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Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

PeterCat posted:


Also, since people are talking about surplus WWII gear, there's a seller on E-bay who apparently hires strippers to model his wares.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-WW2-Arm...98a32%7Ciid%3A2

An attractive person wearing clothes for purposes of selling said clothes is called a "model", not a "stripper".

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Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard
This is "Gay Black Maurice Gamelin", but was there any plausible way for France to hold out in 1940? Barring perfect knowledge of the future I mean. If France had held on even partially the war would have gone wildly, totally unpredictably different but I have to believe that would be a better timeline than the one we got.

That the Nazis were effectively unstoppable in 1940 Europe is kind of gross and sickening, honestly.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Panzeh posted:

The way the French Army was, for the most part, they had to guess fairly correctly for it to work- anything requiring quick countermoves is just not going to work for such a raw force, particularly the infantry divisions. The idea with the Ardennes was that the cavalry cordon could slow such columns enough to give the rest of the army time to respond, but it turns out the cordon offered almost nothing as the troops that were sent had very meager anti-tank weapons, even for 1940. Given the performance of french infantry divisions in 1940, i'm not that hopeful about their odds when they have to rush into positions in the Ardennes, but it certainly wouldn't have been quite what really happened, which was almost wide open daylight once they crossed the Meuse.

That being said, if the French guessed correctly, or simply opted to be willing to fight in France and chose a more cautious approach, there's a chance Germany has trouble with resources as you say.

Thank you. Those are both reasonably plausible. Understandably there weren't (and aren't, really) a lot of good ways to stop massed armor with strong air support, particularly in 1940 where that was basically new especially at that scale. My feelings don't matter of course, some situations really are unsalvageable (IJN/IJA in 1945) but it really sucked to think that France was hosed on day one.

Of course the moment instead of The Fall Of France we get "horrible pitched battles, France is dumpling in men and tanks and planes but they're still in the fight so far" we're on to straight theory crafting, no one has the slightest idea how things would have gone then. It's such a big break with our history, but it's a tiny bit comforting that it could have gone differently.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Ensign Expendable posted:

Myths of Soviet tank building: interbellum tanks

Available for request (others' articles):

:brexit:
Pre-war and early war British tank building


Could I please request the one about British tank building? I watched that newsreel of M3 tank production in Detroit and now I'm fascinated.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Cessna posted:

Ba-349 "Natter."



Does anyone else get a really dark vibe from this aircraft? This has always struck me as this frightening, ugly slapped-together monstrosity that treats humans like bullets. Just shooting them up at the sky and after they finish their attack run gently caress them, their life is forfeit.

There's no overstating how evil the Nazis were, but most of their stuff is more or less comparable to other powers stuff. This plane looks like it was designed by genocidal monsters trying to kill as many people as they could on their way out. I guess it isn't milhist really, but this particular contraption has always made me feel sad and kinda sick inside. To me this is about as depressing as you can get without talking about gas chambers or killing fields. Even nuclear armageddon seems more lighthearted although that makes no sense.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard
I find Sprey and Sparks' analysis pretty convincing. If a time lord offered Heinz Guerdian a hundred Abrams in exchange for a hundred Panthers, he'd surely spit on the offer. His tanks have a similar caliber gun and they weigh the same, but his have more machine gun ammunition and an extra person inside. The advantage clearly goes to the Panther, or if he thinks they're close, surely the cost difference would sway him.

lol

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Fangz posted:

My understanding is that in Vietnam, the bicycles weren't so much ridden as they were pushed along, to allow individuals to carry large loads across longer distances. See e.g.

https://www.vietnamheritage.com.vn/pushing-to-victory/

:eyepop: Brb, starting defense company selling military pack bikes. 300kgs transported by one man over long distances :eyepop:

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Greg12 posted:

Crack That Tank

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EngDMNRoqvE

Share a beer with your friendly, trash-talking tank driving pal as he tells you how to not get killed by his German counterpart

Update the stock footage and switch "rifle grenade" to whatever infantry uses now and it seems good to me.

Stay hidden
Call in artillery and airstrikes, ideally your own tanks as well
Don't panic and run making you a target, sit tight
When they get close enough, open fire to force them to button up
Shoot sight blocks and vision devices to blind the tank
When in range, hit tank with man-portable AT weapons
If you're in a foxhole the tank will just roll right over you
Tracks are a major weak point
Armor is weakest on sides, bottom, and top
Above all do not run, you'll be cut down like grass

Swap out the weapons for what that unit will be packing and I don't see a ton of updates. Maybe more of a caveat that modern armor is very likely to stop anything short of a javelin?

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard
I didn't know that about pivoting over foxholes. How effective is it? I imagine it has to do with the local soil and exactly how the hole is dug. If you're dug into desert caliche (if you managed to dig a hole at all I mean) that's gotta be better than some loose sandy loam or clayey mud. Do tank crews practice it, and if so how well does it seem to work? You've gotta be better off taking chances in a hole than running around though lol

And the tracks are only weaker in comparison, of course. An infantry unit facing a tank charge is in deep poo poo, I think the video is mostly getting across that you're not guaranteed dead meat if you're dug in, have some organic AT weapons, and everyone keeps their wits about them.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Weka posted:

I know kevlar vests have a pretty limited life span. Do you know if they swap out the naval kevlar regularly?

I would have to imagine the useful service life of internal statically-installed kevlar would be much longer, due to not being subject to sweat, uv, deodorant chemicals, repeated flexing, and temperature swings like clothing.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Hannibal Rex posted:



And yesterday, I watched a tremendously entertaining Q&A session between Slavoj Zizek and Stephen Kotkin about the first part of his Stalin trilogy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm7mb9eHg24

Stalin: A Magnificent Journey
Stalin 2: Electric Gulag-oo
Stalin 3: Return Of Hitler

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Nothingtoseehere posted:

There's never a perfect organizational structure. Any structure will have it's benefits and problems - replication can be wasteful, but it can also lead to more innovation and experimentation.

It also means you have that many more chances to get it right. One of the services may end up with a gem that can be shared (Corsair, M-16). You also have a better chance of people taking ownership of the project. Like, would you expect better results from:

-The Central Procurement Directorate needs their quarterly paperwork in quadruplicate where you swear up and down that you're this many % from meeting each of your agreed upon development milestones

-Some ignorant dumbass general who didn't want the plane in the first place insisting on visiting the factory and laying eyes on the airframe you have under construction, and if it's not to his liking he is going to demand answers

Both definitely have their upsides and downsides and obviously real life is a mix, but a bunch of faceless bureaucrats none of which is directly responsible seems like how you end up in Canada's boat.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Lou Takki posted:

Analog fire control computers are incredibly fascinating, there are several examples at the Nauticus museum in Norfolk next to the BB Wisconsin.

What?? I was just there and I was hankering to see an analog FCS. Where were they?

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard
Alexa, target enemy vessel and fire

"Firing on Amy's Waffles"

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

MrYenko posted:

Anyone who actually knows is rightly going to keep their mouth shut. That said, it would be a hell of a design oversight if all a submerged target had to do to evade a torpedo was to surface.

Yeah, it really seems like that would be a suuuuper basic thing to cover. Like a really basic oversight, especially seeing as torpedoes are historically the way for smaller vessels to meaningfully engage larger ones.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Phanatic posted:

How far away was the Saratoga from the Turkish destroyer it blew the poo poo out of with Sea Sparrows? According to the JAG report first missile was fired at 0004:41 and impacted at 0004:58.

I can't make out enough detail on this chart to see what the distance is but perhaps someone here more familiar with the format could tell?


Depends. Like, in the middle of the bridge there's the conning tower, and if you were expecting action you'd be in there and closed up and behind something like 20" of armor. But if you just poofed into existence a mile away from an angry DDG you'd be vulnerable for a little bit .

This article says 3 miles.

God what a clusterfuck. What a moronic cascade of poo poo decisions. "I know! Let's wake up some out-of-the-loop people in the middle of the night so they can run a simulated missile firing (which they've never done) then not tell them it's an exercise, ignore them when they specifically ask if it's a drill, then order them to "arm" and then "fire", while they are sitting at the actual missile control panel pushing buttons live!"

Everything says the actual missile operators weren't punished, I really hope that's true. They had zero expectation of being involved in the exercise, then got woken up in the middle of the night, not told it was a drill despite them asking, then explicitly ordered to fire. What the gently caress else were they supposed to do?

I feel like if I was an officer watching a dude push buttons on a live weapons system, I would not say "arm" and then "fire" unless I actually wanted them to you know, fire.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Cessna posted:

It's called "Oblique," you learn it in boot camp.




Edit: For some reason it's pronounced "ob-like," not "ob-leek." (jarheads are dumb)

I've always heard that Marines are stupid, but I've never truly believed it till now

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard
I thought all fixed-wing aircraft from ww2 on caught their spent brass internally? Maybe that was only the in-wing guns in the fighters.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard
Actually guys, I think human garbage bag has a point- history is full of evidence that people don't want to kill people they hate and fear. If they just had a little more education than they currently have (even though by historical standards most of humanity is astonishingly well-educated and well informed), then war would just stop. Now granted literate populations in history are just as war mongering as others (maybe even more so?). But if they just had (current education) + (some kind of anti-war video) even taking into account that people have already seen tons of anti war videos, then people would just use their logic and critical thinking skills to rise above their base natures and seek an enlightened peace.

Informed people don't do dangerous things. That's why college grads don't smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol or soda, eat fatty food, or fail to get regular health checkups.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard
*a visibly releived 18 year old kid comes back to the 2 bedroom house his stepfather kicked him out of*

You're not going to believe the video they showed us at the recruiting station- there's a less than 50% chance I could die or be seriously harmed in the military! Welp, off to my 60k a year job as a truck driver, which was my other alternative

Uncle Enzo fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jun 15, 2021

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard
Question: The perpetrators of the Richmond, VA bread riots of 1863. You would think logic would dictate that if one foodstuff (like bread) is rare and expensive, you'd switch to another food item. Why didn't the rioters just eat cake instead of rioting???? The violence didn't even solve any problems, why would they do something that was unlikely to yield meaningful improvement to their situation?

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

human garbage bag posted:

Prove that you learned that some people fight for what they believe in even in the face of danger and you won't face danger. If I fight (refuse to show proof), I prove the latter point, but doing so puts me in danger, simultaneously disproving the latter point.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Quoting for posterity. I want this post to reverberate throughout the ages

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard
I cannot admit that I was wrong, you see, because my hypothesis was that my hypothesis was wrong.

My favorite part of this journey was the strong distinction of how showing someone a propaganda video about how war is bad is education, but the clearly ideologically motivated soldiers of the past fought because of conditioning.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

The US sentenced 49 to death for desertion but only this poor guy actually got it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Slovik

I don't think this man should have been executed and I bet it did have something to do with having a criminal record. But

article posted:

The cook took Slovik to an MP, then his company commander, who read the note and urged Slovik to destroy it before he was taken into custody. Slovik refused. He was brought before Lieutenant Colonel Ross Henbest, who again offered him the opportunity to tear up the note, return to his unit, and face no further charges; Slovik again refused. Henbest instructed Slovik to write another note on the back of the first one stating that he fully understood the legal consequences of deliberately incriminating himself, and that it would be used as evidence against him in a court-martial.

Slovik was taken into custody and confined to the division stockade. The division's judge advocate general, Lt. Col. Henry Sommer, offered Slovik a third and final opportunity to rejoin his unit in exchange for the charges against him being dropped. He also offered to transfer Slovik to a different infantry regiment in the division where no one would know of his past and he could start with a "clean slate". Slovik, still convinced that he would face only jail time (which he had already experienced and considered far more tolerable than combat) declined these offers, saying, "I've made up my mind. I'll take my court martial."


But Jesus God if three increasingly higher-ranked officers say "hey man you're confessing to a death sentence. Tear up the note, go back to your unit or even a different one and we'll say no more about it" maybe he should have taken the urgent prompting and taken the way out he was offered.

Maybe it did have to do with his past, but this dude sure as hell had a chance to change his mind. Way way more than anyone else gets that's for drat sure.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

There were a lot of combat photographers, usually from news outlets in WWII. Robert Capa famously landed in the first wave on Omaha Beach and took a bunch of pictures. And there are far more now, the Army has a specific MOS (25V) for combat photography as they have realized the value of manufacturing your own propaganda.

Hell, in Seveneves they realize the public perception of victory is the *real victory*, so the PR people are in command of the battle and conduct the camera crews as primary combat personnel, livestreaming the whole thing. Positions and tactics are chosen for how they look on screen and match the overall narrative of the conflict.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard
"Honey I love you. I want to take our relationship to the next level. There is something I want to try. I have... needs."

*eyes gleaming* "What is it? I'm probably game"

*pulls out manila folder overflowing with tracing paper entitled "Grand Armee Lieutenant Parade Blouse"*

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Raenir Salazar posted:

I just saw a cursed thing recently which was an argument where a wehraboo was arguing the 1944 German army could defeat the 1991 US Army.

They couldn't even beat the 1944 US Army!

I learned a lot though about how a hypothetical Gulf War army could crush the Heer like eggs.

The argument apparently was originally a much more interesting thought experiment that apparently the Iraqi Army during the first gulf war was so bad that the 1944 German army despite obsolete equipment could've hypothetically defeated them but then it morphed into something cursed from there.

It's amusing to me because 1944 Germany vs 1991 Iraq is basically kinda the premise to Harry Turtledove's World War series.

Honestly though I say go for it. Let's transport the 1991 US Army back to any nazi battle line in 1944 and see who comes out on top. Let's do that.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Mycroft Holmes posted:

quite frankly, i'm more interested in 1991 Iraq vs 1944 Wehrmacht.

I think the outcome would be strongly affected by the nazi plans for Iraq. I don't know what Iraqis in 1991 felt about nazis but I think that's critical in a hypothetical matchup. If it's "ok this german dude will be in charge, also he doesn't think much of jews" that's one level of resistance. If it's "these racist self-proclaimed supermen are going to pillage and rape your country, followed by mass starvation and a genocide of undesirables" then that army is going to fight like hell.

The 1991 Iraqis were famously uninterested in fighting (in a territorial war of aggression) particularly after a devastating precision bombing campaign. Take the bombing off the table (I would expect 1991 Iraq's IADS to eat the luftwaffe alive) and put them as the only thing standing between their country and a skull-wearing band of monsters and I bet they put up a fight worth writing songs about.

Also in the hypothetical where hitlerites are coming through a portal, Iraq would have 0 trouble acquiring foreign arms. Ammunition and spare parts would be a hilarious non-issue. Saddam was a reasonably intelligent man, a situation like that would be a gift from god to his global approval rating and I bet he'd have jumped at the chance to be The Man Who Killed Hitler.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Fangz posted:

gently caress me, communism is awesome

They're not called tankies for nothing

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

:chanpop:

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Phanatic posted:

Including protection from the press.



(Image searching that fed me an article on that whole debacle which I'd never seen before:) https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2013/11/dukakis-and-the-tank-099119/

I read (past tense) a lot of lovely politics books from the 90's and every one of them brought up this photo at every opportunity. How stupid and childish he looked! Like he was playing dress-up! How silly!

When I finally saw the picture though I don't get it and never have. It's a tanker's helmet? That's how it looks? It's a piece of setting-appropriate PPE, being worn properly? The photo is credited with sinking his campaign. But it's the same helmet that anyone manning that position would wear. Does that picture look silly to you, fellow posters? To me it looks a little silly, but no more silly than anyone wearing a large helmet does.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Nessus posted:

Yeah, I did hear some about the sugar plantations, and indeed, :catstare:

I find really interesting the idea that Nazi slave camps weren't historically unique, and that really just plain ol' capitalism was plenty of reason. Is there research putting them side-by-side that is reasonably accessible? I'm not going to be able to read a whole book about people being ground into chowder but are there journal articles maybe?

gently caress now I'm wondering how many other places and times in history were that awful and extractive of human suffering. There's probably more and in the US to boot. What was the worst (defined as life expectancy) place or type of place to be a slave in the US (1619 - 1940's)? I'd feel bad for asking but ignoring the suffering of slavery is the historical norm and gently caress that.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Cessna posted:

What's the difference between war and assassination and kanly?

(Takes spice hit)

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

aphid_licker posted:

They don't have to worry about no fuel tank / engine fire tho

Overall on the balance I'd give the glider even odds to win in a dogfight

In a good upwind they can just outlast the fighter's fuel and then bounce em as they land.

Another factor is the glider is nearly silent- the fighters wouldn't hear them coming, giving them the element of surprise. When you take into account not having to worry about fuel levels and having a much simpler cockpit allowing for much better situational awareness it's no surprise they did so well.

These advantages all added up to a potent air-to-air contender. Col. Ernst Gluger (not sure if I have that spelled right) was the top glider ace of the war- 11 victories against Spitfires and Hurricanes is nothing to sneeze at. Apparently having to do less work flying the plane led to him taking Spit pilots unawares time and again- they were too busy managing that 5,000 moving part Merlin to see him sneaking up.

Having to make less engines was really attractive to resource-starved Germany, not as useful for the allies though. It was only the need for highly trained pilots that kept the combat glider from seeing more widespread use.

Uncle Enzo fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Oct 20, 2021

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Remulak posted:

It's NUTS to me that gliders were used for troop drops at all, seems like the worst of all possible worlds,. You're packed like sardines in an unarmored wooden plane without power and no way to return, and if your planned LZ is hot how the hell do you get to another place that's flat enough? At least with a parachute drop you're probably in the right place.

When you factor in how hard they are to shoot down, it makes total sense really. They're just too slow to hit. The lack of fuel or munitions means even if an enemy fighter did get in a lucky shot the bullets would pass harmlessly through, like shooting at smoke.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard
At least one poster has said one of the British missteps was relating a message in poor written French.

I just nodded, it made perfect sense to me, having lived in France. Then I thought about other nations where "oh this really important communique was written poorly" was taken as an insult.

????

There's instances where poor communications or phrasing led to problems or unnecessary bloodshed, but that's out of misunderstanding, not pride at them insulting your noble language.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

SlothfulCobra posted:

Where does poop go on an aircraft carrier?

Deep into the bowels of the ship

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

zoux posted:

Yeah but this guy knew nothing.

I'm sorry, what?

The thing about the patriot that gets me is that shortly before the film came out, Mel Gibson did an episode of the Simpsons where they remake "Mr Smith Goes to Washington" and Homer's buffoonish input turns the climax into a action movie cliche. Exemplifying that cinematic excess is a part where Mel impales a man on a flag, killing him - a hilariously exaggerated spoof of course. That episode came out in '99

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8imsr2WmEg

One year later

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kbpd34Vwow

:nallears:

THANK YOU

I spotted this connection at the time and I thought it was uncanny.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

White Coke posted:

Give him the secret of uniforms that look good but aren’t ridiculously labor intensive.

The gently caress is wrong with you? You want the man to waste as much money, materials and labor hours as possible on useless poo poo.

Obviously you'd show him Pacific Rim and tell him it was a documentary, that the nation that first invented Jaegers dominated the planet. Then sit back and watch them try to build a mecha with 40's technology.

Or show a CG mockup of the landkreuzer and tell him the communists took the unfinished prototype, built it, and conquered germany. If only it had received the time and resources it deserved...

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Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Cessna posted:

Sort of, yes.

If it was just an insurgency or rebellion, it was a matter of "closing the ports." But once you formally declare war and impose a blockade you thereby recognize the South as a sovereign entity. Sec. of the Navy Wells said:

"The very fact of the blockade would raise the insurgents to the level of belligerents - a concession to the Confederate organization admitting it to be a quasi government."

They probably should have done this. Wasn't reconstruction severely hampered by the fact that technically, legally speaking, the confederacy never existed? And then reconstruction failing led to the following 1.5 century+ of racial and economic problems since.

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