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JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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How anyone could make an adept in this game, especially a bare-handed one, without naming him "Phooey" is beyond me.

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JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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The fact that you didn't name the main character in this LP 'Phooey' is a bloody shame. :)

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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Hwurmp posted:

you shouldn't compare present-day reality to cyberpunk fiction as a rule

it's too depressing

because it's too similar

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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girl dick energy posted:

Yes, exactly. That's the :smith: joke.

I genuinely wasn't sure, because I know sod all about the setting apart from what I've learned in these LPs. Apologies for killing the joke, Hwurmp.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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One would think that a melee-range character would be inherently more accurate than a ranged one.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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Having followed all of these LPs, I've realised that Returns' biggest flaw was simply 'not being Dragonfall or Hong Kong'. It's one of those games that's good but then looks worse because the sequels surpass it. That's genuinely a good thing in many ways - game series should get better with more practice - but a little perspective would be nice too.

bob dobbs is dead posted:

he is also an excellent example of my old observation that learning the humanities doesnt change your lovely behavior for fuckall. peter thiel has more philosophical and ethical training than 99.9% of all people (philosophy undergrad, law degree)! did it make him any more ethical?

Some people are just lovely people inherently, and combined with societies that laud greedy, self-interested behaviour we end up with people like that. That's bad enough, but then we are told that these are people to be admired and respected because they have dedicated their lives to accruing far more wealth than they could ever need off the backs of others. It's as insulting as having someone cut off my hand, punch me in the groin with it and then tell me that I should applaud them for such a clean cut and accurate punch.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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StillFullyTerrible posted:

a lot of these problems are feature creep caused by needing to justify your continued employment by adding new bells and whistles to an already serviceable product
simply continuing to sell the same product, occasionally updated to work with newer systems, would require a much smaller staff
so UIs are hosed with, features nobody wants are added, and project managers tell their bosses "look we got out a new version for the next financial quarter"
that's capitalism!

Part of me can't blame anyone for trying to maintain their paycheck without which they would literally die, but it is definitely an indictment of private ownership of production and profit seeking. Certainly can't just relax a bit until something else is needed, we have to keep making more bigger numbers for parasitic shareholders so that we can eat next week!

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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MagusofStars posted:

Part of the reason it hasn't seen much use yet is that the reliability of the F-35 is still way below par - the plane itself may run fine when it's running, but the Pentagon's own reliability numbers for the F-35 aren't what they need to be for it to achieve the intended goal of finally phasing out the decades-old A-10's and F-18's.

I had the privilege of being in an F18E flying over the Labrador Sea near Greenland. It is the only experience of my life that I would qualify as 'awesome' and the reason why I don't like it when people use that word for commonplace things. It was literally an experience so incredible that it filled me with a breathless awe that I am incapable of describing in words.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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My objection to people spending a small fortune on 'beauty' is that it's classist, decadent, and that society is way too shallow. Looking good rather than being good is something we badly need to get the gently caress over as a species.

GhostStalker posted:

I pay $8 for a basic haircut (without getting my hair washed afterwards, since I just head home and shower) in Chinatown, plus a $2 tip. Have never considered paying more than $10 for one, though I know my cousin does because his hair is a lot more elaborate. I really don’t understand people who spend that much more for them, but then again, all of my haircuts have been in Chinatown.

I've greatly reduced how often I get my haircut in the last few years. In part it's due to the pandemic and not wanting to be that close to someone, but it's also due to the fact that I've started wearing my hair longer as I get older and almost everyone cuts it too short. I think that I've had my hair cut 5 times in the last two years and four of those were rubbish because they sheared me like a sheep; one was just right. One of the four bad ones though was by my barber who trimmed me 10 years ago when I wore my hair much shorter, so I'll give that a pass.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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GhostStalker posted:

I get the rationale, but drat if that doesn’t strike me as way too much to pay for a basic haircut without anything special or even washing my hair afterwards.

I know Chinatown has a reputation for being cheap, and I remember reading an article in the New York Times (or another broadsheet) about people going specifically to Chinatown for the cheap haircuts because that’s what they grew up on, which is the case for me as well. It’s where my grandfather took me to get my hair cut on one of his daily trips to Manhattan Chinatown when I was growing up, and when that particular barber shop closed down soon after he passed, I found other ones in Chinatowns closer to me, first in Flushing when I lived in Queens, and now in Sunset Park Brooklyn Chinatown due to living on Staten Island.

Even now walking through Manhattan Chinatown on the way to the subway from work and passing by Chinese haircut places, an advertised men’s basic haircut is still $8 or so.

New York is so ungodly expensive I don't know how anyone there is able to eat much less have a hair cut, but that's another story. The only big city that I have ever been in that was even remotely what I would call 'affordable' was Montréal, and that's largely due to the fact that the city is full of huge universities and if the prices get too high the hundreds of thousands of students would bloody riot.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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Between the very good writing in these games and the way in which Kanfy presents them, the overaching intrigue and the little stories are very compelling. I don't normally pay much attention to story in games, but these are an exception. I genuinely give a poo poo as to what happens next, and I've only felt that way about a few truly exemplary narrative games such as Let Us Cling Together and Torment.

Also, I genuinly thought that 'enhanced sensory experiences' meant (spoiler from the previous game, in case some haven't played it/read the LP) those chips that Kim was hooked on in Dragonfall. I didn't even think of chemicals until someone said something, but then again I haven't taken a psychotropic in my life so that's not too surprising.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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See also Planescape: Torment. I'm very fond of that game, but it is verbose.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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This happens in a lot of games, including so many classic RPGs, and it's always sad. I like characters that can do everything fairly well, and it's rarely a good choice to do so. Though I'm not very keen on the game, I will say that WoW has done a pretty good job with druids, but that's about the only example that I can think of.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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In later D&D, by which I mean 3e and beyond, I wanted to play a bard because I liked how they could do a bit of everything. Didn't work out that way, though.

Slaan posted:

It took several expansions to make them playable though. Druids were just plain bad at release

I didn't start playing one end-game until some years in, so that may be it. Also, the player has to get a lot of gear that's specifically tailored towards 1 of the 3/4 major roles that a character can play, so it's not a simple matter of just pressing buttons.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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bewilderment posted:

Although in 5e they really are close to being the best at everything, thanks to their class feature of nabbing spells from other classes and adding them to their list while also being just as good at non-combat as rogues.

In the tabletop space in general though there has been some attempts at trying to make hybrids work better in similar games. The most successful approach has been the 'class feat' model where you get a signature ability of another class/type, potentially at a slightly weaker level but otherwise keep your normal progression. For example, being able to go into a berserker rage once per day (instead of as often as a regular one), but otherwise still being a full ranger or whatever.

I thought about 5e right after I posted. Lore bards are apparently quite wonderful.

kw0134 posted:

What WoW eventually figured out, is that in practice everyone specializes. No one goes from straight damage dealer to tank to healer while in the heat of things, so letting a particular class do all those things doesn't obsolete other classes if you effectively need to pour all your prepping/gearing into doing that one thing. So it's not longer a "hybrid" that swaps roles in combat, but one that could in theory swap around to help the group stay flexible between encounters.

habeasdorkus posted:

By Burning Crusade both Paladins and Druids could tank or heal (depending on their kit and spec) and Druids could kind of act as damage dealers. But as kw said, it's not something you could switch between during a fight. Between fights, sure, you could tank one boss and then switch into healing gear to be a secondary healer for the next one.

These are good points. If a healer druid could suddenly switch into tank mode mid-fight after the original tank went down and be just a good a tank as healer, that would be too powerful and make other classes obsolete or pointless. I played a healer/tank druid during the 'dual-spec' days of Wrath of the Lich King, and I was always one or the other on any given raid night, rarely both and never both in the same attempt at a boss. I've never cared for pure DPS classes except for solo open-world play where it's fun and dynamic. Being a DPS class in a raid is pressing the same few buttons ad infinitum for hours and very dull, in my opinion.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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I'm dubious as to whether the Switch's controls lend themselves to this sort of game.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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Dareon posted:

No, no, playing EVE is like working an office job. Raiding in WoW is like working at an overloading nuclear power plant except the meltdown is from your own party members.

EVE is a game where, the moment I heard of just the concept, I realised that it was awful.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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girl dick energy posted:

EVE, it's a quarantine zone for people who religiously play games like EVE.

I am so stealing this.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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Poil posted:

Or a very work of art.

A work of art and a work of art.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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I'm sad that there's no mage in this game, PC or otherwise. They're my favourite.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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I dont know posted:

All the corporate greed and government oppression. None of the cool cyberware or robodongs.

Don't forget the apocalyptic environmental decay!

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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Neoliberalism = woke, broke, under the yoke, planet up in smoke

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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I'm rather sad to say that, at the start of this update, it took me several minutes to remember the previous run that the first screenshot was referencing. Been a while.

I know that this game is very tight with money, Kanfy. I don't think that anyone would object if you topped things off a bit if it helps show off more of the game.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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TheDavies posted:

Still, it's a bit annoying that we still haven't been able to kill Clockwork, sell his organs to Tamamous, and parade his skull around like a trophy despite him showing up in scenarios twice. I can dream, though. :allears:

I cannot tell you how many oligarchs and politicians I have had that same dream about. Fits the theme of Shadowrun, surely.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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some plague rats posted:

Big Texas is such a horrible name for a boat, it really is

God pissing awful, and that's only partly due to the state of Texas having a... dubious reputation. I'm referring to both the current RL version and the in-universe one according to Ghost Stalker.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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Kobal2 posted:

Sure, but ideology (and science, even Science!(tm) ) has to account for material realities and their consequences, else it's just disingenuous wankery. We run in this world, not an ideal automated luxury space post-scarcity communism version of it.

Can't argue with this. No point in saying 'what if people weren't bastards?' when the world is run by bastards.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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KataraniSword posted:

So what you're telling me is that I can have 20 dicks and still be functional but once I get that 21st I turn into a cyberzombie.

I'm fairly sure that that's Numberwang.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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I just wanted to thank Kanfy for carrying on with this, even at a slow rate. I know that he's very burned out, but I hope to see the trilogy finished one day and then re-read them.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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There's plenty of people in the real world who look at extreme nationalism and capitalism as admirable, despite ample evidence to the contrary. Even if the masses are hosed, the people who are doing well in horrible systems are perfectly happy to maintain the status quo.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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Murgos posted:

What exactly are you arguing for here JustJeff88?

That because a fascist system has benefitted someone it’s okay for them not to be aware of the harm they’ve cause? Or that the harm they caused is given a pass because it’s the approved government philosophy?

I’m missing it.

I was basically trying to say that no-one (not literally no-one, but very few) are going to campaign for changing a system that worked well for them.

Same thing from the opposite side... look at how many bitter old fucks have fought against privileges and changes that they would have loved to have, but do so on the grounds that 'I had to suffer, so should you'. It's one thing to fight to preserve one's privileges, it's another to preserve miseries.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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idonotlikepeas posted:

Divorcing character stats from character appearance is generally a good move.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I'm also in favour of divorcing stats from race/character origin. Stat bonuses (gently caress penalties) should come from class, if that.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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It's rather vexing that money seems so scarce in this game. I know that some semblance of balance has to be preserved, but it's also fun to buy things and enjoy that content too.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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Kith posted:

blitz is immune to consequences simply by virtue of being too much of a mess for the results to stick to him

He's like Mr Burns with all of his diseases. He's so dysfunctional that all of the consequences can't get through the door all at once.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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Keldulas posted:

I do think that DMS is one of those things that merely pales in hindsight. On its own, it was a reasonable offering, albeit hampered by some jank moments. Being a solid supporting structure to build upon is still pretty good.

Thank you for saying this - it doesn't get stated enough. DMS was a very solid game and welcome for bringing a popular setting back into video games as there had not been a Shadowrun game in a very long time (correct me if I am wrong). That's why they called it Shadowrun Returns, after all. Did Dragonfall surpass it? Absolutely, as any sequel should be better than it's prequel. Did Hong Kong surpass Dragonfall? Quite possibly but, again, as it should. Granted, there are a lot of trilogies in gaming and film where the second was better than the first but the third was considered a step back, but that's another discussion.

I know that no-one else cares about this, but one area where DMS was better than the other two was that it was translated into more than just English. I have a feeling that it wasn't budgetarily feasible to translate the last two due to the much greater amount of dialogue and commensurate cost. I think that Returns was translated into about half a dozen other languages. I'm not sure if Returns had voicing or just text, but I do know that while text translation is not cheap getting new voice actors for other languages is ruinously expensive. Nevertheless, as someone whose preferred gaming language is not English I have a certain empathy for non-Anglophones and wish that these great games could be available to German speakers, Portuguese speakers etc. I'm sure that there are some fan translations kicking around.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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GhostStalker posted:

I don’t remember any voice acting in DMS or any of these Shadowrun games. But yeah, it would make sense that Dragonfall be translated into German, what with it taking place there and Germany being the second most popular market for Shadowrun for whatever reason.

DMS was a bit jank and railroad-y, and seemed more like a succession of set pieces that aimed to show those unfamiliar with the series what the setting was and a ton of Easter eggs for those (like me) who were familiar with the lore, but yeah, it was a solid game that served as a great (re)introduction to the series, which was needed because the previous Shadowrun games were the SNES one referenced in DMS with Armitage, and then the lovely cash in arena shooter that was made for the Xbox that didn’t even touch most of the lore besides making a fantasy shooter with (limited) magic and the different metavariants as options that went over with the community incredibly badly.

But as you say, sequels should improve on the original, and Dragonfall was definitely an improvement over DMS, and HK a greater one over that. It’s only really in hindsight after playing Dragonfall that you see what parts of DMS were lacking and that you can excuse for basically being a reintroduction of the series.

I don't think that any of the games had voicing either - they don't need it and I think that my GOG copy is erroneously labelled. According to Steam, their version is in English, French, Italian, German, Russian & Spanish. The GOG version has all of those plus what I think is simplified modern Chinese. If anyone can read these characters and I'm wrong, please tell me: 中文(简体)

I don't know quite why, but the Shadowrun games reminded me somehow of the Sims. I was a huge fan of the Sims 1, which was incredibly in its own time but quite flawed. Sims 2 was a huge upgrade to Sims 1 while Sims 3 was better than Sims 2, but not as much of a leap forward as from 1 to 2. Sims 3's pricing model could, to quote a southerner I once heard, gag a maggot, but it was a very good game. Sims 4 is such a rubbish fire (also with a vomit-inducing DLC model) that perhaps it's best that they stopped at a trilogy. I am being slightly humorously hyperbolic here, but there is a certain similarity in that I don't think that they could top

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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DMSs greatest drawback is having two great sequels. It’s like oldest brother who is pretty great, but whose younger siblings are even more talented.

MJ12 posted:

Yes, those characters mean Chinese (Simplified).

謝謝

I recognised the Chinese characters for Chinese, but not the trailing characters. It had to be either ‘simplified’ or ‘traditional’, given the context, and the former made more sense given the year and what would make the most sense in a light, entertaining video game.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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GhostStalker posted:

The ones you just used there are traditional characters. Basically, the only places that still use traditional characters are Taiwan and the overseas Chinese communities who were long settled before the PRC introduced the Simplified character set in the 50s, plus Hong Kong.

Fascinating. I have no knowledge of the Chinese language and always wondered about who uses which system where and when. I've often quipped that one knows that a language is very complicated when native speakers of it decide that it needs to be simplified.

Not nearly on the same level of complexity, but in modern French they are proposing to eliminate the ^ (circonflex) symbol in cases where it doesn't change the pronunciation. This symbol can show up on any vowel, and hundreds of years ago it was vital for indicating which vowel sound to use. These days, though, it affects pronunciation in at best 30% of cases and sometimes only if one is Canadian.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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Xander77 posted:

I have 10,000 hours of TF2 under my belt (most of it idling) and would never recommend it in its current state. Other people hate play management games etc for thousands of hours.

The LP addendum is just weirdly poorly thought out? If people value the game for poo poo that I don't care about and don't like the things that interest me, it's a really obvious "this game is not for me" flag.

If you are referring to Team Fortress 2, I remember when that was actually a game the people played that was fun. I miss that.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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Mindopali posted:

I felt that.
Although, I think it's not necessarily the same case as other people discussed. Being online, TF2 changes with time. Many LP's are about solo games that are the same since the start, and the masochists just go for it despite these games being just as bad.
I got mere 700 hours into TF2, and while I play a lot less now, most of these 700 were a pure joy. Sometime between 2010 and 2012 its was pretty much my only game.

Mine was 2008 and I had tapered off by 2012, but that was largely due to starting a new job that demanded a lot of hours. My divorce from TF2 had far more to do with the negative evolution of the game than boredom, burn-out, finding another game or people being dicks (common problem in online games).

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JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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of SA-Mart forever

Mindopali posted:

The death of community servers did it for me. Once Valve cut the valve (heh) that put players on all servers left and right to only put them on official servers, the whole modding community - that hodgepodge of weird servers but great creativity (team deathmatch on a mario kart map anyone?) - just left. It's still a game with great mechanics, and I think they did some stuff to curb bots as I encountered a lot less of them lately, but it's not the same anymore. In my mind, TF2 during that period goes along with gmod and all the gmod videos that were put on youtube, I loved seeing the weird stuff people would think up, or wait up the next meet the... video, and it's just a great memory.

I wish Valve would put more aftercare in that game, but still, for a multiplayer shooting game, going fifteen years strong and still having so many players is a feat in itself, I suppose it's normal that games have their high point and then slowly fade. I'll keep the good times in memory.

When it gets down to it, the business model changed. I got the game when it was part of the Orange Box with a bunch of other regular games for £20 or howevermuch, but there's a lot more to be made in selling cosmetics that the player never sees because it's a first-person shooter.

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