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Which lifepath will you take?
NOMAD (I like freedom)
STREET KID (I like the city)
CORPO (I like money)
I don't like labels
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Mendrian
Jan 6, 2013



I feel like the only purpose or design goal behind the current police star system, if it could even be said to have one, is to prevent you going full scorched earth on a crowded street and seeing no consequences. They managed to follow the chain of logic like this:

We want our game to be feel full of people so we'll have lots of crowds.

We don't want to make npcs immortal or disable players from using weapons when they want to in the open world.

It is therefore possible for players to hurt npcs, accidentally or otherwise.

It would feel immersion breaking and cruel if bad behavior had no consequence.

...and you arrive at a wanted system.

Deducting automatic fines or just arbitrarily giving a game over after too much violence would arguably achieve a similar goal.

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aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009

kiss kiss



Pillbug

A kinda dynamic system would do a lot for immersion. Like crimes are weighted depending on how posh the area is and how good the camera coverage is in the spot, the idea is that the police is stretched out so if you just kill some gang members and hobos they won't care, which lets the player do his thing. As you rack up infamy eventually passing police cruisers nail you with the facial recognition and the cops jump out radioing for backup, if you don't break contact with the first responders they send in helicopters etc. If you stay in camera view for too long and they really want you they send someone, so if you do crimes you gotta have a plan prepared to lose them somehow - hacking etc. Worst case you have to pay a fixer a hefty bribe to have a cop downgrade your wanted status in the database. Some more infamy and they send out increasingly badass bounty hunters. And if you just go on a rampage in broad daylight the entire police converges on you.

joylessdivision
Jun 15, 2013




Mendrian posted:

I feel like the only purpose or design goal behind the current police star system, if it could even be said to have one, is to prevent you going full scorched earth on a crowded street and seeing no consequences. They managed to follow the chain of logic like this:

We want our game to be feel full of people so we'll have lots of crowds.

We don't want to make npcs immortal or disable players from using weapons when they want to in the open world.

It is therefore possible for players to hurt npcs, accidentally or otherwise.

It would feel immersion breaking and cruel if bad behavior had no consequence.

...and you arrive at a wanted system.

Deducting automatic fines or just arbitrarily giving a game over after too much violence would arguably achieve a similar goal.

Maybe non combat NPCs should learn to not run into gunfire. I can't remember how many times I've popped the "You did something illegal" warning because some drat NPC decided the best solution to their issue would be to run directly into the gun fight between the multiple gangers with guns vs the one person shooting back.

I mean I get Night City is a poo poo show of misery but drat.

E: unrelated but man do I enjoy hacking fools apart with the katana. I main the Lizzie pistol, a double barrel shotgun and the katana for when I'm dealing with a couple of dudes or I'm finishing off the last of a group.

Farm Frenzy
Jan 3, 2007



the purpose/design goal of the current police system is 'oh god we have to ship the game just loving make them spawn near you so it slightly resembles what you'd expect in an open world game'

Mendrian
Jan 6, 2013



Farm Frenzy posted:

the purpose/design goal of the current police system is 'oh god we have to ship the game just loving make them spawn near you so it slightly resembles what you'd expect in an open world game'

I... don't know.

I play a lot of games and I don't "expect" a police system because it's open world?

Like you can argue its very derivative of GTA but that's not the design goal.

Sedisp
Jun 20, 2012




Mendrian posted:

I... don't know.

I play a lot of games and I don't "expect" a police system because it's open world?


I feel like there's more examples of open world games with police systems than without

Kokoro Wish
Jul 23, 2007

Post? What post? Oh wow.
I had nothing to do with THAT.

Also wasn't it in that Jason Shreier article that, yes that's kind of why the police system as is exists?

A last minute addition that baffled the RPG oriented development staff because someone (correctly, as it turns out just by reading comments), said "This is what people expect".

ughhhh
Oct 17, 2012



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhqtoQ4E-dA

I still can't understand how this ended up happening. All the rain and puddles, the sea, the river all of it lifeless.

Dorkopotamis
Dec 1, 2005


Can someone confirm/deny whether or not the poison skills from the stealth line effect the contagion ability?

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.

Taco Defender

Dorkopotamis posted:

Can someone confirm/deny whether or not the poison skills from the stealth line effect the contagion ability?

I can't remember if I tried this or not.

I want to say I tried it and it did nothing and I reloaded my save and picked something else. I might have posted about it in the thread or you can try putting the point in an comparing. It's not like contagion needs to do double dmg anyway.

Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Apr 7, 2021

Splorange
Feb 23, 2011



Dorkopotamis posted:

Can someone confirm/deny whether or not the poison skills from the stealth line effect the contagion ability?

I went for this synergy and I'm fairly sure my damage numbers went up with contagion, but I'm an idiot and it might have correlated with something else. This was pre 1.2 mind you.

Dorkopotamis
Dec 1, 2005


This game is horribly obtuse and I'm the first person who has identified it. Look, everyone loves this game and I do too, but all the systems are so drat hosed, huh?

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.

Taco Defender

Dorkopotamis posted:

This game is horribly obtuse and I'm the first person who has identified it. Look, everyone loves this game and I do too, but all the systems are so drat hosed, huh?

Are you trying to cyberpunk us?

Splorange
Feb 23, 2011



Dorkopotamis posted:

This game is horribly obtuse and I'm the first person who has identified it. Look, everyone loves this game and I do too, but all the systems are so drat hosed, huh?

We are all geniuses in this thread.

I'm sure I'll cave and mod the poo poo out of this once I decide to replay it. It's just, I feel icky having to wade through all that horny/weird fixation bullshit to get to the good stuff... gently caress, I'm sorry, I meant to say: it is great to see all that creativity flourish and I still want the gigantic lethal penis mod.

itry
Aug 23, 2019






I think some (a lot of) people were asking for this:

Better Vehicle First Person posted:

Improved vehicle first person camera. Customizable.

forest spirit
Apr 6, 2009



Dorkopotamis posted:

This game is horribly obtuse and I'm the first person who has identified it. Look, everyone loves this game and I do too, but all the systems are so drat hosed, huh?

Cyberfucked, by those corpos at Arasaka

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009



Sedisp posted:

I feel like there's more examples of open world games with police systems than without

Really? Besides gta, what other open world games have police that spawn in when you do something bad? A far more common approach is to have guards at specific locations or patrols that will attack you in you do something in their cone of vision.

itry
Aug 23, 2019






Mafia 3? (I didn't play Mafia 3)

UnknownMercenary
Oct 31, 2011

I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD



Yeah all the Mafia games have police systems.

Sedisp
Jun 20, 2012




Chalks posted:

Really? Besides gta, what other open world games have police that spawn in when you do something bad? A far more common approach is to have guards at specific locations or patrols that will attack you in you do something in their cone of vision.

All the watchdogs, all the assassin's creeds, all the mafias pretty sure at least some of the farcry games, both red dead redemptions all the saints rows, the elder scrolls games to some extent the 3D fallouts, ghost recon wildlands and breakpoint sleepy dogs, no mans sky, all the just causes, all the fables and thats all I can pull off the top of my head

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

In Rodd we Bust





Cyberpunk also really tried to impress upon you that organizations like MAXTAC and TRAUMA TEAM would somehow factor into the gameplay in some materials and neither of them are really in the game after the one mission in Act 1.

Strategic Tea
Sep 1, 2012

It's not the red form anymore.
Incidental bones can file under the greens.


I thought the setting made a lot more sense without a police response? Isn't the point that crime is rampant, life is cheap and the police don't care (unless they are a gruff trenchcoaty noircop)

Trauma and maxtac just jet in like avenging angels to bail out their exclusive clients / stomp on threats to the status quo?

Strategic Tea fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Apr 7, 2021

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009



Sedisp posted:

All the watchdogs, all the assassin's creeds, all the mafias pretty sure at least some of the farcry games, both red dead redemptions all the saints rows, the elder scrolls games to some extent the 3D fallouts, ghost recon wildlands and breakpoint sleepy dogs, no mans sky, all the just causes, all the fables and thats all I can pull off the top of my head

To be clear, I mean a game that spawns infinite waves of police/guards at you based on some sort of wanted level. Things like the elder scrolls games where you can put a bucket on the head of a guard and do what ever you want is a different system where there are specific guards for you to avoid. You go to a random village and kill everyone, there won't be hoards of guards infinitely spawning at your location. Same with farcry, tw3, fallout etc.

Guards aren't a problem when they're designed to be avoided. Something to enhance stealth and RP gameplay by giving a penalty for being caught.

The reason GTA and GTA-style games like saint's row (and to an extent RDR) have a multi-tier wanted system is because getting caught and getting into police chases isn't a deterrent, it's an intended part of the game. Whole systems are built around helping you escape from the police and missions will unavoidably get you into chases so that the player can enjoy the experience.

CDPR sits on the extremely uncomfortable fence between both systems. The police are a deterrent and not something the player is encouraged to interact with, but instead of a bunch of gameplay mechanics that let you avoid being spotted like keeping an eye on patrol routes and staying out of their vision you get infinitely spawning psychic motherfuckers who know exactly where you are and will never ever leave you alone.

This isn't a design you come to by looking at how other sandboxes do guards and crime deterrents. It's a design you come to by looking at GTA and saying "do it like that". It's unclear as to whether the system is half implemented because they didn't have time to do it properly or if it's the result of a surface level interpretation of how GTA works.

And yeah, I'll grant you, NMS had the exact same lovely guard/wanted level system when it first game out and it was absolutely terrible in that game too.

Chalks fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Apr 7, 2021

alex314
Nov 22, 2007


Present system is dumb for reasons you've mentioned. For most of the time cops should just be another gang, with maybe some individuals trying to do their best.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

In Rodd we Bust





Also, i don't think it makes sense for cops to just be cops here. How does one police a population of augmented superhuman killing machines? Cops would need to be more than what we see in game because they literally call it out themselves in game "Oh that's V? Were doomed!"

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

It’s also jarring to have NCPD go after you because the way things written out you’d think that NCPD response time is low and minimum effort. While cops are corrupt paying a fine for killing a bystander does seem like peak American justice system although V doesn’t get Max Tac targeted for smoking a joint.

Also, in a weird way I was expecting some civilians to be strapped and to gun me down on occasion if I was doing something bad and true to debunking the “good guy with a gun” myth police would shoot him as well as me.

forest spirit
Apr 6, 2009



I just want to be chased by someone on my dollar store Akira bike, I can debate myself into whether or not it's lore friendly after I had fun

Pattonesque
Jul 14, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

Bust Rodd posted:

Also, i don't think it makes sense for cops to just be cops here. How does one police a population of augmented superhuman killing machines? Cops would need to be more than what we see in game because they literally call it out themselves in game "Oh that's V? Were doomed!"

this would require some kind of "street credibility" system

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009

kiss kiss



Pillbug

There can't be all that many cybered up supermercs outside the corps etc.

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.


Pffft, with the ability to turn burritos into sniper rifles you'd think every citizen in Night City would have access to as many cybernetics as they could want.

dragonshardz
May 2, 2017




Strategic Tea posted:

I thought the setting made a lot more sense without a police response? Isn't the point that crime is rampant, life is cheap and the police don't care (unless they are a gruff trenchcoaty noircop)

Trauma and maxtac just jet in like avenging angels to bail out their exclusive clients / stomp on threats to the status quo?

That's what would be expected from the setting, yeah. You'd get an increasing bounty on your head and maybe, eventually, have to fight off - or pay off - another merc coming after you for the sweet sweet NCPD contractor money.

ephex
Nov 4, 2007






PHWOAR CRIMINAL


The single most annoying thing in this game is when I want to fast travel and click somewhere to drag the map with the mouse and accidently hit another fast travel spot it brings me there

Palpek
Dec 27, 2008


Do you feel it, Zach?
My coffee warned me about it.




If at release there were no bounty stars and they turned the cops off completely for killing anybody except for corpos and other cops (in which case you'd get the equivalent of a 4 star bounty immediately for the smallest crime), the game would be better when it comes to gameplay, lore and would probably be praised by critics for its relevant meta-commentary.

Mesadoram
Nov 4, 2009

Serious Business


itry posted:

I think some (a lot of) people were asking for this:

Better Vehicle First Person posted: posted:


Improved vehicle first person camera. Customizable.

So does this mean my V can sit on some Yellow Pages™ and see over the steering wheel?

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

In Rodd we Bust





The first person vehicle camera in this game to me, a person who drives a car for about 5 hours a day, makes absolutely no sense

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

Bust Rodd posted:

Cyberpunk also really tried to impress upon you that organizations like MAXTAC and TRAUMA TEAM would somehow factor into the gameplay in some materials and neither of them are really in the game after the one mission in Act 1.

The MAXTAC duo from the original teaser trailer got relegated to a cyberpsychosis mission as side content. At least they were there, I guess...

It might have been fun if ~wanted stars~ filled up much, much more slowly, but were persistent. Eventually, cause too much mayhem, and you get labeled a cyberpsycho and have to deal with MAXTAC or get your name cleared, or something.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Splorange posted:

Wasn't that patented/copyrighted by Warner Brothers? Am I misremembering?

didn't stop ubisoft from using bits of it in the last couple AC games

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009

kiss kiss



Pillbug

Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

The MAXTAC duo from the original teaser trailer got relegated to a cyberpsychosis mission as side content. At least they were there, I guess...

It might have been fun if ~wanted stars~ filled up much, much more slowly, but were persistent. Eventually, cause too much mayhem, and you get labeled a cyberpsycho and have to deal with MAXTAC or get your name cleared, or something.


Go to a fixer and he hooks you up with a crooked popo bureaucrat who will fudge your wanted status for a fistful of eddies. If your criming is literally fuckin Hitler level it's gonna cost an order of magnitude more. Boom, done.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

If you don't have money and wind up with a bunch of stars your game is not possible to advance because you'll keep getting in a flatline loop. Breaking out of that loop itself could be a small game of sorts but I don't see how money should be what solves everything.

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Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



necrobobsledder posted:

If you don't have money and wind up with a bunch of stars your game is not possible to advance because you'll keep getting in a flatline loop. Breaking out of that loop itself could be a small game of sorts but I don't see how money should be what solves everything.

yea would be better if you had a choice to pay it off or do a mission that involves breaking into a cop station and hacking some poo poo to remove your stars

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