck of somebody else to get a good paycheck. Strike-breaking organizations have a lot of resources for that and take care of the hiring for the employer. They will probably get a bonus for crossing the picket line while the workers are at home, whether it is at signing or a premium per hour.

That's why I was thinking the strike should happen around Christmas time. There's no way they could hire enough scabs to meet the demand in time.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

Speleothing posted:

If you don't picket then you get replaced by scabs. The picket line is to keep the scabs away.

Hmm....

Big Beef City
Aug 15, 2013




I work in the Amazon and an elf broke into my room and demanded that I jack him off, op.

sweet thursday
Sep 16, 2012



Applewhite posted:

That's why I was thinking the strike should happen around Christmas time. There's no way they could hire enough scabs to meet the demand in time.
Mine started around Christmas time.

Scabs have no families to worry about. They crawl out of the depths of Hades whenever called upon

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

Big Beef City posted:

I work in the Amazon and an elf broke into my room and demanded that I jack him off, op.

Sounds like you should go on strike.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

sweet thursday posted:

Mine started around Christmas time.

Scabs have no families to worry about. They crawl out of the depths of Hades whenever called upon

So there are obstacles. Let's make this year's goon project about taking down Amazon.

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012



Applewhite posted:

But we don't work in the Amazon breakroom

you've stumbled upon the job of an IWW labor organizer

they'll send consultants to workers who reach out to them, and will assist them with planning, funding, legal issues and opsec

https://iww.org/

sweet thursday
Sep 16, 2012



Applewhite posted:

So there are obstacles. Let's make this year's goon project about taking down Amazon.
It's definitely possible. The best case scenario is when you don't necessarily feel like you won, but you definitely know that the company didn't either. It feels really good and worth it when you resist.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

Famethrowa posted:

you've stumbled upon the job of an IWW labor organizer

they'll send consultants to workers who reach out to them, and will assist them with planning, funding, legal issues and opsec

https://iww.org/

I am joining this RIGHT NOW

bus hustler
Mar 14, 2019



sweet thursday posted:

I've been on the picket line for months and it cost me thousands of dollars. We didn't fold, but we had a strong union and a healthy strike fund to help keep our heads above water.

Money is only one aspect of it, though. You need strong solidarity and belief in what you're doing. Thabks I'll hang up and listen.


This is right, you cant just call for a strike or declare one, and we cant even get well meaning people to wear masks right. collective action like this is super loving hard and needs tons of support (both literal and like in terms of "popular support")

If you have never even tried to organize a single workplace there isn't really anything more "detached liberal" I can think of than calling for a strike from your computer chair. My wife organized her extremely left leaning masters degree having workplace and it took 2 years and management did not fight them for one minute.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

bus hustler posted:

This is right, you cant just call for a strike or declare one, and we cant even get well meaning people to wear masks right. collective action like this is super loving hard and needs tons of support (both literal and like in terms of "popular support")

If you have never even tried to organize a single workplace there isn't really anything more "detached liberal" I can think of than calling for a strike from your computer chair. My wife organized her extremely left leaning masters degree having workplace and it took 2 years and management did not fight them for one minute.

I plan to get out of my computer chair at some point.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

I'm corporate America's worst nightmare: an unemployed man with an axe to grind.

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

In the cheery brightness of the 41st millennium there is only CHRISTMAS SPIRIT!


Applewhite posted:

I plan to get out of my computer chair at some point.

Gotta pee sometime.

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

In the cheery brightness of the 41st millennium there is only CHRISTMAS SPIRIT!


Also to organize. But the pee thing too.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

Famethrowa posted:

you've stumbled upon the job of an IWW labor organizer

they'll send consultants to workers who reach out to them, and will assist them with planning, funding, legal issues and opsec

https://iww.org/

Just signed up and submitted my dues. I can already feel capitalism crumbling.

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012



Applewhite posted:

Just signed up and submitted my dues. I can already feel capitalism crumbling.

hey! thats amazing to hear man. they're a good org doing their best right now.

I don't qualify to be a wobblie because I'm manager scum for now, but looking forward to joining you on the other side one day.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

Famethrowa posted:

hey! thats amazing to hear man. they're a good org doing their best right now.

I don't qualify to be a wobblie because I'm manager scum for now, but looking forward to joining you on the other side one day.

I hope they take unemployed former Navy officers. Not sure whether an officer is "management." On the one hand I "managed" people but on the other I didn't sign anyone's paycheck and was about a hundred levels below anyone who did.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

Obviously enlisted would have been better but it's not like I'm STILL an officer.

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012



Applewhite posted:

I hope they take unemployed former Navy officers. Not sure whether an officer is "management." On the one hand I "managed" people but on the other I didn't sign anyone's paycheck and was about a hundred levels below anyone who did.

I don't think that counts. especially if you were NCO. thats more of a employee team lead position. I barely count, but I sign paychecks in the bosses name, and would probably be expected to report unionization talk (hahah hell no I wouldn't report it)

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS


Nap Ghost

Famethrowa posted:

I don't think that counts. especially if you were NCO. thats more of a employee team lead position. I barely count, but I sign paychecks in the bosses name, and would probably be expected to report unionization talk (hahah hell no I wouldn't report it)

Commissioned line officer :/

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Skypie
Sep 28, 2008


Hell, even being union may not necessarily help you strike. We have specific language in IBEW contracts about not causing work stoppages, and lots of big PLA projects make the contractors sign off saying their guys will not go on strike nor strike in sympathy with other trades

Lots of people won't cross picket lines regardless (I won't), but unions have been defanged over the last 30+ years, and it loving sucks.

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