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In retrospect, I should have specified a shiny metal eye-covering mask, yes. Legit: my cloth probably illegal Christopher Squire mask. Shoot on sight: Char, Zechs, McGillis Fareed.
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Apr 27, 2023 17:36
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Zorak of Michigan posted:In retrospect, I should have specified a shiny metal eye-covering mask, yes. But what about the shittiest Char, from Victory?
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Apr 27, 2023 17:41
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Fivemarks posted:But what about the shittiest Char, from Victory? Wasn't he more sane than average for Zanscare?
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Apr 27, 2023 17:57
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wdarkk posted:Wasn't he more sane than average for Zanscare? He literally wore a mask because he couldn't stand the filthy smell of earthlings. Chronicle Asher is pretty goddamned pathetic.
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Apr 28, 2023 01:40
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Fivemarks posted:He literally wore a mask because he couldn't stand the filthy smell of earthlings. Chronicle Asher is pretty goddamned pathetic. Yeah, but by Zanscare standards he's pretty close to the middle.
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Apr 28, 2023 01:57
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wdarkk posted:Yeah, but by Zanscare standards he's pretty close to the middle. Sure if we're judging by sanity.
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Apr 28, 2023 02:00
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This is probably the place to ask, but I cannot be bothered to watch the original Gundam. What’s Zeons beef? They don’t seem so oppressed that they don’t have their own line of mechs that don’t look anything like what Earth has (in fact I gather earth doesn’t have any mechs, until the OG (original gundam))?
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Apr 28, 2023 02:12
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The justification is that Spacenoids are being oppressed by the Earth Federation (which they are), but most of the time Zeon's motivation is just "Fascist Assholes Want Power"
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Apr 28, 2023 02:25
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Sir DonkeyPunch posted:This is probably the place to ask, but I cannot be bothered to watch the original Gundam. What’s Zeons beef? They don’t seem so oppressed that they don’t have their own line of mechs that don’t look anything like what Earth has (in fact I gather earth doesn’t have any mechs, until the OG (original gundam))? So Zeon is named after a guy named Zeon Deikun. He and a lot of other high thinkers and elite who live on one of the space colonies develop a philosophy calling for the settlement of space to allow the Earth's environment to recover. The Earth Federation uses the space colonies to prop up its economy and generally prevent the colonies from having self governance. Deikun's colony eventually does gain some autonomy but there are internal power struggles between his family and the other social elite. Either because he worked himself to death or he was poisoned, Deikun dies and in the vacuum that follows the Zabi family takes control of the colony and renames it after Zeon to rally people to their side and establish a ruling dynasty over the colony. Zeon begins developing mechs to fight against the Earth. As poo poo spirals out of control Zeon turns to fascism and space imperialism, usING historical grudges and corrupted philosophies of spacenoid superiority over the corrupt and decadent Earth Federation to stir up anti Earth resentment in the population. Then they kill five billion people in one week by massacring the other colonies who sided with Earth and dropping one colony onto Earth, obliterating southeastern Australia and most of Asia and North America in a firestorm of falling meteors. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Apr 28, 2023 |
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Apr 28, 2023 02:26
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Sir DonkeyPunch posted:This is probably the place to ask, but I cannot be bothered to watch the original Gundam. What’s Zeons beef? They don’t seem so oppressed that they don’t have their own line of mechs that don’t look anything like what Earth has (in fact I gather earth doesn’t have any mechs, until the OG (original gundam))? Zeon Zum Deikum, the big ideology guy for this movement, won more autonomy for Zeon and then died under mysterious circumstances. Zeon's political establishment was then taken over by big wheels and oligarchs who resided in Zeon, primarily the Zabi family, who built up a large military force and struck at the other colony clusters and Earth. The invasion of Earth eventually failed; a huge number of the colonies were destroyed or devastated in the process, as those clusters were given the choice of "join us or die" and an answer other than "Sieg Zeon!" or "A carefully studied and formal confirmation of our neutrality from this conflict" was met with things like mass poison gas attacks in an enclosed habitat. The Earth Federation had no Mobile Suits at the start of the war but the technology was all laying around, so they were able to stall the Zeon with conventional tanks, aircraft, and spaceships long enough to invent the GM, which was sort of the Hellcat to the Zaku's Zero. The titular Gundam was a testbed for the technology in the GM, which is why it was so badass; the other funky mechs in the original show are usually specialist units, one-off wonder-weapons, or attempts to cram out a successor to the Zaku too late to make any difference. It is kind of unusual for presenting a political independence movement as the bad guy, but they did kind of drop several emptied space colonies on Earth. Or maybe just one, but it broke up and hit in a couple of places, rather than its intended target of EF Command.
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Apr 28, 2023 02:30
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There are a lot of intentional parallels between Zeon "Liberating Space" and the Imperial Japanese "Liberating Asia",
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Apr 28, 2023 02:33
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Sir DonkeyPunch posted:This is probably the place to ask, but I cannot be bothered to watch the original Gundam. What’s Zeons beef? They don’t seem so oppressed that they don’t have their own line of mechs that don’t look anything like what Earth has (in fact I gather earth doesn’t have any mechs, until the OG (original gundam))? Their leader is space Hitler, in that he's literally compared to Hitler in the original series by his father, who is Zeon's figurehead/puppet leader. He wants to rule the world. It's a mildly complex thing as, with so many other things in Gundam, the various different works and background materials are sometimes conflicting. I think Origin shows Side 3 being pretty heavily oppressed by the Federation before becoming independent in a semi-violent revolution, while I think a lot of the old print works make it a lot less bloodless. IIRC, the old version is there wasn't much of a Federation occupation/repression, with the EFSF only being created in response to Side 3 declaring their independence as the Republic of Zeon in the mid-0050s, and Side 3 simply not wanted to be ruled by people on Earth. Zeon Zum Deikun dies like a decade later, the Zabi family takes over, asserts control as the Principality of Zeon, Gihren starts to assume control, and by the mid-0070s they're developing mobile suits and clearly preparing for war. Zeon frames it as "war of spacenoid independence", and in the old print versions of the One Year War, they begin it by pretty much wiping out all of Sides 1, 2, and 4 and the 3~ billion people in them by opening fire on the colonies of the other Sides (Just to clarify the terminology within Gundam, each Side is a group of 50~ space colonies, each colony typically having a population of several million) with mega particle cannons and nukes and poison gas exactly 3 seconds after they declared war and exterminating them over the course of the first week of the war, dropping a colony on Earth that kills a few billion more people as part of the opening week, and then a week later annihilating Side 5 and another billion odd people in the fuckoff huge Battle of Loum (Which I think I mentioned earlier in this thread, but there's like 4 or 5 different versions of that). All of which is to say, they wanted Space Lebensraum, to control everyone in Earth Sphere, and for the Earth Federation to not be a thing anymore. fartknocker fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Apr 28, 2023 |
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Apr 28, 2023 02:36
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Nessus posted:which was sort of the Hellcat to the Zaku's Zero. The titular Gundam was a testbed for the technology in the GM, which is why it was so badass; the other funky mechs in the original show are usually specialist units, one-off wonder-weapons, or attempts to cram out a successor to the Zaku too late to make any difference. Point of order! The Hellcat was the F6F, introduced in 1943 and outclassed the Zero. The GM would be more of a Wildcat.
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Apr 28, 2023 02:44
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mllaneza posted:Point of order! The Hellcat was the F6F, introduced in 1943 and outclassed the Zero. The GM would be more of a Wildcat. No he had it right the first time- the GM absolutely outclassed the Zaku 2- it was against things like the Rick Dom and Gelgoog that it struggled.
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Apr 28, 2023 02:48
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In other words, wow cool robot
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Apr 28, 2023 02:50
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Fivemarks posted:No he had it right the first time- the GM absolutely outclassed the Zaku 2- it was against things like the Rick Dom and Gelgoog that it struggled. Yeah, the GM in general outclasses the Zaku II. It and the Rick Dom are more evenly matched, IIRC the Rick Dom has better acceleration and armor, but the GM had better maneuverability in close and often beam weaponry that made the armor not matter as much. The Gelgoog is basically the Me-262 in that it was super advanced and probably better than most GM variants, but Zeon was running out of experienced pilots for them which badly hurt their performance in combat, they only built 230~ of all types of MS-14 (With a number never leaving Side 3 or the occupied lunar cities) so there weren't anywhere near enough of them to make the impact needed, and they didn't see combat until the last weeks of the war.
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Apr 28, 2023 02:53
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As a kid I always got the impression that Gelgoog was supposed to be on par with the Gundam and the pilots were the difference
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Apr 28, 2023 02:57
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RBA Starblade posted:As a kid I always got the impression that Gelgoog was supposed to be on par with the Gundam and the pilots were the difference It is pretty much that. By the end of the war Amuro was outperforming what the Gundam was capable of and they needed to upgrade it to match his reaction times. The Gelgoog caught up to the Gundam spec-wise but most Zeon pilots were dead so the suit performed poorly. Gundam is a show about transcending the physical boundaries of understanding and freeing our souls from the weight of the material world but most discussions devolve into comparing technical specs. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Apr 28, 2023 |
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Apr 28, 2023 03:18
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Yeah, the other side of the Zeon ideology was that as humans resided in space, eventually a new type of human being would arise who would be capable of communication and understanding. This term got applied to relatively subtle (at first) psychic abilities that emerged, particularly among people who survived multiple rounds of Mobile Suit dogfights. In the original show, its peak use was to control remote weaponry, which ANOTHER piece of technobabble (Minovsky particles - which gently caress up EM radiation, so you can't use radar in combat and the 'radio' type stuff in the show is microwave/laser communication) rendered normally impossible. This, plus telepathic/tele-empathic communication among some characters, was as far as it went. It went somewhat further in later works set in the same universe. 
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Apr 28, 2023 03:32
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Fivemarks posted:No he had it right the first time- the GM absolutely outclassed the Zaku 2- it was against things like the Rick Dom and Gelgoog that it struggled. Oh. I'd had the impression the GM was sub-par. Noted.
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Apr 28, 2023 03:45
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mllaneza posted:Oh. I'd had the impression the GM was sub-par. Noted. Good performance, mostly mediocre pilots.
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Apr 28, 2023 03:48
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mllaneza posted:Oh. I'd had the impression the GM was sub-par. Noted.
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Apr 28, 2023 03:49
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The original Mobile Suit Gundam spends about as little time establishing whether the Federation oppressed the colonies as Gundam Wing, but it matters less because all the very, very clear fascist parallels and aesthetics do enough to establish the whole thing as mainly a war of Zeon aggression. The new upstart nation having a whole royal family is a bit unusual, but it keeps dynamics simpler and easier to follow. Garma is kind of Zeon's Princess Di. The show does later touch on the Earth Federation's military being mean, and later series tend to try to be more sympathetic to Zeon, which makes for some interesting and complex stories, adds a lot of depth, but it's always weird when they try that while Zeon's still got a bunch of Nazi paraphernalia. They're only sometimes racist I guess? The fandom gets really weird about it.
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Apr 28, 2023 04:08
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The franchise doesn't help itself when they release games and sidestories about how Zeon's elite crack pilots are a team of cute girls who just want to do cute girl things and it's such a shame that there's a war going on.
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Apr 28, 2023 04:14
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The best Zeon-sympathetic sidestory is the one that is about an office lady who is a Gundam otaku and also the thing is sort of a reimagining of the story of the original Mobile Suit Gundam but in a gender-flipped office. https://mangadex.org/title/f880d7fe-358f-4c81-ae0f-7186951606b7/gundam-otaku-gir
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Apr 28, 2023 04:25
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mllaneza posted:Oh. I'd had the impression the GM was sub-par. Noted. Arc Hammer posted:Good performance, mostly mediocre pilots. It's example #4000 of conflicting older sources and whatnot. The GM was always better than the Zaku, but some claim it was prone to breaking down, others said it was one of the most mechanically reliable designs. How much better than the Zaku varied from minimal, barely worth mentioning to outclassing the basic MS-06F in most respects. Even the pilot and training is something that's not consistent. There's been occasionally something made of combat data from Amuro's RX-78 (And other early deployed units, such as as Kojima battalion from 08th MS Team) being useful in both the final design and deployment of the GM, as well as helping to train GM pilots, so that on average they went into combat in the big offensives at the end of the war better prepared than Zeon's pilots, who were frequently described as barely trained cadets and student pilots and so on. I think Thunderbolt goes heavily in the opposite direction and shows the Federation also just shoving teenagers into GMs and sending them off to die, and the rank and file Federation units don't exactly give great showings in the other OYW-era works (Particularly 0080), so as with most stuff, it's a mess 
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Apr 28, 2023 04:51
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While I dunno if it's intentional there's also vibes of The War Of Earthly Aggression.Arc Hammer posted:Good performance, mostly mediocre pilots. I think there's a running theme of trying to base production models on your custom jobs and prototypes your ace pilots pull off anime protagonist poo poo in is actually a bad idea, compared to making stuff that's easy to use even if it's less flashy or flexible on paper. Reminds me of how the Jedi Starfighter ended up being the basis for the TIE Fighter, as priorities changed and they no longer had superhuman precognitive pilots who didn't need shields. (Besides the one)
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Apr 28, 2023 09:47
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I always loved in X Wing v TIE Fighter how the Empire prioritized speed over safety, as they had the numbers, whereas the Republic went with shields, as they had to protect the few pilots they had.
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Apr 28, 2023 10:14
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The show kind of forgot the thing they harped on in the first half that both sides were so depleted they were mass conscripting teens.
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Apr 28, 2023 13:44
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Most of the UC sequels after the original show were set some time after and tended to involve smaller and more flexible military forces. I think there was also like an eight year period so the manpower pool refilled somewhat with hot-headed teens. The really brain-blasting thing is that before the show starts, half of the extant human population got blown the gently caress up. It's no wonder everyone seemed slightly crazy. That's Black Death population loss.
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Apr 28, 2023 14:56
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Up Circle posted:The show kind of forgot the thing they harped on in the first half that both sides were so depleted they were mass conscripting teens. Well that's kind of iffy because that was a mistranslation in the English version. It wasn't that "both sides lost half their respective populations", it was that half of the entire species was killed within a month. Zeon came out of the initial fighting comparatively unscathed but still needed recovery time because it was one nation versus the rest of humanity and even with a huge technological edge they still couldn't compete with Earth's manpower. Earth was so desperate for new recruits that they lowered the draft to something like 14/15 because there were so many dead. Zeon was mainly using adult pilots for most of the war and only started dipping into the conscripts in the last few months as they were worn down by attrition losses. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Apr 28, 2023 |
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Apr 28, 2023 15:32
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Remember that the very first episode of Gundam is about a team of Zaku pilots trying to steal/destroy the prototype Gundam because they're worried that Earth Federation engineers will build a better mobile suit. And then Amuro proves that fear to be correct by absolutely owning them.
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Apr 28, 2023 18:43
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Thanks for the answers y’all
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Apr 28, 2023 21:32
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Warhammer Titans They absolutely look impractical and that's sort of the point since they need to match everything else in the setting. They're walking icons of the machine god that look like hunched monstrosities covered in guns, a true 40K icon
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May 1, 2023 14:16
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Void warfare in 40K is fun because you occasionally have species trying to fight in a more practical manner only to realize that their enemies fight in such a stupid yet overwhelmingly violent manner that they have to meet game with game. The Tau like to believe they're rational aliens and that nobody would be crazy enough to build a walking castle with guns. Likewise in space the Tau get a rude awakening when the castle built into a rocket ship decides to ram them.
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May 1, 2023 14:49
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Arc Hammer posted:It is pretty much that. By the end of the war Amuro was outperforming what the Gundam was capable of and they needed to upgrade it to match his reaction times. The Gelgoog caught up to the Gundam spec-wise but most Zeon pilots were dead so the suit performed poorly. Really huge missed opportunity not to call it the Getgood
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May 2, 2023 08:55
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Professor Shark posted:I always loved in X Wing v TIE Fighter how the Empire prioritized speed over safety, as they had the numbers, whereas the Republic went with shields, as they had to protect the few pilots they had. Resistance showed a bit of TIE training under the First Order. It was explicitly "survival of the fittest"/"every pilot for themselves" all the way. Pilots were trained to get the kill no matter what. Promotions and rewards were all based on success of the individual pilot. Even if it meant getting in the way of another pilot's shot. Or flying in a way which got another pilot killed - as long as you killed your target and succeeded in the mission. Helping another pilot in trouble was also frowned on. A trainee lost her position as squad leader because she saved another pilot from dying when his ship went out of control rather than focusing on her mission. Flying in formation was for patrols, in combat it was every one for themselves. Which jives with how TIEs have been shown to operate in pretty much every show and movie. A good example was when the Imperial Remnants were chasing Bo Katan through the valley on her homeworld at the end of the last season of The Mandalorian. All the ships got down into the valley with her, despite it making much more sense for at least one ship to remain back at a higher altitude. But that would have meant they didn't get the kill and probably would have been punished for being weak.
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May 3, 2023 11:34
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Arc Hammer posted:
All Toonami ads are great
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May 16, 2023 17:47
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Sanguinia posted:All Toonami ads are great But not all Toonami ads were voiced by Optimus Prime.
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May 16, 2023 19:36
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First Legend of the Galactic Heroes Movie. Fourth Battle of Tiamat. https://youtu.be/PKMjzhghMTc The shooting starts at 4:58
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