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ymgve posted:It's not just performance, seems like a lot of the bitching is about the game not being this "life simulator" or whatever people dreamed up this game would be like. I don't even get it - what part of the marketing materials made people think this was anything but a standard open world game? But I'm confused because compared to all the stuff that reviewers have been talking about for a long time, nobody really compared Cyberpunk to either of those titles. Those of us expecting more Witcher 3+ with cybernetics and roach as your car were going to be happy.
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Dec 12, 2020 15:56
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From a QoL perspective it seems like there are two distinct perks to grab: double jump and disassembling junk items automaticallyCYBEReris posted:it's pretty depressing that those settings are more optimistic about cops than what's happening in real life, where police are massively overfunded to be corporations' security for free
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Dec 14, 2020 18:02
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The puzzling thing about the NPC AI to me is that way back in 2006 the AI for F.E.A.R. turned out to be quite simple to program, so for a company in 2018 to have problems making NPCs that look somewhat alive on a loop seems like something desperately wrong happened there that resulting in needing to pull the plug, not that they didn't care to try. Essentially, what we see as quite complicated behaviors can happen as an emergent behavior from very simple heuristics and path planning with some simple cost functions. Perhaps it doesn't work well for anything other than combat, but the principles are clear and the planning behavior seems quite fast to do and could easily scale for even last-gen consoles https://alumni.media.mit.edu/~jorkin/gdc2006_orkin_jeff_fear.pdf afflictionwisp posted:They dumbed a bunch of money back into the business, had the game pulled from shelves, and did a poo poo-ton of work on bug fixes, redesigning the UI, and rerecording a lot of voice work, if my memory's accurate. They have a track record of quality post launch support. I'm not gonna defend CP2077's issues, but CDPR have earned a bit of faith from me that they can correct course.
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Dec 14, 2020 18:24
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ymgve posted:Note that FEAR was at heart a corridor shooter, so every encounter had a lot less parameters that could vary than an open world game with multiple routes. I don't remember, did enemies in DXHR have AI on that level?
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Dec 14, 2020 20:06
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CDPR could have employed some of the techniques in this GDC talk to help balance the economy better to avoid behaviors like buying a bunch of soda and turning them into sniper rifles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX8f1lE09uY But I know they've talked in the past about how it's fine to become overpowered toward the end of a single player game as a sort of victory lap similar to what happens in X-COM. Starks posted:I'm gonna say what everyone else is afraid to: the game should've had an early access period The classical approach for games with a tight loop and a mostly unidirectional single player type experience is a mix of QA testers and focus group players under NDA. The WoW / Blizzard model of a test environment open to the public makes sense mostly at scale for super hardcore consumers with massive engagement, comparatively, but Cyberpunk had that a while ago and may have benefited just for knocking out the open world aspects while buying the dev team some time to optimize for consoles better or distract from some bigger problems. The problem with this approach is that it takes a long time to get anything interesting out the door, hype is muted ultimately compared to a one-shot big party, and it's super high risk because by the time anything is in QA hands a vision has been set and it may not be compelling, lack some really "cool" factor, etc. But this can be mitigated by having people play early prototypes of games for core gameplay loops and mechanics and use them as decision makers so nothing is really spoiled to the public and steady, solid progress is ensured mostly.
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Dec 18, 2020 23:34
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ughhhh posted:Anyone find signs with languages other than English or Japanese? The game already has Russian and Korean text that gets automatically translated and announcements in Japense, Korean and Chinese, but all the signs are either in English or Japanese. Even in China town!
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Dec 21, 2020 00:36
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Mr E posted:I found a cat underwater grooming itself once so maybe all the cats in the game are cyberpets that have powers beyond our understanding.
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Dec 23, 2020 21:51
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Hot take: we need more diversity in mainstream RPGs and anything not like GTA, Fallout, and the usual D&D fantasy archetype worship is worth exploring conceptually and promoting even if it’s Not a Great Game in order to inspire future developers and publishers to try something new even if it may not be the best idea on a purely financial basis.
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Dec 25, 2020 15:57
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They should have released a different life path as a DLC once they realized how hard it was to do a single one. That would give people a reason to start the story over and get different endings and paths to them. Also even add different gangs with each DLC, too. All of these approaches could have saved a ton of time, kept focus upon core mechanics / engine alongside writing, and helped manage the hype sufficiently with some content players could look forward to even if it takes another couple years. For example, base game could have had Street Kid, Valentinos + Tyger Claws + Mox, Arasaka + Militech. First DLC adds Corpo, Voodoo Boys + Animals, Netwatch + Kang Tao. Last one adds the rest and there’s many quest lines and rivalries better fleshed out. Perhaps this was voted down somewhere but I’d be curious to see what the downside of this approach would be as players and for marketing.
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Dec 29, 2020 06:48
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It is with great sadness that I have to declare 2020 the year that black metal became mainstream because of Cyberpunk 2077. RIP Christraping black metal, hail FPSraping black metal I guess?
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Dec 30, 2020 17:06
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The real humanity meter should be based upon how gruesome and slow of a death you inflict upon victims. But at the same time it seems better they didn’t include such a system either. Perhaps it’s better for a more transhumanism rather than cyberpunk setting.
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Jan 2, 2021 17:21
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, opening it doesn't trigger that mission something else does. It'll trigger later.
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Jan 2, 2021 20:01
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If there's two people that might be able to pull together the crew from Dredd to help out on Cyberpunk, that'd be Adi Shankar (producer) and Paul Leonard-Morgan (OST composer that worked on both Cyberpunk and Dredd). The whole game has a Dredd + Blade Runner vibe and dystopia to it and it's enough for me to overlook some of the jank I'm seeing here and there because it was clearly done with a lot of love and dedication. Honestly, if you go through the game pretty quickly in motion you won't notice most of the issues people tend to complain about like NPC AI and vehicles. And vehicles are at least fixable with some ini tweaks. Also, any developer wanting to give estimates is probably off by a factor of pi without having sufficient visibility into project management minutiae. Mythical Man-Month seems lost on everyone but the most senior of devs. Hell, I read it at 18 and it's served me quite well throughout my career in software.
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Jan 3, 2021 20:17
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Make the tech tree take on some of the hacking abilities under Intelligence now and give crafting options for everyone or at least at a special vendor requiring more cash if missing materials similar to a Ripperdoc. This solves several balance problems - hacking is insanely overpowered but nerfing weapons would be pretty bad too, tech is an underpowered filler for everyone else just to get some bigger numbers with more colorful loot icons, and crafting is not a fun experience and likely won’t be fixed easily with patches given itemization is pretty baked in. And if players want to do crafting they still can get benefits. The crafting vendor could even be like Victor and give some free item crafts for players, too. I don’t get why we should be trying to turn a single player game into a drat MMO
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Jan 5, 2021 15:33
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I've had my copy basically running idle since maybe a week after release and I still don't have 300 hours in it by that metric. That's a lot of jank you're enjoying, clearly
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Jan 6, 2021 15:16
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I genuinely would like to see CDPR take the step to have a ton of dirty laundry aired at GDC coming up to explain themselves better and to give players an idea of just how much complexity goes into making the game. It would make some wishful speculation drop hopefully in the process but perhaps that's my own wishful thinking that if developers and studios were actually transparent that gamers wouldn't be the drooling entitled nerdy army of trolls they are collectively.
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Jan 6, 2021 18:48
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Section Z posted:While I'm sure there is some classic "cool>technical logic" going on. Folding Yardstick logic is probably deeply involved. The blade is suppose to be the sides of your forearm, on a fold out strut the size of your forearm. So the liberties involved are probably 25% bullshit instead of 75% bullshit. Orange Crush Rush posted:Yeah it's really noticeable against Oda, bullets just seem to circle around him endlessly
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Jan 8, 2021 04:42
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I hosed myself over for the secret ending being a habitual quick saver rather than doing manual saves and am going to have to backtrack over 60 hours of play through which is closer to starting over completely for me. Save regularly and manually, folks. At this rate I’m going to finish the game when I get a 3080 Ti and 5900X late this year
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Jan 9, 2021 20:51
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I’d be dying laughing if someone died and left a brain dance of what happened to some horrible monster and we find out the guy just died on the toilet - nothing malicious, nothing insidious. The subject matter is quite serious but besides Skippy, Ozob, and the whole ordeal with the cyberdick dude there’s just not a lot of humor.
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Jan 10, 2021 00:05
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Part of the loss of connection to me is squarely because our gigs come from folks over a Zoom call. Furthermore, there’s a UX difference between clicking on someone and watching them go through dialogue and being in full control of your character watching other crap going on like a car accident that happened right behind them. We’re in control of the scene and can look away when Jali tech would have given some more gravity to a voice actor’s lines. Maybe this lack of connection and annoyance with all these notifications is intentional in vision.hobbesmaster posted:Having played a lot of hacking, one possible balance change for that play style would be to require you to “break into” the subnet for the enemies first with a hardline. So you’d need to open with a stealth take down to use your toys. Then make hacking only be crazy good against unaware targets. That would mean turning off the alarm and using memory wipe be something. necrobobsledder fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jan 10, 2021 |
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Jan 10, 2021 01:53
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Rinkles posted:Not sure if you were referring to this, but something like that used to be a monowire feature
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Jan 10, 2021 04:35
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The car ads all over your map and quest trackers is how CDPR shows the meta-commentary of how advertising is pervasive, disruptive, and everyone has to become a salesman to survive. Only defense I have. Still not sure why there’s no easy way to turn on and off different layers on the map. There’s clearly a way to select for certain items because the fast travel kiosks filter out everything minus the waypoints and actively tracked points. Another thing that makes me speculate about why crafting can’t be batched seems vaguely related to the way our entire character needs to be redrawn layer by layer upon equipping clothes in the character view. But really when crafting in a batch you only need to check a few things: resources to consume (calculated easily), space occupied in the save state (pre-allocating it if necessary in memory), and weight of items. I’m trying to remember crafting mechanics from Witcher 3 and I can’t remember being this frustrated with crafting a stack of bombs. There’s gotta be a really non-obvious reason for this engine regression because in most respects the engine has clearly improved from Witcher 3. When it comes to boxing in Witcher 3 v Cyberpunk, the enemies are way more varied and so forth now, but I was never, ever frustrated with I-frames and hit boxes like I have in Cyberpunk. Maybe we could have used third person specifically for boxing? I managed to get the last guy down to 20% legit no combat Body perks, no Gorilla arms, and 6 in body but only because legendary Short Circuit helps stunlock the guy by shocking him. But when I confirmed using a Sandevistan that unless you can dodge twice before either his or Rhino’s front kick attack the hit registers at the start of the animation so it’s pretty much asking players to do underhanded things to win like the weapon drop trick unless you make sure that move is never performed. Hell, given gorilla arms are allowed why not some defensive cyberware that can soften blows on demand with a cool down?
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Jan 11, 2021 14:49
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I think it’s fairly safe to say that the more side gigs you do the more you’ll see Arasaka and Militech as terrible organizations that are feared by everyone. I was also wrong in the game not showing the historical relationship between organized crime in East Asia and its relationship to both oppressive regimes and corporations - there’s enough quests showing that Arasaka and Militech work with various gangs and finance them, it’s just hidden in side gigs rather than the main story. As such, it is easy to miss this revelation among many others if you don’t find the right quests and see them for yourself. However, I don’t find this to be a fatal flaw because it mostly is a matter of you get more choices the more effort you put in. And in true CDPR fashion, there is no such thing as an “optimal” choice like much of our real world choices - it’s a question of your own moral compass and justifications, not whom the game designers deem as “worthy” of saving. There were better choice dichotomies in Witcher 3 but I’m sure they’re aware and get it.
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Jan 11, 2021 17:37
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The reward is romancing Regina... or you get to romance Adam Smasher, the ultimate cyberpsycho. The guy seriously sounds like a male pornstar. I’m waiting for the mod now
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Jan 11, 2021 21:40
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I’m a madman and am trying to get the all cars achievement. So how the hell do you scrounge up like 1.2M eddies when there’s not much left on the map anymore? I might just cheat for the cash but if there’s something fun to do to get money that would be cool.
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Jan 13, 2021 02:46
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I’ve done my share of access point hacking and bought about 4 80k+ cars and have been buying some expensive cyber mods on occasion but skipped Deadeye and Predator because they seem to be broken.
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Jan 13, 2021 03:23
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I was trying to figure out how many stupid jackets I’d have to make to get to 300k for an Aerondight and it was not a pleasant thought. I’ve been selling as much gear as I can that I find and doing access points but it’s still maybe 2k per pop if I’m lucky and normally grinding through crap. I didn’t realize difficulty affected loot drop rate until like level 42 when I realized that I could change difficulty in the middle of my play through that I started on normal, and the purples drop a lot more now at least.
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Jan 13, 2021 03:40
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Cyberpunked 2077
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Jan 13, 2021 23:14
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CDPR can get GOTY status for Cyberpunk if we can play as a cat from beginning to end. Cybercat 2077 where you get cyberclaws, cybertail, cyberteeth, and just give people allergies and ruin crime bosses' Zoom calls causing the downfall of Arasaka in the end.
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Jan 14, 2021 00:48
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The soundtrack met and exceeded my lofty expectations at least. But it really is a game that kept only one half of the legs that made Witcher 3 so good - a beautiful world with excellent, cinematic level music / score demands higher fidelity and cohesion in a busy world rather than a rural / low density setting where players can relax a little bit.
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Jan 14, 2021 14:35
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I started playing DX HR a few months ago to get myself hyped up a bit for Cyberpunk and this game just scratches my itch so much better it’s not even funny. Like Panam is way better of a character than the voice acted lines for Malik and while there’s some ok quests here and there the enemy variety is about 7 different total multiplied by race plus a few drone types and somehow going between different continents I swear I’m in the same drat city with different districts. The story for Deus Ex HR really seems more like a Hollywood action movie closer to a Mission Impossible: Cyberpunk than to something closer to an action version of Black Mirror that we can get from Cyberpunk. The fact that to do stealth in DX: HR you go running through ducts a bunch is made fun of in a random little spot on a roof in Cyberpunk, in fact (there’s a couple bodies and a data shard saying they’ll just go through the ducts). I’ve basically stopped with my DX:HR play through because I’ve realized I’m bored at the 75% ish mark and frankly don’t care much anymore for the characters and Jensen’s a generic Good Guy That Is Not Perfect required for a modern gaming crowd, if that makes any sense. So no, I can’t agree that DX: HR is incontestably better than Cyberpunk without better qualification of criteria for “good.” I don’t think the game is perfect or even a GOTY contender but I think it delivers the aesthetics and general mechanics of what I wanted from a Cyberpunk game and my issues stem more from a missed opportunity for CDPR to elevate the experience with a tighter story that works more with player decisions like the kind of gangs they take hits out on more. I think it can become much better through DLC, expansions, and patches to achieve about what I got out of the baseline Witcher 3 game emotionally. CDPR had a huge body of writing material to work with to form a narrative but never got that kind of masterful adaptation for Cyberpunk to draw in people new to the IP. Sure, plenty of people are playing the TT RPG again, but the desire and hunger for more is not quite there
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Jan 15, 2021 02:34
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I dunno about the mechanics of DX HR. Stealth in it honestly is frustrating unless you stand around looking carefully at how the AI works in a lot of cases. I’ve been trying to do a Ghost run on max difficulty, it’s a lot of inconsistent “why the hell did that guy see me?” and reloading constantly. I start out Cyberpunk with what takes many skill points to get to. Mankind Divided seems to start with a fully upgraded Adam while HR seems to be prior to any real abilities. I was able to figure out mechanics faster and the AI is sadly better than HR even though HR maps are closed and not open world. Sitting around waiting for energy bars to fill and to grab literal energy bars was far more annoying than the stuff I’ve had to do in Cyberpunk to get the satisfaction of ghosting through missions. Although, the Icarus Landing system in Cyberpunk would be awesome and appreciated. Instead, we got the legendary legs which is something I can’t recall seeing anywhere else
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Jan 15, 2021 03:32
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It’s possible people are on variations of contract 2 hire kind of arrangements which absolutely do exist and are surprisingly common in many industries outside of software (and I swear 40%+ of the software jobs I saw in Atlanta were contract 2 hire when I never once saw that anywhere else). But looking at an industry from the lens of “it’s all bad” from the most exploited workers is misleading as much as looking only at those who benefit most. What’s clear is that game devs everywhere work a ton everywhere and probably don’t make the same kind of money as commercial software engineers partly because the games industry is closely adjacent in market dynamics to Hollywood special effects studios which have long been a difficult business despite making so much money. The company that did the effects for Life of Pi was going through bankruptcy while the team was receiving an Oscar and during the award the guy was exit music taken off the stage when he started talking about the state of the effects industry in Hollywood. So really, you can unionize an industry but as long as another industry isn’t the buck will shift towards exploiting them as well. The games industry is following the same exact problems Hollywood had prior to unionization by the SAG and similar organizations.
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Jan 16, 2021 15:31
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There are other positions of nuance, many from within this very thread. The problem as usual is that online discourse tends toward the extremes as our attention spans are minimal and emotions and rhetoric matter more than facts and agreement.
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Jan 16, 2021 18:27
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The evidence I’m seeing so far is that CDPR is still running its software engineering processes like they’re a much smaller company and there’s not enough top-down technical guidance and discipline that drives the company. This is something that people experience at my own company that has literally top 5% pay equality / fairness for the industry and it results in a lot of passion writing code that customers will not see or care about, mediocre earnings multiplier to investors compared to our competitors, and high employee job satisfaction with barely any turnover. The more top-down vision is pushed the more the cowboy coders want to leave as well, which destroys institutional knowledge despite the swarm of talent. It makes little sense to me to abuse the thing you need most as a company - its IP IS the workers, not the licenses agreed upon or even the patents. What’s also missing in the general conversation is how much the departure of developers from Witcher 3 could have impacted the game and how the company’s product could have been impacted. For all its launch technical jankiness it was an absolutely magical experience for people that cared for the setting and the vision. That “magic” should be better quantified in management speak though to be replicated somehow for the successes of future products - this is what preserving company culture is about beyond the usual corpo speak. Magic is everything that can’t be measured that is, and if you rely upon too much magic you are not understanding your own company anymore. All these issues are literally the responsibility of management to understand and what they’re supposed to be paid to know intimately and steer away from letting entropy and sheer blood, sweat, and tears drive your game across a finish line.
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Jan 16, 2021 18:59
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I’m not sure if Netwatch is closer affiliated with corpo or Militech in 2077. On the other hand, VDB v Netwatch is a really good “holy poo poo, both suck” decision to make like in Witcher 3.
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Jan 17, 2021 04:57
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Witcher 3 has been selling more copies also because of prices dropping over time. Eventually I might buy it for use on Steam for kicks but my GOG copy I got via my GTX 970 purchase was worthwhile. I also got a copy of Arkham Knight which is another title that was fatally buggy upon release to the extent that people got mass refunds and I wound up with 2 other Batman games I never paid for and that now is quite stable and considered a Good Game it appears.
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Jan 18, 2021 22:36
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I’d have been pretty pumped to have cyber implants offer a thermal mode and I could pretend I’m Predator. But that takes extra effort for a mode that would be barely used. It made sense plenty in Splinter Cell though and it was handy for telling if someone was dead or unconscious from a distance.
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Jan 19, 2021 03:20
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The two factors for rolling on loot seems to be difficulty level and your player level. I was accidentally on normal for like 30 levels and after I bumped up to Very Hard I definitely saw way more rare and epic loot as well as substantially higher drops from access point hacking.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:42
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In a construction area lift not too far from the diner we hang with Kerry at there’s no Activate action available for me, so I can’t reach the legendary loot that dropped from the enemy on the second level. Not sure how stuff like this could glitch out when I’ve had some pretty mild geometry bugs that don’t really matter for gameplay.
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Jan 20, 2021 22:22
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