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KurdtLives posted:They just added like the two main antagonists in Season 1. In the beginning of both seasons he's not actively Punishing but gets dragged back in but in Season 2 there is no new people involved in his family's death. yeah and I think notably the two main antagonists introduced in Season 1 serve to make the story of what happened to his family both much more personal for Frank and also much more incisively critical of institutional evil than it would initially seem in DD S2, which I think makes the whole thing more effective, not less 2 is great because it gives a directionless Frank an inroad to Punishing as a greater calling beyond aimless murder or his personal revenge quest, and does so in a way that's directed in a way that doesn't feel weird/inauthentic. Daughter surrogate as the plot device to both pull him in and also to explore what kind of father Frank was or wasn't, punishing his way up the food chain to ultimately get justice for people being crushed under insurmountable institutional corruption instead of directionless violence at vague Thugs and Criminals that could easily swing weird and play to the worst parts of the audience. Still embracing the idea that Frank is motivated in doing all this ultimately not by altruism but because he's a psycho with a pathological need who's looking for an excuse to do violence, and that he was basically that way even before what happened to his family gave him an excuse. I thought the show threaded that needle near perfectly of not pulling punches with the character without getting into the weeds with the thin blue line types it's also why i think the last scene of S2 sucked so bad, it felt really out of place with this Frank's arc to that point and how deft the show had been with handling him to suddenly have him setting up an abandoned warehouse meet with some generic Seagal movie "you got the goods/you got the stuff" guys and blasting them with dual machine guns while screaming. pretty funny though
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Apr 15, 2025 00:59
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The original way Frank was introduced in the graveyard was just perfect. A very unlucky dude with a specific set of skills who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The cops want to cover up their own blunder rather than serve justice to him, so he goes out and gets his own. Also he has a bullet in his brain that messed up his fight or flight response so it is on 100% of the time. Every time they added something more to it than that, it got shittier. And it sucks that they totally abandoned the flight or fight part of the character. I can't even remember Punisher S2 anymore except Frank had to go find some pedo's "filming studio" and all he does is burn it down and maybe punch the guy in the face? Some weakass poo poo from the same guy who dealt with the pawn shop guy in Daredevil. I'm not one of those people who thinks Punisher is a hero and always cheering him on to murder his way through any situation, but that was painfully out of character for him.
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Apr 15, 2025 01:48
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Jerusalem posted:Still not as bad as the movie version where it's like the Castle Family Reunion of like 60 beloved parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, kids, grandkids etc and a loving army comes in like they're invading a foreign country. counterfeitsaint posted:I can't even remember Punisher S2 anymore except Frank had to go find some pedo's "filming studio" and all he does is burn it down and maybe punch the guy in the face? Some weakass poo poo from the same guy who dealt with the pawn shop guy in Daredevil. I'm not one of those people who thinks Punisher is a hero and always cheering him on to murder his way through any situation, but that was painfully out of character for him.
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Apr 15, 2025 06:22
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https://youtu.be/UWROBiX1eSc
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Apr 15, 2025 11:02
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S2, on a pacing level, was kind of dire. I just forgot to keep watching after the police station confrontation. S1 was pretty engaging tho. Hearing him give his hosed up yelling in this season of DD was downright nostalgiac.
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Apr 15, 2025 11:35
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Mandrel posted:it's also why i think the last scene of S2 sucked so bad, it felt really out of place with this Frank's arc to that point and how deft the show had been with handling him to suddenly have him setting up an abandoned warehouse meet with some generic Seagal movie "you got the goods/you got the stuff" guys and blasting them with dual machine guns while screaming. pretty funny though Yeah I agree 100%. I had no real interest in The Punisher but ended up loving Frank because of how the writing and Bernthal portrayed him, very deftly as you said. Then that final scene was like the writers saying "ALRIGHT HELL YEAH TIME TO PUNISH BABYYYYY". Contrasted with the final scene of S1 it's incredibly lovely and a bummer.
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Apr 15, 2025 12:45
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This is me completely free associating, but I wonder if the "Born Again" theme of this season isn't just a Christian allusion, but also a very round about nod to the dying/rising nature of some horned gods in antiquity. Matt always fidgeting with the broken horn from his mask put that in my head.
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Apr 15, 2025 23:39
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I think that's a long shot, but you're probably onto something with the title. "Born again" typically goes with US Evangelicals, not Catholicism. It's most likely just a dumb nod to Daredevil getting his groove back.
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Apr 16, 2025 00:58
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moths posted:I think that's a long shot, but you're probably onto something with the title. It is a big swing, but DD's little horns ping my radar as Horns of Alexander. Dionysus/Zagreus is also described as being similarly horned. It's a 'thing'. edit: holy crap, I was not aware of Horns of Moses. That is even more apt: DDs horns are his crown. That puts a lot of context into Hellboy, too... Marsupial Ape fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Apr 16, 2025 |
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Apr 16, 2025 01:26
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That’s the Renaissance artist’s explanation to their patrons. When Michelangelo puts horns on Moses, he knows that’s a mistranslation. Moses’s face is his patrons face, and he’s calling his patron a cuckold.
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Apr 16, 2025 01:52
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Yes, but the mistranslation and its connotations got rolled into the idea and they kept plowing forward with trope. Not unlike marginalia getting added into the main body of a text during a copying. The organic growth of ideas and images like that fascinates me.
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Apr 16, 2025 01:56
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I thought it died off after Michelangelo, because of Michelangelo. But it’s been a very very long time since I did any art history
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Apr 16, 2025 01:59
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Finale is up. Finally, some good loving Punishing
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Apr 16, 2025 02:25
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Well that one moment was one of the most violent things I’ve ever seen in a piece of live action comic book media.
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Apr 16, 2025 02:58
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MokBa posted:Well that one moment was one of the most violent things I’ve ever seen in a piece of live action comic book media. lol yeah I think that's the most violent death I've ever seen That was a really good episode.
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Apr 16, 2025 03:01
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MokBa posted:Well that one moment was one of the most violent things I’ve ever seen in a piece of live action comic book media. Yeah, holy loving poo poo Anyway, I thought that was a good episode! The season itself was a mess, but I liked that episode!
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Apr 16, 2025 03:02
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MokBa posted:Well that one moment was one of the most violent things I’ve ever seen in a piece of live action comic book media. inspired by the mountain.
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Apr 16, 2025 03:03
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Hyperviolence aside, this was a great finale. Kind of hilarious how little regard the new showrunners have for the original plan. Which, judging the season as a whole, I can’t blame them. Their episodes were by far the best even if I did enjoy the entire ride. I think they did a remarkable job picking up the pieces and setting up next season without changing the overall plot. But they basically immediately went and turned Matt’s girlfriend into an antagonist (because the character was not interesting and now maybe she will be!) and his law partner is just like a small annoyance. Then they bring Karen back and it’s like “why did we waste any time at all with those losers.” My only minor complaints about the finale are 1) I think we got too much time on Frank, considering how little he played into the season beforehand. Obviously I loved watching him murder a bunch of Punisher fanboys, and I love Bernthal always, but I think we needed a little more of him throughout the season to justify that much time in the finale. 2) It felt like it lacked a proper climax, with things just kind of ending in a dark place with no resolve whatsoever. Maybe I’m just mad that I have to wait forever to see what happens next. And 3) the Radiohead montage at the end where various characters pose dramatically and look at the camera was extremely corny. Next season is definitely gonna kick some serious rear end. I know the MCU as a whole is a giant mess but I hope they tie this story into other shows and movies somehow. It’s a little hard to watch this and not think “Hey, literally any superhero from the movies could easily stop this with minimal effort.” Kingpin was more believable in the MCU when he was flying under the radar, so I legit would like to see these events from the perspective of the larger MCU!
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Apr 16, 2025 03:19
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Solid finale even if it felt like things were going really fast. Really looking forward to S2 flowing more in line with what the new showrunners intended.
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Apr 16, 2025 03:27
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I'm really pumped to see Berenthal spear some fuckers in Nolan's The Odyssey.
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Apr 16, 2025 03:34
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So can we assume next season will have Ms. Marvel, White Tigress, and maybe She Hulk based on the build an army line? I liked the season a lot, and honestly I think the bank episode may have been my favorite. It was fun!
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Apr 16, 2025 03:40
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thank you, anthony
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Apr 16, 2025 03:40
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loving awesome. Like did not dissapoint. Watching Matt and Frank merk all those cops like nothing was great. And lol Matt telling Frank not to kill that one cop, and then the cops just blowing up the apartment so yea, i guess he survived long enough to get blown up by his buddies? Thing is, Fisk putting NYC under a 8pm curfew, yea, thats gonna go well, plus the cops just merking everyone they want. But i guess thats what he wants? The city to revolt against him so he can justify being more and more brutal. I noticed in the meeting there were a few cops there, besides the lady detective we saw a few times. Though it would of been nice if he had turned around and it was Luke and Jess where there. Also lol putting frank in the cage, thats just gonna make him madder! Besides Swordsmen, was anyone else in the cages anyone notable? Most of them just looked like extras, probably rich people who didn't go along with Fisk. I really hope that the 4th Spider-Man movie deals with what he's doing during this, but that might be too dark for MCU Spider-Man. swickles posted:So can we assume next season will have Ms. Marvel, White Tigress, and maybe She Hulk based on the build an army line? Lol I'm imagingin Kamala seeing all this violence and going "I was in space and saw an entire planet destroyed but this is too much! twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Apr 16, 2025 |
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Apr 16, 2025 03:42
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 [Punisher screaming intensifies] Holy poo poo I wasn't expecting that level of gore Fisk just popped his head Good god, jaw just hanging off 
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Apr 16, 2025 03:50
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this is kind of a problem with making everything connected to the MCU, because in what world does "NYC Blackout with mass riots and cops on Fisk's payroll gunning people down for whatever reason they feel like" not get at least Spider-Man out there, like gently caress man
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Apr 16, 2025 03:51
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Orange Crush Rush posted:this is kind of a problem with making everything connected to the MCU, because in what world does "NYC Blackout with mass riots and cops on Fisk's payroll gunning people down for whatever reason they feel like" not get at least Spider-Man out there, like gently caress man That can easily be answered with That spider guy in queens, we tried to get him but he webbed DeCosta and O'Flannagan up and swung off. twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Apr 16, 2025 |
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Apr 16, 2025 03:54
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Orange Crush Rush posted:this is kind of a problem with making everything connected to the MCU, because in what world does "NYC Blackout with mass riots and cops on Fisk's payroll gunning people down for whatever reason they feel like" not get at least Spider-Man out there, like gently caress man It’s actually the perfect “summer event cross over special” premise. The next MCU show could start immediately during the blackout and we’d already have all the context and buy in we need.
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Apr 16, 2025 03:58
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Orange Crush Rush posted:this is kind of a problem with making everything connected to the MCU, because in what world does "NYC Blackout with mass riots and cops on Fisk's payroll gunning people down for whatever reason they feel like" not get at least Spider-Man out there, like gently caress man Comics readers solved this problem a long time ago by just ignoring the dissonance and then if they're lucky a writer will someday retcon in "what was Spider-Man doing at the time" (don't hold your breath), but it may be a while still before MCU audiences get there. This is also why Agents of SHIELD is canon even if it's been completely ignored and may even contradict continuity.
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Apr 16, 2025 03:59
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twistedmentat posted:That can easily be answered with That spider guy in queens, we tried to get him but he webbed DeCosta and O'Flannagan up and swung off. Yeah, you couls easily show a flashback of Spidey dealing with ground level violence and helping people from fires and poo poo. He was too busy saving people to get over to Manhattan, and thats assuming he had an idea it was Fisk behind it all.
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Apr 16, 2025 04:00
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SHOW'S GOOD. That was some gross gore I tell you that.
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Apr 16, 2025 04:02
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I had to laugh at myself for thinking that everything Fisk was doing felt depressingly like poo poo that a real life politician could get away with UNTIL he said curfew was 8pm and I immediately went,"No way New Yorkers gonna put up with that poo poo!"  Also love the contrast at the end between: Matt: Hello New York, I'd like to talk to you all about the City Without Fear Initiative and Frank: Hello Anthony, I'd like to talk to you about the breaking your loving arm off Initiative
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Apr 16, 2025 04:07
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VectorSigma posted:thank you, anthony
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Apr 16, 2025 04:07
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VectorSigma posted:thank you, anthony 
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Apr 16, 2025 04:08
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swickles posted:So can we assume next season will have Ms. Marvel, White Tigress, and maybe She Hulk based on the build an army line? What is wrong with you? No. Don’t do that.
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Apr 16, 2025 04:09
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That...was a lot of CGI blood  I am such a sucker for Everything in its Right Place.
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Apr 16, 2025 04:13
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1st AD posted:What is wrong with you? No. Don’t do that. I am not doing anything, they have explicitly laid groundwork for it!
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Apr 16, 2025 04:22
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Also, the last time there was a complete blackout in NYC, there were people who were freaking out calling 911 because they had never seen the Milky Way before and thought it was the end of the world. There’s a Dr. Strange adventure in there.
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Apr 16, 2025 04:30
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swickles posted:I am not doing anything, they have explicitly laid groundwork for it! It seems far more likely they were setting the scene for non-corrupt police (oof), journalists, lawyers and regular citizens to actually step up and refuse to let Fisk retain his control over the city - a resistance to an occupying force effectively.
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Apr 16, 2025 04:58
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Jim Ross posted:
Kingpin wins! Fatality! Orange Crush Rush posted:this is kind of a problem with making everything connected to the MCU, because in what world does "NYC Blackout with mass riots and cops on Fisk's payroll gunning people down for whatever reason they feel like" not get at least Spider-Man out there, like gently caress man Cap Sam crashes through Fisk's window going "Yo, what the gently caress?"
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Apr 16, 2025 05:02
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Is this a split season deal or when does it come back do we know?
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Apr 16, 2025 05:03
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