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QuarkJets posted:That said, from the jump it seems very clear to me that the series glorifies fascism, at least a little bit at first and then pretty strongly later on. It's something that's easily ignorable in season 1 because that's a lot of military training and titan fighting, but as the show goes on it that becomes harder to do. The series begins with "Our race (humanity) are besieged by an extremely powerful but incompetent enemy (titans)", a core tenet of fascist ideology. Sometimes aspects of this ideology are portrayed in a negative light (the military police). But by season 3 the survey corps (e.g. the army) are being glorified by the people and the goal of the series pivots to Lebensraum, and the protagonists accomplish that goal (yay Lebensraum!) I am so confused by this. Not even the subtext, the literal text itself refutes this, constantly and explicitly saying and showing how these ideologies destroy and dehumanize not just enemies, but the fascists themselves. I mean, the show even goes so far as to show how every single "mindless" titan is actually an innocent civilian literally pressed into service by a nation they don't even live in. The show has been overt in showing us how these ideologies take good, innocent people (children) and turn them into  inhuman monsters capable of mass genocide.
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Apr 12, 2021 01:47
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Yes but it "glorifies the military" you dummy You absolute clown
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Apr 12, 2021 01:52
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someone post the Gabi shooting over the "critic's" head picture again
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Apr 12, 2021 01:55
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QuarkJets posted:That said, from the jump it seems very clear to me that the series glorifies fascism, at least a little bit at first and then pretty strongly later on. It's something that's easily ignorable in season 1 because that's a lot of military training and titan fighting, but as the show goes on it that becomes harder to do. The series begins with "Our race (humanity) are besieged by an extremely powerful but incompetent enemy (titans)", a core tenet of fascist ideology. Sometimes aspects of this ideology are portrayed in a negative light (the military police). But by season 3 the survey corps (e.g. the army) are being glorified by the people and the goal of the series pivots to Lebensraum, and the protagonists accomplish that goal (yay Lebensraum!) While the series does begin with "humanity is besieged by an extremely powerful but incompetent inhuman enemy," it almost immediately pivots to "they're almost certainly actual humans" and then "yes, they're human" and finally "more over, they're explicitly kin." That is an important thing to note.
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Apr 12, 2021 02:08
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This is beside the point but I would argue that the titans are really loving competent at what they do.
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Apr 12, 2021 03:45
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The first chapter is the military getting its rear end kicked and Shadis breaking down in tears saying they all died for nothing. The Garrison is drunk and useless and Hanness flees. Even when humanity starts taking things seriously after the 104th graduate most of the Garrison still die holding the point and it takes a complete blindside no one saw coming to save them.
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Apr 12, 2021 03:49
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the show starts under a basic premise that is straight out of fascist propaganda, and then slowly but surely exposes every element of that original premise as a lie manufactured by fascists for the purposes of keeping themselves in powerQuarkJets posted:Then season 4 happens. The series shines a negative light on the antagonists, who are basically Nazi Germany, so there's that. The armbands are obviously not being portrayed as a good thing. These points are clearly very much opposed to fascism. But by the end of season 4 part 1 a bunch of characters are saying (paraphrased) "it would be really good if Eren could sterilize the entirety of our tainted race". This is complicated by the fact that the Jaegerists are also clearly antagonists, but then Armin, who has always been portrayed as a very empathetic and wise character, is literally moved to tears and calls this a noble goal. That's pretty hosed up! the thing is the show makes it so absurdly painfully clear that the "it would be really good if Eren could sterilize the entirety of our tainted race" viewpoint is the result of hardship placed upon those people by fascism. it's a tragic showcase of how fascism has so thoroughly broken the oppressed that they can no longer envision an escape better than nonexistence. the people carrying this belief have been portrayed as clear antagonists as well, if sympathetic ones
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Apr 12, 2021 07:41
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So every fiction with zombies support the fascist ideology, gotcha. I was blind before, now I can see.
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Apr 12, 2021 07:42
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QuarkJets posted:I've just finished rewatching all of the episodes through part 1 of the final season, without having ever read the Polygon article. Before this I had only seen the first two seasons and remembered liking them. I had a vague sense of the "this series glorifies fascism" argument and that it was based on some reveal that happens later, but I think political ideology (even horrifying political ideology) is a good enough reason to completely avoid a piece of media; at worst it helps you to better understand the thing that you want to fight against. 
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Apr 12, 2021 07:54
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ninjewtsu posted:the show starts under a basic premise that is straight out of fascist propaganda How? I genuinely don't see it. As McTimmy said McTimmy posted:The first chapter is the military getting its rear end kicked and Shadis breaking down in tears saying they all died for nothing. The Garrison is drunk and useless and Hanness flees. Even when humanity starts taking things seriously after the 104th graduate most of the Garrison still die holding the point and it takes a complete blindside no one saw coming to save them.
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Apr 12, 2021 10:01
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Alan_Shore posted:No follow up? It was the last episode! Maybe give it a couple more episodes before saying "no follow up" Jesus Christ lol (Indirect end of manga spoilers were here) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Somebody fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 11:46
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Turin Turambar posted:So every fiction with zombies support the fascist ideology, gotcha. Regrettably, often, yes. Zombies started out as the slave's fear of being worked beyond death. Romero took it and turned it into horror of being consumed by white consumer culture. Then white consumer culture took zombies and turned it into fear of the race war.
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Apr 12, 2021 12:26
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This is at least the third separate instance of people trying to "spoil" anime watchers to convince them the show is problematic (the previous ones that come to mind are the out of context "titans are Jews" tweet and the Polygon article which references the Jaegarists stuff we just saw). What is this obsession with poisoning the well? Why can't viewers just watch the show when it comes out and come to their own conclusions?
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Apr 12, 2021 14:30
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The manga ending has brought out a lot of shitters who crowed for years about hating the series all along. Also a bunch of rubberneckers. So that's probably why you've got randos who have never or rarely ever posted suddenly showing up to be jerks
Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 14:48
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Captain Invictus posted:The manga ending has brought out a lot of shitters who crowed for years about hating the series all along. Also a bunch of rubberneckers. So that's probably why you've got randos who have never or rarely ever posted suddenly showing up to be jerks Man, I knew that was going to happen. No one likes a "I told you so" more than people on a crusade to hate something.
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Apr 12, 2021 14:56
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Captain Invictus posted:The manga ending has brought out a lot of shitters who crowed for years about hating the series all along. Also a bunch of rubberneckers. So that's probably why you've got randos who have never or rarely ever posted suddenly showing up to be jerks My favorite flavor of that kind of post is the kind of person who hasn't watched or read the series itself but has read all the spoilers and talks about it being a trainwreck as if they're speaking from any authority on the matter.
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Apr 12, 2021 15:03
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It's the same sort of person who thinks "this thing is bad, therefore I don't need to worry about spoiling it, because I don't like the bad thing so I'm going to try to take away the mystery for them rather than let them make the decision on their own, because I'm right". Like "ending bad, so I'm going to immediately discuss it everywhere without spoiler tags since it doesn't deserve it" etc Generally when it's about a series that is so universally terrible like shield hero, nobody cares, but that series also doesn't have a dedicated thread to discuss current and potential plot points where people have been relatively good about not being shitters and spoiling things.
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Apr 12, 2021 15:09
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I always saw Zombies as libertarian power fantasy and then eventually proof that libertarianism doesn't work.
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Apr 12, 2021 15:44
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In the end the series had more to do with Robert Heinlein's bootstrap paradox story All You Zombies moreso than regular zombos. This is to its detriment btw.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:47
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I think if you've read the end of the manga you should gently caress off out of this thread tbh
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Apr 12, 2021 16:49
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Alan_Shore posted:I think if you've read the end of the manga you should gently caress off out of this thread tbh It's gonna be a long year of avoiding this.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:22
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I honestly think the thread should be closed until then. There isn’t much else to discuss until more previews come out, and until then, we’re just playing with fire.
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Apr 12, 2021 20:21
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I've read the manga and I am super excited to see the rest of this season in beautiful MAPPA animation. The action is so much easier to follow and I love everyone's performances with the voice acting. Other manga readers, let the anime folks enjoy things 
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Apr 12, 2021 20:41
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Do the Japanese typically use their equivalent of "corps" to describe military groups? I haven't seen a ton of anime, but on advice of a friend I watched some Demon Slayer and they also use "corps" in the name of their group. Maybe these are the only two shows that do that, and I just happen to only be exposed to them, but it struck me as a little odd. I mean it works and makes sense, I just think "corps" is an odd choice to start with, and to see it used in two separate shows got me thinking. Is that a direct translation, or is that the translator stretching because we don't have a word that's really equivalent and that's the closest we can come to their word?
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Apr 12, 2021 21:07
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I'm not sure of the answer but Bleach has "Corps" as well.
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Apr 12, 2021 21:15
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I think it's just one of those things where it's the closest translation to a fairly common Japanese word but it looks weird because English doesn't use it in quite the same way. Note: I have no factual basis for saying this. The one that sticks out to me is "cadre" which shows up in a couple of manga I've read and it's always struck me as sounding really clumsy
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Apr 12, 2021 21:29
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Still waiting for someone to explain the fascination with German culture that pervades every animated series I've seen that's produced in Japan.
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Apr 12, 2021 21:45
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Still waiting for someone to explain the fascination with German culture that pervades every animated series I've seen that's produced in Japan. It's foreign and therefore cool.
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Apr 12, 2021 21:56
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Still waiting for someone to explain the fascination with German culture that pervades every animated series I've seen that's produced in Japan. Japanese media uses foreign stuff to make their material more interesting and exotic. It just happens that the big three foreign influences on Japan in contemporary history have been the U.S.A., Germany, and Russia.  I mean, the U.S. uses random foreign poo poo (badly) all the time in it's media, too.
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Apr 12, 2021 21:57
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Japan has historically taken a lot of influence from German culture. On top of the obvious fact they were on the same side in WW2, the Japanese Diet was named and modelled after the Prussian legislative body of the same name.
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Apr 12, 2021 22:07
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Flesnolk posted:Japan has historically taken a lot of influence from German culture. On top of the obvious fact they were on the same side in WW2, the Japanese Diet was named and modelled after the Prussian legislative body of the same name. Yeah, this is more what I'm looking for. US media does use a lot of foreign influences to make something seem exotic or alien, but this is mostly used in scifi. I can't think of an equivalent where most US shows always use a particular, foreign cultural touchstone (for instance, the German word for hunter, "jaeger," appears in multiple contexts across the shows I've seen). Maybe in the early 2000s when US TV shows would use Arabic themes to identify "these are the bad guys who are up to no good." It is so prevalent and so overt that I want there to be an explanation beyond "they were allies in WWII." The Japanese fascination with German culture goes beyond homage and into worship.
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Apr 12, 2021 22:19
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Flesnolk posted:Japan has historically taken a lot of influence from German culture. On top of the obvious fact they were on the same side in WW2, the Japanese Diet was named and modelled after the Prussian legislative body of the same name. In addition to the Imperial Japanese Constitution being designed with help from German advisors, they were also important in modernizing the military as well as medicine. Foreign advisors left a huge mark on modern Japanese society during the Meiji Restoration.
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Apr 12, 2021 22:21
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I believe their education system is also based on the German system
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Apr 12, 2021 22:49
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guys, guys, i think their language is based on german too 
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Apr 12, 2021 23:10
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RVT posted:Do the Japanese typically use their equivalent of "corps" to describe military groups? If it's 軍団/Gundan then 'corps' is a pretty standard way to translate it. It's a pretty generic term for military force branch/subdivision, akin to the Marine Corps and generally used in a pretty similar way.
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Apr 12, 2021 23:47
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Kchama posted:If it's 軍団/Gundan then 'corps' is a pretty standard way to translate it. It's a pretty generic term for military force branch/subdivision, akin to the Marine Corps and generally used in a pretty similar way. Thanks. From the AoT wiki "The Survey Corps (調査兵団 Chōsa Heidan?)" in case that changes your thoughts. I'd be interested to hear. Sorry, I think I misread your second sentence. You're saying in Japanese that it is used as a pretty generic term. If that's the case, that explains why we see it so often and the disconnect I'm having. RVT fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 00:16
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nabo posted:guys, guys, i think their language is based on german too 
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Apr 13, 2021 01:59
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So I got a legit gripe about the last episode. What was Pieck's plan with luring Eren where she did? Was Porco supposed to disable Eren so he couldn't transform? Was he actually trying to eat Eren and just missed? It seems like in the past if anyone got even the tiniest bit lazy or sloppy or just overlooked the most remote contingency then things would go very badly very fast. Even just a few seconds ago you had Eren with a pinprick ready to transform in an instant, but then he seems to totally just relax and give Pieck the benefit of the doubt. In the end it gave us a cool and dramatic transformation and face off between Eren and Marley but didn't seem to have any consequences. Also did Porco end up murdering all those other people in the crowd he was with?
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Apr 13, 2021 22:12
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The plan was to pinpoint Eren's location so that they could attempt to either secure the Founder with a sneak attack, or failing that follow up with the pre-planned surgical strike using the Marleyan paratroopers (and Reiner). Secondary objective of rescuing Falco and Gabi. Pieck managed to accomplish most of this by getting her hands on Gabi, and luring Eren out into the open so that they could engage him directly - it'd be extremely difficult to get their hands on him if he just evacuated without even transforming, so getting him out was important. Eren was also on his guard the entire time, as you can see from him keeping his distance and be ready to transform at the drop of the hat once they reached the roof.
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Apr 14, 2021 00:26
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Edited out wrong info Edit: someone has changed my avatar to what appears to be an AoT one, I can't see what it is on the app so it might be a spoiler? loving oval office Alan_Shore fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Apr 14, 2021 |
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Apr 14, 2021 02:14
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