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Which lifepath will you take?
NOMAD (I like freedom)
STREET KID (I like the city)
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v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


CaptainSarcastic posted:

Once your hack skills are high enough and you've got the right perks it's totally doable on a lot of missions to take out all opposition by hacking the cameras and dropping them with Short Circuit or the like.

I like the going loud Netrunner style in this video. You get so OP you can roleplay Gandalf the White in the year 2077 of the Fourth Age of Middle Earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVegaiE6FZQ#t=21s

E: Watching that again, it's really cool how reinforcements are called in, drive up, etc.

I started as a Netrunner/Stealth/Cool and enjoyed it all the way up until around level 15 or so by when it was too easy to face roll most enemies. Switched to a non-deck Kerenzikov build around then which became pretty OP in itself but needed active, um, participation in combat. The above encounter with the Level Scaling mod active was one of the tougher ones for that OP character. The ease with which the netrunner build melts everything is just crazy - most of those attacks do %-based damage so it wouldn't really matter if the enemies were scaled up. Or so I remember, may be wrong there.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Sep 12, 2021

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FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



v1ld posted:

E: Watching that again, it's really cool how reinforcements are called in, drive up, etc.
Cool, but totally scripted.

That video looks like most of my combat phases lol

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


FilthyImp posted:

Cool, but totally scripted.

Yeah, true.

Playing FNV again after years and I'd forgotten just how much ~*emergent*~ behavior those games have. Or even the level of NPC AI and interaction in decades old games that are simply not in CP 2077 at all.

E: Not knocking CP here - I didn't expect any of that after how TW3 played, nor did I miss it. They are going after a different experience from the Beth games.

8one6
May 20, 2012

When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!



Post poste posted:

It's still really nice that I can play this game without ever being forced to drink or smoke when I'm in control of V.
I didn't know it bothered me until I realized I was the world's least fun cyber assassin.

The best interaction with Jonny is how much of a pissbaby he is because the V I'm playing doesn't smoke.

Post poste
Mar 29, 2010


8one6 posted:

The best interaction with Jonny is how much of a pissbaby he is because the V I'm playing doesn't smoke.

He whines like a pissy baby because he's too sober and can actually think. What a chud.

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.

Taco Defender

CaptainSarcastic posted:

The lack of any lethal vs. nonlethal approach bothered me. And it wouldn't be possible to finish all the quests nonlethal because the game forces you to kill the target to complete the quest sometimes.

Lethal and nonlethal is a failed game system. You can see exactly how they were trying to copy the witcher 3 sliver and steel swords ,but failed like everything else.

The worst part regardless of what weapon type you use, the bad guys have the same fall on the ground and slightly move animation. At most you get a email on your phone saying "Good job choome you didn't use lethal weapons on that mission thanks V".

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



Post poste posted:

He whines like a pissy baby because he's too sober and can actually think. What a chud.
Holy poo poo, my playthrough had Johnny be a halfway decent choom and legit sorry for his actions and it's entirely because he was in extended rehab thanks to V not really drinking or smoking to excess Holy lol

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.

Taco Defender

This youtube clip shows how minor lethal and nonlethal is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CymqHdNYkg#t=1686s

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

I wonder if it'd be possible to mod it so knocked out enemies wake back up after a while and raise the alarm

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Tenzarin posted:

Lethal and nonlethal is a failed game system. You can see exactly how they were trying to copy the witcher 3 sliver and steel swords ,but failed like everything else.

The worst part regardless of what weapon type you use, the bad guys have the same fall on the ground and slightly move animation. At most you get a email on your phone saying "Good job choome you didn't use lethal weapons on that mission thanks V".

The number of ways in which you can magically transform anything you do into "non-lethal" makes it a non-system, basically.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


i remember when i first realized all the people whose brains i fried where technically just knocked out

8one6
May 20, 2012

When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!



My cyber-modded .50 cal sniper rifle fires boxing gloves and happy thoughts.

Also if Regina reminds me one more time about not killing cyberpsychos I'm going to personally start a cyberpyscho grave yard out in the badlands.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



Rinkles posted:

i remember when i first realized all the people whose brains i fried where technically just knocked out

In fairness, video game logic w/r/t head trauma and permanent brain damage is pretty silly even before you insert exploding diodes directly into the cranium

Sachant
Apr 27, 2011



v1ld posted:

The number of ways in which you can magically transform anything you do into "non-lethal" makes it a non-system, basically.

I'm okay with this. Dishonored has the problem of all the lethal stuff being fun and puzzle-y to use and there being almost no nonlethal options besides "sneak up behind the guy and choke him out" x100. In Cyberpunk I like that I can do something the game does fairly well and fun (shoot the bad guys) without being tsk-tsk'ed by the game for playing it the fun way. Also, Cyberpunk does a good job of establishing that nearly all of the enemies you fight are genuinely terrible people that aren't just doing it to pay the bills and feed their family like a Dishonored town guard.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN



Sachant posted:

I'm okay with this. Dishonored has the problem of all the lethal stuff being fun and puzzle-y to use and there being almost no nonlethal options besides "sneak up behind the guy and choke him out" x100. In Cyberpunk I like that I can do something the game does fairly well and fun (shoot the bad guys) without being tsk-tsk'ed by the game for playing it the fun way. Also, Cyberpunk does a good job of establishing that nearly all of the enemies you fight are genuinely terrible people that aren't just doing it to pay the bills and feed their family like a Dishonored town guard.

Dishonored has sleep darts and electro mines that are non-lethal, and if anything are more effective than the lethal options. I found it much more of a chore to do a lethal run in those games than to do a non-lethal.

Farm Frenzy
Jan 3, 2007



imo its cool that enemies sometimes dont die when you shoot them so u get to dramatically walk up and execute them

Relin
Oct 6, 2002

You have been a most worthy adversary, but in every game, there are winners and there are losers. And as you know, in this game, losers get robotizicized!

this cyberpsycho discount doc quest has been bugged for 9 months. it was the last one i did too

Tiny Chalupa
Feb 14, 2012


I'm playing the game again, just got to level like....4. Trying a largely melee bashing people bases build by I also REALLY like the hacking aspect so not sure if I'll stick with this guy long term or not.
Last time I aged was around release and I still have not had any bugs at all which is nice. Just got caught up with life

I am amused that the sledge hammer I around with it says it counts as non lethal damage. I'm pretty sure a 2 handed overhead swing to head is killing someone..

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 2 hours!


Non lethal is always a joke in games, I donít think any have ever done that realistically.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Props to Alpha Protocol for keeping track of your non-lethal takedowns with a stat labeled "hospital bills"

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

Colonel, there's no exposed breasts in these dark souls

hobbesmaster posted:

Non lethal is always a joke in games, I donít think any have ever done that realistically.

There is nothing realistic about chaining perfectly executed sleeper holds as you deploy instant ZzzZz crazy knockout gas and sleep darts and shove everyoneís bodies in lockers, dumpsters and air vents. Thatís just not how anyone anywhere in the world operates.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN



Bust Rodd posted:

There is nothing realistic about chaining perfectly executed sleeper holds as you deploy instant ZzzZz crazy knockout gas and sleep darts and shove everyoneís bodies in lockers, dumpsters and air vents. Thatís just not how anyone anywhere in the world operates.

You obviously didn't go to my high school.

Splorange
Feb 23, 2011



In another game you could implement a melee combat system where if you overpower a single opponent, you'd hogtie them with zip ties or something... I mean it would be loud and all but..

I'm horribly out of the loop, but tangentially speaking, has any game implemented non lethal / arrests since uuhh, SWAT 4 ? Like it seems to me that if you aren't putting people to sleep you are warcriming people into permanent submission.

dogstile
May 1, 2012

fucking clocks
how do they work?


2house2fly posted:

Props to Alpha Protocol for keeping track of your non-lethal takedowns with a stat labeled "hospital bills"

Every time i hear about this game i find out something new i missed even though i completed it like 5 times.

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.


hobbesmaster posted:

Non lethal is always a joke in games, I donít think any have ever done that realistically.

SWAT 4 has various less-than-lethal/non-lethal real-world guns, it's kindof fun if dated.

Wikipedia Blurb posted:

The practice of only using lethal force when necessary is always highlighted in the game. Operators are supposed to abide by the Rules of Engagement while carrying out operations. As SWAT is a life-saving organization, reckless use of lethal force would not be appropriate. For example, Operators cannot fire lethal rounds at a fleeing suspect, as he/she does not pose an immediate threat to anyone in the nearby vicinity. Doing so will result in a penalty for unauthorized use of force.

Hence, the score that is given to Lead Operators after every operation is based on the RoE. The score will factor in the number of suspects successfully arrested, the number of evidence secured and the injuries Operators sustain while in the operation. Penalties such as the unauthorized use of force, the unauthorized use of deadly force, the incapacitation of a hostage, and the injuring of a fellow officer are also awarded.

A wide array of weapons are available for selection during the pre-mission briefing, ranging from lethal weapons such as the M4A1 Colt Carbine, to less-lethal weapons like the Less-Lethal Shotgun, and the Pepper-Ball Gun. Operators can also wear varying levels of armor and headgear during operations, such as Kevlar vests and gas masks. Other equipment such as the Optiwand and door wedges are also available for use. Each Operator is fitted with a helmet camera, which can be used to issue commands from.

The pre-mission briefing, which the Lead Operator will have access to before every mission, consists of a summary of the operation, the 911 call made by civilians inside the compromised building (if available), selection of weapons and intelligence about the suspects, civilians, a map of the building and a timeline of events. Players can choose from two entry points in most operations.

As all aggressors are innocent until proven guilty, hostiles are referred to as "suspects", in SWAT 4. Regardless, all non-incapacitated personnel (including "civilians") are to be treated with caution and must be restrained. Suspects range from being poorly-organized, ill-equipped and nonresistant to arrest, to well-organized, well-equipped and being resistant to arrest as the game progresses. New equipment is available to use after every successful mission. Operators will listen for your commands before acting. For example, a suspect may have surrendered, but Operators will only take these suspects into custody only after the command to restrain them is given. However, Operators will also act on their own accord. For example, Operators may fire on uncooperative suspects in self-defense, without being commanded to.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



I wish someone made a spiritual successor to SWAT 4. It was so good.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky, And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by

Jack Trades posted:

I wish someone made a spiritual successor to SWAT 4. It was so good.

I feel like SWAT 4 and the old Rainbox Six games sit in this gap in the market sit in this gap in the market that Hitman used to sit in, and like Hitman they're waiting for someone to come along and update the formula and be successful by virtue of being the only game in town.

Zeta Acosta
Dec 16, 2019

#essereFerrari


Jack Trades posted:

I wish someone made a spiritual successor to alpha protocol. It was so good.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010




Wouldn't mind that either.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."




Unfortunately the 12 people who can remember Alpha Protocol are getting older by the day. Soon there will be no stories left to tell.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



Even a remaster with some gameplay updates and a lot of bug fixing would go a long way to save Alpha Protocol.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


exquisite tea posted:

Unfortunately the 12 people who can remember Alpha Protocol are getting older by the day. Soon there will be no stories left to tell.

This is lovely and worth what is an empty post.

I could never really get into it, get stuck by Act 2 or location 2 or whatever it is because of the gameplay. A remaster with better game play would at least double the 12 people to 24.

itry
Aug 23, 2019






Jack Trades posted:

Even a remaster with some gameplay updates and a lot of bug fixing would go a long way to save Alpha Protocol.

Alas, SEGA doesn't seem to give a poo poo about AP.

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.

Taco Defender

hobbesmaster posted:

Non lethal is always a joke in games, I donít think any have ever done that realistically.

I'll fight you over metal gear sold 2, 3, and 4. Cleared all those games with zero kills. Snake is a legend.

Bronze Fonz
Feb 14, 2019






https://twitter.com/Polygon/status/1437774556400431109

Patch notes:

https://www.cyberpunk.net/en/news/39334/patch-1-31

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

hobbesmaster posted:

Non lethal is always a joke in games, I donít think any have ever done that realistically.

...Has anyone ever done realistic lethal, either? Can't you kill essentially any shooter game enemy by shooting them in the toe enough times?

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 2 hours!


Muscle Tracer posted:

...Has anyone ever done realistic lethal, either? Can't you kill essentially any shooter game enemy by shooting them in the toe enough times?

I mean, you'll die eventually without medical attention, only say Arma, DayZ, PUBG and Tarkov are concerned with stuff like bleeding out, gangrene and so forth. Even still, games don't show people dying in agony over a long time because that'd be kind of depressing.

Blue Raider
Sep 2, 2006





Muscle Tracer posted:

...Has anyone ever done realistic lethal, either? Can't you kill essentially any shooter game enemy by shooting them in the toe enough times?

Tarkov? Maybe?

Soldier of Fortune bypassed the issue by having the limbs pop off, but I don't think that counts.

hobbesmaster posted:

Even still, games don't show people dying in agony over a long time because that'd be kind of depressing.

Also boring.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Bleeding as a separate damage type from direct hit damage that needs to be handled can be good if done well. STALKER did that ages ago and having to find cover to apply a bandage was a simple yet effective difficulty mechanic depending on the mod using it.

The AMK mod added hit reactions on the player if the damage in a single hit exceeded some % of your total HP and that attempt to even things between you and the enemy made the game too deadly unless you were really good at cover and line of attack and all that real military stuff.

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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 2 hours!


I was going to say that that kind of thing doesn't really work for a game like this (ie Deus Ex, alpha protocol, uhhhh... prey? idk) but it would be very true to the TTRPG. That game is loving brutal and you'll need a couple days to heal after any fight.

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