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TropicalCoke
Feb 14, 2012


I read a biography of Giap, and I was surprised to learn that a brigade of Japanese soldiers stayed behind in French Indochina and made an agreement with the Viet Minh to fight the French. Not sure what legacy they had by the time the French were gone.

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Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

No, see, they're French. We're American, so we know what we're doing.

Solaris 2.0
May 14, 2008



Embers of War by Fredrik Longevall is another must read if you are interested in the Indochina War.

Basically, yes there were units of Japanese Army soldiers who sided with the Viet Minh in late 1945-early 1946 because, honestly, gently caress France. In fact when the surrender documents were signed, the IJA forces basically let the Viet Minh "loot" the French colonial arms caches.

Also the French never used metropolitan troops (regular army troops from France) during the war as they didn't want to admit to fighting a full-scale colonial war. So they used Foreign Legion and Colonial Troops from all over, including Algerians, Moroccans, Senegal, ect.

However by not going all in the French really could only hold the major cities and the Red River Delta region for most of the war. Also in the aftermath of the communist takeover of China the US began to get more and more involved and by 1954 was basically funding most of the war, even "lending" the French aircraft, ships, and all sorts of military equipment, some flown and operated by American "volunteers".

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013



Solaris 2.0 posted:

Also in the aftermath of the communist takeover of China the US began to get more and more involved and by 1954 was basically funding most of the war, even "lending" the French aircraft, ships, and all sorts of military equipment, some flown and operated by American "volunteers".

Ah yes the little green men

RocknRollaAyatollah
Nov 26, 2008



Lipstick Apathy

One of the underreported and untalked about things in the immediate postwar period is that Japanese soldiers were taken on by both the ROC and PLA in China to be used as experts and soldiers. Some of them even took on Japanese names and never repatriated to Japan. No one high up or at a von Braun level expert but people who knew how to use and maintain industrial and electrical technology.

TK-42-1
Oct 30, 2013

looks like we have a bad transmitter



Count Roland posted:

Ah yes the little green men

I know contemporary Russia does this, but does anyone else still put ‘volunteers’ etc into hotspots that aren’t PMCs? I imagine that little loophole absolves the military from blame in some people’s minds.

MikeCrotch
Nov 5, 2011

I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese


Nothingtoseehere posted:

The allied bombing campaign easily could have shifted secondary targets or decided the target had been neutralized - coincidently around the time this plane went up.

In the late war, did the Nazi's switch to distributing their fighter forces around from main airfields to prevent retaliation bombing? Because that's what this sounds like.

The threat to the Luftwaffe by the late war was not so much airfields being bombed but German planes getting hunted down by USAAF escort fighters who conducted fighter sweeps against airfields or chase interceptors back to their home bases. This became a particular problem when it came to training new pilots; in addition to fuel shortages there were limited time windows pilots could do training flights without the risk of getting shot down in the process being unacceptable.

Comstar
Apr 20, 2007

But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Princess Celestia


MikeCrotch posted:

The threat to the Luftwaffe by the late war was not so much airfields being bombed but German planes getting hunted down by USAAF escort fighters who conducted fighter sweeps against airfields or chase interceptors back to their home bases. This became a particular problem when it came to training new pilots; in addition to fuel shortages there were limited time windows pilots could do training flights without the risk of getting shot down in the process being unacceptable.

The RAF was using strategic bombers to drop 10 ton Tallboys on airfields. There's a lot of pictures at the end of Jet Fighters covered in trees and with pine needles laying around inside them.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



I thought the Tallboy was an 'earthquake bomb' intended to collapse underground bunkers. Was it also used as a cratering bomb?

(My understanding is that cratering has never been very effective because of how quickly a runway can be patched, but I could easily be wrong)

SoggyBobcat
Oct 2, 2013


https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1380335409985683458
So did anybody ever write a manual on what to do in this situation?

sullat
Jan 8, 2012


SoggyBobcat posted:

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1380335409985683458
So did anybody ever write a manual on what to do in this situation?

There's probably a war plan-Cthulhu tucked away in some forgotten bookshelf in the Pentagon.

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006

Waiting for his chance

The Lone Badger posted:

(My understanding is that cratering has never been very effective because of how quickly a runway can be patched, but I could easily be wrong)

If you don't hear an idea like that and think, "what if we use a bigger bomb and make the crater bigger?" then you don't get WWII bombing planners.

Wingnut Ninja
Jan 11, 2003

Mostly Harmless


sullat posted:

There's probably a war plan-Cthulhu tucked away in some forgotten bookshelf in the Pentagon.

http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm

I just realized it starts off by placing Nellis AFB in California. Ignore that bit, it's not important.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



Zorak of Michigan posted:

If you don't hear an idea like that and think, "what if we use a bigger bomb and make the crater bigger?" then you don't get WWII bombing planners.

"Hmmm, what if we made it nuclear?"

crazypeltast52
May 5, 2010




Wingnut Ninja posted:

http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm

I just realized it starts off by placing Nellis AFB in California. Ignore that bit, it's not important.

Always read A Colder War.

darthbob88
Oct 13, 2011

YOSPOS


Zorak of Michigan posted:

If you don't hear an idea like that and think, "what if we use a bigger bomb and make the crater bigger?" then you don't get WWII bombing planners.
AFAIK that was why the Tallboy was used for cratering; 500lb bombs make a lot of little craters that can be filled in with standard earth-movers, but a 6 ton bomb that makes a crater 80 feet wide takes a bit longer to clean up.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012


Then you come back and drop bombs on the bulldozers

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



The galaxy-brain move is to bomb the planes.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


The Lone Badger posted:

(My understanding is that cratering has never been very effective because of how quickly a runway can be patched, but I could easily be wrong)

I'm no munitions expert, but runway-killers like JP233 sound like a nightmare to deal with. It's a pair of big "dispenser pods" you mount on a jet. First the system drops thirty two-stage bombs - the first stage is a shaped charge that makes a hole in the runway concrete, creating an underground chamber. Then the second stage explodes within that underground chamber to make a large crater.

Oh, and it also drops 215 landmines while it's at it

It's illegal now

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009

kiss kiss



Pillbug

They're also a nightmare to drop bc you're flying along the runway straight and level for multiple seconds

MikeCrotch
Nov 5, 2011

I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese


aphid_licker posted:

They're also a nightmare to drop bc you're flying along the runway straight and level for multiple seconds

As the RAF found out when multiple Tornados got shot down in the early part of Desert Storm

MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


SoggyBobcat posted:

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1380335409985683458
So did anybody ever write a manual on what to do in this situation?

Pike square, obviously.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
This space intentionally left blank.


Wingnut Ninja posted:

http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm

I just realized it starts off by placing Nellis AFB in California. Ignore that bit, it's not important.

how would you fight against an entity that destructively scans the neuron net of any entity smarter than an insect that wanders within 200 miles of it, and uploads your screaming engram into its collective consciousness

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010


College Slice

Phobophilia posted:

how would you fight against an entity that destructively scans the neuron net of any entity smarter than an insect that wanders within 200 miles of it, and uploads your screaming engram into its collective consciousness

I guess either stay more than 200 miles away or use insects.

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013



Just use a cruise missile.

Wingnut Ninja
Jan 11, 2003

Mostly Harmless


The Lone Badger posted:

The galaxy-brain move is to bomb the planes.

Universe-brain: one bomb, dropped directly on Hitler.

Phobophilia posted:

how would you fight against an entity that destructively scans the neuron net of any entity smarter than an insect that wanders within 200 miles of it, and uploads your screaming engram into its collective consciousness

Send In The Marines!

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008




I mean, as I understand it, the big problem is it doesn't take that long to just make a brand new runway somewhere else nearby if you're really pushed to it. They're just not that complicated.

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009

kiss kiss



Pillbug

A lot of those things were about gaining something approaching air superiority in 400 square km of the Fulda gap for three hours or poo poo like that.

Dance Officer
May 4, 2017

It would be awesome if we could dance!


MikeCrotch posted:

As the RAF found out when multiple Tornados got shot down in the early part of Desert Storm

This is wrong. No Tornados carrying the JP223 were shot down during Desert Storm.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1380469886007316484

Well?

Polyakov
Mar 22, 2012



Dance Officer posted:

This is wrong. No Tornados carrying the JP223 were shot down during Desert Storm.

Thats not quite true, no tornado was shot down while executing the attack phase using JP223, one was lost from a SAM hit after the attack run.

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010



Yes, I am sure there was absolutely nothing else Sweden was doing at the time that kept the Germans from attacking.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


ArchangeI posted:

Yes, I am sure there was absolutely nothing else Sweden was doing at the time that kept the Germans from attacking.

Ore? what ore? we have none now.

Now if you excuse me, I am going to count my bloody money in the corner.

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009

kiss kiss



Pillbug

How thoroughly can you disable an iron ore mine? Flooding, blasting, destroying the infrastructure?

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



It's a slow process, but you can take all the iron ore out and ship it overseas.

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009

kiss kiss



Pillbug

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




aphid_licker posted:

How thoroughly can you disable an iron ore mine? Flooding, blasting, destroying the infrastructure?

Badger probably has the best solution, next best would be killing all the miners. Iron ore is a common, very bulk product.

If you want to disable iron production more broadly it'd probably be easier to go after whatever they're using for heat, either power plants or forests or what have you.

SerCypher
May 9, 2006

Gay baby jail...? What the hell?

I really don't like the sound of that...

Fun Shoe


Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012


aphid_licker posted:

How thoroughly can you disable an iron ore mine? Flooding, blasting, destroying the infrastructure?

There's machinery and infrastructure involved that can be blasted. It's a matter of how long it will be disabled though. Also, iron ore is something easily stockpiled somewhere so hitting the mine itself won't really shut down all production.

Another matter might be, how much do the Allies want to declare war on Sweden by bombing it?

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aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009

kiss kiss



Pillbug

Yeah I was thinking more like the Nazis invade Sweden for whatever reason and the Swedes decide to leave them a little gently caress YOU at Kiruna.

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