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Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Acebuckeye13 posted:

In fairness US self-propelled* TDs actually did fairly well and the M18 stands out in particular in punching well above its weight, but that success mainly came from training and low-level unit tactics rather than the actual doctrine.

*e: edit to emphasize the self-propelled TDs, as the towed guns were hot garbage that mainly served to get their crews killed

Towed anti-tank guns used by all nations quickly hit the point where a gun that could knock out any enemy tank was simply too heavy to push around the battlefield by hand. The solution to this was either to keep lighter guns that were still okay against most tanks (ZIS-3, 6-pounder) or go hog wild and hope there are enough tractors available to bail you out when you have to relocate (Pak 43). This led to some strange solutions after the war, like the Soviet gun with a motorcycle engine that could drive on its own, albeit very slowly and not very far.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

How did the allies win world war 2 on the ground when faced with such superior german vehicles and discipline :confused:

Very carefully

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Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Oh look, I can change the thread title.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
I know that getting into a squabble over dumb poo poo is extremely on brand for military history, but let's not do it in the present.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

White Coke posted:

Can someone explain the British 77mm HV gun to me? I've read the wikipedia article about it several times but I can't wrap my head around it.

The British had (still have?) strange ideas about tank guns. In 1941 their bets were all on relatively small caliber guns that fired high velocity solid shot, making them very good at penetrating lots of armour but not really good at anything else. These tanks were supported by close support tanks with howitzers firing smoke and occasionally HE. In 1942 when Lee/Grant and later Sherman tanks saw battle, it turned out that a general purpose 75 mm gun was much more useful since any given tank could react to any threat it encountered rather than having a specialized tank for each task.

It was possible to make a 75 mm gun that worked with the 6-pounder gun mount to retrofit existing tanks quickly, but the decreased armour penetration was an issue, especially when a new type of German tank with thick armour was discovered that could not be penetrated through the front with the 75 mm gun while the 6-pounder could do it. The solution was to develop a higher velocity 75 mm gun. Work on the Vickers 75 mm HV continued until early 1944, by which time the 76 mm 17-pounder showed very good results against new German tanks. In late 1943 the 17-pounder was also fitted into the M10 to make the Achilles Ic and Sherman to make the Sherman Vc (more commonly known as the Firefly). There was a drawback: the 17-pounder was massive. The breech was bulky and the long recoil meant that the turret had to be large to accommodate it, which is why the Firefly has a box sticking out the back where the radio had to be moved. Even with the expanded turret and the Sherman's massive turret ring the long 17-pounder ammunition was difficult to load.

The solution was to dial the gun back a bit. A shortened 17-pounder barrel was mated with the 75 mm HV breech to create a high velocity 76 mm gun that was capable of fighting any known enemy tank and yet fit in a turret of reasonable size. The ammunition was also more reasonably sized, since a shorter barrel means you don't need as much propellant anymore. The gun was called 77 mm so people wouldn't try to put 17-pounder ammo into it or vice versa.

The 77 mm gun was in a kind of weird place since it only fit into the new A34 Cruiser (Comet IA). It was too big to put into existing Churchill and Cromwell tanks, and the British wanted their heavier tanks to have a full 17-pounder anyway (Black Prince and Centurion had them), later on it turned out that there were even heavier tanks popping up like the Tiger II and the IS-3, so even the 17-pounder was no longer enough and it was quickly replaced with the 20-pounder after the war. There wasn't really a place for the 77 mm gun anymore. The 75 mm guns were better at slinging HE and its AP performance wasn't enough to fight emerging threats, so it didn't see any use after the Comet.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

razak posted:

Stop trying to jam the wrong ammo in there!

This is the same reason the US ended up with a 106mm M40 recoilless rifle. They needed a way to make it real clear that it was different from the 105mm M27 ammo.

There was a lot of confusion over new American 90 mm guns arriving in Europe, namely the T26E4 "helpfully" had its sight and ammo swapped for those from a regular 90 mm M3 gun.

Letmebefrank posted:

At least Finnish war stories have a stereotype of makhorka smell indicating that the Soviets are somewhere close. No idea what kind of ersatz the Finns were smoking. So it was not only the Germans.

I've heard this about regular cigarettes too, I think it's one of those myths like a ".50 cal will rip your arm off if it passes close to you" that has little basis in reality and was so distorted by time that it's hard to tell where it came from originally.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
This week's article is one of mine and is a pretty specialist topic: Sherman tank mobility in mud

Queue: M4A3E2 Jumbo Sherman, M4A2 Sherman in the Red Army, T-54, T-44 prototypes, T-44 prototypes second round, T-44 production, Soviet HEAT anti-tank grenades, T-34-85M, Myths of Soviet tank building: interbellum tanks, Light Tank M24, German anti-tank rifles, PT-76 modernizations, ISU-122 front line impressions, German additional tank protection (zimmerit, schurzen, track links), Winter and swamp tracks, Paper light tank destroyers, Allied intel on the Maus , Summary of French interbellum tank development, Medium Tank T20, Medium Tank T23, Myths of Soviet tank building, GMC M10, Tiger II predecessors, Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.H-J,IS-6, SU-101/SU-102/Uralmash-1, Centurion Mk.I, SU-100 front line impressions, IS-2 front line impressions, Myths of Soviet tank building: early Great Patriotic War, Influence of the T-34 on German tank building, Medium Tank T25, Heavy Tank T26/T26E1/T26E3, Career of Harry Knox, GMC M36, Geschützwagen Tiger für 17cm K72 (Sf), Early Early Soviet tank development (MS-1, AN Teplokhod), Career of Semyon Aleksandrovich Ginzburg, AT-1, Object 140, SU-76 frontline impressions, Creation of the IS-3, IS-6, SU-5, Myths of Soviet tank building: 1943-44, IS-2 post-war modifications, Myths of Soviet tank building: end of the Great Patriotic War, Medium Tank T6, RPG-1, Lahti L-39, T-80 T-62 T-64 T-72A comparative trials, American tank building plans post-war, German tanks for 1946, HMC M7 Priest, GMC M12, GMC M40/M43, ISU-152, AMR 35 ZT, Soviet post-war tank building plans, T-100Y and SU-14-1, Object 430, Pz.Kpfw.35(t), T-60 tanks in combat, SU-76M modernizations, Panhard 178

Available for request (others' articles):

:ussr:
Shashmurin's career
BT-7M/A-8 trials
Voroshilovets tractor trials
T-55 underwater driving equipment NEW

:911:
Light Tank T37
Light Tank T41
Medium Tank M46
Modernization of the M48 to the M60 standard

:brexit:
Pre-war and early war British tank building NEW

:godwin:
15 cm sFH 13/1 (Sf)
Oerlikon and Solothurn anti-tank rifles
German tank building trends at the end of WW2
Pz.Kpfw.III/IV
Evolution of German tank observation devices

:eurovision:
43M Zrínyi NEW

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

GotLag posted:

If a nuke is just a really big, really expensive bomb that's never been tested in combat and isn't perceived by the world at large as being a war-ender, does anyone go to the trouble and expense of building a lot of them, especially after the big war has just finished?

The tank wasn't a WWI ender either, and tanks went from being unwieldy hand-assembled things into streamlined war machines produced by the thousand during peace time. There is no guarantee that nuclear weapons would have quietly died after WWII if they weren't used on Japan.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Nebakenezzer posted:

I thought the Panther had good ground pressure, at least, so it surprises me it wasn't terribly good in mud. Was it a traction problem?

Spoiler:The panther's transmission broke during the trials :lol:

Traction was the worst among all tanks the British tested, with the possible exception of the Tiger which was rated as "very poor" with no other commentary.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Nebakenezzer posted:

I was going through the old cold war thread looking for posts to highlight, and Cyrano wrote this in 2012 and I never really forgot about it because of his characteriztion of Hermann Goering:

Don't forget the next logical step: the now ground-based paratroopers got tanks to form the Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1. Hermann Göring, which (unlike some other nations) did not even nominally have any tanks that could be air dropped, just ordinary tanks but under an Air Force brand. This largely pointless unit was upgraded to a whole Panzerkorps before the end of the war because of course it did.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

are you seriously trying to argue that a tank production run is at all analogous to a rifle production run in terms of scale or magnitude?

i'm not real familiar with why more jumbos weren't produced but i suspect the root causes were somewhat different than "make a new better version"

The Jumbo was a small scale run from the start, it was supposed to be a specialized assault vehicle so nobody thought there would be a need for a lot of them. By the time they first saw battle and turned out to be incredibly useful in a wide variety of cases, production was long over with no plans to start it up again. The solution instead was to build the T26E5 assault tank based on the Pershing, but the war ended and it was never mass produced.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
The SOMUA S 35 was an incredibly advanced tank for its time, but was hampered by strange French tank design conventions like one-man turrets.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Xiahou Dun posted:

Also just hours later, "No."

Followed by, "This is dumb. And also no."

Please god never talk to me about translation ever again. You were so ridiculous that I circled back to scold you.

Just stay in your lane.

If you see something wrong with what he wrote, you can say what it is. Saying "no you're wrong" is not a very productive way to have a conversation, being a dick about it doubly so.

This isn't the first time I've seen unnecessary hostility from you, so consider this a final warning before I start taking measures.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
Forgot to do one of these last week, so you get two articles today!

M4A2 in Soviet service

Sherman Jumbo


Queue: T-54, T-44 prototypes, T-44 prototypes second round, T-44 production, Soviet HEAT anti-tank grenades, T-34-85M, Myths of Soviet tank building: interbellum tanks, Light Tank M24, German anti-tank rifles, PT-76 modernizations, ISU-122 front line impressions, German additional tank protection (zimmerit, schurzen, track links), Winter and swamp tracks, Paper light tank destroyers, Allied intel on the Maus , Summary of French interbellum tank development, Medium Tank T20, Medium Tank T23, Myths of Soviet tank building, GMC M10, Tiger II predecessors, Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.H-J,IS-6, SU-101/SU-102/Uralmash-1, Centurion Mk.I, SU-100 front line impressions, IS-2 front line impressions, Myths of Soviet tank building: early Great Patriotic War, Influence of the T-34 on German tank building, Medium Tank T25, Heavy Tank T26/T26E1/T26E3, Career of Harry Knox, GMC M36, Geschützwagen Tiger für 17cm K72 (Sf), Early Early Soviet tank development (MS-1, AN Teplokhod), Career of Semyon Aleksandrovich Ginzburg, AT-1, Object 140, SU-76 frontline impressions, Creation of the IS-3, IS-6, SU-5, Myths of Soviet tank building: 1943-44, IS-2 post-war modifications, Myths of Soviet tank building: end of the Great Patriotic War, Medium Tank T6, RPG-1, Lahti L-39, T-80 T-62 T-64 T-72A comparative trials, American tank building plans post-war, German tanks for 1946, HMC M7 Priest, GMC M12, GMC M40/M43, ISU-152, AMR 35 ZT, Soviet post-war tank building plans, T-100Y and SU-14-1, Object 430, Pz.Kpfw.35(t), T-60 tanks in combat, SU-76M modernizations, Panhard 178

Available for request (others' articles):

:ussr:
Shashmurin's career
BT-7M/A-8 trials
Voroshilovets tractor trials
T-55 underwater driving equipment

:911:
Light Tank T37
Light Tank T41
Medium Tank M46
Modernization of the M48 to the M60 standard

:brexit:
Pre-war and early war British tank building

:godwin:
15 cm sFH 13/1 (Sf)
Oerlikon and Solothurn anti-tank rifles
German tank building trends at the end of WW2
Pz.Kpfw.III/IV
Evolution of German tank observation devices

:eurovision:
43M Zrínyi

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Comstar posted:

So...This was just announced for pre-order.

[spoiler]
2400 figures (3000 for the pre-order and 15 cannons). 15 Regiments each side.

So....I am now in need of what books to read to how to fight like it's the American Civil War at the regimental level. Any recommendations?

Don't hotlink images.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Nothingtoseehere posted:

With black powder cannons having that much energy... how modern a tank would you need to be able to shrug off a direct hit from a black powder cannon - say a Napoleonic one?

Obviously a modern tank would ignore it, but would a T-34? A sherman? A Renault FT?

Depends on the quality of the shot, if it's just cast iron it will probably shatter on impact and not do much damage to anything with more than bulletproof armour.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

White Coke posted:

Why do tanks have smoothbore guns?


"Humans have a preset kill limit..."

There are several reasons. One as someone already pointed out is wear. The higher pressure, the faster the rifling wears out. Modern ammunition is fired at very high velocity and therefore very high pressure, and that's very hard on the rifling.

Two is that HEAT jets decrease in effectiveness greatly if the projectile is spinning. There are two ways to go about correcting this, one is to make a rotating sleeve that engages with the rifling while the warhead stays still, the other is to just go smoothbore and stabilize the projectile with fins. Turns out fins are pretty good for stabilization, just as good as rifling, so kinetic penetrators also became finned.

Someone else already mentioned missiles, you can put them in a special launcher on top of the tank, or just shove them down the barrel and not have to make another hole in your tank.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
Don't turn events from over a century ago into personal attacks, thanks

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

bewbies posted:

reading about the Battle of Okinawa this weekend it seems like the 47 mm anti-tank guns took a ferocious toll on late war shermans.

did those things punch way above their weight performance wise somehow? it seems like they were a ways behind behind contemporary stuff in the ETO but they sure did the job there.

The Sherman really didn't have much side armour, so 47 mm was plenty to shoot it from an ambush.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
Turns out I'm bad at keeping track of what week this is, have another double:

T-54

T-44 production

Queue: Soviet HEAT anti-tank grenades, T-34-85M, Myths of Soviet tank building: interbellum tanks, Light Tank M24, German anti-tank rifles, PT-76 modernizations, ISU-122 front line impressions, German additional tank protection (zimmerit, schurzen, track links), Winter and swamp tracks, Paper light tank destroyers, Allied intel on the Maus , Summary of French interbellum tank development, Medium Tank T20, Medium Tank T23, Myths of Soviet tank building, GMC M10, Tiger II predecessors, Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.H-J,IS-6, SU-101/SU-102/Uralmash-1, Centurion Mk.I, SU-100 front line impressions, IS-2 front line impressions, Myths of Soviet tank building: early Great Patriotic War, Influence of the T-34 on German tank building, Medium Tank T25, Heavy Tank T26/T26E1/T26E3, Career of Harry Knox, GMC M36, Geschützwagen Tiger für 17cm K72 (Sf), Early Early Soviet tank development (MS-1, AN Teplokhod), Career of Semyon Aleksandrovich Ginzburg, AT-1, Object 140, SU-76 frontline impressions, Creation of the IS-3, IS-6, SU-5, Myths of Soviet tank building: 1943-44, IS-2 post-war modifications, Myths of Soviet tank building: end of the Great Patriotic War, Medium Tank T6, RPG-1, Lahti L-39, T-80 T-62 T-64 T-72A comparative trials, American tank building plans post-war, German tanks for 1946, HMC M7 Priest, GMC M12, GMC M40/M43, ISU-152, AMR 35 ZT, Soviet post-war tank building plans, T-100Y and SU-14-1, Object 430, Pz.Kpfw.35(t), T-60 tanks in combat, SU-76M modernizations, Panhard 178, 15 cm sFH 13/1 (Sf), 43M Zrínyi

Available for request (others' articles):

:ussr:
Shashmurin's career
BT-7M/A-8 trials
Voroshilovets tractor trials
T-55 underwater driving equipment

:911:
Light Tank T37
Light Tank T41
Medium Tank M46
Modernization of the M48 to the M60 standard

:brexit:
Pre-war and early war British tank building

:godwin:
Oerlikon and Solothurn anti-tank rifles
German tank building trends at the end of WW2
Pz.Kpfw.III/IV
Evolution of German tank observation devices

Ensign Expendable fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Jan 5, 2021

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

PeterCat posted:

Also, the tank commander communicated with the driver by putting his foot between the driver's shoulder blades and pressing harder to go faster.

This was very common even in tanks with an intercom. Communicating with touch/gestures is faster when you're in an experienced crew.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
Soviet HEAT grenades

Queue: T-34-85M, Myths of Soviet tank building: interbellum tanks, Light Tank M24, German anti-tank rifles, PT-76 modernizations, ISU-122 front line impressions, German additional tank protection (zimmerit, schurzen, track links), Winter and swamp tracks, Paper light tank destroyers, Allied intel on the Maus , Summary of French interbellum tank development, Medium Tank T20, Medium Tank T23, Myths of Soviet tank building, GMC M10, Tiger II predecessors, Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.H-J,IS-6, SU-101/SU-102/Uralmash-1, Centurion Mk.I, SU-100 front line impressions, IS-2 front line impressions, Myths of Soviet tank building: early Great Patriotic War, Influence of the T-34 on German tank building, Medium Tank T25, Heavy Tank T26/T26E1/T26E3, Career of Harry Knox, GMC M36, Geschützwagen Tiger für 17cm K72 (Sf), Early Early Soviet tank development (MS-1, AN Teplokhod), Career of Semyon Aleksandrovich Ginzburg, AT-1, Object 140, SU-76 frontline impressions, Creation of the IS-3, IS-6, SU-5, Myths of Soviet tank building: 1943-44, IS-2 post-war modifications, Myths of Soviet tank building: end of the Great Patriotic War, Medium Tank T6, RPG-1, Lahti L-39, T-80 T-62 T-64 T-72A comparative trials, American tank building plans post-war, German tanks for 1946, HMC M7 Priest, GMC M12, GMC M40/M43, ISU-152, AMR 35 ZT, Soviet post-war tank building plans, T-100Y and SU-14-1, Object 430, Pz.Kpfw.35(t), T-60 tanks in combat, SU-76M modernizations, Panhard 178, 15 cm sFH 13/1 (Sf), 43M Zrínyi

Available for request (others' articles):

:ussr:
Shashmurin's career
BT-7M/A-8 trials
Voroshilovets tractor trials
T-55 underwater driving equipment

:911:
Light Tank T37
Light Tank T41
Medium Tank M46
Modernization of the M48 to the M60 standard

:brexit:
Pre-war and early war British tank building

:godwin:
Oerlikon and Solothurn anti-tank rifles
German tank building trends at the end of WW2
Pz.Kpfw.III/IV
Evolution of German tank observation devices
E-50 and E-75 development NEW

Ensign Expendable fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Jan 11, 2021

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Tias posted:

Just played Steel Panthers where I could purchase a stand-alone "Anti-Tank platoon" of 8 pairs of anti-tank men with PTRD rifles, and it had me wondering, how did the Red Army in WW2 organize their anti-tank groups? I know the rifles were supplemented with men hurling molotovs, but how and where were these units organized in relation to the normal infantry squads and platoons?

Tank destroyer teams with Molotov cocktails were separate from antitank rifle squads. I did a video on the former some time ago, Military History Visualized had one on antitank rifles that I was involved with.

https://youtu.be/3cYwF0nIjks

https://youtu.be/vTusD4OiQZU

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

MrYenko posted:

Wait, did the red army formally use Molotov cocktails as antitank weapons? I always figured they were a field-expedient kind of thing.

Nope, they were mass produced at factories and there were manuals and everything.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
T-34-85M

Queue: Myths of Soviet tank building: interbellum tanks, Light Tank M24, German anti-tank rifles, PT-76 modernizations, ISU-122 front line impressions, German additional tank protection (zimmerit, schurzen, track links), Winter and swamp tracks, Paper light tank destroyers, Allied intel on the Maus , Summary of French interbellum tank development, Medium Tank T20, Medium Tank T23, Myths of Soviet tank building, GMC M10, Tiger II predecessors, Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.H-J,IS-6, SU-101/SU-102/Uralmash-1, Centurion Mk.I, SU-100 front line impressions, IS-2 front line impressions, Myths of Soviet tank building: early Great Patriotic War, Influence of the T-34 on German tank building, Medium Tank T25, Heavy Tank T26/T26E1/T26E3, Career of Harry Knox, GMC M36, Geschützwagen Tiger für 17cm K72 (Sf), Early Early Soviet tank development (MS-1, AN Teplokhod), Career of Semyon Aleksandrovich Ginzburg, AT-1, Object 140, SU-76 frontline impressions, Creation of the IS-3, IS-6, SU-5, Myths of Soviet tank building: 1943-44, IS-2 post-war modifications, Myths of Soviet tank building: end of the Great Patriotic War, Medium Tank T6, RPG-1, Lahti L-39, T-80 T-62 T-64 T-72A comparative trials, American tank building plans post-war, German tanks for 1946, HMC M7 Priest, GMC M12, GMC M40/M43, ISU-152, AMR 35 ZT, Soviet post-war tank building plans, T-100Y and SU-14-1, Object 430, Pz.Kpfw.35(t), T-60 tanks in combat, SU-76M modernizations, Panhard 178, 15 cm sFH 13/1 (Sf), 43M Zrínyi

Available for request (others' articles):

:ussr:
Shashmurin's career
BT-7M/A-8 trials
Voroshilovets tractor trials
T-55 underwater driving equipment

:911:
Light Tank T37
Light Tank T41
Medium Tank M46
Modernization of the M48 to the M60 standard

:brexit:
Pre-war and early war British tank building

:godwin:
Oerlikon and Solothurn anti-tank rifles
German tank building trends at the end of WW2
Pz.Kpfw.III/IV
Evolution of German tank observation devices
E-50 and E-75 development

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

goatsestretchgoals posted:

What does the WW2 Soviet version of a Molotov cocktail look like? My mental picture of one looks like a bottle of gasoline/high content alcohol with a flaming rag sticking out of the top.

I cover the different types here: http://www.tankarchives.ca/2017/11/molotov-cocktails.html

There are types that are a bottle of flammable liquid (not gasoline) with a source of ignition (match or mechanical device) tied to the side. There is a more advanced variant that is simply fluid that ignites when it touches air. More convenient for the thrower, but absolute hell to transport and a danger to modern battlefield archeologists since there are intact bottles still in the ground.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

The Lone Badger posted:

Why did they issue each soldier with a mix of fuel types (one KS and two #1 or #3)?

I never read any reason for this, unfortunately.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Tulip posted:

The PRC is extremely paranoid about geographic data, to the extent that official maps of the PRC are straightforwardly wrong, and possessing maps or other geographic data without the right approvals carries hefty fines (that are actually pursued). Restricting civilian flight lanes feels like a reasonable extension/enforcement of that law (regardless of how you feel about the law itself).

This isn't something particularly secretive, there's even a nice little wikipedia page about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_data_in_China

I didn't know about this until I started mapping the path of the 6th Guards Tank Army through Manchuria for my book. Pretty much as soon as you get to the Greater Khingan the old maps and new ones cease to have anything in common.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

bewbies posted:

do you ever watch a thing, and afterwards, wonder what the gently caress was that i just watched

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7F5tef1ACE

is one of those things

T-34 was basically World of Tanks: The Movie. I still haven't seen it, maybe I can do a video series on awful Russian war movies.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Yooper posted:

I'm looking to read about the Soviet tank design process pre-WW2. Can anyone recommend a good book?

In English? That's a pretty tough one. It's not a particularly popular topic even with Russian historians, and precious little has been translated. What era/vehicle are you looking for specifically?

My book covers the T-34, following how the lessons of the Spanish Civil War led to the transformation of the BT-7 into the A-20 and later the T-34, but the story of how it got there in the first place is pretty sparse. This of course is only a small subset of tank development that was happening at the time.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Yooper posted:

Mostly looking for the design process. How did they go from "Hey, we need a tank!" in the early 20's and end up with successful tanks like the T-34 and total weirdo stuff like the T-35. Did Stalin drive the design process? Was it design by committee? Did the factories themselves design them, or was it a design bureau?

There was a number of design bureaus. The first design group was set up way back in the 1920s, by the mid 1930s pretty much any factory building tanks had their own design bureau on hand. Stalin wasn't involved in anything directly except at the very highest level meetings where general requirements were set.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Yooper posted:

Is there anything (in English) about the Design Bureaus themselves? Even how the factories functioned would be really interesting.

There are some articles on the MS-1 that I haven't gotten around to translating yet that go over the work of the early design bureaus. I have a few articles that shed some light on the design process already up. These are both failed designs but they had a lot of promise and some big names were involved with them.

https://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2019/09/the-golden-standard.html
https://www.tankarchives.ca/2020/07/dead-end-on-wheels.html

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
Myths of Soviet tank building: interbellum tanks

Queue: Light Tank M24, German anti-tank rifles, PT-76 modernizations, ISU-122 front line impressions, German additional tank protection (zimmerit, schurzen, track links), Winter and swamp tracks, Paper light tank destroyers, Allied intel on the Maus , Summary of French interbellum tank development, Medium Tank T20, Medium Tank T23, Myths of Soviet tank building, GMC M10, Tiger II predecessors, Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.H-J,IS-6, SU-101/SU-102/Uralmash-1, Centurion Mk.I, SU-100 front line impressions, IS-2 front line impressions, Myths of Soviet tank building: early Great Patriotic War, Influence of the T-34 on German tank building, Medium Tank T25, Heavy Tank T26/T26E1/T26E3, Career of Harry Knox, GMC M36, Geschützwagen Tiger für 17cm K72 (Sf), Early Early Soviet tank development (MS-1, AN Teplokhod), Career of Semyon Aleksandrovich Ginzburg, AT-1, Object 140, SU-76 frontline impressions, Creation of the IS-3, IS-6, SU-5, Myths of Soviet tank building: 1943-44, IS-2 post-war modifications, Myths of Soviet tank building: end of the Great Patriotic War, Medium Tank T6, RPG-1, Lahti L-39, T-80 T-62 T-64 T-72A comparative trials, American tank building plans post-war, German tanks for 1946, HMC M7 Priest, GMC M12, GMC M40/M43, ISU-152, AMR 35 ZT, Soviet post-war tank building plans, T-100Y and SU-14-1, Object 430, Pz.Kpfw.35(t), T-60 tanks in combat, SU-76M modernizations, Panhard 178, 15 cm sFH 13/1 (Sf), 43M Zrínyi, Medium Tank M46, Modernization of the M48 to the M60 standard, German tank building trends at the end of WW2, Pz.Kpfw.III/IV, E-50 and E-75 development, Pre-war and early war British tank building,

Available for request (others' articles):

:ussr:
Shashmurin's career
BT-7M/A-8 trials
Voroshilovets tractor trials
T-55 underwater driving equipment

:911:
Light Tank T37
Light Tank T41

:godwin:
Oerlikon and Solothurn anti-tank rifles
Evolution of German tank observation devices

Ensign Expendable fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jan 25, 2021

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
Added! As a bonus: my article on British trials of the Pz.Kpfw.IV is out today: https://warspot.net/279-second-fiddle

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Rodrigo Diaz posted:

I'm also published, and very handsome.

Same, and people keep confusing me for a real historian instead of just some guy who makes Nazis mad on Twitter.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
Light Tank M24

Queue: German anti-tank rifles, PT-76 modernizations, ISU-122 front line impressions, German additional tank protection (zimmerit, schurzen, track links), Winter and swamp tracks, Paper light tank destroyers, Allied intel on the Maus , Summary of French interbellum tank development, Medium Tank T20, Medium Tank T23, Myths of Soviet tank building, GMC M10, Tiger II predecessors, Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.H-J,IS-6, SU-101/SU-102/Uralmash-1, Centurion Mk.I, SU-100 front line impressions, IS-2 front line impressions, Myths of Soviet tank building: early Great Patriotic War, Influence of the T-34 on German tank building, Medium Tank T25, Heavy Tank T26/T26E1/T26E3, Career of Harry Knox, GMC M36, Geschützwagen Tiger für 17cm K72 (Sf), Early Early Soviet tank development (MS-1, AN Teplokhod), Career of Semyon Aleksandrovich Ginzburg, AT-1, Object 140, SU-76 frontline impressions, Creation of the IS-3, IS-6, SU-5, Myths of Soviet tank building: 1943-44, IS-2 post-war modifications, Myths of Soviet tank building: end of the Great Patriotic War, Medium Tank T6, RPG-1, Lahti L-39, T-80 T-62 T-64 T-72A comparative trials, American tank building plans post-war, German tanks for 1946, HMC M7 Priest, GMC M12, GMC M40/M43, ISU-152, AMR 35 ZT, Soviet post-war tank building plans, T-100Y and SU-14-1, Object 430, Pz.Kpfw.35(t), T-60 tanks in combat, SU-76M modernizations, Panhard 178, 15 cm sFH 13/1 (Sf), 43M Zrínyi, Medium Tank M46, Modernization of the M48 to the M60 standard, German tank building trends at the end of WW2, Pz.Kpfw.III/IV, E-50 and E-75 development, Pre-war and early war British tank building,

Available for request (others' articles):

:ussr:
Shashmurin's career
BT-7M/A-8 trials
Voroshilovets tractor trials
T-55 underwater driving equipment
T-26-6 (SU-26) NEW

:911:
Light Tank T37
Light Tank T41

:godwin:
Oerlikon and Solothurn anti-tank rifles
Evolution of German tank observation devices

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Cessna posted:

Let me know if I can help with boring details about how crappy their uniforms were.

If you want to roll up your effort posts into an article and send it to Warspot, they'll pay you (in American dollars even, not World of Tanks gold).

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Arban posted:

Sounds a bit like what Putin is currently doing

Reminder of the one and only rule: this is not a thread for current events.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

White Coke posted:

I read an argument that if France hadn’t fallen so quickly and it had instead taken months or a few years to beat them then Britain might have been more willing to surrender. I’m not that convinced since Britain was kind of open to a truce, but maybe a few years of continental bloodletting would have worn them out in a way that being forced off the continent didn’t. Wether Germany comes out ahead and in any condition to take on the USSR is purely speculative, but weren’t the Soviets in the middle of re-arming and re-organizing when Barbarossa happened?

The army was being expanded and rearmed in 1941, a few years later Hitler would have faced a very different Red Army, particularly one with a lot more competent enlisted force. In 1941 the ratio of officers, NCOs, and even senior conscripts to first year conscripts was at an all time low.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

White Coke posted:

Weren’t they developing/distributing a bunch of new equipment like a semiautomatic rifle and an improved T-34?

Yes, SVT production was underway (but a lot of kinks needed to be worked out still), PPSh production was ramping up, the ageing Maxim, DT and DP were going to be replaced by superior belt fed machine guns, the KV-1 was being phased out in favour of the KV-3 in 1941 and then the KV-4 or KV-5 in 1942 (whichever would win in trials), the T-34 was going to be replaced with the T-34M, the T-26 was finally going to be replaced with the T-50, the ancient T-37A and T-38 would be replaced with the T-40.

When the war started pretty much everything had to be rolled back. Rifle production went back to bolt actions, the KV-3 and T-34M died even though production of components had already started (at least some T-34M parts were worked into T-34 production), the T-50 turned out to be too expensive to build so a new light tank had to be cobbled together out of the T-40, etc.

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Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

White Coke posted:

What were the machine gun models they were working on? Were they making a universal machine gun like the Germans?

Not quite: the DS-39/DT-39 were still separate infantry/tank variants, but the DS-39 was a great improvement over the Maxim.

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