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Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Nebakenezzer posted:

No! While the Sunderlands flew post war, the Shackletons also had a kitchen.

The reason I asked this (old thread) is that you were talking about the Short Sunderlands, and then you mentioned the Short Shackletons, but I thought the Shackletons were made by Avro, and I didn't want you to get incredibly politely lynched by any Canadian Avro tragics.

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Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Nebakenezzer posted:

battleships: enormous, super expensive both to build and maintain, giant guns of terrible destructive power, very heavily armored. The battleship exists to fight other battleships - and exists as a trump card. This gets almost old school "line of battle ship" type thinking, since the equity of battleship firepower in one fleet has to be matched or beat by the other if you just shout 'get 'em' at the enemy fleet.

Have improvements in missile technology basically made battleships and their insane guns obsolete now?

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

FuturePastNow posted:

Modern anti-ship torpedoes, like an attack submarine carries, are also way more effective than the WWII equivalent. A WWII sub had to try to calculate its target's speed and bearing and then fire a spread of torpedoes at where the target will be, and hope one or more of them hits and punches through (not even going into the problems the US Navy had with torpedoes getting that far).

Modern torps like the US Mk 48 are obviously guided weapons, so barring the use of some sort of countermeasures they're far more likely to hit. And they really do a number on unarmored warships:



Would an armored battleship fare any better? Probably not. It might take a few more hits, but a sub has more torpedoes.

Is there a torpedo design that's supposed to explode under a ship as opposed to hitting it? Is there an advantage or disadvantage to that design?

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
It's not really a military history question, per se, but uhh, how big is the incoming SecDef Lloyd Austin?

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Raenir Salazar posted:

Gun Jesus seemed quite smitten by it though. :confused:

He's firing a later model, look at the difference in the grip. Early top, later bottom.



I always assumed the top one had a pistol grip that folded out to a human-normal position, but that's how they came.

At 0:09 of that video he says "we have an original, 2nd-pattern FG42"

Memento fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Dec 15, 2020

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Ofaloaf posted:

Did early machine gun crews, using guns like the Gatling gun and the Maxim gun, fall under the purview of artillery or infantry? iirc the French army under Napoleon III treated the mitrailleuse as an artillery piece, right?

British machine guns were originally part of the Royal Artillery but after the first year of butchery in WWI they were reorganised into their own Corps.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Trin Tragula posted:

You sure about that? They were organic assets in 1914, two per battalion in their own machine-gun section. The Machine Gun Corps was founded by abstracting the Vickers gun sections from the infantry, who got the man-portable Lewis guns instead. The smallest thing the RA had was the pom-pom gun.

Sorry, I got that confused with the Motor Machine Gun Service, which was originally Royal Artillery, and then incorporated into the newly-formed MGC.

I had a link saved to 1914-1918.net that I've managed to revive through the magic of the internet that was what I was basing this on.

https://archive.is/Ilzr

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
As an aside, I saw this on twitter not long ago

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
When was the Holocaust first referred to as such? I was just watching some Tom Lehrer and he uses the term to refer to nuclear armageddon, so I was wondering if in 1965 the word didn't have the connotations we ascribe to it now.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

ChubbyChecker posted:

Tom Lehrer is so drat good, I was watching his videos just yesterday. Wikipedia has this to say:

The term holocaust, first used in 1895 by the New York Times to describe the massacre of Armenian Christians by Ottoman Muslims,[9] comes from the Greek: ὁλόκαυστος, romanized: holókaustos; ὅλος hólos, "whole" + καυστός kaustós, "burnt offering".[f] The biblical term shoah (Hebrew: שׁוֹאָה‎), meaning "destruction", became the standard Hebrew term for the murder of the European Jews. According to Haaretz, the writer Yehuda Erez may have been the first to describe events in Germany as the shoah. Davar and later Haaretz both used the term in September 1939.[12][g] Yom HaShoah became Israel's Holocaust Remembrance Day in 1951.[14]

On 3 October 1941 the American Hebrew used the phrase "before the Holocaust", apparently to refer to the situation in France,[15] and in May 1943 the New York Times, discussing the Bermuda Conference, referred to the "hundreds of thousands of European Jews still surviving the Nazi Holocaust".[16] In 1968 the Library of Congress created a new category, "Holocaust, Jewish (1939–1945)".[17] The term was popularised in the United States by the NBC mini-series Holocaust (1978), about a fictional family of German Jews,[18] and in November that year the President's Commission on the Holocaust was established.[19] As non-Jewish groups began to include themselves as Holocaust victims, many Jews chose to use the Hebrew terms Shoah or Churban.[20][h] The Nazis used the phrase "Final Solution to the Jewish Question" (German: die Endlösung der Judenfrage).[22]


Yeah I think it's the '78 documentary that really made it the de rigueur term for the deliberate destruction of the Jews and other peoples in Europe by the nazis, and I was just wondering whether Lehrer used it as a general term for "really bad thing where basically everyone dies".

Also, Tom Lehrer is still alive, which is loving wild to me. I assumed if nothing else, either 2016 or 2020 would have got him.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
I'm couching this as a question about the American Civil War, but really I want to know about the time period more than the context of the conflict - what was coffee like back then in America? How did they make it, how did they drink it, was there a socioeconomic class attached to it? Was tea popular?

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
I really appreciate the coffee chat folks. I was watching a video on Cowboy Times cooking, and how at the chuck wagon, you'd always have biscuits (which I guess I would call scones?), a pot of beans and hot coffee, no matter what else they were cooking that day. And I thought, "I wonder what that coffee would be like?"

I loving love coffee. I'm going to have another one right now.

Neophyte posted:

There was also a brief experiment with issuing premade "essence (or extract) of coffee", a proto-Nescafe instant coffee made from coffee, sugar, and milk reduced into a tarry sludge. It was...not popular.



We used to get tubes of this when I was in the Scouts and then I would buy them to go to the field when I was in the Army Reserves, kind of like a spiritual successor to the "essence of coffee" here.



gently caress Nestle, obviously, but if I could find any of it these days I would probably buy it every now and then for the nostalgia purposes. And "Just Add Boiling Water!" was a complete red herring, this stuff is best enjoyed straight out of the tube while marching.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Cyrano4747 posted:

A lot of companies that do poo poo like run props for movies or let people shoot their poo poo for fun or whatever else have FFLs. Past a certain point all sorts of people get interested in your poo poo and it makes sense to set up a business to deal with it.

Isn't the highest rate of civilian machine gun ownership in America found in California for this exact reason?

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

zoux posted:

Oh for sure. If I had been around in 1962 I would've died of multiple bleeding stress ulcers. I remember asking my parents, who would've been seven or eight when it happened, if they were scared and they said they didn't even remember it. I was terrified of nuclear war as a kid, and I really only experienced the very tail end of the Cold War - I can't imagine coping with civil defense drills and brinksmanship.

Chamale posted:

My social studies told me that some people stopped going to work during the crisis because it seemed pointless when the world was about to end. That was so striking, it's one of the things that got me interested in history.

I was talking about this with my English Literature teacher in the mid-90s, when she was in her 50s, and she remembers being at high school in the UK and every room had a radio on with the BBC going and no one really got any work done; they were literally all just waiting for the word that the balloons had gone up.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

PittTheElder posted:

Wait what's this about Australia?

Conspiracy stuff about The Dismissal. Kerr was a member of a group that had received CIA funding but I don't think he was ever aware of that fact, it was just another conservative think tank to him.

It's an incredibly long bow to draw between "CIA installed a government" and "CIA was responsible for Whitlam getting the arse".

edit: actually it looks like the Congress for Cultural Freedom (the group Kerr belonged to) had been exposed in 1966 that they were funded by the CIA, but also it looks like Kerr joined them after that fact, when they were funded by the Ford Foundation. They just held anti-communist seminars and published magazines and stuff like that, they weren't disappearing people into black sites and toppling regimes.

Memento fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jun 28, 2021

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Hannibal Rex posted:

Do you know anything about the Germans using uranium as a substitute for tungsten in anti-tank munitions?

Speer writes a few lines about that in Inside the Third Reich. They had captured about 1200 tons of Belgian uranium ore, but I have no idea how much metallic uranium you can extract from that.

If the ore came from Shinkolobwe, it was probably on the order of 65-70% uraninite U2O, variably oxidised to U3O8, very rich by today's standards.

U3O8 is about 85% U by weight, so (.65*.85)=.5525, .5525*1200=663, 663*.7 (70% extraction efficiency in the mill is the modern standard) is around 465 tons of metal. The U2O is richer, so 465 is a lower bound, but I have no idea how efficient Nazi Germany's uranium extraction processes were. Probably <70% by a wide margin.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Randarkman posted:

IIRC there's a Forgotten Weapons video on the suppressed sten gun and people using them were discouraged from firing full-auto with them as the suppressor wouldn't work as well in full-auto and would degrade quicker. It was specifically meant for resistance fighters or commandos operating with resistance fighters, for shooting sentries and guard dogs and such.

The XM9 Beretta video is a good demonstration of this, should be timestamped here where he starts taking apart the suppressor to show the internals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQPsf_wDbmU&t=480s

Quoted lifespan for the wipes is 20-25 rounds, with the shots becoming noticeably louder over that interval.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

So is that about 13 MoA?

1 MoA is one inch in a hundred yards (1/3600, 0.027%), 0.36/0.027=12.777

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

The Lone Badger posted:

I'm putting my money on Titvs Pvllo.

Was he the guy who who got called out of retirement on his villa, crushed his usurpers, purged all opposition and restored the senate and then drank himself to death less than a year later?

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Nenonen posted:

All this talk about bad tank films and no mention of Tank Girl?

Complete list of movies I have walked out of:

Tank Girl

Spawn

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

chitoryu12 posted:

The Civil War also saw tons of private weapon purchases for the hastily raised units. There’s tons of obscure revolvers and carbines on both sides, ranging from copies of more prominent designs to seriously weird and unique, with runs of a few hundred or thousand that went mostly to commercial sales and one Union regiment whose procurement guy was convinced to buy the whole first factory run.

Considering how well the first run of things turn out even to this day, did this procurement decision end up biting anyone in the arse?

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Beefeater1980 posted:

What amount of money is RM 5,000 in this context? I can only think “Ringgit” which doesn’t make sense for what’s presumably a conversation taking place in the UK.

Reichsmarks?

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Marshal Prolapse posted:

Hahahah I thought I was the only one who remembered that, a read a few issues, it was pretty funny. Also the other half of the issue had the US and North Koreans fighting dinosaurs.

Speaking of Korean War veterans fighting dinosaurs and also Garth Ennis



Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Foxtrot_13 posted:

Putting all the horrible poo poo done on the shoulders of the SS is a key part of the Clean Wehrmacht myth. Plenty of the bad poo poo, especially on the Eastern Front, was done by the Wehrmacht and even the Luftwaffe.


Near the end or just after the war a British General was taking a Luftwaffe Field Marshal around one of the concentration camps to show him it was not a propaganda myth. The Field Marshal already knew about it and just shrugged his shoulders and said something along the lines of “they were only Jews, I don’t see why you are angry about this”. The British General took the Field Marshall’s baton and beat him with it so hard that the baton broke.
The following day the General went to Montgomery to resign and face the consequences and all monty did was protect his head and joke about the General liking to beat Field Marshalls.

The broken baton was retrieved and presented to the General as a momento. Later the General’s widow sold it but only after the Field Marshall’s family tried to block it and wanted it back.


Found the details. It was Brigadier Derek Mills-Roberts, Field Marshal Milch and the camp was Breslin.

Memento, but it's a good story, so you're cool.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
Assuming we lived in a timeline where physics worked differently and both Nazi German and Imperial Japan achieved their stated goals (I'm not a hundred percent sure what they were, but I assume "complete domination of your hemisphere and subjugation/extermination of the other peoples there"), would they have eventually fought? My limited understanding is that racial purity was important to both of them and that having to "share" the world with a people who were the absolute Other was counter to that.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
Yeah hence "a timeline where physics worked differently" in my question. I realise how insanely different things would have had to be for that to happen, just spit-balling.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
I assumed for the longest time that that image was either photoshopped or that it was some odd way of transporting a hundred submachine guns.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Xiahou Dun posted:

From that wiki entry :

For some reason the radio getting messed up is the bit that gets me. Once I actually engage the parts of my brain that think about physics it makes perfect sense, but until that point my dumb lizard-brain thinks somehow there are so many bullets that the radio-waves can't get through or something.

Was the instrument panel that really nice light blue that Soviet aircraft used a lot?

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
Push them over the border and make them a refugee crisis for the opposition, right?

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Raenir Salazar posted:

A sword is just a spear with a shorter grip and a longer point.

Sword: little handle, big blade, noble on handle end, peasant on blade end.

Spear: exact opposite in every way.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
Any electric powered machine gun has a variable rate of fire. The M134 Minigun, and the GAU-8 Avenger, for examples.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Elissimpark posted:

Wondering whether a dial or slider would be more appropriate for setting the rate.

On the OH-6 helicopter, which doesn't have door gunners, the pilot controls the rate of fire with the trigger on the cyclic, by pressing it harder for more dakka



Edited from here: https://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-9-1005-298-12.pdf (edit is taking the text from one page and image it refers to which is a few pages later)

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
Was it a slouch hat?



Folded left hand brim with the service badge pinning it into place, and then you have your Corps or Regiment badge on the front. Standard dress uniform item for every member of the Australian Army. The seven bands of the trim thingy I can't remember the name of represent the six states and then one for the territories of Australia.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
I always thought calling someone a gentleman and a scholar was pointing out how rarely one is also the other.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Uncle Enzo posted:

No you can still resist but it's just suicide at that point. You're within your rights to pull out a pistol and shoot at the destroyer offering rescue.

Likewise, while I'm pretty sure the laws of the sea (don't ask which ones lol) clearly state you have to pick up survivors, that's been violated all over the place many many times either passing them by or machine gunning. If your ship is sunk you're pretty lucky to get offered rescue at all by anyone, period.

In this same vein, that ice-strengthened cruiser that the Venezuelan patrol boat rammed, were they obliged to hang around and pick up the crew who had just embarked in lifeboats? Considering their nature as a civilian tourism ship, I can't imagine they had any significant arms on board, and considering the belligerence of the Venezuelans at the time, wouldn't picking them up be basically inviting a hostile, armed force onto your ship to be hijacked?

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
A friend of mine gets that sometimes, and then realises what she's doing and apologises. If I ever need to track migratory movements in Early Dynastic Period Egypt using midden remnants and potsherds, however, I will absolutely defer to her wisdom.

She got her PhD Egyptology, then wrote a book about it, then went back to university to teach the next generation of Egyptologists. I told her it kinda sounds like a pyramid scheme.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Ensign Expendable posted:

Soviet models are also available.



I'm off to represent the entire Red Army at the buffet, you girls enjoy yourselves.

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Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

That took me a second but it's a solid reference

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