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I think the ultimate theme of the show is "utilitarianism is fine, but only if you have an equal chance of being the one guy that gets run over by the trolley." Zeke setting himself up to be the antagonist that claims ultimate power so he can sacrifice a ton of other people would tie into that, though it feels a bit too predictable
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Dec 15, 2020 07:34
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Remember when owl started talking about armin and mikasa and then eren's dad asked him what the hell he's talking about then he just went "uh, dude, I have no loving idea" I want a follow up on that
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Dec 21, 2020 17:40
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I'm really into this season's ED The OP is pretty good too. I prefer red swan but the visuals in this one are definitely hitting a strong note for me.
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Dec 22, 2020 02:33
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I do like the idea of playing a "the titans are attacking and eating everyone" theme at the same time that eren kills all these innocent people in titan form
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Jan 14, 2021 06:02
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He's as much of a villain as the colossal titan was
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Jan 14, 2021 23:49
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I think the point was that his goal here is to kill everyone there so minimizing civilian casualties just doesn't really matter. Maybe if he had gone about it in a different way those specific innocents maybe could have survived but I'm guessing next episode is going to involve turning an awful lot of the district into rubble. It'd be like asking "why did the colossal titan kick down the wall gate and crush some poor people under debris instead of politely picking it up for all the titans to enter paradis?"
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Jan 15, 2021 23:48
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The animation is fine but I really wish the direction was a bit stronger. A lot of these scenes could have been really powerful and instead they're just pretty neat
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Jan 18, 2021 22:52
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I thought the cgi was fine. There was a couple shots of titan eren that didnt look great but it was mostly good But also if I notice that something is cgi I dont consider that an instant mark against it until it actually looks bad
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Jan 19, 2021 00:35
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The only one I didn't like was jean, I couldn't tell it was him until the show told me
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Jan 19, 2021 01:20
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I forget, is there a reason eren didnt get his dad's memories like all the other shifters get the memories of the previous shifter? Was it a trauma lock where he did get the memories but was suppressing them, or was something else going on too? Also is willie still in the stomach of the first titan body that eren got out of? Did we see him actually get chomped, or is it possible he's chilling in the attack titan's stomach like what happened to eren when he got eaten by a titan? Have we really seen what happens when a shifter eats a person and then deshifts? ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 18:44
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Was willy actually mangled? What're the chances he's still alive inside of eren's discarded titan body?
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Jan 19, 2021 21:16
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Aw sick I gotta rewatch the episode then
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Jan 19, 2021 22:41
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I thought the idea was those night titans were freshly made, so they started with a "full battery" and would be able to move until drained, at which point it would be back to solar panel rules
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Jan 20, 2021 01:22
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i still really like the first season but yeah the second season is definitely better
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Jan 23, 2021 08:10
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Yawgmoft posted:Is there any actual confirmation that only Eldians transform when injected with Titan fluid? I mean I know a bad guy said that, but as long as they keep the Titan succession going, they could just pretend any marginal group was the one and only group that could do it. It's not like people are going around injecting Titan blood in people to ensure they aren't Eldian. I can think of no content in the show that supports or invalidates this theory
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Jan 26, 2021 21:39
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Can Zeke turn people into titans, or does he control the titanification process after they've already been injected? 1. If he can just turn people into titans, why didnt he turn the survey corps into titans in season 3? 2. If they need to be injected first, how did he individually inject everyone in an entire village in season 2 without anyone getting away?
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Jan 26, 2021 21:58
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i think a big thing we're seeing with the shifters this season vs previous seasons is the only actually experienced shifter we saw at all pre s4 was zeke. eren was a complete newbie and bertoldt, annie, reiner, and ymir had very little time with their powers too (much like how eren was a shifter for years before he became aware of it at trost, the other shifters spent that same amount of time not shifting at all and stagnating in their skill with it, and they were all also children who had freshly gotten their titan forms before that). this season all these characters have had 4 years of either warfare on the marley side or presumably pretty regular training on the paradis side. it's why eren can now casually form a third attack titan in quick succession and why armin can control his steam output to the point of being a mini nuke when he shifts. there's years of difference between the amateur shifters we're used to and the current shifters, all their powers are going to be comparatively off the charts
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Jan 27, 2021 05:46
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Why were asian people apparently along for the ride when it comes to moving into paradis? Shouldn't it have only been mind controlled eldians? Wouldn't mikasa's grandma also remember the original history, since as a non-eldian they wouldn't have been forced to forget?
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Jan 28, 2021 18:02
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But the Ackermanns were her dad's side of the family, and her mom was the asian, right? So was her mom part of an entirely different noble family that also wanted to chill out in a cabin in the woods or whatever? If she was part of a noble family due to her asian heritage how come she was the last asian, it's just the ackermanns that were in bad standing with the royalty right?
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Jan 28, 2021 18:13
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Alan_Shore posted:I think it's normal that you'd want Eren et al to absolutely smash Marley and even the Eldians who live there but also see the whole thing as a tragic set of circumstances with no good end. I think the whole purpose of season 4 up to this point is that while wanting that and feeling that is normal, it's also wrong
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Feb 3, 2021 23:32
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I'd also agree that present day germans are not personally responsible for the holocaust as an event they need to dedicate their lives and their children's lives to atoning for, so uh
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Mar 1, 2021 17:25
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Aren't neo nazis usually pretty into the whole "because of your race you are responsible for x" thing
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Mar 1, 2021 17:27
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Forgall posted:No, but they should be keeping an eye out for people in their country who would like a redo, since it already happened once. That is not even remotely what gabi was asking that random girl to do Like this was literally a conversation where a child asked "why was my mom horrifically murdered" and another child is telling her "because your filthy blood is responsible for atrocities centuries ago and your mom loving deserved it shitstain" The child replying "my mom didnt do that that doesnt mean she deserved to die" is not a loving neo nazi argument ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Mar 1, 2021 |
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Mar 1, 2021 19:07
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Aren't both Marley and paradis given Germanic visual affiliation? Just Marley is like, 1930s Germany, or at least it was in the grisha flashback
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Mar 1, 2021 19:08
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In my personal experience that kind of blood sin language tends to be antisemitic more often than not, idk how you reach all the way around to this being a pro fascist argument
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Mar 1, 2021 21:06
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either the armbands or the 1930s germany aesthetics would be fine on their own but since the two are combined i can't entirely 100% fault someone for thinking at first glance that AoT might be kinda fascist
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Mar 2, 2021 04:19
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Pootybutt posted:Nah, "saying that Koreans treat Japanese people the same as Nazis treated the Jews" holds water if you hold the interpretation Paradis is a metaphor for Japan(isolated island nation that willingly gave up its military force, surrounded by hostile neighbors who dog their every lil attempt to assert themselves on the world stage due to earlier imperialistic atrocities said island's govm is devoted to denying to its people). I believe yeah, it's plainly a metaphor for Japan, and yeah, conflating historical treatment of Jews w global scrutiny put on Japan is p bizarre and offensive. It still is, and two manga chapters from the finale, I still don't know what Isayama thought he was driving at there, cuz WOOF what an unfortunate and unthought-out barrel of implications THAT is. It's OK to admit when it's apparent to you a creative perhaps doesn't know what he's talking about. I do really want to know how the mushroom cloud clear-nuke-imagery from paradis' use of the colossal titan fits into this
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Mar 2, 2021 21:02
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Pootybutt posted:Ask the writer w me, I'd love to know. I sure hope it isn't what it looked like for awhile there, ie. "Japan should go nuclear." Well see, if your reading of the story can't account for all elements of the story I'm not sure I'd consider it a valid reading. I don't really know very much about the author's intent but this reading was the most convincing one I've seen asserting that AoT is actually fascist, so I was wondering if it could account for the nuke imagery compellingly And i guess the answer is "not really, but it's possible the author is not just fascist but super extra turbo fascist and future story elements might help fit the nuke imagery in." Which is kind of a depressing read on a story I've always read as very powerfully antifascist, but I suppose until the story is complete there's no telling which way it might turn.
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Mar 2, 2021 21:14
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You'd think a post ww2 japan allegory would have some very, very heavy direct analogues to the nukes that were dropped on them. I guess that would be when shiganshina was originally kicked down? But this happens very long after their "willing" disarmament of their military, and in story more or less serves as the impetus for rearmament. Which is, uh, the opposite of how I'd expect a historical allegory to play japan getting nuked. I'm not sure what the paradis=japan reading is really making of the titans or how they're initially viewed as unknowable monsters or what's meaningful about that understanding being entirely wrong and actually, the titans are just mutated brethren of the paradisians. The more I think about it the less it seems like what the story is aiming for so much as what you'd get if you went in with a conclusion already in mind. There's just major aspects of the show that don't really fit and apparently the answer to why don't they fit is "good question, you should ask the author"
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Mar 3, 2021 00:22
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Martman posted:As an anime-only person I'm very confused by the bad poster's take that the rumbling is being presented as inevitable, necessary, etc... I think the rumbling is being presented as inevitable and necessary now, with the major sticking point being that it might've not been necessary, but eren forced everyone's hand before other options could be properly explored and considered (though other options were looking a little dry).
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Mar 4, 2021 21:39
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No?
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Mar 22, 2021 18:23
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Assuming you're doing the eldians = Jews thing 99% of all named characters are "jews." 2 of them have been shown to have extreme internalized "antisemitism" as a result of their wildly hosed up upbringing and life circumstances. Attack on titan is certainly making a commentary on fascism and genocide and to dent that would be insane, but to say the show hasn't been sympathetic to the primary cast or that it puts forward a reasonable argument for their execution is, uh, not exactly true. What it has done is shown that combinations of life circumstances might bring a sympathetic character to hold those views but if you think Zeke is the good guy here or that we're still supposed to be rooting for eren I dunno what to tell you man ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 18:26
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Yeah they sure do keep on bringing that topic up. I wonder what recent episodes might've had to say on the topic though. Perhaps there was a character deeply entrenched in that concept who got into an argument with a friend who's mom died who made some pretty compelling disagreements with the concept.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:30
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Alan_Shore posted:Do morons see characters wearing armbands and just start screeching JEWSSSSSS I mean I'd be alarmed if people saw the armbands and didn't immediately start asking if the show had antisemitic messaging or not, that's definitely the kind of thing that should make you do a double take because it would be extremely easy for that to result in an antisemitic story Luckily attack on titan is good and doesn't use the imagery to antisemitic ends. I kinda wish it was a little less blatant so it didn't look quite so bad out of context, but I do also really appreciate iseyama not trying to dance around it and just being upfront about what historical context the imagery is definitely supposed to evoke.
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Mar 22, 2021 19:06
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Oh I didnt realize that blood libel and blood curse are actually 2 entirely different antisemitic concepts lmao, I thought they were bringing up the blood curse thing
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Mar 22, 2021 19:07
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Ehhhhhh the 1930s Germany aesthetics really lock it in, I don't think there's really a ton of room to argue on that front. It's definitely intentional that iseyama wants you to be thinking about specifically jewish ghettos when it comes to the eldians in Marley
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Mar 22, 2021 19:50
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The titans definitely serve as the stand in for the otherized enemy in a fascist society. That they specifically are an analogue for Jews is completely absurd though
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Mar 23, 2021 16:04
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mightygerm posted:This is more of a general comment, but every character in a work of fiction doesn’t have to be a commentary on social issues. I don’t think it’s the authors responsibility to ensure that every deception of controversial behavior is portrayed as villainous. For one, there’s a ton of grey areas regarding morality and ethics in anything except the most extreme scenarios, and readers from different backgrounds can interpret things differently. what the author intended or what would or would not be reasonable to expect of them can make for interesting conversation, but when it comes down to what the work means or the message that it sends that's all just a footnote. relevant, but not really the point. if a brutal military leader is being glorified with no alternative reading, then well, you don't get to just pretend they don't exist or something when talking about what the work means or what it is saying.
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Mar 24, 2021 06:34
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zeke has definitely spent waaaaaaay more time fighting in his titan form that reiner has. you can count on one hand the number of times reiner has shifted before that fight started, while zeke spent the 4 years reiner and pals were living in the walls being used to wage war on marley's other enemies. reiner is essentially a complete amateur going up against a veteran, even if zeke's titan is less suited for direct combat
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Mar 27, 2021 20:49
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i think it'll be a bigger twist if eren actually goes for the forced sterilzation plan over using zeke to make some other change. there's been a decent amount of emphasis on how zeke is the key that unlocks the power, but it's not his to use - eren is the one that decides what change is actually happening. maybe he's going to make every eldian ridiculously buff with bulletproof skin i dunno i think the first shift is a freebie (you need an injury of some kind to set it off) but once you're pulled out of the titan there's typically a waiting period before you can shift again (eren flagrantly broke this rule constantly during the liberio fight so it seems with training this rule isn't super hard). it is during this waiting period that injuring the shifter will prevent transformation - their ability to transform and their ability to regenerate use the same juice, and regeneration takes priority. i guess maybe a way to think of it is if it's the first transformation, they have a full tank of magic titan juice already, so they can insta-regen -> shift, but after the first shift they don't have enough juice to transform anymore, and injuring them forces their body to expend the incoming magic titan juice on regeneration, so they never build up enough to shift again as long as you keep hurting them faster than they regenerate i think in the context of the most recent episode a large part of it is they're indoors, so transforming would send debris everywhere and kill everyone else in the room. doesn't seem city threatening to me exactly so idk what's up with that, we haven't seen armin in action nearly as much as we saw bertoldt, maybe things work a little differently for him (like how ymir didn't have the giant faceplate on her jaw titan, it seems there's significant variation between shifters of the same titan)
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Mar 30, 2021 00:43
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